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To Infinity and Beyond: The Marvel Cinematic Universe
- Thread starter Vaeran
- Start date
ArugulaZ
Fearful asymmetry
I just realized after some thought that ideas like Counter-Earth and the High Evolutionary had previously been established in the Spider-Man Unlimited cartoon from 1999. It was kind of crappy in the same way G.I. Joe Extreme was kind of crappy (and it's got Rino Romano as Peter Parker, who later went on to play kind of crappy Batman in The Batman), but it's interesting that these concepts had been around for a while as Marvel canon, and not just something the writers had pulled out of their butts.
Long before that, too it was the whole deal with the Adam Warlock comics from the 70s. Key difference being that Warlock manages to convince HE to not obliterate the planet when he realizes it’s not the utopia he intended
I like it, sure let's go with that.
Okay, so… okay.
I’ve seen a lot of superhero movies. I’ve seen a lot of animated movies. Now I have to hold up Across the Spider-Verse as a point of comparison.
So now I think they all suck.
I’ve seen a lot of superhero movies. I’ve seen a lot of animated movies. Now I have to hold up Across the Spider-Verse as a point of comparison.
So now I think they all suck.
They're telling the truth, it's super good!
jpfriction
(He, Him)
I disagree. It’s super duper good!
It was like that for quite some time in the first decade of the 2000s but switched back to Friday (actually late Thursday night) in the 2010s and now it is only done at certain times.
"Movies typically launch on Wednesdays if their debut coincides with a big holiday weekend so that they don’t get trampled or ignored during big feasts or celebrations."
"Movies typically launch on Wednesdays if their debut coincides with a big holiday weekend so that they don’t get trampled or ignored during big feasts or celebrations."
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It's not the best animated movie I've ever seen, but it's a high contender for best superhero movie I've ever seen, and easy best Marvel movie ever made.
R.R. Bigman
Coolest Guy
Does it a have a good central villain? Kingpin being a generic bad guy was my only problem with first movie, so if they fixed that it’s gravy.
There are no flaws in this film
A friend of mine saw it yesterday and said
I feel like I can now go see it without bias, as I've heard both extremes XDit wasn't really worth seeing, in my opinion
The main villain for the movie only got like 10 minutes of showtime, and they spent like 5 minutes introducing EVERY new Spider-Man. (For each new Spiderman/Spiderwoman/Spiderhorse, they spent 5 minutes introducing /each/. Not 5 minutes total for all of them)
On top of that, they constantly reuse old jokes like the 3-spider-pointing
I can see what everyone else thinks but I was genuinely let down by this
jpfriction
(He, Him)
There’s a take you can cook a steak on.
To be fair; Leonardo DaVulture did only get about 10 minutes of screen time
The main bad guy in Spiderverse2 is society
A friend of mine saw it yesterday and said
it wasn't really worth seeing, in my opinion
The main villain for the movie only got like 10 minutes of showtime, and they spent like 5 minutes introducing EVERY new Spider-Man. (For each new Spiderman/Spiderwoman/Spiderhorse, they spent 5 minutes introducing /each/. Not 5 minutes total for all of them)
On top of that, they constantly reuse old jokes like the 3-spider-pointing
I can see what everyone else thinks but I was genuinely let down by this
I feel like I can now go see it without bias, as I've heard both extremes XD
It's such a radioactive hot take that if it bit you, you'd turn into Hot Take-Man.
I just rewatched the first movie tonight (because I can't get the sequel out of my head), and I can tell you that they call back to a total of two (2) jokes. One is Spider-Men pointing at each other as your friend said, and the other is "I think it's a Banksy." They also don't spend "five minutes" on every new Spider-Man in Across. There are a handful of important new ones and they each get a little focus, just as Noir/Peni/Spider-Ham did in Into, but it hardly drags the pacing down or the spotlight away from Miles and Gwen.
Not everyone's going to love every movie, and if your friend felt let down by the sequel, they're certainly allowed that. But their stated reasoning is just not applicable to the movie I watched, and I think they ought to re-examine what they didn't like about it. By the same token I don't want you to feel pressured to have a positive opinion about it -- I certainly hope you have a great time when you do see it, but if you don't that's fine too.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
Just watched it. My relationship with it is a bit complicated.
There is a lot that I loved about it. The artstyle is amazing (no idea if it's the best looking, but it's the most visually artistic I have ever seen). I mean, it's also gorgeous (is this the word? I forgot how to spell it). The humour is great, it's one of the funniest movies I had seen in some time (granted, not that hard, I don't watch many movies - still, it's super funny). Actually, there were so many great jokes in there, that the finger-pointing felt pointlessly silly, like they did it because they had to.
Emotional moments were all great and hit strong. Every time our heroes talked to their parents was really well done.
The first fight scene was amazing. DaVinci Vulture looked awesome, and the way Quenn and the two other Spideys worked together was equally great. Wonderfully choreographed.
The Spot was amazingly done, going from goofy weirdo to really terrifying cosmic horror. He reminded me of Earthbounds Gyigas (that's his name, right?), looking incomprehensible, weird and horrifying. Which, honestly, with how he was set up hit so deep, I had a hard time with it. The social criticizm here is brutal, and felt like it was more than I could stomach, taking me out of the movie.
