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LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
Mario Sunshine has been converted to widescreen, but aside from that it's basically the same as it was on the Gamecube. I haven't found a review that talks about how the analogue GC triggers are emulated, so I assume the game uses one of the Switch's extra buttons to take care of that. Galaxy is also mostly unchanged, except you can spin jump using a button (fuck yes) and use gyro aiming on the controller to emulate the pointer if you want. I don't quite understand how you trigger the gyro aiming mode, maybe you have to hold down a button? Either way, I'm curious to try Galaxy with a pro controller to see how it plays. The Joycons are a little small and I don't particularly want to play the game with one in each hand.
You don't really "trigger" it, it's just there, like in the original.

And you have to recalibrate the cursor with R constantly.

Pro Controller does alright.

And as noted, FLUDD uses R and ZR for stationary and moving at full blast.

I think Mario Sunshine will fare better in a world where we have seven 3D Mario games to choose from, rather than only two. In 2002 it was saddled with being the follow-up to one of the most revolutionary video games of all time, after a six year wait. Now it's just an odd duck out, and a delightful one at that. I like it a lot.

Except for the blue coins. Those are terrible.
Yeah, being the only new 3D Mario for more than a decade didn't help at the time.

I am kind of shocked that so many reviewers are shocked that Nintendo didn't rework the entire camera system in Mario 64.

I don't think anything about the promotion for these ever implied anything beyond emulation with some tweaks to make the controls workable and the UI match the buttons on a Switch controller.

The inversion stuff is baffling, though. If they reversed it from the original game, surely there must be a way to enable an option to un-reverse it?

My question that I haven't seen a review address yet (not saying that it doesn't exist, only that I haven't seen it, if someone knows or has seen one please let me know): What's the situation with all the Galaxy motion-control mini-games? Are any of them just simplified to work with a control pad now, like how spin is just a button? If not, how do they control with the gyro?
Haven't gotten there yet, but since the menus are still motion controlled, I'm going to say "probably not."

If we're talking about the joy of merely moving Mario, Super Mario Sunshine is the one that is the most fun to me.
I can't stand that they took away most of his moves, particularly the long jump.
 

Lokii

It's always time for burgers
(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
You can spin jump wall jump hover all sorts of neat tricks

the levels are these playgrounds to bounce around in I dunno I think it's fun and cool

I like how the special stages take away your primary movement options and ask you to perform under a limitation. It feels pretty clumsy and punishing at first for sure, but as you get practiced at them you start feeling pretty cool at getting through them. It feels cool and good. Maybe this is why the "chucking into a pit" stage is so infamous as one of Sunshine's flaws, because you're at the mercy of this chucking guy in a way that has no bearing on how cool and good you're doing?

I don't understand why blue coins are so reviled. I seriously don't, I'm not trying to be cheeky! Someone please explain it to me. Aren't they little mini-challenges or rewards for getting to out of the way spots, invitations to explore? That's why it's a one-time coin reward and a, admitting annoying, save prompt indicating you've competed that mini-challenge. So... what's the issue here? Is it the save prompt?
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
It's because you have no idea if you've gotten them all in these huge levels. I want to get all the shines! Where's the three blue coins I missed in the entire game? No clue!
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Yeah, if you’re not trying to 100% the game they are fine. There are just annoying from a post game completionist perspective.
 

MetManMas

DNM-123
(He, him)
There's no real incentive to get all the Shines in Super Mario Sunshine, though. You get everything of interest just by playing and beating the game.

It really feels like the only reason the game has 120 Shines to collect is because Super Mario 64 had 120 Stars to collect.
 

muteKi

say "fish don't exist" to my face, motherfucker
I think another part of it is that some blue coins are, as I understand, locked to specific missions, and it's also not obvious which mission you need to go to for a specific blue coin.


I'm more annoyed at some of the island secret stars. I'm going to go ahead and guess that the lily pad one is as terrible as ever to access.
 

