Oh! Emperor Vandole is a DOG. - Let's Uncover the Secret of Mana!

Into the Thick of It is impressive!

Not a huge fan of the chorus though. I would have rather just had instrumental arrangements, and it sounds like they added words to these? There are enough T and S sounds that I don't think they're just singing the notes. Huh.

God dammit I'm going to have to play some of this game now to get it out of my system. Maybe I'll just try to keep up with the updates since that'll only be an hour or less every few days/week.

Wow, this theme is rad. Never thought I'd hear a double-bass pedal on the SNES!

That's a bag full of goods that he carries over his shoulders.

Oh probably. But the way he picks it up and puts it down over and over again there, it looks like he's wearing a cloak that's billowing in the wind.

Mind: blown

(guy put on a few pounds!)

Yeah, the stylization that characters underwent in the transition from SD3 to LoM did ol' Nic no favors. He also seems to have inherited a bit of rabbit DNA for his later appearances too. But it's definitely the same guy; he's called Nikita in the Japanese versions of every Seiken Densetsu game he's in, regardless of whether he's a skinny cat or a fat rabbit/cat hybrid.

I've never had a problem with Bud Tropicallo and I never bothered getting Purim before Gaia's Navel. Course, I'm also crazy-good at SoM, but... �.�

I'd played through this game six or seven times since the mid-90s, but I didn't realize you could bring the girl to Gaia's Navel until I played the VWF patched version last year and attempted to do things "out of order". It blew my mind.

I thought the direct translations of the Japanese were cool, but I'd rather the LP writers have fun bringing me free entertainment than go crazy.

Nikita is actually a Russian male name; I have a (male) friend with it, and it was also Khrushchev's name. I don't know why the movie "La Femme Nikita" names la femme "Nikita", though. Presumably both the movie and the Japanese game chose the name because it sounded foreign and dangerous.

It's not the only one in this game, either. Great soundtrack, or greatest soundtrack?

I can't give it that distinction, because I've heard SD3's soundtrack. Allow me to provide a brief sampler:

♪♪ Walls and Steel ♪♪
♪♪ Hope, Isolation, and Prayer ♪♪
♪♪ Meridian Child ♪♪
♪♪ Few Paths Forbidden ♪♪
♪♪ Nuclear Fusion ♪♪
♪♪ Obsession ♪♪
♪♪ Black Soup ♪♪

And my personal favorite SD3 song...
♪♪ High Tension Wire ♪♪

Spoony and Cinema Snob did it best though. ASS-TO-ASS!

I always thought it was either a fan, or a big hat for years.

PEPCY

Add me to the list of people who always went to Gaia's Navel alone.

I actually knew you could grab her first, but I was kind of OCD about having her and the sprite have the same experience level, so I'd grab the sprite and then rush to Pandora wiithout attacking anything. Then if either of them died in battle it was an instant reset. I have no idea why I cared so much...

If I recall, you can get the girl first, then go to Gaia's navel anyway without seeing you need an axe. If you do, the girl leaves, and then later you have to rescue her from a couple of those brawlin' horse-like dudes.

I did not discover for several years that there was any other way. It seems like the most natural progression.

Tough battle, though.

You also find her fighting werewolves if you haven't met her yet at all (the goblin dinner event doesn't trigger if you don't talk to Dyluck and his men enough to get them to enter the forest).

I'm not sure I even knew she could bail out on Gaia's Navel; I think I've always either shown her the skulls or not recruited her at all until the forest.

It's always been really odd to me that there's this element of non-linearity in the first couple hours and pretty much none for the rest of the game (that I'm aware of).

I'd guess it has to do with the fact that the game as released was hastily cobbled together out of its half-finished original concept.

I guess what I mean is I wonder if originally the game was going to be a lot more open, like with branching paths or even endings? I've heard a lot about how this was going to be a Play Station game on a CD, but I've never really heard what that game was going to be beyond "bigger than Secret of Mana turned out."

