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The Ultimate Final Fantasy Thread: This Guy Are Knock You All Down
- Thread starter Issun
- Start date
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- Tags
- ...whatever baha-blast bobby corwen caffeine free cherry bahamut zero cid's terrifying teeth did u kno the ffxiv free trial goes to hw? everybody knows dr unne final fantasy ha ha ha ha ha! i like big butz i'm captain basch! i'm here to kill chaos is mythril yummy? lali ho! let's mosey lord blast one to be born from a dragon role-playing game son of a submariner! square square enix stupid sexy balthier wah-wah about wah-wah xbox ps3 3ds nintendo wii sephiroth! sephiroth! you don't know jack garland
Honestly the time investment is what stops me. I have the free trial installed in my PS4, my PS5 *and* my Mac. I even created a character. I just haven started playing because the time investment paralyzes me - I went down that rabbit hole with WoW 15 years ago and I'm not sure I want to go there again.See, first it was intimidating because it was an MMO, now it's intimidating because even if it's turned out to be an MMO that studiously respects your time, at this point it's like five entire games or something.
Yes, the guy who is 150hrs into his Persona 5 Royal save (still in November, thank you very much) is intimitated by the time he's wiling to commit to a MMO.
(and yes, this is a me problem, not a FFXIV problem)
Yeah, that's... not bad. I dig the jazzy keyboard bridge. And the whole thing is kind of Katamari-esque, or just general Namco sound team on a chill day.
That's Paya-Paya, not Papaya. Yeesh.
Philistines.
Just think of all the other fantastic music you'd get to listen to if you played FFXIV!
Philistines.
Just think of all the other fantastic music you'd get to listen to if you played FFXIV!
4-So
Spicy
Ha!
Funny thing is I started as a Lalafell but I preferred the way the armor looked on others, so my character switched to a dragon-lady, and is currently a cat-girl.
The developer/gameplay philosophy you highlighted is enlightening, and that probably goes a long way to helping to explain part of why fervent fans are so fervent. But it also highlights what I'm pointing out, and what my argument is more contingent upon - that perception might not perfectly reflect reality, but it's still an obstacle for games like this to reach the highest peaks of broad popularity. This person asking the question in this anecdote is a player, and even they didn't get the idea - what chance does a bystander have? All of that is a good sell, but your average joe/jane gamer isn't going to know any of that unless someone in their life did a lot of proselytizing to them previously. What they are likely to know, is that games take time and money, and lotta people are short on one or both, and they do the best to make decisions for themselves with their limited knowledge. And also while you've outlined an optimal way of playing the game, you're not going to get everyone to agree that that's the way that they'll play it either, and their natural proclivities will lead them to having a suboptimal experience that may cause them to bounce off. If I recounted to you my experience with the game, you'd probably either die of embarrassment or pop a blood vessel.
I have a few hundred hours of FFXIV logged back during 2.0, but it's been a hot minute so you're right that I don't exactly know what the game is like now. I know that there's been lots of streamlining with regards to allowing players to level at an accelerated pace, as well as the stripping of a lot of inconsequential side content in the early parts of the game. But even still, the story in 2.0 was a slog to get through and something I never personally managed. The gameplay cycle never really clicked with me either. I've read endless times that the later expansions are some of the best in the franchise, but you've got to get through the early stuff first to get there. And it's never a great proposition to ask someone to wait until it gets good, because not everyone can do that.
They did streamline and cut down ARR’s questline, especially getting into Heavensward (most/all quests are still in the game but notably have been converted to side quests rather than mandatory MSQ).
If you didn’t like it that’s fine. But as with the varied responses you’ve seen here, especially Kazin’s you can see that FFXIV isn’t an mmo that requires players to maintain an ongoing subscription nor dedicate their lives to the game in order to grind something out to see “progress”.
