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Oh! Emperor Vandole is a DOG. - Let's Uncover the Secret of Mana!

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  #151  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:25 PM
Sky Render Sky Render is offline
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I think she already told you, Tomato!

Elinee: No need to pout, my pretty. All I did was send him to the ruins in Pandora. My magic didn't seem to be working too well on him. He's unusually resistant... Thanatos found that curious, so I snet the kid to Pandora so he can check it out himself.
Tomato: Who's Thanatos?
Elinee: He's the head of a secret organization that intends to overthrow the Kingdom.
Tomato: Ridiculous... how could you possibly overcome the entire army of Pandora?
{I think he already has, Tomato!}
Elinee: Tee, hee, hee! It's really quite easy, my dear. Sir Thanatos has already drained the energy from most of the foolish people in Pandora. All that's left is for Tanatos to storm the castle from the ruins with his new loyal subjects.
Boss: No! Sir Jema could be killed...!
Elinee: Speaking of death...would you kindly feed yourselves to my cute little pet, Spikey?


That's a negative, lady.



Then she beats her chest a bit and a door opens. I don't like where this is going...



♪♪ Crisis ♪♪

Say hello to Spiky Tiger, aka. The Hardest Boss in Secret of Mana. That's not saying a lot, granted...



Spiky Tiger is the hardest boss in Secret of Mana mostly because he can do this. Whenever he wants, ST can jump into the air and dive-bomb your entire party. This almost always results in at least one and sometimes as many as three allies knocked unconscious.



His other big gimmick is that he can jump on these platforms, meaning he can only be hit by ranged weapons (ie. boomerang and bow) until he gets down from them. In a way, it's a relief when he does jump up there since it means he won't be dive-bombing your party for a little bit.



The only problem is that he'll always use Fire Breath up there! Fire Breath doesn't do massive damage (actually, few of Spiky Tiger's attacks do much damage on their own; it's the FREQUENCY of damage dealt that hurts!), but it does cause Engulfed status. When engulfed in flames, a character is effectively poisoned and immobilized both, making it significantly worse than either poison or unconscious.



This is why I had to stock up on Angel's Grails. That said, only one was needed for the entire fight, and almost at the end of it. Though I did use all the candy. Spiky Tiger hits...! Well, not hard, but often!



In the end, he succumbs as all other bosses do and explodes in a horrible fireball of death and destruction followed by an oval-shaped particle spread.



Our just reward for the fight: an upgrade for the boomerang! Sweet. Better make sure we stop by Watts' shop later...



♪♪ Calm Before the Storm ♪♪

THIS is what I think of you siccing your tiger on me, lady!



Yeah, that's what I thought.



You are the lamest witch ever.

But when they withered, I was desperate to find a way to keep my power alive by any means. Thanatos appeared and offered me his power if I helped him "persuade" people to join him. But the lust for power blinded me to what was really happening... From now on, I'll simply be a normal elderly lady, and live peacefully. If you're looking for that other kid, he's at the ruins, south of Pandora.

It's nice to see that killing her pet tiger was all it took to get her to revise her ethical stance. I wish that worked in real life. Yeah, we'd have a lot of dead pet cats, but we'd also have a lot less corrupt corporate CEOs.



Where the hell did THOSE come from? Chests outta nowhere!

Boss: Could you please get rid of the lava blocking the path to the Underground Palace?
Elinee: You need to use the magic of ice on that orb near the entrance.
{There's an orb there? I had no idea!} But I just don't have enough magical power left to do it... I'm sorry.

Bugger. Oh well, at least we know what's needed to progress: the power of ice magic! Now then, we have a date with two treasure chests!
  #152  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:29 PM
Sky Render Sky Render is offline
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...LAAAAAAAAAAME.



Sweet! Looks like we've got us a whip now! Time to whip it (whip it good)!



♪♪ Fond Memories ♪♪

Suits me fine. Not like we have any other pressing matters to attend to, right?

*A voice sounds telepathically!*
Boss... Can you hear me? Come immediately to the Water Palace!
Boss: That was Luka! NOW what's the matter? I'm sorry everyone, but I've got to go find out...
Tomato: I... I understand. Tell you what, how about I go with you to the Water Palace? I'm worried about Dyluck, but I can't save him alone. I'll accompany you, and in return you can help me rescue Dyluck in Pandora later.
*Percy does his creepy jack-in-the-box laugh*
Percy: Yipee!!! I'm coming along! You can count on me, Boss!


Yay go team? I'm actually kinda surprised that Tomato didn't say "no, we're going to Pandora, move your butt or lose it". I guess even she can be rational sometimes.



♪♪ In the Thick of It ♪♪

The whip is, amazingly enough, the longest-range weapon in the entire game. Yep, it even beats out the bow. See how far out that sucker goes? Every last pixel of that sprite is pure pain for anything in its path. The downside is that it's finnicky as hell to aim the whip, as anyone who's played a recent CastleVania game starring a Belmont can attest to.



After slaying a completely-out-of-place Buzz Bee on the way back, the trio decide to try the shortcut with their newfound whip. It's super effective and takes them exactly where they need to be as a kicker!



♪♪ A Silent Prayer ♪♪

At the Water Palace, Luka gives us the lowdown.

Her protective seal on this palace has failed, and I fear she may be in great danger! Normally I'd ask Jema to take care of this, but he still hasn't returned from Pandora... Please, Boss! Find out if Undine is alright!

