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Days like these make me happy I emulate stuff. All the "improvements" of this collection are things that already exist in emulation, with none of the drawbacks.
 

MCBanjoMike

Infamous third lava dolphin
(He/him)
Now now, Nintendo knows best. They knew it was best to force them to be inverted in 2002, and now they know best to force them to not be inverted in 2020.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
According to GameXplain at least. I just can't get my head around non-inverted, it's going to drive me potty.
Yeah, that will literally be unplayable to me. I'm not even exaggerating. What the hell, man
 

Lokii

It's always time for burgers
(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
I think Mario Sunshine will fare better in a world where we have seven 3D Mario games to choose from, rather than only two. In 2002 it was saddled with being the follow-up to one of the most revolutionary video games of all time, after a six year wait.
Going by the Polygon review, people are not inclined to be any more favorable in 2020. Guy savaged Sunshine, stating that it "feels bad" in nebulous terms, and that it is "filled with mistakes" (no examples given).
 

madhair60

Video games
Create a system-level control profile for Sunshine that inverts the sticks I guess? I think that's possible, might be wrong. Not that it shouldn't be an option in the game, but it can be remedied by the Switch's control mapping functionality. I think. Maybe.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Create a system-level control profile for Sunshine that inverts the sticks I guess? I think that's possible, might be wrong. Not that it shouldn't be an option in the game, but it can be remedied by the Switch's control mapping functionality. I think. Maybe.
I will try this as soon as I get the game and report back, thank you for reminding me it's a thing
 

Sprite

(He/Him/His)
Ugh, non-inverted FLUDD controls will probably kill Sunshine for me as well. Why does Nintendo do this.
 

4-So

False is the dawn that promises anything
To be fair, Sunshine already felt bad and was filled with mistakes. A great-looking game that's terrible to play.

Looking forward to playing original 64 again. Last time I touched 64 was when the DS version came out and it left me pretty cold.
 
I am kind of shocked that so many reviewers are shocked that Nintendo didn't rework the entire camera system in Mario 64.

I don't think anything about the promotion for these ever implied anything beyond emulation with some tweaks to make the controls workable and the UI match the buttons on a Switch controller.

The inversion stuff is baffling, though. If they reversed it from the original game, surely there must be a way to enable an option to un-reverse it?

My question that I haven't seen a review address yet (not saying that it doesn't exist, only that I haven't seen it, if someone knows or has seen one please let me know): What's the situation with all the Galaxy motion-control mini-games? Are any of them just simplified to work with a control pad now, like how spin is just a button? If not, how do they control with the gyro?
 

MCBanjoMike

Infamous third lava dolphin
(He/him)
I am kind of shocked that so many reviewers are shocked that Nintendo didn't rework the entire camera system in Mario 64.
Really? I mean, I wasn't expecting much from this port, but the camera controls for Mario 64 are dire and clearly the thing that most needs fixing about that game. I actually have some thoughts about why it would be really difficult to modernize Mario 64, but making the camera better is probably possible and it certainly could stand doing. This is why people like Patrick Klepek are so disappointed with these ports - they're really bare bones, and not a fitting tribute to such an important game series. Crappy camera controls won't stop me from buying them again, but I could see how a lot of people just wouldn't have the patience for it at this point.
 
Yes. Note that "I am shocked that they are shocked," not "I am shocked that they are disappointed."

I'm not saying it wouldn't be great if they were improved, only that no expectations were set that they would be. That's just not what the project ever looked like. These are clearly emulations with some tweaks. They're not going to create a new camera system in a project on this scale. Doing that right would be a substantially bigger task than anything else happening here.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
To be fair, Sunshine already felt bad and was filled with mistakes. A great-looking game that's terrible to play.
It's nowhere near terrible to play, come on. Blue coins suck, and that's about it. Game plays wonderfully imo, I love FLUDD.
 

Issun

Could be a fren
It's nowhere near terrible to play, come on. Blue coins suck, and that's about it. Game plays wonderfully imo, I love FLUDD.
One caveat: Blooper racing killed Sunshine for me, and I haven't been back to the game since. It was so bad that when it popped up in Galaxy I almost shut the game off. I gave it a chance, though, and was amazed at how much better the controls were. I think the course was designed better, too, though.
 

muteKi

say "fish don't exist" to my face, motherfucker
It's funny in the context of a literal complete source port of Mario 64 that is being put on things like 3DS and PS2 and has already gotten several notable modding enhancements.

