HSUP B TCELES - Let's Play FF1! Again!

Violet · #**751** 08-22-2010, 03:37 PM

I leveled up enough to beat Omega and Shinryu. In the process I realized that the biggest problem with the new dungeons isn't their mediocrity, it's that you can either go in with low levels to have challenging random encounters and no hope against the bosses, or grind for a while in order to have pointlessly easy encounters and winnable boss battles. Either way you feel like you've wasted your time. Which I guess still makes them less annoying than the new dungeons in FF6 Advance.

McClain · #**752** 08-22-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanagi

Which I guess still makes them less annoying than the new dungeons in FF6 Advance.

This makes me very sad, because FF6 is the MOST easily breakable game in the series, I think, and I would love something worthy of my little Gods to do post-game.

(see also: Chrono Trigger DS)

BlitzBlast · #**753** 08-22-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McClain142

This makes me very sad, because FF6 is the MOST easily breakable game in the series, I think, and I would love something worthy of my little Gods to do post-game.

(see also: Chrono Trigger DS)

Well really, what can you do really do once you're reached that point in any RPG?

Besides fighting a superboss that can easily kill you and has way too much health. (*cough*Yiazmat*cough*Penance*cough*)

Kzinssie · #**754** 08-22-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlitzBlast

(*cough*Yiazmat*cough*Penance*cough*FF3 Iron Giant*cough*)

Fix'd.

And "you deserve to be raped by a walrus" is now my insult of choice.

So will you be doing FFII as well? Although I hate the NES version, the DoS one is one of my favorite RPGs due to the natural-feeling leveling system.

Sky Render · #**755** 08-22-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlitzBlast

Well really, what can you do really do once you're reached that point in any RPG?

Besides fighting a superboss that can easily kill you and has way too much health. (*cough*Yiazmat*cough*Penance*cough*)

Well if you've got a flexible ability system, you can have some fun. I particularly enjoy tinkering about with FF7's Materia system. Added Cut + Revive, Sneak Attack + Exit, HP Absorb + Restore, Command Counter + Manipulate...

BlitzBlast · #**756** 08-22-2010, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilfut

Fix'd.

As bad as the Iron Giant was (and trust me, I know. I was complaining about it in the FF3 thread), he's not as bad as Penance or Yiazmat.

Not even close.

Kzinssie · #**757** 08-22-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlitzBlast

As bad as the Iron Giant was (and trust me, I know. I was complaining about it in the FF3 thread), he's not as bad as Penance or Yiazmat.

Not even close.

I've never played FFXPAL or whatever game Yiazmat came from, but I have a hard time believing they're worse than the Iron Giant.

I'm sorry, but if a level/job level 99 party with its ultimate equipment gets obliterated in 2 or 3 rounds, IT'S A HARD FUCKING BOSS FIGHT. (Onion Knight/Dragoon/Ninja/Geomancer, for the curious)

BlitzBlast · #**758** 08-22-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilfut

I've never played FFXPAL or whatever game Yiazmat came from, but I have a hard time believing they're worse than the Iron Giant.

I'm sorry, but if a level/job level 99 party with its ultimate equipment gets obliterated in 2 or 3 rounds, IT'S A HARD FUCKING BOSS FIGHT. (Onion Knight/Dragoon/Ninja/Geomancer, for the curious)

Yiazmat is in FF XII.

Please look at this picture.

See those little dots?

EACH OF THOSE IS ONE MILLION HIT POINTS.

Kzinssie · #**759** 08-22-2010, 07:45 PM

So it's an endurance test. Sit down with a can of Mountain Dew and no responsibilities, and you'll be good.

Can he kill you in 3 turns?

Octopus Prime · #**760** 08-22-2010, 07:47 PM

He can kill you after an hour of combat.

It's easy to make an arguement for how that is much worse.

McClain · #**761** 08-22-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlitzBlast

See those little dots?

EACH OF THOSE IS ONE MILLION HIT POINTS.

That. Is. Stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octopus Prime

He can kill you after an hour of combat.

It's easy to make an arguement for how that is much worse.

I much prefer the style of early RPGs where the battle would be over in no more than a dozen turns one way or another. The WORST thing is getting killed by a [HP<xxxx] supermove that a boss pulls out of its ass after a hour of combat. The last mark in FFXIII was like that, and I about broke a controller trying to beat it.

Kzinssie · #**762** 08-22-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octopus Prime

He can kill you after an hour of combat.

It's easy to make an arguement for how that is much worse.

So he's the final dungeon of FFIII encapsulated.

Alright, you win. Oh, how you win...