Man, everyone wants to make Boss their whipping boy these days. Also, are you really surprised that a side-effect of letting Boss draw all of the power of water-based magic in the entire world into his sword is causing water-based magic elsewhere in the world to stop working as well? Come on, Luka! I thought you were smarter than this!



♪♪ In the Thick of It ♪♪

Whatever, let's continue on. This new area sports a new enemy type: the GallfishIffish! These enemies cannot be knocked down, only stunned, and are of course damage-immune when stunned. They also hit pretty hard compared to anything else we've fought recently, so it's generally a good idea to go with the stun-and-run method at the moment.



Inside the cave is a heart-shaped egg!



And inside the egg is a Biting Lizard SpawnTonpole! This little cutie can't really do much, and takes an awful lot of abuse before...



What's this!? Tonpole is evolving!



♪♪ Crisis ♪♪

Tonpole has become Biting Lizard!



As you may have guessed from the music change, the fight REALLY begins now! The Biting Lizard has only one attack: eating your party members and spitting them out. This is both good and bad. It's good because he can't really do much damage over time and takes hits like a bitch while he's chomping down on your allies. It's bad because it means that you're only at 2/3rds manpower for most of the fight.

Last edited by Sky Render; 03-30-2012 at 11:48 PM.
  #153  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:30 PM
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His eating animation is kinda cute, actually. And it has a range as long as the whip, so trying to dodge it doesn't tend to work. Also, he's completely damage-immune when he's stunned OR knocked down. You can only stun him when he's eaten someone, and he's only knocked down by VERY large damage amounts, but either way it makes the fight a bit longer.



Once he loses enough HP, the Biting Lizard starts casting a decent-leveled Cure Water spell! This is actually a good sign, as the amount he heals from it (about 150 HP) is pretty close to on par to the amount of damage you will deal to him from attacking him relentlessly while the spell is going off. You've got the fight in the bag at this point, in short.



To wit!



Yay, more things to take to Watts later!



♪♪ Everlasting Cycle ♪♪

As the Biting Lizard fades out, an entry to the next room opens! How convenient!



That's a pretty sweet reward!

Undine: I'll give you 2 kinds of magic. Tomato may use my recovery and defense magic.

The girl always gets the healing spells, huh?



It's Morphin' time! Salad Rangers Pink!

Percy may use my battle magic.



Salad Rangers, um, Also Pink!



Sorry, Salad Ranger Red. You don't get squat.

Undine: Your Mana Sword will one day become more powerful than any magic I can give you. However, you can receive an Elemental's power, such as Ice Saber, on your sword! Tomato can cast Ice Saber on your weapon to turn enemies into snowmen! And this! Take this with you. It is one of the Mana weapons.

What Undine neglects to mention is that Tomato can cast Ice Saber on anyone's weapon. Yeah, Boss got gypped, HARD.



Though there was a new weapon in the deal, so that's kinda nice. The Pole Dart (or Spear; you can see why it got renamed!) is actually functionally identical to the boomerang and bow, so there's little point in discussing it at this venture.

Undine: Call me anytime!
*Gained Undine's powers!*


Truly, the magic is the real prize of this visit. Let's go over the spells available!



Tomato's spell list is pretty sweet. She gets Cure Water, Remedy, and Ice SaberHeal Water, Refresh, and Ice Saber. The former is your standard healing spell, the middle is a status-curing spell, and the latter makes your weapons deal ice damage and turns enemies into snowmen (meaning fights take twice as long, or meaning you can run the hell away and not fight whatever you turned into snowmen).

(Paranoid players take note: you do NOT always start out with 10 MP when you get magic! In fact, your max MP is tied solely to your level! It's just that most people reach Undine before level 11, and the MP count for both characters doesn't go above (or below) 10 until you do hit level 11. So you don't need to rush it and avoid levels to ensure maximum MP count by the end of the game; just relax and have fun!)



Percy's spell repetoire is a bit more limited in usefulness at this point. He starts out with Freeze, Acid Storm, and Energy AbsorbSpoit. They do ice damage, lower physical defense, and absorb HP, respectively. Acid Rain is pretty much never useful or necessary (bosses tend to be immune to it, and who wastes time casting damage-free status-reducing spells on common enemies?), and Spoit barely sucks up any HP even at high spell levels.



Oh yeah, let's talk about spell levels! Just like your weapons, your spells can go up in level as you use them. Fortunately, you don't have to level up each and every individual spell like in FF2; you just have to level up each elemental's school of magic, which can be about as tedious later on. It's funny I mention FF2, because SoM's weapon and spell leveling systems are pretty much directly imported from that game. 'Cept it actually works in SoM because 1.) battles don't take six centuries apiece, and 2.) it doesn't take 50 uses apiece for every goddamn level. While current maximum weapon levels are tied to the current upgrade level of the weapon, current maximum magic level is tied to how many Mana Seeds you've touched.



Crystal Orbs are made to respond or react to an Elemental's power.

This is, in fact, an essential gameplay mechanic we're being ham-handedly introduced to here! We will encounter a good two dozen Crystal Orbs from here on out. They sub in for the half-arsed switch puzzles thus far, basically.