I recall the major dungeons get much more bunched together in the back half of the game, and there are plenty of seemingly important NPCs that never get a chance to say or do much of anything (including using any of their unused sprites (spoilers)); the grindy leveling system could also become less so if the game were simply longer with a proportional difficulty curve. So, most of the difference probably did come from the game being longer originally, with various dungeons and story scenarios that would have both spaced and fleshed things out more intuitively.

So I fired up my game on the VC. I have no idea why (maybe I was drunk) but I named the girl something terrible that I won't repeat on this LP. I kinda hate to replay the beginning of the game and no one else is going to see it, so I'll just deal with the personal shame every time she levels up. I was just past the LP, but couldn't remember where I was supposed to go next, so I ran around lost for an hour before finding my way back to the water temple and finally figuring out where I needed to go.

Damn the AI is kind of a bigger bitch than I remember, and the Sprite is fragile as all hell at first, so I ended up playing as it mostly.

The ally AI is indeed pretty phenomenally bad a lot of the time. We'll be getting more into the details of just how bad, as well as how to mitigate it, as the LP goes on. The reason why being that I have had exactly ONE opportunity to play this game with a second player. I have won it about a dozen times. Ergo I have learned over the years how to get the AI to be less retarded (or at the very least, prevent it from causing any sort of problem due to how retarded it is).

There is a little more non-linearity later in the game after this, but it's pretty weak overall. We're talking "you have x tasks to complete to continue the plot" non-linearity, not "you can do things in any order as long as you get tasks x, y, and z done by the end of it" non-linearity.

Yeah, I did the werewolf battle almost every time.

I had an amusing glitch I noted in the last thread. She's a way better hero! It's also possible to recruit the girl before triggering the goblin quest, so she rescues herself from the cauldron.

Those sprites are fascinating. Cool link.

It was actually really liberating to tandem-rape those damn wolf man enemies in Elinee's place. They had it coming. Also, I too shall be joining the Warrior Princess Tomato team, as I am mirroring your playthrough. Someone's gonna get "whacked" alright. Gangster style.

Part IV - Witch Way Do We Go Now?

And we're back! The scourge of the underworld (and six-time winner of the Most Garish Color Scheme Award), Tropicallo, has been defeated and a new ally has joined our ranks! Who is this little troublemaker, you ask?



♪♪ It Happened One Moonlit Night ♪♪

Well, I bet you hadn't asked now! I'm glad to see he's offended too.

Percy joined, Boss!



Yeah, OSHA's gonna have a fit when they see that, by the way.

But there is a lava field which Elinee made to seal the palace. First you have to go to Elinee's castle to ask her to dissolve her seal. Elinee used to be a good witch. But...she's not anymore. {How eloquent.} Go north to the Haunted Forest, find her castle and ask her to open the seal. Here are a bow and arrows we found along with the little one. Take them.
*Received Chobin's Bow and arrows!*
That reminds me, Watts the blacksmith was looking for you. Visit his workshop.

Thanks, elder! Finally, some ranged weaponry!



Our new slightly creepy and never-going-to-carry-the-item-bag ally also comes with a Boomerang! Two weapons for the price of one, and both with a decent range! The trade-off, of course, is that they're not nearly as strong as the close-ranged options. This is an acceptable trade-off, and there is little reason to ever not have at least one ally equipped with one of these two weapons.



My preference, unsurprisingly, is to give it to Percy and put him on mid-range attack duty. He's a lot more useful that way than just walking straight into enemy attacks and dying in 3 hits, trust me.



Let's see what Watts is up to, then!

Got a boomerang, huh...? ...Wait! I know...! Try holding this axe!
*Meaningful glow!*
That's it! Mana power in these weapons won't work unless you hold them! {I am astonished, really. Watts apparently doesn't realize that you have to hold a weapon to use it! He really is a Dwarf!} This axe is mighty special! You could even smash a boulder with it. Take it with you for 100GP!
> Sure! / No thanks!

Well, we can certainly afford that! And besides, it's what we came here for, right?



No prob, Bob.

They need to be reforged to release any Mana received from the orbs. And only I can do it! Now, let me show you a short cut.