BlitzBlast · #**763** 08-22-2010, 08:01 PM

Here's what GameFAQs says about Yiazmat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameFAQs

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Yiazmat (YZMAT)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Health points: 50,000,000 (You heard me :P)
Weakness: Dark
Absorb: Holy

Location: The Ridorana Cataract (Colosseum)
Difficulty: Varies at what level you are.

Recommended Level: Level 90 or higher strongly recommended, but possible
at lower levels, but it'll take a bit longer to kill when your characters
are lower levels. He gets tough at the end of the battle.

Recommended Gambits
- Ally: HP under 50% - Use Curaja
- Ally: Any - Arise
- Foe: Party leader's target - Attack
- Ally: Any - Cast Esuna

How to find: Simply accept the hunt for Yiazmat from Montblanc, but the
hunt will only be posted on the board if you've completed all (or all but
one), hunts and have defeated the Hell Wyrm (see above if you haven't
fought him yet). Go to the circular "arena" (colosseum), to find him.

Battle Strategy: This battle is a lot like your battle with the Hell Wyrm.
But he might regenerate his health if you stand in the arena too long and
he's unable to target you. You don't have to do the battle in one sitting,
and at 50 million health it's going to take a while. But remember to NEVER
stand in the arena without Yiazmat being able to attack you, or else he'll
cast some positive status effects onto himself (one of which is Regen, which
heals him by around 500,000 health every few seconds). It takes around 2 or
so hours to kill him, but it may take longer or less longer, depending on
your level, your weapons, and how prepared you are with this battle.

It's possible to kill Yiazmat at level one (Sqaure Enix admitted it was
possible :P), but you should seriously be over level 80 to have an easier
time with this battle from having more health. (Even with a Bubble Belt,
if you use a Bubble Belt, the game only shows 9,999 health on your
characters, but you actually have 10K+ health, test it out on a trap, you
won't lose health unless it's a strong trap). If you want to beat Yiazmat
in less time, be at a higher level. Yiazmat is like an upgraded version
of the Hell Wyrm, but is much stronger. Each "mini bar" on his main boss
health bar represents a million health points in this battle. He can
randomly kill any one of your characters with a normal attack, he uses
Stone Breath, White Breath, Cyclone, and Death as well. His White Breath
can inflict Stop on your characters. Stone Breath is like White Breath, but
it inflicts Petrify on your characters. Cyclone hits all of your characters
with very high Wind element based damage, but you can equip windbreakers
when you see he's about to use it, and afterwards switch to Bubble Belts
to halve the damage Cyclone does.

Yiazmat's normal attacks do more than the Hell Wyrm's does. He hits at
around 500+ damage (Note: increases the lower his health is), in the
beginning of the fight. When you lower Yiazmat's health he'll use
Deathstrike, which has a high chance of automatically killing a party
character. When Yiazmat's under 5 bars he'll use Reflectga onto your
party characters. Use Dispel/Dispelga on your characters (press R1/L1 to
target your own characters). He only uses it once in the battle (he uses
it at the start of the battle if you left and re-entered). Watch out for
traps in the battle, use Libra and try to avoid them, or activate them
quickly at the start of your battle so you won't step on them when you're
characters have critical health. When you've taken off around half of
Yiazmat's health, his defence will increase, and your attacks will
constantly do 6,999 damage instead of 9,999. You can't do anything to
avoid it, so live with it and keep attacking him.

But really beware when he's under 5 bars of his health, read the above
paragraph again. But he'll also constantly combo attacks so he attacks a
character around 10 times in a row and kills them. Just revive your
character and keep attacking. Note that Yiazmat's weak to dark, so you
can use a gun with Dark Shot, Black Robes to increase the damage you do, or
use a Yagy Darkblade to attack him, but it doesn't do as much good than
you'd think, as you should be dealing constant 9,999 hits to Yiazmat when
he's above 50% of your health points.

That answer your "Is he worse than Iron Giant" question yet?

Kalir · #**764** 08-22-2010, 08:34 PM

So why do people fight these guys again?

Seriously, the biggest problem I had with Nathan in Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey is that once you grasp the strategy, you have to stick to it for a solid ten minutes, and even a slight deviation kills you. Who the hell would want to deal with a single boss, with like four strategies tops, for two abominable hours?

I refuse any answer that isn't "Stockholm Syndrome", for the record.

BlitzBlast · #**765** 08-22-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalir

Who the hell would want to deal with a single boss, with like four strategies tops, for two abominable hours?

Final Fantasy fans.

Oh, and challenge gamers. Can't forget them.

Dawnswalker · #**766** 08-22-2010, 09:21 PM

The thing is, once it gets to Yiazmat levels of excess, it's not even a good challenge. It's just a long, bloody, excruciatingly dull battle of attrition up until maybe the last minute, where you start anticipating the end of the battle... and doing something that's actually fun again.