So, back to magic leveling. Tomato is pretty fast to level up magic for, since she can just sit at a free healing spot and spam her cheapest spell. She gains spell levels fast, too! Percy's a bit more complicated. He needs live targets to kill in order to cast his magic. Also, he lacks a low-MP option a lot of the time; usually his cheapest spell in any school of magic is 2 MP, whereas Tomato's almost always able to cast a 1 MP spell.
  #154  
Old 03-30-2012, 11:31 PM
Sky Render Sky Render is offline
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Eventually Percy gets his magic level too. And no, he wasn't targetting nothing there; the magic targetting system is royally messed up in this game is what happened there. There's two artifacts of this. One is that enemies that are killed between starting a spell-casting and the spell going off will still get "hit" even though they don't exist any more. The second is that any enemy being hit by a spell will be stun-locked until the spell animation finishes. As long as they're not in an invincibility frame, you can keep hitting them with attacks. Both physical AND magical.

The latter is especially key, as many spells have an animation longer than the time it takes to cast them, meaning you can stun-lock an enemy into submission and rack up obscene damage on them as you fire off spell after spell in succession and wail on the enemy with your weapons in the meantime. This can and will be mercilessly abused, and the developers knew it. Which is why many bosses cannot be hit by physical attacks when being hit by a spell. That doesn't change the fact that getting spell-locked wrecks most bosses' shit, though.



I promised last update that we'd visit Niccolo's home, and look at that! He lives right next door to the Water Palace!



Overall, a pretty nice place he's got. Let's go say hi.



Of course, we'll not be buying today. Screw Niccolo.



Well! That's a fine how-do-you-do! See if we ever do business with YOU again!

(He's gonna fleece us SO damn often...)



So, magically fortified, we have two possible destinations: the ruins south of Pandora, or the Underground Palace. Both options have their merits and drawbacks. My personal inclination is to head for the palace, but I think it's high time the peanut gallery got some say in the New Adventures of Princess Tomato. Which way shall we go? You decide!
  #155  
Old 03-31-2012, 12:27 AM
Mogri Mogri is online now
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I don't think you gave proper emphasis to just how hard Spiky Tiger is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XamUHXuLMLo

If Biting Lizard puts 1/3 of your party out of commission at a time, Spiky Tiger makes 2/3 or all of your party useless. He gave me fits as a kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
What Undine neglects to mention is that Tomato can cast Ice Saber on anyone's weapon.
Also, anyone can equip any weapon. Sucks to be you, Boss!
  #156  
Old 03-31-2012, 01:27 AM
Sky Render Sky Render is offline
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Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
I don't think you gave proper emphasis to just how hard Spiky Tiger is.
It's pretty well impossible to express accurately anyway. I was technically over-leveled a bit when I fought him (an 11/10/10 split at the time). And he STILL burned through 4 Round Drops and an Angel's Grail. Also, I had uncharacteristic luck in that I got a few critical hits against him.

He's still way easier than most SD3 bosses, though.
  #157  
Old 03-31-2012, 06:31 AM
ProfessorS ProfessorS is offline
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I think Biting Lizard's death sprite is depressing. Every time I played the game, I felt like such a monster for slaying such a cute critter! The thing is, if he exploded like normal bosses, I wouldn't feel a thing.
  #158  
Old 03-31-2012, 09:51 AM
Gerad Gerad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
I tell ya, 90s RPG "puzzles" barely even qualified as such!
Lufia II deserves some respect here. I salute you, sole standard-bearer for interesting 90's RPG puzzles!
  #159  
Old 03-31-2012, 10:13 AM
Nodal Nodal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerad View Post
Lufia II deserves some respect here. I salute you, sole standard-bearer for interesting 90's RPG puzzles!
The first time I played it I thought to myself "Every other SNES RPG must have been pissed when Lufia took all the good puzzles." This was a year ago, so it's held up well.
  #160  
Old 03-31-2012, 10:54 AM
narcodis narcodis is offline
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Acid Rain, useless? Are we playing the same Secret of Mana? It's hardly damage free, and the defense debuff comes in super handy in the later game dungeons (like with Metal Crawlers and other such enemies). Also, I don't remember most bosses being immune to its effects, but I could be wrong about that.
  #161  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:03 AM
Sky Render Sky Render is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerad View Post
Lufia II deserves some respect here. I salute you, sole standard-bearer for interesting 90's RPG puzzles!
Yeah, but Lufia II gets a few points docked for blatantly stealing puzzle ideas from the SNES and GB Zelda games. Mind you, not very many points get docked; most of its puzzles actually seem to have inspired later Zelda games.

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Originally Posted by narcodis View Post
Acid Rain, useless? Are we playing the same Secret of Mana? It's hardly damage free, and the defense debuff comes in super handy in the later game dungeons (like with Metal Crawlers and other such enemies). Also, I don't remember most bosses being immune to its effects, but I could be wrong about that.
Oh there ARE enemies that it's useful against. Just... not most enemies and especially not early on. The damage it does is quite low compared to just about any other attack spell in the game, as well. And it seemed like every boss I bothered to try Acid Rain on didn't get affected by it. But I suppose I could try breaking it out every single boss fight just to see if it really is an underrated spell.
  #162  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:36 AM
narcodis narcodis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
Oh there ARE enemies that it's useful against. Just... not most enemies and especially not early on. The damage it does is quite low compared to just about any other attack spell in the game, as well. And it seemed like every boss I bothered to try Acid Rain on didn't get affected by it. But I suppose I could try breaking it out every single boss fight just to see if it really is an underrated spell.
Probably won't be necessary to break it down boss-by-boss, but would be interesting for sure!

I can definitely agree it's probably not very useful early in the game. It really shines in conjunction with other effects, such as the Luna spell that makes your next few attacks guaranteed critical hits.
  #163  
Old 03-31-2012, 12:54 PM
Violentvixen Violentvixen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
The whip is, amazingly enough, the longest-range weapon in the entire game. Yep, it even beats out the bow.

