The Final Fantasy Tactics Autobattle Tournament thread

Gerad · #**691** 10-07-2014, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite

I am, actually!

...wait, does Haste increase the speed of slow-charging skills, too?

I don't think haste affects spell/ability CT, just unit CT. So it wouldn't make your song/dance routine go off faster. It will make your other units go more often, but they'll already be going more often from Last Song. It won't have any effect on Last Dance, though.

It seems to me that there's a critical speed value you need to hit to make your Last Song/Haste combo really worthwhile. If your other units' hasted speed is such that they'll be at something like 80-100 CT when Last Song goes off, it's mostly wasted. But: if they're at something lower, it's a significant gain, and at 0-20 CT it's enormous.

Does anybody else think that sounds right?

Destil · #**692** 10-07-2014, 05:43 PM

For AIs I think a critical issue is timing your speed such that your singer/dancer is basically done a tick right before their turn comes up, because the AI loves to switch actions and waste time spend singing/dancing. I know for the party I was working on for Ch3 I tweeked speed down a little so that my sings went off right on time (not much you can do with speed here).

Mogri · #**693** 10-07-2014, 05:46 PM

There is one thing, actually -- you can make the unit a Summoner or Calculator. May be worth considering if he consistently fails to resolve the song.

aturtledoesbite · #**694** 10-07-2014, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogri

There is one thing, actually -- you can make the unit a Summoner or Calculator. May be worth considering if he consistently fails to resolve the song.

Wait, the AI's not gonna keep singing if that's what it was doing? Welp.

I was thinking it was more like FFV bard where it kept them out of actions unless they were hit or something.

Destil · #**695** 10-07-2014, 05:58 PM

For Angel Song it's fine, you get three ticks. For something slow like nameless song not so much.

Didn't think about Calculator, but I did consider summoner just to try and get the drop on opponents by going second with my magic user. But the AI isn't smart enough to always use it so wizard it is.

Mogri · #**696** 10-07-2014, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite

Wait, the AI's not gonna keep singing if that's what it was doing? Welp.

I was thinking it was more like FFV bard where it kept them out of actions unless they were hit or something.

The AI is very hit-and-miss when it comes to actions that take more than one turn to resolve. Sometimes, it will continue charging/performing. Like so much else in this game-within-a-game, you have to hope the AI doesn't screw it up.

Summoner has a Speed of 5, meaning it syncs up perfectly with Last Song/Dance as long as the unit also moves during that turn (which the AI always does if it can, in my experience). If you want to leave nothing to chance, use a Summoner. The staggered CT compared to the other characters is likely to be a good thing anyway.

I think I've just talked myself into another team change.

Destil · #**697** 10-07-2014, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogri

I think I've just talked myself into another team change.

Hey, now, callers and Summoners are totally different things.

Destil · #**698** 10-07-2014, 06:35 PM

So, how bad of an idea is Fire4? CTR is 5 with short charge (Fire is 4 for refrence), but it could pretty easily backfire.

On the plus side: suck it reflect.

aturtledoesbite · #**699** 10-07-2014, 06:47 PM

I edited my team some.

Will we get the chance to edit after every round?

Mogri · #**700** 10-07-2014, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite

I edited my team some.

Will we get the chance to edit after every round?

You get one edit: after your first loss. You are disqualified after your second loss, so you have to make it count.

The idea is that your team might not have performed the way you wanted it to, so you get a chance to course-correct. Otherwise, no, you can't freely edit your team once the tournament begins.

(edit) I have edited and re-themed my team, which ended up being surprisingly difficult because the fourth character is a real grab-bag of skills. It's still not perfect; oh well.

aturtledoesbite · #**701** 10-07-2014, 10:56 PM

Hmm...I'm curious. Do you guys think my Knight would be better off with Two Hands or Concentrate, from the perspective of landing his breaks? I mean, I luckily don't have to deal with perfect evasion thanks to the format, but I'm not sure if two chances at a weaker hit rate would be better than one chance at a better one.

Torzelbaum · #**702** 10-07-2014, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite

Hmm...I'm curious. Do you guys think my Knight would be better off with Two Hands or Concentrate, from the perspective of landing his breaks? I mean, I luckily don't have to deal with perfect evasion thanks to the format, but I'm not sure if two chances at a weaker hit rate would be better than one chance at a better one.