McClain · #**767** 08-22-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnswalker

The thing is, once it gets to Yiazmat levels of excess, it's not even a good challenge. It's just a long, bloody, excruciatingly dull battle of attrition up until maybe the last minute, where you start anticipating the end of the battle... and doing something that's actually fun again.

This. I quite enjoyed the Weapons in VII, and the marks in XIII (mostly. mostly.). But when it gets to the hour(s)-long battles that you could lose on bullshit like instant death spells, or just getting pounded by a sudden surge of hits, I'm totally out.

At least with the giant dinosaurs in FFXIII you knew right away if they could kill you in one stomp.

Netbrian · #**768** 08-22-2010, 09:40 PM

Doesn't FFXI have bonus bosses that are even more absurd than Yizamat and friends? As long as we're discussing pointlessly overlong fights...

Destil · #**769** 08-22-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netbrian

Doesn't FFXI have bonus bosses that are even more absurd than Yizamat and friends? As long as we're discussing pointlessly overlong fights...

Absolute Virtue - Though last I had heard they nerfed the hell out of him, is by far the most absurd thing the series has ever thrown out there.

EDIT: Oh, hey. They 'nerfed the hell out of him' by banning everyone who exploited glitches to kill him and making him able to instant kill anyone, ever. And adding a two hour window during with both he and the boss you need to kill to make him spawn need to be beaten (I guess they despawn after that?). Because before they did that he would sometimes glitch on his own (without the exploit) and people would spend 30 hours of real life time trying to kill him. And failing.

McClain · #**770** 08-22-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destil

Absolute Virtue - Though last I had heard they nerfed the hell out of him, is by far the most absurd thing the series has ever thrown out there.

EDIT: Oh, hey. They 'nerfed the hell out of him' by banning everyone who exploited glitches to kill him and making him able to instant kill anyone, ever. And adding a two hour window during with both he and the boss you need to kill to make him spawn need to be beaten (I guess they despawn after that?). Because before they did that he would sometimes glitch on his own (without the exploit) and people would spend 30 hours of real life time trying to kill him. And failing.

I've never played an MMO before, but I kind of like the idea of a monster that you have to send waves of people against over a period of a day or more to defeat. But it sounded like this was more like a group of people spending 30 hours EACH working to kill it. And that's just crazy.

Sky Render · #**771** 08-22-2010, 10:38 PM

I shall take all of this as further proof that Squenix has completely forgotten what made past FF games fun. Not the ultra-hard optional fights, but rather the fact that you could break the difficulty with such a sickening snap that even the last boss can be put at risk of getting one-shotted.

vaterite · #**772** 08-22-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlitzBlast

That answer your "Is he worse than Iron Giant" question yet?

Sure he's wore than Iron Giant, because Iron Giant is not a gun!

BlitzBlast · #**773** 08-22-2010, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McClain142

I've never played an MMO before, but I kind of like the idea of a monster that you have to send waves of people against over a period of a day or more to defeat.

I think City of Heroes has something like that with its giant monsters.

Though it certainly doesn't take a day.

TirMcDohl · #**774** 08-22-2010, 10:50 PM

City of Heroes has around a dozen giant monsters, but, yes, they don't take hours to kill.

Torgo · #**775** 08-23-2010, 03:09 AM

So, rather then spread out the stupid over the entire game, the FFXII team just decided to concentrate it all into one boss battle most players won't bother with? I think I can live with that.

I mean, that along with the Zodiac Spear make the game a nightmare for completionists, but hey!

MetManMas · #**776** 08-23-2010, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torgo

So, rather then spread out the stupid over the entire game, the FFXII team just decided to concentrate it all into one boss battle most players won't bother with? I think I can live with that.

I mean, that along with the Zodiac Spear make the game a nightmare for completionists, but hey!

Nah, the real fun ruiner for 'em is Excalibur II in Final Fantasy IX. You have to get to a certain point in the final dungeon in under 16 hours, which means skipping all those other items and tricking the system into skipping FMVs to get one sword.

What a great goal, skipping all that other loot in one-shot dungeons to get one sword! =D

Makkara · #**777** 08-23-2010, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torgo

So, rather then spread out the stupid over the entire game, the FFXII team just decided to concentrate it all into one boss battle most players won't bother with? I think I can live with that.

Well, not quite. You have to battle a much less ridiculous but still too ridiculous boss to even get to Yiazmat. Hell Wyrm or something like that? I did actually beat it, but it was incredibly tedious, if not exactly difficult.