For me, I’ve never unsubbed: I’ve been playing since the last ARR beta. I’m probably an outlier. There are things I like beyond the story such as Savage raiding. And even then there are periods like right now where I barely spend more than six hours a week on the game (essentially only logging on for raid) cos I want to do other things.
FFXIV doesn’t demand time but also doesn’t lack content either if you want to play more. Vanity mounts that drop from boss fights, glamour, crafting, housing & gardening, Big Fishing (my one true love), etc. all are in there as optional activities.
It’s just that FFXIV doesn’t require grinding to enjoy the story or a lot of the content. It also makes sure to make older content and items more accessible or easier to get (like upping the drop rate exponentially on those aforementioned vanity mounts that drop from previously tough bosses as well as letting you fight that boss at level 80 instead of the original level 50 or whatever).
There is also plenty of things I don’t interact with myself that others do. Like the 24-person alliance raids, or many of the roulette options (looking at you MSQ roulette). Or *shudder* PVP.
If you didn’t like it that’s fine. But as with the varied responses you’ve seen here, especially Kazin’s you can see that FFXIV isn’t an mmo that requires players to maintain an ongoing subscription nor dedicate their lives to the game in order to grind something out to see “progress”.
For me, I’ve never unsubbed: I’ve been playing since the last ARR beta. I’m probably an outlier. There are things I like beyond the story such as Savage raiding. And even then there are periods like right now where I barely spend more than six hours a week on the game (essentially only logging on for raid) cos I want to do other things.
FFXIV doesn’t demand time but also doesn’t lack content either if you want to play more. Vanity mounts that drop from boss fights, glamour, crafting, housing & gardening, Big Fishing (my one true love), etc. all are in there as optional activities.
It’s just that FFXIV doesn’t require grinding to enjoy the story or a lot of the content. It also makes sure to make older content and items more accessible or easier to get (like upping the drop rate exponentially on those aforementioned vanity mounts that drop from previously tough bosses as well as letting you fight that boss at level 80 instead of the original level 50 or whatever).
There is also plenty of things I don’t interact with myself that others do. Like the 24-person alliance raids, or many of the roulette options (looking at you MSQ roulette). Or *shudder* PVP.
I mean, I countered your personal anecdotal evidence with my personal anecdotal evidence, as I've only gone through the first expansion and a few patches of it and I already consider it a top-3 installment in the franchise, so calling it a "slog" or another example of "wait until episode 40, it gets good then" is a bit of a strawman. Especially when "you've read countless times" but I don't think anyone has made that argument here?
Someday, I will see your /playtime. Someday. MBs, too.
Ahaha, no. It's already bad enough I've been playing since 1.0 (which was a decade ago).
There may be a threshold where it's easier for the server to just do a Date Diff between today and the subscription date...
No, I trust everything you guys have been saying about accessibility and time respect. It's not that I hated the game either, I played it for hundreds of hours. I generally don't do that with a game unless there's some redeeming qualities that clicked with me at some point. It's just back then, 2.0 was a bit too MMOy for me, and a lot of the game's core mechanics didn't sit well with me either. A lot of that I acknowledge is more a reflection of me as a gamer and my proclivities than anything the game does itself. If you present me with a gigantic smorgasbord of "optional" content to go through, I'm the kind of gamer that is compelled to do it all, and at some point I'll invariably burn out if I don't run out of content first. And that's setting aside other aspects to my experience how combat never clicked with me, and neither did 2.0's story. I keep hearing how the story gets better, but I just usually have a fundamental disconnect from a lot of game stories that feature silent protagonists, so I've got doubt I'll ever get the most out of the expansions. Y'all would cry if I actually detailed my play experience with the game.
One thing they did HW onward (and especially in Shadowbringers) is give the player many options for dialogue that weren’t present in ARR and influences NPC responses. It really helps flesh out your character.
The way they write the stories around your character being the Warrior of Light is honestly the best I’ve seen with silent protagonists at all, not just in MMOs.