After slaying a completely-out-of-place Buzz Bee on the way back, the trio decide to try the shortcut with their newfound whip. It's super effective and takes them exactly where they need to be as a kicker!

So, magically fortified, we have two possible destinations: the ruins south of Pandora, or the Underground Palace. Both options have their merits and drawbacks. My personal inclination is to head for the palace, but I think it's high time the peanut gallery got some say in the New Adventures of Princess Tomato. Which way shall we go? You decide!
I didn't realize the whip was longer than the bow. Weird!

I always figured that Buzz Bee stumbled into the teleporter somehow.

I vote for the Underground Palace first, earth magic is quite useful in Pandora.

Last edited by Violentvixen; 03-31-2012 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Forgot which magic is which
  #164  
Old 03-31-2012, 01:51 PM
Sky Render Sky Render is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violentvixen View Post
I didn't realize the whip was longer than the bow. Weird!
The range of the weapons in general is a bit odd. Here's the lot of them demonstrated from longest to shortest effective range.



As you can see, the effective range of the whip and javelin is ever so slightly longer than that of the bow and boomerang. The whip just barely beats out the javelin for overall range by a few pixels!

(Fun Fact: your character always has a second copy of their weapon handy for the javelin and boomerang!)



For the close-up weapons, the spear has the best range (unsurprisingly), with the axe and sword being equally capable, and the glove being horribly short-range compared to any other option.
  #165  
Old 03-31-2012, 02:45 PM
ThricebornPhoenix ThricebornPhoenix is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
Tomato is pretty fast to level up magic for, since she can just sit at a free healing spot and spam her cheapest spell. She gains spell levels fast, too! Percy's a bit more complicated. He needs live targets to kill in order to cast his magic.
From what I remember, magic levels half as fast in non-combat areas.
  #166  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:15 PM
McClain McClain is offline
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I don't know that I knew that you had an option right now, but even if I did I would probably always go for fire magic first.

Glove range may suck but I love using it for some reason. Also I think it gets more interesting status effects later on (and the javelin I think).
  #167  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:19 PM
narcodis narcodis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClain View Post
I don't know that I knew that you had an option right now, but even if I did I would probably always go for fire magic first.

Glove range may suck but I love using it for some reason. Also I think it gets more interesting status effects later on (and the javelin I think).
You of course mean earth magic. But yeah, I always went for the temple first.
  #168  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcodis View Post
You of course mean earth magic. But yeah, I always went for the temple first.
Oh, dur, yes. Man it's been a while since I played this.
  #169  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:55 PM
Violet Violet is offline
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Glove is fun to play with but it seems useless. Not only is the range bad, you'll randomly do wrestling moves that don't even do any damage.

I'd be interested to see a thorough analysis of the weapons once we've reached that point in the LP. To me it shakes out Spear > Whip > Sword > Javelin > Bow > Axe > Boomerang > Glove, but I'm just going off of my memories.
  #170  
Old 03-31-2012, 04:51 PM
Sky Render Sky Render is offline
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Quote:
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Nikita is actually a Russian male name; I have a (male) friend with it, and it was also Khrushchev's name. I don't know why the movie "La Femme Nikita" names la femme "Nikita", though. Presumably both the movie and the Japanese game chose the name because it sounded foreign and dangerous.
I meant to comment on this earlier, but now is as good a time as any. The reason why "Nikita" tends to be taken to be a feminine name in many Western cultures is because many Western cultures have the ingrained Latin-based assumption of gender based on word endings. It's most clear in Spanish, but in just about any language derived from Latin, you will find that words ending in -o have a masculine aspect and words ending in -a have a feminine aspect. This leads to all sorts of hilarious hijinks when people first encounter names like Nikita or pretty much any common Japanese female name (most of the common ones end in -ko).

I mostly find it amusing that Niccolo's Japanese name is Nikita because it's completely out of left field (though obviously I figured most people would assume the feminine aspect, hence the in-LP joking). I think they missed a joke by not making his fur less red; he could be a Russian Blue that way.
  #171  
Old 03-31-2012, 05:59 PM
GoryCat GoryCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
I meant to comment on this earlier, but now is as good a time as any. The reason why "Nikita" tends to be taken to be a feminine name in many Western cultures is because many Western cultures have the ingrained Latin-based assumption of gender based on word endings. It's most clear in Spanish, but in just about any language derived from Latin, you will find that words ending in -o have a masculine aspect and words ending in -a have a feminine aspect. This leads to all sorts of hilarious hijinks when people first encounter names like Nikita or pretty much any common Japanese female name (most of the common ones end in -ko).
My Russian is fairly basic, but I understand it to have the same system: -a is feminine, -o or -e is neuter, and everything else is masculine. The fact that Nikita is not a feminine name is something I have never understood, along with all Russian diminutives (Sasha, Dima, Kolya, etc.). So you make an even better point!

(This similarity is a fascinating aspect of Russian, which is much less bizarre than it sounds. It has strong similarities to Latin, but aside from various loan words from French and German of eighteenth- and nineteenth-century origin, it has nothing in common with any Western language later than Latin. It's like a window back into Indo-European.)
  #172  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:01 PM
Matto Matto is offline
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I just remembered something, but does anyone else feel that Secret of Mana was the start of Square's whimsy style on the SNES? Remember how before 1993 the two Final Fantasy games were almost better looking NES games? From Mana 1 onward, these were the most visually impressive games on the system... until a certain company that starts with R and ends with E came into the picture in 1994.

