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Blame yourself or God! Let's Play Final Fantasy Tactics!

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  #331  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:30 PM
Coinspinner Coinspinner is offline
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You'd have to ban more than Math Skill... and either randomize or use fixed Brave and Faith values. The only reliable things that can hit a twink are Earth Slash, Draw Out, and some monster skills. And special character skills, but those should just be banned outright.

Basically you'd need FFT II before you can get a decent multiplayer setup. FFT was made to pit you against a larger force of weaker enemies and to make your characters feel powerful, way too many overpowering things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickroad View Post
I don't follow.
I can never manage to "know what the other guy is thinking" so I never enjoy competitive multiplayer for anything deeper than Smash Bros. (and not even that sometimes.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by djSyndrome View Post
I have never cared about bravery and faith in prior playthroughs. Not knowing the mechanics of FFT inside and out, can you explain why I would want to try and permanently affect these?
A unit with 03 Faith is essentially immune to magic. A unit with 97 Brave will almost always use his reaction skill, which in the case of Blade Grasp makes them all but immune to physical attacks.
  #332  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:32 PM
Torgo Torgo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coinspinner View Post
Basically you'd need FFT II before you can get a decent multiplayer setup.
I would be fine with that. It's been over ten years now.
  #333  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:42 PM
kaisel kaisel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coinspinner View Post
A unit with 03 Faith is essentially immune to magic. A unit with 97 Brave will almost always use his reaction skill, which in the case of Blade Grasp makes them all but immune to physical attacks.
If I remember correctly it even works on the non-elemental guns, which is just ridiculous.

On the one hand any player can do this, so it'd be balanced that way, on the other hand you'd see mostly the same setups, high brave/low faith, probably auto potion. I guess it would be balanced by not being able to do much damage to the other person, or have one mage-y unit... it might not be quite as hopeless overall, but I suspect it would lead to everyone using one type of party and the mercy of the RNG.

Actually, if I recall, there were some gamefaqs posters years ago who did a forum based versus version of FFT, though I don't know much more than that.
  #334  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:25 PM
Coinspinner Coinspinner is offline
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The description of Blade Grasp even says it doesn't work on guns or arrows, but it does.
  #335  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:57 PM
Mightyblue Mightyblue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coinspinner View Post
The description of Blade Grasp even says it doesn't work on guns or arrows, but it does.
There's an error in the code for the ability I think. It basically works on all non-special physical attacks (which is why monster attacks aren't blocked because they're treated as Abilities) instead of all non-ranged non-special physical attacks. The elemental guns are actually treated like magical spells (their attack power is derived from MA, not PA like the other guns).

Eddie probably knows better than I do though.
  #336  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:14 PM
Shadax Shadax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisel View Post
Actually, if I recall, there were some gamefaqs posters years ago who did a forum based versus version of FFT, though I don't know much more than that.
The Returners RPG can clumsily be shoehorned into a FFT style, so that might be it. Even more clumsily really, because jrpg mechanics really do not work in pen and paper.

But I digress, Eddie! This is utterly fantastic, so please continue and never stop. Or at least New Game into one of the dizzying array of full game mods out there.

EDIT: How in BlazBlue did you get levelled up so quickly in a space of a month? I recently started and I am in the middle of the third month and still trailing behind you as far as class levels go. Granted, I just realized that I can just have everyone sit there and use Guts abilities/potions to their hearts content only now.
  #337  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:29 PM
Coinspinner Coinspinner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyblue View Post
There's an error in the code for the ability I think. It basically works on all non-special physical attacks (which is why monster attacks aren't blocked because they're treated as Abilities) instead of all non-ranged non-special physical attacks. The elemental guns are actually treated like magical spells (their attack power is derived from MA, not PA like the other guns).

Eddie probably knows better than I do though.
You are sort of correct. The spell guns replace MA in the spell formula with the power of the weapon. Regular guns ignore PA, it's just weapon power times weapon power (WP^2). Some monster abilities are blocked by Blade Grasp, namely the 1 range, physical or touch-based moves.