Also, some of the Espers are supposed to be fairly facepalm-worthy. I think one of them is at the end of a long and difficult dungeon with no save point, and likes to attack with instakill spells. I never even tried to get to that one.

Still, the game is so full of good stuff that I find it easy to forgive the optional idiocies.

Edit: I think this is my first post in this thread, so: awesome LP Brick!

Sven · #**778** 08-23-2010, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Render

I shall take all of this as further proof that Squenix has completely forgotten what made past FF games fun. Not the ultra-hard optional fights, but rather the fact that you could break the difficulty with such a sickening snap that even the last boss can be put at risk of getting one-shotted.

The original FF was the same way - a Black Belt was technically capable of one-shotting Chaos. You just can't really do it in the first *round*.

It's more a quirk of the original FF than anything else. Hell, my favourite game in the series is V, and that last boss has an even more absurd method of killing it without breaking a sweat (GP Toss).

Zef · #**779** 08-23-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlitzBlast

Yiazmat is in FF XII.

Please look at this picture.

I can't even make out what he looks like! I just see a mess of gray and a rainbow spell effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalir

So why do people fight these guys again?

Because they're there

Also, beating Yiazmat gives you a little doll in your "achievement" stable. And if you can believe it, it's not even the hardest trophy you can get for the Pirate's Den --that would be the Gabranth doll, obtained for performing every single Concurrence in the game, including Black Hole.

Which depends on you being able to do all types of Quickenings.

Which appear at random.

Under a random time limit.

Yeah.

Quote:

Seriously, the biggest problem I had with Nathan in Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey is that once you grasp the strategy, you have to stick to it for a solid ten minutes, and even a slight deviation kills you. Who the hell would want to deal with a single boss, with like four strategies tops, for two abominable hours?

"Nathan"? Who was this, the Neutral endboss?

I found that if you equipped Gibo Eyes, you could tell its weaknesses and actually use strategy instead of spamming Jihad over and over again. My best victory involved a Demon Co-Op with Vishnu's Riot Gun and my own gun attacks with the Meteor Dragoon when she entered the Wk/Gun phase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torgo

So, rather then spread out the stupid over the entire game, the FFXII team just decided to concentrate it all into one boss battle most players won't bother with? I think I can live with that.

I mean, that along with the Zodiac Spear make the game a nightmare for completionists, but hey!

The ultimate Marks and the Zodiac Spear have nothing on the Seitengrate, the ultimate weapon added to International Zodiac Job System. The (invisible) chest spawns on an airship's flight deck 1% of the time, with 1% chance that it holds the weapon. And all that effort for an invisible bow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkara

Also, some of the Espers are supposed to be fairly facepalm-worthy. I think one of them is at the end of a long and difficult dungeon with no save point, and likes to attack with instakill spells. I never even tried to get to that one.

While I've decided Yiazmat can stay in Ivalice as long as he wants, I really do want to go get Ultima and Zodiark at some point. Of the rest, the only Esper that actually annoyed me was C� Chulainn because of the constant, incurable Sap effect in his arena; everyone else's battle conditions provided a good challenge, and it was especially exhilarating to fight Zeromus and Exodus under such severe conditions (at one point, a critical-HP Fran was the only remaining party member versus Zeromus, and yet she managed to revive everyone in the team and beat the Esper. Copious amounts of Nihopalaoa'd Chronos Tears were involved.)

The Dragon's Den in FF6Adv is ass, though. And this, coming from someone who enjoyed and beat the optional dungeon in FF5Adv.

Kalir · #**780** 08-23-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zef

"Nathan"? Who was this, the Neutral endboss?

I found that if you attach a sticky bomb to an unconscious damsel, they become suicide bombers! This isn't very effective, mind you, but it is hilarious. For extra fun, throw one of them with the pitcher's mitt. We call this the Rocky Mountain Throwing Damsel.

Nathan is Meta Gore. I didn't have access to anything beyond what's expected of the player after clearing Grus and Maya. As such, the fight became a dull slog of me using demons that block and reflect Nathan's moves while burning through magic reserves to deal enough damage to Nathan. He shifts strategies when his health is low, but for me since Dan Kataiser was my main attacker, that just slowed down the fight even more. And then he had the gall to heal himself completely after the fight was already over. Come on, Atlus, I already know how the fight works at that point, you don't need to drag it out AGAIN.

Meanwhile, the non-Chaos final boss is still terrible, but for other reasons entirely. also I abused reflection to win because I do not the almighty

I dunno, I feel like if the devs of a game are going to throw in ridiculous postgame challenges for players, they need to at least keep the player on their toes by having them think quickly and use everything in their reserves, and giving bosses with a billion healths and cheap attacks is the lazy way out.