I really dig this graphical style on the SNES.
  #173  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:11 PM
Sky Render Sky Render is offline
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Originally Posted by Matto View Post
I just remembered something, but does anyone else feel that Secret of Mana was the start of Square's whimsy style on the SNES? Remember how before 1993 the two Final Fantasy games were almost better looking NES games? From Mana 1 onward, these were the most visually impressive games on the system... until a certain company that starts with R and ends with E came into the picture in 1994.

I really dig this graphical style on the SNES.
I suspect the sudden leap in graphical quality from Secret of Mana onwards was due to the software they purchased specifically to make Secret of Mana's graphics look "CD game quality". They're still a bit rough around the edges compared to later titles (when they learned how to do color balance a bit better), but yeah. Why would they NOT use that software, given how much they doubtless paid for it? In a way, the SNES CD made Square synonymous with good graphics starting with this game.
  #174  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:26 AM
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Part V - Enslaving Spirits and Performing Pagan Rites for Fun and Profit

Alright, let's get this show on the road! It's time to go tackle the Underground Palace! But first, let's discuss a bit about how you can completely screw your save file over at any time after getting all three allies.



♪♪ Wild Roses and Spirits ♪♪

I'm sure you remember Potos. Quaint little village, home to the world's biggest idiots (and Boss too)?



Yeah, you can sneak back in. Just walk into the guard and mash Select repeatedly and you'll slowly walk right through him.



Unsurprisingly, nobody has anything new to say.



So many problems we could solve if we could just ram that damned sword back into that stone...



Don't save in Potos after doing this. You cannot ever get back out again without a cheat device to allow you to walk through walls.



♪♪ It Happened One Moonlit Night ♪♪

So, that bit of buggery out of the way, let's move on to the next order of business: upgrading a few weapons!



Our new weapons are the Power Glove and Chakram! While you can't help but love the former for being so bad, the latter has a curious bug tied to it that you can only see with that particular weapon type.

See, when upgrading the boomerang between forms, it will remain in its previous form if you upgrade it when it's equipped to someone. This doesn't actually impact anything but appearance, unless you swap weapons between characters. THEN the boomerang will "revert" back to its earlier form in the hands of its new wielder! Fortunately it's easily fixed: just equip any weapon besides the boomerang on that character, then re-equip the boomerang.



Anyway, let's go tackle that Underground Palace, shall we?



♪♪ Sacred Intrusion ♪♪

As promised, it's protected by a crystal orb. One casting of Freeze on it, and we're in!



Welcome to the first real bane of most Secret of Mana players: the Pa and Ma Goblins. While Werewolves certainly give a number of players a run for their money early on, this deadly duo is nothing to laugh at. They're fast, they're almost impossible to knock down, the Pa Goblins spawn Ma Goblins out of nothing, and they throw boomerangs constantly. That last part is where the real problem comes in: if you get stun-locked by a boomerang (and you probably will), you'd better switch allies or pray the ally AI gets spontaneously smart, because these gobbos will happily toss boomerangs at you for the next forever!



Fortunately, damage is not a problem with this team. Cure Water is pretty strong healing for the entire party already!
  #175  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:27 AM
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Switches aren't completely out of the picture yet, of course. The two on the sides of the first floor cause the central torch to mysteriously disappear, opening the way up.



Switches are also getting a repurposing in this dungeon as a means of making a bridge appear! I think the developers were overcompensating for the fact that the ubiquitous little floor indents are going the way of the dodo over the next few areas.



Let's just pretend this fight is going well..



Cure Water on a solo character, incidentally, really IS a full heal. You can see why Tomato's the one in charge here, I'm sure.



More whipping puzzles! Some people have been known to get stuck here since they didn't realize that these little pegs are meant for whippin'. And that's just what they'll do, once they figure it out.



Incidentally, there is an effective means of dealing with this and any other type of enemy which uses a ranged attack: wait at a diagonal approach from them, as enemies are locked to 90-degree attack patterns and they won't be able to instantly knock you on your ass with their ranged attack upon getting back up that way. The enemy AI has to think for a second when you move before it acts, so you get a brief window to attack projectile-free if you do stand diagonal and then move into the appropriate attack position after the enemy gets up.



The Chess Knight enemy is our first introduction to high-defense targets. They like to cast Speed Up on themselves, which makes them much more accurate and harder to land blows on. This can prove exceptionally fatal given that their main attack is a spinning leap straight into the fray that hits about 3 or 4 times. The best way to engage them is at a distance, like this. Otherwise, you're better off avoiding them.



Anyway, the Underground Palace is a pretty short dungeon, so we reach the top floor in record time.



Do a headcount, brownie-brown. There's only one of you.

Percy: What a wind bag!
Gnome: Why you little brat!
*Percy smacks Gnome a bit*
Percy: Take this!
Gnome: This is an outrage!
*Percy smacks Gnome some more*
Gnome: Oh, oh... it's back! I'm out of here!
Tomato: Look! Back there!


Looks like Percy inadvertently called on Gnome's bouncer!



♪♪ Crisis ♪♪

Wow, he's a big sucker! This is Fire Gigas, aka. Secret of Mana's Potentially Second-Hardest Boss, and the first big lesson about MP: save it for the boss fights!



Here we can see the combined effect of two Freeze castings in damage. Pretty healthy results! It'd take about 15 hits from our weapons to match it right now!
  #176  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:30 AM
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Fire Gigas' big gimmick is that, when he's on the stage, he will spam attack spells and skills like crazy and generally make your life miserable. Afterward, he turns into floating balls of fire and gives you a chance to heal, buff, etc.



