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Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
It's bad that these games are getting delisted. However, Sonic CD is not worth getting upset over, as that game is shitty (hi stu)
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
Honestly the '11 release of CD had a number of significant bugs that were never patched (speed shoes in original physics didn't work right, most notably) but were patched in mobile. Having this release update Sonic CD to where those bugs are fixed is good even if it comes at the expense of the previous release being officially a lost cause
 

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
It's bad that these games are getting delisted. However, Sonic CD is not worth getting upset over, as that game is shitty (hi stu)
boo-boo-this-man.gif
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
You realize that Amy Rose from Sonic Adventure is actually twelve? Not even a teenager yet. There's just something about the way these characters look, act, and sound, and the weight on their shoulders in regards to saving the world, that made me age them up five years mentally. I mean, holy hell, Tails is twelve and not only flies his own biplane, but builds and repairs them. Not even a genius twelve year old, man. And Knuckles is sixteen? Did he ever "read" as sixteen to you, because he sure as hell doesn't to me. (Dumb as a sixteen year old, though.)
 
It doesn't make sense to me, but that's just the way Japanese fiction works.

In anime, the main characters, with detailed motivations and strong personal convictions, are 16. The old general with a grey beard and scars is 30.

And there's always a scene where the girl prepares a bento box for the boy and it tastes REALLY BAD.
 

Ghost from Spelunker

BAG
(They/Him)
I think they were going for "appealing to the young'uns" with the age thingy. Just look at the children's clothes section of any store, Sonic shirts galore.
And if they had the actual skills & minds of their ages you'd have a bunch of animals with the abilities of the kids from Chibi Maruko Chan or Ernie Pook's Comeek, not gonna be able to stop Robotnik like that.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
You realize that Amy Rose from Sonic Adventure is actually twelve? Not even a teenager yet. There's just something about the way these characters look, act, and sound, and the weight on their shoulders in regards to saving the world, that made me age them up five years mentally. I mean, holy hell, Tails is twelve and not only flies his own biplane, but builds and repairs them. Not even a genius twelve year old, man. And Knuckles is sixteen? Did he ever "read" as sixteen to you, because he sure as hell doesn't to me. (Dumb as a sixteen year old, though.)
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
I'm doing a project on elderly Sonic the Hedgehog characters. If you've been in Sonic stuff and you're over 25, please contact me
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
Famitsu livestream of Sonic Origins, if you're the sort of person to be as anal-retentive about the series as I am.


Some things I note:
- No lives in anniversary mode. Coins (for unlocking stuff in the museum mode) are counted instead. Not sure if dying loses coins (see futher below). In non-original modes (including missions) 1-up monitors increase coin count by 1 instead. Continues, appropriately, increase the count by 3.
- I think if any game could have used graphical retouching, it's Sonic 3 with its dither-heavy art, but it doesn't seem to have been tweaked.
- S3 music also doesn't seem to have cleaner percussion samples I've come to expect from source ports a la the S1&2 mobile remakes.
- The rotation speed in anniversary mode Sonic 1's special stage is the same as the mobile port and therefore IMO bad.
- They (go figure) screw up the special stage on the stream, and (as has been mentioned before) have the option to spend a coin to retry it.
- Knuckles and Tails mode in Sonic 2, but no 'classic heroes' mode, as much as I'd have appreciated that.
- The new cutscenes are nice but (as I believe was already noted), only seem to occur between games in the marathon mode.
- Sonic CD intro has its lyrics intact, thank goodness.
- The Sonic CD time warp sound effect is in stereo once again!
- Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles don't have different entries, so I'm not clear on how to load one over the other. Oddly, S3K anniversary uses the Sonic 3 intro music rather than S&K
- Mirror mode might use the same saves in S3K as normal mode, so it may be the way I replay this game. Screws with me just enough that it almost, almost feels like playing the game for the first time again, god what a feeling that way.
- BLUE SPHERES (always an important mode, as anyone who experimented with S&K lock-on can attest)
- It's nice to see some representation of Spinball and 3D Blast in the islands even if neither game is available here, though I would absolutely put money toward a similar remake of 3D Blast, especially if it is more accurate to the Saturn version than the old PC port was (which, for the record, only requires minor tweaks to be playable on a modern PC with a modern OS, i.e., Win 10)
- Sonic CD and Sonic 3's menus show up in the classic mode, so that's how you would access SCD's time attack. Oddly, this suggests that no time attack modes appear in Sonic 1 and 2, despite their mobile ports including them, unless they're missions. Boss rush modes do exist.
- Unsurprisingly, boss rush mode does use a life count. Surprisingly, the demonstration in Sonic CD gives the player no rings.
- Despite boss rush mode, there are no indications of a special stage rush, which were a feature in Sonic Jam. I'm the only one who cares, I'm sure.
- Sonic 2 multiplayer does feature the expanded stage list a la the mobile ports, but is probably local multiplayer only (fine by me). Surprisingly, coins replace lives in this mode in annversary too, though I personally am not offended by this change. Player death did not decrease the coin count in this mode.
- Oddly, Sonic CD has a separate intro and outro for the marathon mode from the opening and ending as seen in the video collection.
- Although modders have introduced Knuckles into Sonic CD, he's not playable in this release. I'm sure someone will mod him in.
- Anybody who owned Sonic & Knuckles Collection will recognize the art from the Sonic Screen Saver, which I believe was originally drawn for use in a specific Sega promotional magazine.

