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muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
Anyway as far as the whole "who actually wrote this music" question goes, the reason that I think we should credit it all to Buxer comes down to this interview with Buxer himself (the most relevant bits are around 45 minutes in, per comments on the video):


Brad Buxer's interview here states that while Sega and MJ had the deal, MJ's scandals in 1993 took a toll on him and led him to pass the work on to Buxer. Stranger in Moscow started out from Buxer playing the song as an example of what his work for it sounded like, and they adapted it into a song but only MJ got credit for it.
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
The short of it is: Buxer was the main one actually tasked with composing cues, and he delegated some work to others in MJ's circle, including Doug Grigsby, et al. Aside from Cirocco being credited as "Scirocco" (which is how the word the name is derived from is typically spelled in English), the credits should adequately reflect the compositions in question, though obviously relatively little of their work was included.

At least one of them when attempted to be interviewed about the matter seemed to imply some sort of a pending lawsuit about some combination of credit and royalties, though I can't recall off the top of my head if it was Buxer, Cirocco, or someone else and I'm not prepared to try to find it right now. It was not the MJ estate. It's possible the matter may have at some point been settled with an NDA leading to nobody being able to talk about it, and we wouldn't know for sure. No idea if the credits in Sonic 3 here in Origins have been at all modified, but I'm personally not in the least bit bothered by people who actually did work getting credit even if their efforts weren't part of the final product.

In that respect I feel bad for the composers at Cube, who only got a company credit (and even then, only as "sound special thanks" rather than a composer credit!). Folks like Miyako Takaoka (composer of Marble Garden) receive no personal credit and very few of them have known authorship. However, there are at least no known legal issues with the music.
 

madhair60

Video games
Sonic Origins is out and obviously I already have the S Ranks in the Sonic 1 missions (excepting the EX DLC missions which are stupidly hard)

I am not "good" at Sonic and comfortably S-ranked all of them so don't fret
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
Not yet for Steam in the US, sadly... I've still got to wait. I am however watching someone play through it very badly in the background in order to nitpick details. No idea if anniversary mode has time overs or not, though you'd think the guy playing was doing his damndest to find out
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
Goodness. They've really tweaked the way lost rings bounce around, haven't they.
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
Despite what people may have suggested you DO play with a 2P Tails in Sonic 2 and 3. Collection redeemed of its flaws.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
I don't know if my laptop is just very bad at this game, but given that it plays tunic beautifully and can't even make it through the menus here, I'm assuming this game's optimization is fucking garbage.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
We're talking the intro animatic running at 1 frame per second.
Picking menu options taking for fucking ever.
This is unacceptable.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
Wow, this is sounding like the Tetris Ultimate mess all over again. I'm wondering if BEAT needs to change his settings, or if the game just hates his particular hardware set-up. He's right, of course... thirty year old Genesis games should not be running like dog doo on a modern computer. That SNK collection from a few years back had similar issues. The games ran fine, but the interface should have ran more smoothly and responded more quickly to the player's input. Whether on an Xbox One or a PC, it felt disconcertingly... constipated.
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
By the way if you're wondering where the time attack mode is, that's what "my data and rankings" is under the museum. I'm not sure why that isn't part of the mission mode menus and just let the museum menu options be sound, music, and video. Ah well. My new nitpick is that the Sonic Jam videos aren't part of this collection, but then neither is Sonic World so I can only grouse so much before sounding like a complete loon.

I don't know if my laptop is just very bad at this game, but given that it plays tunic beautifully and can't even make it through the menus here, I'm assuming this game's optimization is fucking garbage.
The main menus are shockingly bad, though the game's mostly ok once I actually start a game. I get some performance out of it by dropping the resolution to 720p but I genuinely don't understand what about them is so intensive. The game islands are nice but they're not that nice, y'know?

Sorry, what's this mean, exactly?
Tails shows up in story mode for Sonic 2 and 3, which means that you have access to the paths that require Tails to access. When I heard "story mode is Sonic only" I assumed that meant no 2P Tails, which is not the case, thankfully.
 
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madhair60

Video games
Man, I'm not liking this and I hate that I'm not liking it. If I told you why I'm not liking it you'd tell me not to be so stupid, too.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I dunno, I have a bunch of nitpicks (I've only played to Labyrinth Zone on Sonic 1 so far in Anniversary mode). As you mentioned on Twitter, Stu, you can't hurt the bosses as they enter the screen like in the original versions of the game, so you have to hit the Green Hill Zone boss eight times with his ball out. Also, the floating platforms aren't up against the edges of the screen, so you can actually fall off them if you jump on them with too much momentum - meaning my 30 years of muscle memory of hitting the boss and letting momentum get me to the top of the platform annoyingly requires precision now. Also Sonic bounces off the bosses oddly, too - in Marble Zone, he doesn't bounce hard off the boss, which would allow you to hit him and then safely return to the platform you jumped off like in the original version. It's not like the bosses are hard, so these are nitpicks, but still, why change that?

Also the Sonic 1 special stages with super smooth rotation feels weirddddddddd
 

Sprite

(He/Him/His)
Huh, I didn’t think about how widescreen would screw up the bosses.