The problem is that he spams the spells constantly when he's on the ground, and has near-zero casting time. You'll be lucky if you land more than 2 blows on him! This adds up to a LOT of lost HP, meaning you want this fight to be over FAST. The best way to do that is to pile on the Freeze castings. But of course, if you weren't frugal with your MP before this fight, you can't, and you'll end up with a battle that's just as bad as Spiky Tiger as a result!



I remembered to keep my MP up, so he was toast. (Incidentally, I tried Acid Rain on him. It lasted 3 seconds and I experienced no noteworthy increase in damage to him from attacks during those 3 seconds. I maintain that Acid Rain is useless, but we'll see if further boss fights hold this to be true.)



Our spoils this time will make our axe more badass! 'Bout time.



♪♪ Calm Before the Storm ♪♪

Oh, so it wasn't your bodyguard, then? Riiiight...

Forgive me, I took my rage out on you to get some relief.
Percy: Dolt! Serve ME and maybe I'll forgive you. Otherwise, I'll throw you to my servant, Boss.
{Percy is truly aptly named, is he not?}
Gnome: Aieee! No! Let me be your servant!
Boss: HEY! Who're YOU calling a servant?
{That's right, Percy. Who's the Boss? Sir Boss Cucumber, not you!}
Gnome: Oh dear! {What can the matter be?} Anyway, call me anytime, anywhere. Now, close your eyes... Both you and your wife may summon me.
Tomato: WHAT!? ME married to... THAT?!
*Tomato's in a huff!*
{Even salad princesses have standards!}
Percy: I like your style, Gnome!
Gnome: Well, that's that! Be seeing you!
*Got Gnome's powers!*
To the Mana Seed!


Right you are, nameless narrator-type!



Received the Seed's power!

Looks like we've successfully made this a seedy establishment!



Oh right, the kid wanted to take a nibble of the seed or something.

*Percy walks up to the seed and starts nibblin'*
Percy: Owww...! My head!
*He flies back!*
Tomato: You okay?
Percy: ......
*Percy looks down*
Percy: Oh...!
Boss: What's wrong?
*Percy looks up again*
Percy: Whew! I can remember everything now! We sprites live in the Upper Land forest! You've got to take me there! I'll let you hang out with me until we figure out a way to get there!
Boss: Gee, what a treat!


Clearly everyone's getting a bit sick of Percy by now!



♪♪ Sacred Intrusion ♪♪

One express rope back up to the Dwarf Fortress we go!



♪♪ Close Your Eyes ♪♪

May as well take a nap at the inn. It's not like I'm ever going to be using an inn again after this, so the novelty factor alone makes it worth it.



♪♪ Menu ♪♪

Let's go over our new spells! Tomato gets Stone Saber, Speed UpQuick, and DefenderProtect. Of these, the middle is easily the most valuable: it ups evasion and accuracy, which are the most important traits in any RPG. What you cannot hit, you cannot kill! Stone Saber is kinda meh, and of course increasing your physical defense would be awesome if the spell lasted longer than 2 seconds (which is about all it manages at this point).



Percy's spells for Gnome are a bit more run-of-the-mill. He's got Earth SlideEarthquake, Gem MissileDiamond Missile, and Speed Down. The former two are attack spells both (and the middle you'd probably only ever use if you only had 2 MP left and couldn't afford to drop a ball of dirt on your enemy instead), but Speed Down is definitely an awesome counterpart to Quick. It drops enemy accuracy, evasion, and movement speed. Pretty win!



♪♪ It Happened One Moonlit Night ♪♪

Let's get that axe upgraded. This gets us the Lode AxeBattle Axe. Nothing special about it, just more damaging and a new power level for attacks available to learn.



♪♪ Distant Thunder ♪♪

One of the interesting side-effects of that boomerang/chakram swap bug is that spells cast on them don't wear off. Ever (as long as you never swap the weapon off your party, at least). The boomerang here had Ice Saber briefly cast on it during the boss fight with Fire Gigas, and even though it's no longer technically enchanted, it's still doling out snowman punishment!



Eventually I decided to swap the weapon anyway. This is what the Chakram looks like.

Last edited by Sky Render; 04-02-2012 at 12:50 AM.
  #177  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:31 AM
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Anyway, let's take the aerial approach back to the Water Palace for a bit of spell leveling!



You know, it's not the fall, it's the sudden stop at the end that gets to me...



♪♪ A Silent Prayer ♪♪

I mentioned before that spell leveling gets tedious, and this is why. You have to level up each school of magic independently from each other. While it's not too bad just yet with only two schools of magic available, just consider this: each new Mana seed gets us a new school of magic and a new level of magic we can attain. There are 8 Mana seeds. And each new spirit we obtain has to be leveled separately. Hello, FF2's engine, I almost didn't see you moonlighting there!



♪♪ In the Thick of It ♪♪

Whatevs. It's not so bad at this point. But later (ie. by the next spirit we collect) it'll become pure tedium in a bottle.



Leveling up Undine for Tomato will always be a top priority no matter what, though. Look at that! Pretty much full-party max health in one casting!



I haven't shown off character stats yet, have I? Well, this is as good a time as any to go over this game's system!