Oh yeah, and speaking of modding, apparently the music for Sonic 3 will be based on the prototype soundtrack but re-arranged (still for Genesis) by Jun Senoue based on other reports, so the music that is from the cartridge will have to be modded in for people to listen to. This incarnation of the RetroSonic engine will not be as trivial to decompile as the mobile ports' engine was, so it may be a while. Well, Sonic 3 AIR is still awesome.
 
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Thanks for typing this up! I like the idea of using a coin to retry special stages. Maybe I'll finally get all the chaos emeralds...

I've always bounced off of Sonic CD. I know it's probably not that complicated, but the time travel thing is confusing and restrictive enough to take the fun out for me. Maybe I'll give it one more try in the Marathon mode.

Sonic 3 music will be missed! Ice Cap Zone is one of my favorite VGM tracks.
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
My thought on Sonic CD is that the time travel isn't really necessary and the underlying tech changes make the special stages play better (if you even want the good ending); I've also played the game through enough times that I know where all the good warp zones are and the associated enemy generators. But I have no idea how the collectables will be integrated -- after all, when they split off Sonic & Knuckles into its own game, they gave us two sets of emeralds. Perhaps, per the normal endings of S1, etc. we just have the emeralds fly off to be re-collected.
 
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LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
- Despite boss rush mode, there are no indications of a special stage rush, which were a feature in Sonic Jam. I'm the only one who cares, I'm sure.
I really, really just want a way to play the Sonic CD Special Stages by themselves to my heart's desire.
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
I really, really just want a way to play the Sonic CD Special Stages by themselves to my heart's desire.
Good news: that has been a feature available since the initial release, as long as you beat every normal stage in time attack with a total best time of 30 minutes or less.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
Thank you for effortpost muteki.

That's a lot of REALLY WEIRD changes I generally disagree with, but it's not like I don't still have classic heroes and S3 complete to play so wtfever I guess.
 

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
Good news: that has been a feature available since the initial release, as long as you beat every normal stage in time attack with a total best time of 30 minutes or less.
Okay, to clarify: a way to do it easily.

That was the point of this entire stream, and we didn't quite make it.


And honestly, I'm not sure when I can put in the kind of time to "get gud" enough to actually pull it off.

Meanwhile, every other game has a stage select cheat or just slap literally any other Genesis game into it to play their Special Stages, and I don't like any of those nearly as much...

Yes, I'm a little salty over the whole thing. I just want to sit back and vibe out to the awesome music and alien backgrounds, but apparently that's too much to ask...
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why

Features some snippets of the newly-redone Sonic 3 tracks, and to be honest, I'm disappointed. Carnival Night is a significant step back from the 1993 prerelease version.

I mean I've had a copy of Sonic & Knuckles collection that dates back to the Windows XP era. I'm familiar with these songs and they're as much a part of my experience with the game as the original release tracks are. But I never fully appreciated them until I heard the prototype arrangements, which despite having a few obvious issues to them (loop points not set correctly, for example) tended to sound much better. These were fixed with some minimal tweaking by the people who dump the sound drivers for these games.

Some of the distinctions here come from the low-pass filter being used (I would be willing to believe these new arrangements have been recorded off real systems) and I'm OK with that, but one thing I like about the remasters has been that they include much cleaner percussion samples, and this release...might not have that then? Weird.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
Huh, I'd totally forgotten about the Michael Jackson thing. These all sound really awful and muffled to me, and don't have the distinctive melodies or levels or brightness (sorry, sound engineering isn't my thing so I don't have the vocabulary) of the originals. It somehow reminds me of Game Boy music.

Launch Base Zone Act 1 is passable I suppose, but to not have Ice Cap is insane. I will admit it's interesting that these are the prototype tracks, nice bit of history, but oof. They should have added "we'll put in the effort to get the rights to the good music" into their tier charts.

I was already going back and forth on getting this since I already own these games, now it's moved firmly into "wait until it's on sale for $5 or less two years from now".
 

Patrick

Magic-User
(He/Him)
I've never played Sonic 3 or CD, and I never got very far in Sonic 1. Really, I've played way more of the Game Gear and GBA Sonic games than the Genesis ones. So, this is on my radar. I might wait for a sale though.
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
By the way an IGN upload features several minutes of each of the games.


Given that the Sonic 1 and 2 ports this is based on have had remastered music (which, in comparison to the recordings here, is less authentic -- those ports remastered the audio and even went so far as to replace the noise channel from the PSG chip with some hi-hat samples but here it's just clean versions of the game audio, like something like SMPSPlay might put out), the fact that Sonic 3's music in the anniversary release appears to have been directly recorded from a console is jarring.

Huh, I'd totally forgotten about the Michael Jackson thing.

Everyone says MJ but I put down these tracks pretty much exclusively to Brad Buxer; certainly of the three Ice Cap's the song that we can most directly chart the lineage to, and it's a very close replication of a song from an old band Buxer was in back in the 80s (whereas, say, Carnival Night samples Jam in a way that should be able to clear copyright issues due to how short the clip is). I even have the single release from a couple years back, which is now a very funny thing to own.

I mean there's a possibility that the MJ estate may want to clear rights to the Jam sample and I wouldn't wish negotiating with them on my worst enemy. But I'm not convinced they have anything to do with the lack of music here.
 
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muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why

The blue spheres music doesn't accelerate along with the stage

Sickening. Can't believe they'd dare to release it in a state like this. Horrifying. 0/10, worst game ever
 
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