In this format:
I think Two Hands will increase your damage potential more than Concentrate does. And it might be better because there isn't the capacity for a lot of evasion. Also, I think only the first hit of a double attack can be damage split. And counter-attacks will only happen after both hits resolve.

aturtledoesbite · #**703** 10-08-2014, 12:07 AM

I'm not specifically looking for damage on the Knight, though. I'm looking for breaks.

Mogri · #**704** 10-08-2014, 12:19 AM

Do you mean Two Swords? Two Hands doesn't affect Battle Skill.

Two Swords will almost certainly be better than Concentrate for Battle Skill, due to the low amount of evasion available. If you're interested in ranged breaks, though, Concentrate on a Battle Skill Archer would be fun.

aturtledoesbite · #**705** 10-08-2014, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogri

Do you mean Two Swords? Two Hands doesn't affect Battle Skill.

Two Swords will almost certainly be better than Concentrate for Battle Skill, due to the low amount of evasion available. If you're interested in ranged breaks, though, Concentrate on a Battle Skill Archer would be fun.

Yeah, Two Swords is what I meant. now to check to see if that's what i put on the team list

And I considered Battle Skill Archer for a bit. But I figured that the Two Swords possibility plus the extra PA put Knight slightly ahead in terms of hit rate, just wasn't exactly sure on the percentages involved.

Destil · #**706** 10-08-2014, 12:34 AM

Base accuracy of gear breaks are PA + WP + x%, x ranges from 55 (shield) to 30 (weapon).

Stat breaks are all PA + 50%.

Concentrate removes evasion but doesn't do anything for base accuracy.

Can you Two Swords crossbows? I don't see anything preventing it skimming the relevant BMG entries but I've never tried...

aturtledoesbite · #**707** 10-08-2014, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destil

Base accuracy of gear breaks are PA + WP + x%, x ranges from 55 (shield) to 30 (weapon).

Yeah, so Knights could get 14+X with their 7 PA and 7 WP Mythril Swords, but the closest an Archer could get is 11+X with 6 PA and 5 WP Silver Bow. Reduce that to 9+X if you used Crossbows.

And of course, the Knight and Crossbow values are better than that because they're squared.

EDIT: Okay, so. I plugged in some numbers, and here are the percentages I came up with. They all assume that the target's got 10% Evade (not all that likely in practice, especially since I think each source of evade is multiplied separately, but it's a decent average).

Code:

Shield Break (55%)
Knight:2 Sword = 85.6%
Archer:Con. Bow = 66%
Archer:2 XBow = 82.0%

Armor Break (40%)
Knight:2 Sword - 73.6%
Archer:Con. Bow - 51%
Archer:2 XBow - 68.8%

Head Break (45%)
Knight:2 Sword - 78.0%
Archer:Con. Bow - 56%
Archer:2 XBow - 73.6%

Weapon Break (30%)
Knight:2 Sword - 63.5%
Archer:Con. Bow - 41%
Archer:2 XBow - 57.9%

Stat Break (50%)
Knight:2 Sword - 76.3%
Archer:Con. Bow - 56%
Archer:2 XBow - 75.4%

(Con. is referring to Concentrate, of course.)

Torzelbaum · #**708** 10-08-2014, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destil

Can you Two Swords crossbows? I don't see anything preventing it skimming the relevant BMG entries but I've never tried...

No, you can't dual-wield crossbows. They lack the 2-swords property.

edit: In the BMF information about weapons is in appendix B.1.

That appendix will contain entries like the following for whether the weapon type is valid for Two Swords (dual-wield) or Two Hands (double grip).

Code:

YES Two Swords
NO  Two Hands

Mogri · #**709** 10-08-2014, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite

EDIT: Okay, so. I plugged in some numbers, and here are the percentages I came up with. They all assume that the target's got 10% Evade (not all that likely in practice, especially since I think each source of evade is multiplied separately, but it's a decent average).

The baseline for evasion is 5%. Ninjas have 25%. A Ninja with Abandon and a Small Mantle has 70%.

Concentrate is better than you're giving it credit for, and any purely physical team basically needs to run it somewhere. If you want the best of both worlds, put Battle Skill on a Ninja with Concentrate.

Torzelbaum · #**710** 10-08-2014, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogri

The baseline for evasion is 5%. Ninjas have 25%. A Ninja with Abandon and a Small Mantle has 70%.