I’ll probably still pick this up at some point but I’m in no hurry.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
The main menus are shockingly bad, though the game's mostly ok once I actually start a game. I get some performance out of it by dropping the resolution to 720p but I genuinely don't understand what about them is so intensive. The game islands are nice but they're not that nice, y'know?
I genuinely can't even get to the point where I can START the game

This laptop is a Gaming with a capital G laptop. It's less than a year old.

I don't know what they did wrong, but they fucked up something FIERCE and I'm probably just gonna get a steam refund.

I can deal with frame rate dips and choppy cutscenes, but I can't accept wait times measured in actual seconds to flick between menu options when it doesn't just crash back to windows entirely, which is what it has done the last two times I tried it.
 
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BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
Man, I'm not liking this and I hate that I'm not liking it. If I told you why I'm not liking it you'd tell me not to be so stupid, too.
Hard disagree. Tiny changes can screw up everything and they ESPECIALLY matter in cases like this where preservation of the beloved original is kind of the entire fucking point.
 

madhair60

Video games
Hard disagree. Tiny changes can screw up everything and they ESPECIALLY matter in cases like this where preservation of the beloved original is kind of the entire fucking point.

Mm. I guess I'm still reeling from a discussion elsewhere suggesting that it's ridiculous to be upset by the music changes, so minor mechanical differences being shared as a negative thing felt like they'd be met with similar criticism.

Here's the thing, OK. And I have never said this, because I knew people would rip on me, lol. But, like... why the fuck does Sonic need to be widescreen. What does it add to the game, which was perfect. Why does it need to be widescreen, what about that makes the game better. I don't understand.
 

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
Yeah, honestly, as someone who has never been obsessed with "oh this has to be the same again", I kind of thought the widescreen option would be a great change of pace to see how that changes things in interesting ways. But then the talk of Green Hill Zone boss got me thinking about how so many of the Sonic boss arenas are subtly engineered to an exact width... and now I have concerns. I am imagining the Oil Ocean or Chemical Plant bosses, and experiencing low level anxiety.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
A fast game like Sonic probably profits from showing you more of what you are running towards.

Just as a suggestion, which might be wrong (have not played the game, I'm mainly interested in the reactions here, and how it works - I hope well, I like Sonic). It's perfectly valid, to be irritated by this changes. And that it changes the boss room layouts is probably not worth the tradeoff.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
The boss changes are my only issue with the widescreen stuff, they just feel wrong so far. Otherwise, it's nice to be able to see more of what's ahead otherwise, though, especially for games I don't have memorized (which, in this collection, is admittedly only Sonic CD). It does make the games quite a bit easier, though I would argue they weren't especially difficult to begin with so I don't care all that much. Widescreen does make the games feel slightly different, though, and I can see why it'd be a turn off.
 

Lokii

Administrator
(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
Does the classic mode (or whatever it's called with the original screen resolution) also use the original mechanics like bopping robotic 1 early?

Weird mechanical oddities like that might be a result of the game running natively in the hardware rather than through an emulation wrapper or something. I donno.
 
This sounds pretty bad. Has anyone experienced bugs like this? From the GameSpot review.

But even the recreations of the games themselves have some issues, with strange bugs that weren't present in the originals. Partner-Tails in Sonic 2 has a bad habit of getting stuck in places and trying desperately to reach you for a very long time before his "fly back to Sonic" routine kicks in, leading to stages filled with the obnoxious background noise of constant jumping and spin-dashing. Some of the transitions in Sonic 3 & Knuckles don't quite work right--I got stuck at the transition to Sandopolis 2 and could only proceed after pressing the options button. And something about the death/respawn checkpoint system in S3&K feels really off: I've had multiple instances where I'd die and not [sic?] respawn at the stage start rather than a checkpoint I'd touched, or respawn with a shield intact after a pit or crushing death, and even see a good chunk of a stage's checkpoints marked as touched before I even encountered them.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Oh wow, wild, I haven't made it that far yet, I'll play more after work. Sonic 1, weird quirks above aside, feels good otherwise, and I haven't noticed any weird bugs yet.
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
Also the Sonic 1 special stages with super smooth rotation feels weirddddddddd
The motion is completely different in them. Strategies for letting the stages basically move you without touching the controls no longer work because the rotation is paced completely differently -- it's not just that the rotation is smooth, its pace is completely different too. I don't like it.

This sounds pretty bad. Has anyone experienced bugs like this?

Every stream of the story mode or S2/3 on their own had this issue. Tails getting stuck is a very easy bug to trigger. I am astounded at the kind of distances away from Sonic that Tails can be without being respawned.
 

WildcatJF

Mysterious Ghost World
(he / his / him)
Sounds like I should sit on this a while and hope it gets some kinks ironed out via patches.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
The motion is completely different in them. Strategies for letting the stages basically move you without touching the controls no longer work because the rotation is paced completely differently -- it's not just that the rotation is smooth, its pace is completely different too. I don't like it.

Yeah, now that you mention it, you're right - I admit I never knew about the "don't touch the controls" thing, but it's not just the rotation, the physics of everything is off, too. Like Sonic can now fit between two diamond things in the Sonic 1 special stages, when he couldn't before - you'd have to clear two blocks to get through a space, now he can fit through one. Problem is, even changing the colors of the diamonds feels different, too, like they're harder to hit or they have a smaller hitbox or something.
 
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