ARR, for how amazing it was when it was released, being developed in two fucking years which is incredibly short of a time for a new mmo from the ground up (even with many of the graphical etc assets they could reuse) does suffer pacing and narratively in comparison to what comes after.
I absolutely remember the days of the “N. Than Gang” where you had to run fates in that area to get from level 47 to 50 in order to continue the MSQ at launch because roulettes didn’t exist yet and dungeons didn't give anywhere near enough exp to be worth running instead. It was awful and I have hated FATEs since (so I don’t do them now for the most part).
Stuff like that has changed with ARR’s subsequent patches as well as increasing exp by leaps and bounds to previous expansions such that new player will not only will never need to grind to get to a requisite level for the msq, but will probably be significantly overlevelled instead.
The armoury bonus was doubled to 100% more exp gained from levels 1-70 and is 50% for 71-80.
What makes it worse was the very uneven voice acting and direction in ARR. When HW was released everyone was surprised to hear new (permanent) voices for the main cast, but it was a wise decision since they were allocated a much bigger budget and it has paid off tremendously.
There are some truly stellar English performances in HW onwards, so if you ever picked it up again (or you are reading this considering playing the game for the first time) do yourself a favour and leave the VA in English.
The way they write the stories around your character being the Warrior of Light is honestly the best I’ve seen with silent protagonists at all, not just in MMOs.
ARR, for how amazing it was when it was released, being developed in two fucking years which is incredibly short of a time for a new mmo from the ground up (even with many of the graphical etc assets they could reuse) does suffer pacing and narratively in comparison to what comes after.
I absolutely remember the days of the “N. Than Gang” where you had to run fates in that area to get from level 47 to 50 in order to continue the MSQ at launch because roulettes didn’t exist yet and dungeons didn't give anywhere near enough exp to be worth running instead. It was awful and I have hated FATEs since (so I don’t do them now for the most part).
Stuff like that has changed with ARR’s subsequent patches as well as increasing exp by leaps and bounds to previous expansions such that new player will not only will never need to grind to get to a requisite level for the msq, but will probably be significantly overlevelled instead.
The armoury bonus was doubled to 100% more exp gained from levels 1-70 and is 50% for 71-80.
What makes it worse was the very uneven voice acting and direction in ARR. When HW was released everyone was surprised to hear new (permanent) voices for the main cast, but it was a wise decision since they were allocated a much bigger budget and it has paid off tremendously.
There are some truly stellar English performances in HW onwards, so if you ever picked it up again (or you are reading this considering playing the game for the first time) do yourself a favour and leave the VA in English.
I don't know if dialog options would help much. They usually frustrate me more than anything else, because then I begin seeing the seams in the scripting and it pulls me out of an immersive story. When you can answer someone's question like a renegade in one conversation, then answer like a paladin in another with no consistency or consequences, it just feels like my character has no personality of its own. I'd rather roleplay in the sense of trying to empathize with a fully formed character with its own agency, versus do a self-insert into a story. When a character has their own motivations and perspectives and feelings, that helps me get invested into a story and following wherever that character takes me. When my character has amnesia and just kinda wanders aimlessly and does what people tell them to without question, I start suffering from existential ennui on their behalf. If they don't have motives for doing any of this, why should I? I think that's just my approach to storytelling in general though, and it's obviously ymmv. I approach media as a person who is not a particularly imaginative person, but who values being able to take a peak and see the imaginations of others. So when confronted with a blank slate I'm like, "What am I supposed to do with this?" But if you give me the fully formed product of another person's imagination I find that enthralling.
In 2.0, when confronted with a bunch of text-heavy dialog for the story, where you're at best a very passive participant with a character who just kinda watches things that happens around them or is talked at for minutes on end, much like when I play Elder Scrolls games I was like, "Why should I do any of this story stuff? Why does my character care? Why should I care?" and usually found myself drawn to doing other things than the main story if I could help it. I maxed out all of the gathering and crafting classes before I even hit level 30 on a single combat class as a result, which told me I probably wasn't the best fit for the game if I was that allergic to doing combat/the story.