Code:
           ------------LIST OF COUNTERGRASP ACTIVATORS-------------
          |========================================================|
          |  ATTACK*           Eye Gouge         Beaking           |
          |  JUMP              Scratch           Shine Lover       |
          |  THROW             Poison Nail       Straight Dash     |
          |  CHARGE            Blood Suck**      Bite              |
          |  BATTLE SKILL      Tentacle (squid)  Shake Off         |
          |  Steal Helmet      Knife Hand        Wave Around       |
          |  Steal Armor       Sleep Touch       Tentacle (morbol) |
          |  Steal Weapon      Grease Touch      Goo               |
          |  Steal Accessry    Drain Touch       Stab Up           |
          |  Steal Shield      Zombie Touch      Sudden Cry        |
          |  Gil Taking        Snake Carrier     Dash (dragon)     |
          |  Choco Attack      Wing Attack       Tail Swing        |
          |  Tackle            Scratch Up        Triple Attack     |
          |  Goblin Punch      Beak                                |
          |                                                        |
          |  * Countergrasp reactions (except Blade Grasp) do not  |
          |    work against ATTACKs with magic guns                |
          |  ** Vampire version of 'Blood Suck' only!              |
           --------------------------------------------------------
Although I think the problem is that it shares it's list of triggers with Counter (and other, lesser things.) It should have had it's own, somewhere in between Counter and Hamedo in breadth. Arrow Guard works as intended, so there's no reason the game can't tell the difference between attacks or abilities with a bow or gun and the same used with a sword.
  #338  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:33 PM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Awesome View Post
EDIT: How in BlazBlue did you get levelled up so quickly in a space of a month? I recently started and I am in the middle of the third month and still trailing behind you as far as class levels go. Granted, I just realized that I can just have everyone sit there and use Guts abilities/potions to their hearts content only now.
Short answer: Potions.

Long answer: I don't know whether you're talking about "Character Level" or "Class level" so I'll talk about both:

Character level: I "grind" off screen a bit. It's not a lot (my levels are at or slightly under the average level of enemies I'm facing), but it's not hard to make the most of a single battle. I pretty take the story battles for what they are, but every few story battles I sit down and play "catch up" with those that are lagging behind.

Character level: Unlocking the advanced classes, while not gaining a lot of levels, is simply a matter of only going as far as you need in a class, then getting out. You only need to be a level 2 Squire to become a Knight... so why stay in the class long enough to become a level 3 Squire?

Coinspinner is correct about Blade Grasp. It's an incredible Reaction Ability. It's nearest competitors usually need something to reach it's level of amazing, while all it takes is a high Brave. That said, it's poor/useless in nearly every 'boss' battle in the game, if that's worth anything.

- Eddie
  #339  
Old 08-12-2009, 12:54 AM
Destil Destil is offline
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I've always preferred abandon + feather mantle, though that doesn't help as much from behind. 80/60 physical/magical evasion is nice. I'm too much of a haste addict to give up haste by dropping my faith that low (guess I could use an accessory or zodiac compatibility for it, though).
  #340  
Old 08-12-2009, 01:32 AM
shivam shivam is online now
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i live and die with counter, personally, but shirihadori/blade grasp has made a strong case for itself in this run.
  #341  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:51 AM
Coinspinner Coinspinner is offline
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I don't like counters because I don't get JP for using them. =/

Except Counter Tackle, cuz sometimes it makes the peoples fall down.

EdIt: I once had carefully positioned a unit so that only a weak enemy could attack him. He got attacked, Counter Tackled, and the enemy was pushed back. Then another enemy occupied that space and killed my unit.
  #342  
Old 08-13-2009, 01:18 AM
Torgo Torgo is offline
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I've spent most of my FFT play time over the years hobbling on the crutch that is Auto-Potion. Only in the past year have I started dipping my toe into other reaction abilities. My biggest revelation so far is how useful Regenerate is. I mean, it's not fantastic or anything, but it's actually pretty solid.
  #343  
Old 08-13-2009, 01:50 AM
Shadax Shadax is offline
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Hoo boy, Chapter 2 sure does start you out where you can no longer grind. Thankfully I made a save before the end of Chapter 1.
  #344  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:05 AM
Torgo Torgo is offline
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If you can make it past the last two battles of chapter one, I'd think the first battle of chapter two would be a cinch.
  #345  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:11 AM
Shadax Shadax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgo View Post
If you can make it past the last two battles of chapter one, I'd think the first battle of chapter two would be a cinch.
You'd think, yes. What happened is I just got a bit cocky and sent Ninja Ramza barreling to his death in the last battle and the first battle of chapter two. I pulled through on the last battle by having one of my characters targeted by two spells stand right next to the target, but generally my mind is not in a tactical place right now. That's why the St Ajora gave us grinding though, I guess.
  #346  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:16 AM
Torgo Torgo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Awesome View Post
I pulled through on the last battle by having one of my characters targeted by two spells stand right next to the target, but generally my mind is not in a tactical place right now.
Wait, you made a unit into a kamikaze by targeting it with offensive spells?