WildcatJF

I will not be stopping
(he / his / him)
If I play Sunshine it'll be a bare minimum run and I will not bother with blue coins or too many FLUDD-less levels because I hate them lol
 

Lokii

It's always time for burgers
(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
Those island secrets are hard and frustrating for sure. But don't they also exist in the same space as blue coins, in that they're optional? So the problems are interface, in that the game doesn't give you enough information about where the remaining blue coins are, or with unfair difficulty spikes, and both of these problems only really comes to bear in a 100% run. So if you aren't purposefully doing a 100% run, and aren't interested in the challenge the optional stages present, you can let them be and still satisfactorily complete the game. And if we recognize that 100% is a specific challenge that is going to require a higher level of effort, or engagement, or whatever you want to call it, it bears through that 100% will include parts that are annoying. I would say any 100% approach to a game would come with the expectation that you're in it for the long haul and there's going to be some bumpy road.

I want to interject and just say this isn't directed anyone here but is just in general how I feel about the whole "Sunshine is Bad" sentiment as embodied by the Polygon review "Super Mario 3D All-Stars review: Not even Sunshine can ruin this collection," the general sentiment that Sunshine was a mistake or is seriously flawed. I understand that it's an odd step in the Mario lineage, a step far enough from the trail to feel like a misstep. And the last thing I want to do is make anyone feel bad because the game didn't connect with them, feel like they're being reprimanded for having an unpleasant feeling experience. I've been there with many games myself. If the game just feels weird and doesn't connect with you, I get it. So please, if I'm going too far and coming across as judgey, let me know. I don't want to be that kind of person. However, I want to speak honestly to the way I think and see things, and sometimes I'm not sure if my language is matching my intentions. Also I find Sunshine to be a pretty interesting game. I am finding it frustrating as my interest keeps butting up against the dismissive sentiment regarding the game. And again, this frustration isn't aimed at anyone here, but at the situation in general.

When I see blanket statements about the game sucking in general, or criticisms aimed at bumpy optional content, I find them weighing far less on the scale than all the ways that Sunshine is an interesting step: the island environment, unique even then not only as a Mario platformer but for the whole genre; the attention to 3D movement, an exploration of how it might articulate and expand from 64's possibilities; the interest in how a 3D platfomer could express, with levels that can be seen from others and logical connections between them, and all other small, unique, and flavorful details that are infused throughout the game.

When I see a wealth of interesting and unique stuff casually dismissed over a couple of rough patches in optional content, I feel annoyed. Preciously when I see the optional content as a considered aspect of the design. Nintendo had a goal of making a game that would appeal to a large range of people. They knew that as the follow-up to Mario 64 there was going to be a big audience of a wide range of players, from people who had been playing Mario since the arcade to younger or inexperienced players whom perhaps this was their first Mario. So you have the base challenge of moving through the levels, getting the minimum amount of shines to progress, and defeating Bowser. There's some criticism that Mt. Corona is too basic and not difficult enough. This is why. It needs to be the cumulative stage of that base of level of minimum progression. Then past it you have this whole wealth of trickier content, including the special stars. I know the pachinko board and leaf stages have some physics that can make it feel like the outcome is out of your hands, and that isn't' fun, but I also see these stages as positioned in that high-skill level arena, and therefore can be understood as challenges to overcome. I think this includes the implication that these stages are going to require multiple attempts. If Nintendo didn't quite nail the difficulty of these high-end challenges, or didn't telegraph them enough, I think I can forgive them in the attempt. They clearly learned from the experience as they got better at delineating the base game, post-game, high-end tiers in later games.

I guess that comes around to why I like the game as a whole, because that step off the path wasn't a stumble, it was a deliberate striking out. That step could have been the first in a totally different direction for the series. As it turned out it was a bit too odd for enough people that Nintendo struck out in another unexpected direction which resulted in the wonderful Galaxy. That's the thing with striking out, you're not sure where it will take you. I think that there's something to be admired in Nintendo taking that choice, even if it didn't work for everyone. They were following up the revolutionary and beloved 64, and yet they still chose to step off the path. I'm happy they did.
 