So, about why it is complicated:
I don't buy the setup here. There are an insane number of Spider-people here. And all of them, except for one of our main characters, accept that the canon things have to happen. Every Spidey has to lose someone important. You can't live in a different dimension. And therefore, Quenn has to accept that Miles will lose his father, as will she (until he quit, anyway, I guess). And everyone accepts it. I don't buy it. Maybe I'm mixing this up with Anime, or other shows, where there is ALWAYS a way, but considering that our Miles doesn't accept it, I simply can't accept that he is the only one here. And all the others, including not only Quenn, but also Papa Peter, Anime Spidey, and probably all the Spideys from the first movie.
I mean, it creates great material. Miles being a misfit around misfits hits extra hard, and is really unfair.
The second point is regarding the movie being a two-parter, without a clear ending. I don't follow news about movies, so maybe this was commicated, at least in previews or something, so I accept that this might be on me. I mean, I shouldn't be expected to read extratextual stuff, but I also have no idea how to incorporate such a fact into the movie itself. Dunno, maybe make it clear in the name of the movie? I'm really glad that I was spoiled about this, because that part would have left a really bad taste.
To be clear, I don't mind it being a movie without an ending in itself. My problem is, that I nearly didn't know. And, considering the reactions of other people in the room, it was not taken well. Again, if it has to be a two parter, that's fine. Having it be a surprise doesn't sit well with me, at all.
This doesn't mean it's a bad movie in any way, shape or form. It was, on the whole, very enjoyable. The ending simply didn't work for me. Still, if you are a fan of Spider-Man, or maybe superhero movies in general, I consider it a must-watch.
The last scene, with the Spideys from the first movie, made me hungry for more. And I guess watching this and the next movie in a row, acting like it's just a five-hour long movie (knowing that it will be loooong) should make my problems go away.
There are more great things, that I didn't mention. I love this weird Spidey-Universe. I love the goofy Spideys, especially the animals. I love how there are seemingly Spideys who are just there for running the cafeteria. It's delightfully dumb.
Probably more that I'm not thinking of, at the moment. But this is long enough already.
There is a lot that I loved about it. The artstyle is amazing (no idea if it's the best looking, but it's the most visually artistic I have ever seen). I mean, it's also gorgeous (is this the word? I forgot how to spell it). The humour is great, it's one of the funniest movies I had seen in some time (granted, not that hard, I don't watch many movies - still, it's super funny). Actually, there were so many great jokes in there, that the finger-pointing felt pointlessly silly, like they did it because they had to.
Emotional moments were all great and hit strong. Every time our heroes talked to their parents was really well done.
The first fight scene was amazing. DaVinci Vulture looked awesome, and the way Quenn and the two other Spideys worked together was equally great. Wonderfully choreographed.
The Spot was amazingly done, going from goofy weirdo to really terrifying cosmic horror. He reminded me of Earthbounds Gyigas (that's his name, right?), looking incomprehensible, weird and horrifying. Which, honestly, with how he was set up hit so deep, I had a hard time with it. The social criticizm here is brutal, and felt like it was more than I could stomach, taking me out of the movie.
So, about why it is complicated:
I don't buy the setup here. There are an insane number of Spider-people here. And all of them, except for one of our main characters, accept that the canon things have to happen. Every Spidey has to lose someone important. You can't live in a different dimension. And therefore, Quenn has to accept that Miles will lose his father, as will she (until he quit, anyway, I guess). And everyone accepts it. I don't buy it. Maybe I'm mixing this up with Anime, or other shows, where there is ALWAYS a way, but considering that our Miles doesn't accept it, I simply can't accept that he is the only one here. And all the others, including not only Quenn, but also Papa Peter, Anime Spidey, and probably all the Spideys from the first movie.
I mean, it creates great material. Miles being a misfit around misfits hits extra hard, and is really unfair.
The second point is regarding the movie being a two-parter, without a clear ending. I don't follow news about movies, so maybe this was commicated, at least in previews or something, so I accept that this might be on me. I mean, I shouldn't be expected to read extratextual stuff, but I also have no idea how to incorporate such a fact into the movie itself. Dunno, maybe make it clear in the name of the movie? I'm really glad that I was spoiled about this, because that part would have left a really bad taste.
To be clear, I don't mind it being a movie without an ending in itself. My problem is, that I nearly didn't know. And, considering the reactions of other people in the room, it was not taken well. Again, if it has to be a two parter, that's fine. Having it be a surprise doesn't sit well with me, at all.
This doesn't mean it's a bad movie in any way, shape or form. It was, on the whole, very enjoyable. The ending simply didn't work for me. Still, if you are a fan of Spider-Man, or maybe superhero movies in general, I consider it a must-watch.
The last scene, with the Spideys from the first movie, made me hungry for more. And I guess watching this and the next movie in a row, acting like it's just a five-hour long movie (knowing that it will be loooong) should make my problems go away.