I... I never thought of that before.
  #347  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:21 AM
Mightyblue Mightyblue is offline
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It's been a while since I've played but I'm almost tempted to see if you could lock offensive summons onto a PC unit. I doubt it, but then, I've never tried it either.

I'm intrigued! The only other really worthwhile uses I could see out of this would be locking Cure spells onto your crew rushing into battle with the undead or locking the fourth tier elemental magics with their greater radii. Then again, Cure spells charge pretty fast and the fourth tier black spells are the essence of gimmickry.
  #348  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:25 AM
Kishi Kishi is offline
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I'm pretty sure summons can't target friendly units. That's why learning Zodiark is such a kerfuffle.
  #349  
Old 08-13-2009, 03:28 AM
Mightyblue Mightyblue is offline
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I know they don't affect them. I was wondering if you could still still lock the spell onto a friendly unit instead of just the square it's standing on. Which probably isn't possible.
  #350  
Old 08-13-2009, 08:38 AM
Coinspinner Coinspinner is offline
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That is pretty much the only way to use fourth tier black magic. (Which looks so good.)

Just make sure your bomber can absorb the spell, and watch the CT so the enemy doesn't just walk out of the way between the bomber's turns.
  #351  
Old 08-13-2009, 12:37 PM
Shadax Shadax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgo View Post
Wait, you made a unit into a kamikaze by targeting it with offensive spells?

I... I never thought of that before.
She was a mystic with no MP left, so naturally both black mages locked onto her with blizzard spells. A quick look at the CT showed that she moved right before the spells went off, so I just moved her right next to the boss, cast the blind spell to lower his evade, and let him be murdered by his own magic.

Last edited by Shadax; 08-13-2009 at 04:22 PM.
  #352  
Old 08-13-2009, 03:16 PM
ThricebornPhoenix ThricebornPhoenix is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishi View Post
I'm pretty sure summons can't target friendly units. That's why learning Zodiark is such a kerfuffle.
Can you insta-learn any spell via friendly fire? I'm not sure I've even tried that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyblue View Post
I know they don't affect them. I was wondering if you could still still lock the spell onto a friendly unit instead of just the square it's standing on. Which probably isn't possible.
It seems too awesome to be possible, but it certainly is - I just tested to make sure of it. Strangely, the two nearest enemies ran up to and attacked my targetted unit immediately. Could it be the AI knew they were going to get hit with a summon bomb?
  #353  
Old 08-13-2009, 03:44 PM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThricebornPhoenix View Post
Can you insta-learn any spell via friendly fire? I'm not sure I've even tried that.
There's only a few spells that you can learn via "being hit" by them, and there are plenty of restrictions on top of that.

Let's just say that passing Zodiac onto other party members is work. I'll do my best to demonstrate it in this LP, but needless to say it involves a lot of set up and preparation.

- Eddie
  #354  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:09 PM
ThricebornPhoenix ThricebornPhoenix is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
There's only a few spells that you can learn via "being hit" by them, and there are plenty of restrictions on top of that.
I know there aren't many, but they're mainly top-tier. it seems far too cheap to be able to 'transfer' something like, e.g., Meteor by using it on another of your own units normally. (I've forgotten a lot of details, it's been years since I last read the BMG.) I never did bother to try passing on Zodiac, sounded like more trouble than it's worth.
  #355  
Old 08-13-2009, 10:22 PM
Destil Destil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyblue View Post
I know they don't affect them. I was wondering if you could still still lock the spell onto a friendly unit instead of just the square it's standing on. Which probably isn't possible.
You can absolutely do this. I was talking about doubling the range of spells with reflect earlier but that's nothing compaired to what you can do with this and a fast character. My favorite use is the fight in Lost Sacred Precincts. Lock two Bahamut casts onto a female ninja with Jump+3 and just leap across the barrier across the middle of the stage, landing right at the center of the enemy formation with swords dawn and two huge summon spells about to go off around you.
  #356  
Old 08-14-2009, 06:39 PM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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Update time! Here's how the current team is looking:



Ramza is still plugging away at the Priest job. He's picked up most of the useful skills for the class. I've switched Time Magic with Guts to save on MP ("Yell" isn't as good as Haste, but at least it's free), but I wouldn't mind grabbing Holy. Following that we'll be dipping into both Mediator and Summoner, hitting level 4 in both before a short stint as a Bard.

Goal: ?