In 2.0, when confronted with a bunch of text-heavy dialog for the story, where you're at best a very passive participant with a character who just kinda watches things that happens around them or is talked at for minutes on end, much like when I play Elder Scrolls games I was like, "Why should I do any of this story stuff? Why does my character care? Why should I care?" and usually found myself drawn to doing other things than the main story if I could help it. I maxed out all of the gathering and crafting classes before I even hit level 30 on a single combat class as a result, which told me I probably wasn't the best fit for the game if I was that allergic to doing combat/the story.
I'll throw you a bone: I'm at 264 days, 14 hours, 52 minutes as of this post
This is just shy of 6,351 hours, in case anyone was curious (I know I was. Last I checked I want to say I was at like, 2,000 hours? Maybe? Can't remember. They should put playtime on Lodestone).
4-So
Spicy
The only real slight I have against FF14 - and I use the term slight loosely, so take it with a grain of salt - is that the enthusiasm for the game can feel intimidating. Especially if you come from WoW, where it is commonplace to shit on Blizzard, decry the game, and still play it for the ironic lulz, the FF14 crowd is genuinely excited to play "their" game because it's really that good. While I enjoy the game, I don't think it's the greatest thing since humankind invented the bidet, but a lot of people who play seem to. I have my qualms with it, for sure, but it's far better than it maybe has any right to be (if you catch my drift).
This is interesting because the "passive participant" aspect is far worse in WoW. (Not that you're excusing WoW here.) It's just interesting to see the perspective because, after playing WoW since 2005, and DAoC and EQ1/2 before it, I would personally never pin the kind of passive experience you're suggesting on FF14. Quite the opposite, in fact, since the game goes hard on the whole Warrior of Light stuff.
This is interesting because the "passive participant" aspect is far worse in WoW. (Not that you're excusing WoW here.) It's just interesting to see the perspective because, after playing WoW since 2005, and DAoC and EQ1/2 before it, I would personally never pin the kind of passive experience you're suggesting on FF14. Quite the opposite, in fact, since the game goes hard on the whole Warrior of Light stuff.
4-So
Spicy
I'm about to hit Altissia soon in FF15, which will be furthest I've been in the game. Turns out that my more recently adopted stance - in an open world game, I will do side quests and activities along the critical path but I will not go out of my way to "complete the map" - has done wonders here. The game has not overstayed its welcome, as it did the first time I tried to play through it. (Being cognizant of my completionist impulse and willfully tossing it in the dustbin has been a real scales-falling-from-my-eyes thing.)
I think that's probably the best way to play it. You'll get the ability later in the game to return to the open world, so whenever you feel kinda burned out on sidequests, absolutely get back on the main story train. It'll be there for you when you get back, and in fact, there are rewards for heading back to the open world after getting to the end-game area.
R.R. Bigman
Coolest Guy
I played an hour of FF X tonight.
My main thoughts:
Hey, it’s Ratchet!
Auron seems cool.
I already goofed up on the Sphere Grid. I wish you could undo moves on it.
Why can everybody breathe underwater?
My main thoughts:
Hey, it’s Ratchet!
Auron seems cool.
I already goofed up on the Sphere Grid. I wish you could undo moves on it.
Why can everybody breathe underwater?
4-So
Spicy
Speaking of FF10, I finished FF15 and it's probably my favorite one since 10. It's messy and uneven and beautiful, with one of the best FF casts in a bit. Once the story is over I lose all steam, so any post-game extras (and DLC) likely won't get done, but what was on offer in the main game was Good Stuff™, and I'm looking forward to FF16.
To be fair, talking underwater is not that hard when you use textboxes. They read each other's dialogue - that's my headcanon and I'm sticking to it.
(but seriously, one detail I loved about FFX is that only some characters could participate in underwater battles, a nice integration of narrative and mechanics making it clear that underwater brawling is not an universal skill)