There's a digital foundry video out now, if anyone is interested in an in depth comparison of how this emulation compares to the originals.

Nothing seems like a deal breaker for me, but everyone has their own things that bother them.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
Mario 64 seems to have literally no changes to it beyond the resolution bump
Apparently, it's the rumble-enabled version (which I have on cart, and is neat, I'm glad people will now be able to experience 64 with rumble).

I can see myself getting very annoyed that the FLUDD controls are not only no longer inverted, but there's apparently no way to change them back.
I was kind of excited to give Sunshine another chance, but since I'm still the weirdo who inverts look for everything on modern games, this will be a problem for me.
 

Kishi

Little Waves
(They/Them)
Staff member
Moderator
They also replaced textures in Super Mario 64 that were extremely blurry and low-res before. The HUD assets are immediately noticeable, but it also extends to some environments:





I feel it's worth pointing out in this example that they sourced the same Boo illustration. A lesser job would have replaced it with a distracting modern render of a Boo, but here it's the same thing, just nicer.
 

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
Mario's controversial line when throwing Bowser is also changed, since that version wouldn't have called him "Bowser."

There's no real incentive to get all the Shines in Super Mario Sunshine, though. You get everything of interest just by playing and beating the game.

It really feels like the only reason the game has 120 Shines to collect is because Super Mario 64 had 120 Stars to collect.
Anyone who has ever wanted to play as a canonical Captain Lou Mario might disagree.
 

Positronic Brain

Out Of Warranty
(He/him)
I got my copy! But I cannot play until my afternoon :(

Honestly, while the lack of control mapping is a bummer, is not as if I was expecting Nintendo not to Nintendo. That's why I adjusted my expectations - all I want is portable Galaxy, everything else is gravy.
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
The spin attack in Super Mario Galaxy is mapped to the Y button in this release.
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
Oh well that's nice. How do you control the pointer, is it just always on screen? That seems like it would be distracting.
It works a lot like the cursor in Skyward Sword. Pressing the R button re-centers the cursor, and the accelerometer moves it. When a cutscene plays or the camera shifts significantly, or if you don't do anything with it for long enough, the cursor goes away. When playing in handheld mode, the cursor is controlled by touch.
 

madhair60

Video games
Playing this today I had this odd moment where it sort of sank on that, hang on, I'm playing Mario Galaxy, Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 in one package with near-instantaneous loading, and people aren't happy with this!?
 

MCBanjoMike

Infamous third lava dolphin
(He/him)
Playing this today I had this odd moment where it sort of sank on that, hang on, I'm playing Mario Galaxy, Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 in one package with near-instantaneous loading, and people aren't happy with this!?
I will absolutely play the collection and be happy doing so, but as a product I think there are some glaring issues. The one that I really can't forgive is the limited window to buy the compilation, even digitally. It's bad for consumers, it's bad for game preservation and there's no good reason for it aside that Nintendo thinks it will make them the most money this way. Other than that, I feel like the absence of Galaxy 2 is a big issue because Galaxy 1 feels incomplete to me without it. Maybe they'll make it available separately in 6 months, in which case that's fine. But with Nintendo, who the heck knows? Finally, you get to all the stuff that they could have done, and that's not something I can get as heated about. But you have to admit that it would have been wonderful to see concept art galleries, interviews on the development of these games, or maybe even some modes that implement cut content. These games are both important and really good, so it's a shame that they didn't go the extra mile to really celebrate Mario's history. Does that make what's in the package bad? Not really, but it's super easy to imagine a better version of this compilation.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Has anybody tried to remap the controls for Mario Sunshine at a system level yet so they're inverted? I won't be able to test if it's possible until like 5:30 EST and I'm curious...
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Has anybody tried to remap the controls for Mario Sunshine at a system level yet so they're inverted? I won't be able to test if it's possible until like 5:30 EST and I'm curious...
Can confirm this isn't possible.
 
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