Junk is, well, pretty average. He's basically doing the work that would normally happen entirely off screen (why raise Brave/Faith in a story battle when you could do it in a random one?), but I dunno. I have a soft spot for the little guy. He's a scrapper!

Junk is still chugging along in his class; we're going to master it before sending him into Geomancer (a class he'll probably be able to jump right into as long as he keeps getting bleed JP from Sissie and Jean). I'm still uncertain whether to keep him using a gun, via Equip Gun or not. Suggestions? Are Geomancers cooler with Swords, or Firearms?

Goal: Geomancer/Mediator.



Jean is well, awesome. He's our heaviest hitter (thanks, Monk!). Nuff said! It's clobbering time!

Jean continues to punch his way to victory, but his time as a Monk is growing short. Chapter 2 will soon introduce spears, which will allow him to become that Lancer he was able to turn into several battles ago (which was also conveniently unlock Samurai). Maybe we can get enough JP for Earth Slash beforehand.

Goal: Samurai/Lancer.



Sullivan is pretty solid. Not being female hurts a bit, but he's still hitting for enough damage that he's always a solid addition to any battle I bring him to.

No need for any changes here; mastering Wizard is more or less the plan for now, so we'll continue to teach him various attack spells. I'm thinking that for varieties sake, we'll just grab Fire/Ice/Bolt 1-2-3 and switch to Oracle.

Goal: Wizard/Oracle.




Tabatha... kind of sucks right now. She's still trying to run around the Job tree to open up the Ninja class, and that means she's never stuck around to get anything really of use. Still, Ninja will improve things considerably.

Well, she has just learned Steal Weapon. Unfortunately, that's not putting him any closer to a Ninja, nor did she get that Archer JP from Delita I was hoping she'd get. So, we'll throw her in Archer for a small bit, probably in an offscreen battle, and make her a monk for a short while in order to learn Counter (and open Geomancer). A short stint of Geomancer then will open up that Ninja class, making Counter pretty sweet.

Goal: Ninja/Chemist.



I love Sissie. She's like Teri Hatcher (From "Lois and Clark" era). Dependable, strong, and looks good in a one piece.

Okay, so she Chakra's better than she punches. That's still pretty good! We'll keep trying to raise her Brave. I've taught her Wave Fist, next is Earth Slash. Given the amount of people in our party that use magic, she's essentially a pretty tough mana battery!

Goal: Monk/Thief.



Jessica is slowly evolving into the most broken character in the party. It's slow, but it's happening.

Summoners rock, even ones that just know Moogle and Shiva! We're not going to keep Jessica in Summoner for too much longer however. We need to jump into White Mage until level 4 and 600 JP, before jumping to Oracle to nab level 3. We'll keep the Summoning as the secondary skill, but we'll be back to clean it up.

Goal: Summoner/Calculator.

So how are you guys feeling about this roster? Is anyone floating your boat? Making you cringe? After the next battle we'll be in Chapter 2, which is a perfect excuse to recruit some new blood to replace some of these guys. As always, leave your comments and questions in the thread!

And now: bar rumours!



Note: "Death Corps" is a dubious name as it is, but for the love of Pete, don't call your rebellious sub-group "The Thieves."



This rumour is actually interesting, because Wiegraf clearly states during the battle that that King has died. I'm guessing it's a translation error, and that Wiegraf should have said "dying" instead, but I dunno. Anyway, the Lion War hasn't started quite yet...


That name!

- Eddie

Last edited by Eddie; 03-24-2010 at 10:32 PM.
  #357  
Old 08-14-2009, 07:54 PM
Lucas Lucas is offline
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I like the idea of a geomancer with guns.
  #358  
Old 08-14-2009, 11:48 PM
Zef Zef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
I LOVE the idea of a geomancer with guns.
  #359  
Old 08-15-2009, 12:36 AM
Stiv Stiv is offline
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Geomancer + gun is one of my favorite combinations in the game, because it creates a really superb ranged unit. Junk needs to bust a cap in some suckas.
  #360  
Old 08-17-2009, 01:15 PM
Atrus93 Atrus93 is offline
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Just finished reading through this, and it's rather awesome. I've never played FFT (or FFTA, or FFTA2 etc.), so I'm both lost and insanely intrigued. This sounds like exactly the type of game I would enjoy.

One question though:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie
2. Ban Calculators
This isn't the first time I've heard somebody proclaim the greatness of this class. Could somebody please explain why Calculators are so broken? I don't even really know what they do (except that they seem to be magical).
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