How is FLUDD controlled? Is there any sort of point-to-aim system happening given the lack of analog trigger controls for firing? How is firing-while-running done vs. firing while standing still?
 
How is firing-while-running done vs. firing while standing still?
In reviews I've seen it described that in place of analog buttons there are now two buttons, creating two options: Full blast while standing still, or full blast while running. Presumably this makes some precision control moments a bit more complicated. (Ideally you would probably want at least a low-mid power 3rd option, in my opinion, if there are enough buttons to allow it...)
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
One caveat: Blooper racing killed Sunshine for me, and I haven't been back to the game since. It was so bad that when it popped up in Galaxy I almost shut the game off. I gave it a chance, though, and was amazed at how much better the controls were. I think the course was designed better, too, though.
I don't remember if it shows up later in the game (I'm sure it does and might be impossible at that point, can't remember), but I played the red coins shine with the Bloopers and the race indoors in Ricco Harbor two weeks ago and had a good time. It's not easy, but it's not the fricking manta ray motion control nonsense from Galaxy, at least
 

4-So

False is the dawn that promises anything
It's nowhere near terrible to play, come on. Blue coins suck, and that's about it. Game plays wonderfully imo, I love FLUDD.
This where we will agree to disagree. I spent about 10 hours with the game when it was released and threw my hands up. I actively dislike FLUDD.

The music and aesthetics are aces, though. Great visuals, very bright and cheery, which I always appreciate; catchy tunes. But playing it? Oof.
 

clarice

bebadosamba
If we're talking about the joy of merely moving Mario, Super Mario Sunshine is the one that is the most fun to me. I also love the setting. Of course, personal opinion, etc.

I also played it last year with my nephew and he loved it. His ranking of Mario games (he's 8 years old): Odyssey, Sunshine, 64, Galaxy 1, Galaxy 2. (I've never played any of the 2D games with him.)
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
It's nowhere near terrible to play, come on. Blue coins suck, and that's about it. Game plays wonderfully imo, I love FLUDD.
I mean I like Sunshine, but the camera could have been better, and I prefer 64 and Galaxy’s “You need X amount of stars to reach the final area” design over the more obscured requirements needed to reach the end in Sunshine. And yeah, I’d rather do all the purple coins and comets in Galaxy again over the blue coins in Sunshine.

Mine still hasn’t shipped. I’m getting antsy here...
 

muteKi

say "fish don't exist" to my face, motherfucker
God, I could probably spend forever just talking about the purple coins in Galaxy and how great they are
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Sunshine was one of those games that rewarded me for not being a completionist because of the Blue Coins.

The FLUDD-less levels, though... hoo boy
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I like the FLUDD-less levels too lol. My main problem with them is if you're having a tough time and you run out of lives, you have to make your way back to the "entrance." That sucks. They should have got rid of the lives system by the time they made Sunshine.
 

muteKi

say "fish don't exist" to my face, motherfucker
I wish I liked the Fludd-less levels more than I do. Something about most of them just doesn't feel right in the movement. Like the camera is either too far out or too close so it's hard to be precise or situated well when jumping.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Bearing in mind I haven't actually played Sunshine since it came out, I think the problem for me was more that the platforming was built around the added mobility that FLUDD offered you, so yanking off those extra abilities really messed me up
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
People dislike the FLUDD-less levels? I'm surprised, they were my favorite part of the game. They are basically 3D Land style levels, and were really fun and felt new, bach than.
 

Patrick

Magic-User
(He/Him)
I remember the FLUDDless areas being a highlight, too.

Anyway, Sunshine is a really great game with a few rough spots. I’m glat that a lot of folks are going to be able to play it for the first time.
 

muteKi

say "fish don't exist" to my face, motherfucker
Maybe if I'd played sunshine before galaxy I'd have found myself having a higher opinion, but I agree that the scale of the game in almost all circumstances is mostly balanced around the sort of space-clearing abilities that fludd gives you. I think that's why the camera doesn't feel right there, because it's still at fludd scale without fludd.
 
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