Strength - Determines your base attack power. This plus weapon power equals how much damage you do with a non-power attack, before target defense is factored in.
Agility - Your evasion and accuracy scores are derived from this stat and any armor-related bonuses.
Constitution - Your base defense score. This plus body armor plus arm armor equals actual Defense.
Intelligence - Your base magic offense score. Completely worthless for Boss, won't be useful to Tomato for a while.
Wisdom - Your base magic defense score. Also affects the power of Tomato's Cure Water spell. This plus head armor plus arm armor equals actual Magic Defense.

The other stats are all derived, as I mentioned before. The rest is pretty self-explanatory.



♪♪ Wild Roses and Spirits ♪♪

On with the plot! It seems Tomato's friends with the blue-haired lady in Pandora we spoke to but never saw before this.



It's like magic!

Boss: I have a feeling we'll find our answers in the ruins down there.

Dude, I do not need to know about your "ruins down there", least of all why you refer to them as ruins...



Oh wait, he means the southern ruins. My bad!

Tomato: Come on, Phanna! Snap out of it!
Phanna: Shaddap! *Phanna smacks Tomato!* Stop bothering me!
*Phanna walks into the ruins, and Tomato starts to follow*
Tomato: Phanna! Phanna! *She runs up to the guards* Hey, you! make room!


I doubt the cultists are gonna respond to anything less than force, Tomato.



Oh, you used force. I guess that's about par for the course with you, really.



♪♪ The Ritual ♪♪

Thank you, Boss, I never would have figured out that this place is dangerous if you hadn't warned me.



The main feature of this dungeon is Zombies. Zombies and Tomato Men. The two main features of this dungeon are Zombies and Tomato Men, and the lovely demon pillars. The three...! I'll start again. Amongst the main features of this dungeon are the Zombies, the Tomato Men, and the demon statues! And the nice carpets. Oh bloody hell!

Right, I think we've got it sorted now. Subject number one: Zombies! They're... well, they're demihumans, for all intents and purposes. The only trait that sets them apart from most demihumans is that they can spit poison. Otherwise, their attack methods and stun frames are identical.



Subject number two: Tomato Men! These pests are a right pain, and let me tell you why: they are 100% immune to all forms of weaponry. That's right, not a single item in your arsenal will hurt them! Magic, however, rips them a new blowhole like no other. As we've already established, MP is better reserved for boss fights right now, so they're another case of "run away and live to see another day" monsters. It doesn't help matters that they constantly spawn Zombies.



There are Chess Knights down here too! Actually, most everything here is deserving of running the hell away from, since none of them are particularly valuable experience-wise and most of them are pains in the arse to kill.
  #178  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:33 AM
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That just leaves the possessed swords. These annoying enemies cannot be hit until they spot you and ditch their weapon racks. They like to cast Moon Saber, which causes them to regain HP every time they hit you. And before you ask, yes we will eventually get this severely awesome spell for ourselves; but not any time soon. The swords are technically fliers, meaning they're technically invulnerable when getting back up from an attack. Prognosis: avoid!



Running the hell away from everything in the dungeon gets us to the end in record time with an awful lot of HP and MP left. Hooray for productivity! The locals are all their usual stony selves, so let's talk to the head honcho instead, shall we?



That's good. Could you fill us in? I'm honestly a little foggy about some of the details.

You're no ordinary fool if you can beat Elinee and her magic.
*Tomato steps forward*
Tomato: Hand over Phanna and Dyluck, and make the people of the town as they were!
Thanatos: Ho, ho, ho...
{Thanatos actually moonlights as Santa on his off days, fun fact.} what a spirited young lass! I suppose THIS is Phanna?



Hmm... Well, it's last year's Phanna model, but yeah, I guess it'll do.

I need life energy to create a new, peaceful world order, understand? Soon the Mana Fortress will bring the people of this small world together under my rule! {Oh yeah, I can totally see a guy who wears a skull mask being a benevolent dictator.} However, it would be a shame to waste the talent you've already demonstrated. Surrender, and you may serve me. Don't, and I'm afraid you'll only end up like him!

Who, Justin Bieber? If so, just show me where to sign!



Oh, no, it's just Tomato's squeeze. False alarm!

Thanatos: Yes, he was a tough one. I believe Elinee had a hard time with him, too. He must be receiving some kind of special inner power. A very fortunate discovery!
Boss: I'll never join you!
{But Boss, it is your destiny!}
Thanatos: Very well, then you can join the rest!

Ooh, is there going to be cake!?



I'm just gonna assume that's the Cake Dispensary Chute you tossed us down.



Ouch! Maybe not. Who keeps cake in spike pits?



What, the spikes? They look pretty inanimate to me...



♪♪ Crisis ♪♪

Actually, he's talking about this Demon Wall knock-off at the top of the room (shown here in the midst of an Acid Rain bath; it did nothing of note and wore off faster than you can read this sentence, as usual).



This particular boss is a set of 3 eyes. The only one you should target (indeed, the only one you should WANT to) is the middle one. If you kill off the other two, the wall starts pushing you towards the spikes, FF4-style. Only it's instant game over if you get shoved into the spikes! Boo!



The side eyes are a general annoyance at best, spamming lasers (yep, they've got FRIKKIN' LASER BEAMS!) and Energy Absorb to heal themselves. The middle eye mostly just casts spells at you like Speed Down.



Your best bet is to nail it with spells, as usual. As you can see here, a few well-placed Earthquakes knock this bad boy for a loop!



Once you've made the third eye blind, the fight's over in the usual explosive manner.



Hooray for power! Unlimited power!



♪♪ Calm Before the Storm ♪♪

...If you know what we've been up to, how did you not know that?