Wouldn't that be 60% instead? Also, you could give that ninja Equip Shield for even more evade but that would mean losing Two Swords. Probably better to give Equip Shield to some other class.

Wait... That's wrong for a different reason - Ninjas have 30% base evasion (character evasion / C.Ev). So 70% is about right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destil

This party is so bad I had to name them all for the only thing they could do.

Team Badly in need of Ethers.

You could give your ether addicts Half of MP and MP Restore or Absorb Used MP.

Mogri · #**711** 10-08-2014, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torzelbaum

Wouldn't that be 60% instead? Also, you could give that ninja Equip Shield for even more evade but that would mean losing Two Swords. Probably better to give Equip Shield to some other class.

That is exactly what I did, in fact. I'm hoping that he uses Throw more than his basic attack, although I'm fine with either if he manages to Mash some Mages.

And yeah, I was thinking Thief for 25%.

Rebelfire · #**712** 10-08-2014, 01:55 PM

Can knives be thrown as well, or are we limited to just sword? It doesn't make much of a difference, but it would be nice if I could get it.

Mogri · #**713** 10-08-2014, 02:17 PM

You don't want it. Throw doesn't convey weapon effects (besides element, which doesn't apply to anything available here), and daggers have up to 3 WP compared to Mythril Sword's 7.

Rebelfire · #**714** 10-08-2014, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogri

You don't want it.

ok fair enough the joke is that i really do

Alright team contribution time then:

Code:

Rouge the Bat
Female Ninja
70 BR, 50 FA
Fight for life

Throw-(Swords)
Jump
Damage Split
Maintenance
Ignore Terrain

Blind Knife
Mage Masher
Red Hood
Chain Vest
Diamond Armlet

~

Knuckles the Echidna
Male Monk
70 BR 50 FA
Fight for life

Punch Arts (Chakra, Earth Slash)
Time Magic- (Haste)
Dragon Spirit
Equip Armor
Fly

Iron Helm
Chainmail
Diamond Armlet

~

Amy the Hedgehog
Female Thief
70 BR 50 FA
Run like rabbit

Steal-(Weapon, Heart)
Geomancy-(All available)
Sunken State
Equip Axes
Teleport

Battle Axe
Red Hood
Chain Vest
Diamond Armlet

~

Cream the Rabbit
Female Priest
70 BR 50 FA
Run like rabbit

White Magic-(Cure, Protect, Raise)
Battle Skill-(All)
Absorb Used MP
Equip Shields
Move-MP Up

White Staff
Bronze Shield
Red Hood
Silk Robe
Diamond Armlet

gotta go fast

Mogri · #**715** 10-08-2014, 07:06 PM

Alas, Equip Rod isn't in this game. You'd need a mage with Two Swords to dual-equip Thunder Rods.

Equip Armor also allows you to equip helmets, so you may want to slap one on Knuckles.

(N.B.: Ignore Terrain is WotL for Any Ground, and Vanish is WotL for Sunken State.)

Destil · #**716** 10-08-2014, 07:07 PM

Also steal heart is almost always worth taking if you've got Steal unless you have a specific reason not to. It's generally around a 50% chance to charm, and that's a very strong effect.

Rebelfire · #**717** 10-08-2014, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogri

Alas, Equip Rod isn't in this game. You'd need a mage with Two Swords to dual-equip Thunder Rods.

Equip Armor also allows you to equip helmets, so you may want to slap one on Knuckles.

(N.B.: Ignore Terrain is WotL for Any Ground, and Vanish is WotL for Sunken State.)

I could have sworn that equip rods was a thing. oops

also i thought that you couldn't put hats on monks but again, probably mis-remembered

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destil

Also steal heart is almost always worth taking if you've got Steal unless you have a specific reason not to.

yes i was trying to be silly, hence the attempt at two rods jumping ninja

PrivateJoker · #**718** 10-08-2014, 08:01 PM

you can't put hats on monks, but you have equip armor, which includes helmets.

Solitayre · #**719** 10-08-2014, 10:29 PM

So since Mogri hates dancers I might just have to reconfigure my team.

What stat influences Steal Heart? Is that magic, PA, or just static?

aturtledoesbite · #**720** 10-08-2014, 10:34 PM

Exactly MA+50%