There are more great things, that I didn't mention. I love this weird Spidey-Universe. I love the goofy Spideys, especially the animals. I love how there are seemingly Spideys who are just there for running the cafeteria. It's delightfully dumb.
Probably more that I'm not thinking of, at the moment. But this is long enough already.
I saw the new Spiders-Mans as well and overall I loved it a lot. I think I might like the first Spiderverse movie more just for the virtue of it being a single complete movie, but I think I liked individual moments in this one more overall.
Really my biggest (only?) complaint about Across is that it feels less like a complete 2 hour movie and more like it was supposed to be a 3 hour movie that had its third act chopped off. The To Be Continued is REALLY abrupt. I was so into the movie I didn't even realize how much time had passed and while I knew it was going to end on a cliffhanger I honestly wasn't expecting it where it was. And I also feel just a tad worried about Beyond as it is set up because it might turn out to be just one super long third act and we already saw that in cinema and it was called Battle of Five Armies and it didn't work out great there either.
I'll hold onto hope, though, because Across was just so goddamn good I want to see them stick the landing for Beyond.
Really my biggest (only?) complaint about Across is that it feels less like a complete 2 hour movie and more like it was supposed to be a 3 hour movie that had its third act chopped off. The To Be Continued is REALLY abrupt. I was so into the movie I didn't even realize how much time had passed and while I knew it was going to end on a cliffhanger I honestly wasn't expecting it where it was. And I also feel just a tad worried about Beyond as it is set up because it might turn out to be just one super long third act and we already saw that in cinema and it was called Battle of Five Armies and it didn't work out great there either.
I'll hold onto hope, though, because Across was just so goddamn good I want to see them stick the landing for Beyond.
I liked the movie. But I liked it a lot less than the first. I really don't like the premise of Miguel's mission at all and I really don't buy that basically every Spider-Man, including Peter B and Gwen, would buy into it without asking any questions that we can see until Miles shows up and starts making a mess. And I don't know how you make one of the longest animated movies of all time that feels like half a story. ItSV told a complete, satisfying story in less time than it took one to basically set up the stakes for the actual story in part 3. Good character stuff, great art, kind of a failure otherwise.
I think I understand this criticism. I think in a different film, I would be right with you. But to me, I thought the messaging here was pretty clear. The entire film, not just Miguel, but a ton of different characters from all across Miles's life tell him things are a certain way, and he just has to deal with it. But the only evidence anyone ever offers up is anecdotal in nature at best. People are treating their experiences as fact, but are either too traumatized by their experiences to look at things more objectively, or too uncritical or too afraid to rock the boat to push back against them. All these other characters might mean well, but they're projecting their traumas and how they deal with it onto Miles. And a big part of the themes of this movie is people projecting onto Milles who he is and what he should be. I thought the film was almost a little to direct having Miles say very directly towards the climax how everyone keeps telling him how his story is supposed to go. The whole thing was in service to demonstrating how toxic society is with its expectations and how it wants to control young brown men. At least that's how I read things
Also, recall that this Spider-Society was founded by Miguel; all new recruits seem like they have to go through him -- I'm pretty sure there's sample selection bias going on here. Where Miguel is only recruiting Spider-people who will tow the company line and reaffirm his worldview. There are very clearly Spider-people out there who don't believe what he says, and they probably aren't invited to the party. Meanwhile, dad-Pete, Spider-punk, Gwen, and Peni all defect in the aftermath. I think it's fine.
Continuing from the above - as for accepting the captain-death canon events, Peter B has already had his, so he's probably more prone to seeing that as "the way things are" - because for him, that is in fact the way things were. A lot of the others are probably in the same boat. Gwen is clearly torn about it, but she also spends most of the movie in a weird place w/r/t her relationship to her father, so I think it's wrapped up in a lot of other complex feelings and, ultimately, she's putting off thinking too hard about it yet (and that whole expectation colors her reconciliation scene with her father too).
I think a problem I had with the way it all went down is that Miles is kept in the dark until basically what turns out to be the climax of the movie. They don't get more into the specifics of the other characters' understanding of it because there's just no time left to do that. Pretty big pacing issue when you write a four hour movie and chop it in half.
The idea that there will be more of this thing I really really enjoyed, and that the story isn't over yet is exciting and enticing to me, not a failing of the film.
It can be both. I'm 100% hype for more of this, but also the ending was kind of a gut punch since I didn't know it was coming and left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. I typically believe that a movie should stand on its own even if its part of something bigger, and Across is kind of testing that belief for me.
It has all of the narrative beats, themes, and structure of a stand alone film, including a pretty fulfilling dramatic climax. The only difference between a "stand alone" film and this is that it used the falling action/conclusion to set up the next movie in order to complete the plot threads intentionally left open in this one. I don't see any difference between this and Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back or Lord of the Rings: Two Towers. The only real difference I can see is one of unadjusted expectations, where most of y'all went into those movies knowing they were the 2nd act of a trilogy, and here y'all getting into things on the ground floor.
All I can say is that I don't agree on it being a satisfying climax. I liked the movie and failure is maybe a harsh word but it's just how I felt.