You've ruined a plan that took months to build... I will not soon forget this treachery! The villagers are yours, but not these two!

I like how he phrases it like you were actually on his side or something. Thanatos has quite a strange viewpoint!
  #179  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:35 AM
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Oops, looks like we screwed that rescue up!

Thanatos: Till we meet again! Mwa, ha, ha, ha!

Dude, evil laughs work better when you clump 'em together. You just sound like you have to think about it when you space your chuckles out like that. Just sayin'.



Oh goody, a brief bout of Talking Time(tm)!

Soldier: What have I been doing all this time? Please inform the castle of this immediately!
Man: Where on earth is this?
Woman: My head feels like a ton of bricks...
Woman: Darn, I was doing my dishes!


That's more than enough of that for this update, I think!



Jema totally pulled a Percy on us!

Thanatos is one of the Empire's top generals. They must be desperate to get Mana. But why was he taking the life energy away from the villagers like this? The Empire only needs the power of the Mana Seeds, not the people. There's something... very distrubing about Thanatos... I've got a bad feeling about him. Anyway, let's get out of here! Return to Luka's place. I'm off to check out the Underground Palace!

Poor Jema, always a few steps behind the times... Well, if he wants to waste time there, we can just let him while we pay Luka a visit, I guess.



♪♪ Bright Summer Skies ♪♪

Now that the town's back to normal, the armor shop's open! Yeah, they only sell one new item, and it boasts a whole 2 more points of defense over the previous bracelet. Woo. Hoo.



Behold, the most unresponsive NPC in the game! They forgot to give this woman any prompting ability after you save Pandora, so she just walks around and ignores you constantly. This makes her easily the most believable NPC in the entire game as a result.



That's what you get for doubting the Boss. He gets things done, workin' overtime.



And by "everywhere" he means "in Pandora proper". The countryside's still ripe with monsters and the Empire's still gonna flatten us all once they realize that war machines are the more economical pursuit than mythical fortresses, but hey. Small victories.

What Jema said about the Mana Sword and you was true! We must now part with our treasure...! We've guarded these for centuries for you, wielder of the Mana Sword.

Sweet! What phat loot did the ancients leave for us?



...You have GOT to be kidding me. Yes, this treasure room contains a paltry 200 Lucre as our reward. Damned inflation. I bet it would have been worth 20,000 Lucre a century ago! Oh, and there's orbs for the sword and spear, so it's not a complete wash.



Well screw you too, lady.



♪♪ A Silent Prayer ♪♪

Anyway, let's find out what Luka has to say.

They must have done it while Undine was weakened and in danger. The water tells me they took it to Gaia's Navel, or...deeper. I don't think they are from the Empire. Please! Hurry and bring it back!

Shenanigans! Looks like we've got a case, Salad Crew! To the Mystery Cannon!



I always find it funny that taking Cannon Travel to Gaia's Navel causes you to land right on top of a giant green bee. I wonder which party is more surprised!



♪♪ It Happened One Moonlit Night ♪♪

While there, we can upgrade our armaments! The ShortSteel Bow here is just another low-level upgrade, and the Herald SwordKusanagi Sword has more power than anything else, bur Sprite's SpearDemon Lance has a new feature to it that we'll discuss soon!



Jema's here already, unsurprisingly.

I'll handle protecting the Palace. You check this out! Keep alert! We don't know what lies below!

Sure, why not?

Elder: What could make a hole THIS big? Other than us dwarves, I mean.

'Tis a mystery for the ages, that!

Last edited by Sky Render; 04-02-2012 at 01:00 AM.
  #180  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:36 AM
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♪♪ Strange Happenstance ♪♪

Apparently the answer is "a giant warship of some sort"!



A warship that's loaded!



And some fruity sorts! Who are these clowns?

How'd you get in here? You realize we can't let you leave here alive...

I'm so intimidated, he lied.



"Wait, your name is Boss too? But... but you're a girl!"
"Yeah, we've been meaning to tell you about that, Boss..."
"Boss IS a girl's name."
"No WONDER everyone in the village used to make fun of me!"

Boys: Check it out!
Boss: Shuddap! WE took the Water seed... ...to complete our Super Deluxe Robot! We call it "Kilroy"...
Boys: Hubba, hubba!
Boss: Do it!!
Boys: Aye aye, Sir.


I'm sure the fact that we now have two characters in this story named Boss won't ever become in any way confusing!

I'm confused.

Damn it, Boss!



♪♪ Crisis ♪♪

Please, lady. We've fought Mudcrabs more fearsome than you!

Boss: Aiee! What's wrong?
Boys: Too much energy... it's out of control!
Boss: Nooo! Remove the seed! use the auxiliary power!


Hooray for malfunctioning robots! Let's see what makes Mal function, shall we?



This pretty much sums up the fight. Kilroy can and will Moogle your characters with his hammer, but seeing as magic does obscene amounts of damage, it's not like it matters much.



Oh, and as for the "acid test"? Once again, wore off in a nanosecond and gave no noticeable benefits. Kinda losin' faith in this spell, guys. It'd better get awesome later...



In the end, giant robots are no match for the power of lovegiant boulders!



Oh wow, I thought power-ups for that weapon were just a myth!



♪♪ Strange Happenstance ♪♪

Recovered the Water Mana Seed!

The Scorpion Army didn't even stick around long enough to be properly screencapped after their defeat! Sore losers. At least we know we'll NEVER see them again, though!



♪♪ It Happened One Moonlit Night ♪♪

Might as well, I suppose.
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