Watts has quite a high opinion of himself!



Hard to argue with that! Those stairs let us bypass the dungeon between the entrance to the caves and the Dwarf Fortress entirely.



Watts can upgrade our spear right now too, but... well, as you can see, we don't have enough Lucre. Time to grind out some cash!



♪♪ In the Thick of It ♪♪

Man, Niccolo gets around, huh? For much of the early part of the game, Niccolo's role is mid-dungeon save point and overpriced shop.



♪♪ Distant Thunder ♪♪

Let's talk AI stupidity for a moment! You know that Attack/Guard and Approach/Distance grid? Yeah, the AI takes that as more of a loose suggestion. Here's how it actually works (as opposed to how you would THINK it works): the Attack/Guard gauge determines how quickly they close in to attack when they've "spotted" an enemy. The Approach/Distance gauge determines how close they try to get to the enemy before they attack. They're both, as I said, taken to be loose suggestions; once combat has actually started, your allies will basically do the exact same thing no matter WHAT you've set the action grid to.



The AI also has problems understanding just how long (or short) their range actually is. As seen here, the AI is quite happy to attempt to fight that Lullabud through a very solid tree and never hit it, even though I've got a Buzz Bee engaged nearby. Once an ally locks onto an enemy, they won't give up on that enemy until you get far enough away from it, even if they cannot possibly hit it. This is why it's a good idea to give your allies somewhat decent-ranged weapons.



Now that it's been upgraded, the sword has unlocked a new potential power level! Tomato there can now use a second level of power attack, which does about as much damage as two regular strikes and takes about as long to charge up as two regular strikes.

...I'm gonna be honest with you, I almost never use power strikes. Few enemies warrant such excessive violence, especially since power strikes do NOT increase your accuracy. Generally quite the opposite since every power attack has a "build-up" sequence that takes more than enough time for the target to move out of range and/or knock you out of the attack.



Oh yeah, our new pal Percy? Starts at level 1. We've gotta bring him up to par. No biggie, the money needed to afford the spear upgrade justifies the effort!



At last, the upgrade is complete! The Heavy LanceSpear is ready to kill! It too now can sport a second level of power attack, for those who are feeling lucky (ie. not me).

♪♪ In the Thick of It ♪♪

Remember those skulls from before? No match for a good axin'! Quite lucky that Tomato's intuition was correct there, wouldn't you say?



Unfortunately, it leads to nowhere. Well that's just lovely.



But there's another way around! Over here we get our first look at our newest enemy type, the BeholderEye Spy. These enemies are definitely the most annoying so far. They spawn Chobin Hoods, cause a status condition that makes you unable to attack (we'll discuss that in a few screenshots), and they have the most annoying invincibility frame: they cannot be hurt when they're knocked down! Fortunately, they can be taken out from a distance, and this is in fact the best way to deal with them.



That crest there did the trick and closed up the cliff above! We can continue past the previously blocking skulls now!



That looks familiar, doesn't it? Looks like we've found the far side of the shortcut from the Water Palace!



The rest of the forest is just more Chobin Hoods, Blats, and the occasional Mushboom, so let's just skip to the castle proper, shall we?



Right out the gate (and out of the gate), we run into a new enemy type! Werewolves are demihumans, meaning they share the same traits as all demihumans: immune to damage when stunned, but totally sucker-punchable otherwise. The differences being that they like to sucker-punch right back, and that they're huge! Tallest demihumans ever!



This, incidentally, is what an Eye Spy causes for status conditions. Yep, you get Moogle'd, son! Moogles can't attack in any way, but they retain their full physical defense and even use items!



Werewolves have one other annoying trait, that being that they can cast Cure Water. Fortunately, as we'll discuss later, this is actually a detriment to most enemies and rarely outpaces your damage output if you're clever enough to lay on the hurt while the healing spell is going off.

(For some reason, the second Werewolf never showed up, despite casting that spell! I think I might have screenkill'd him! Yeah, you can despawn enemies sometimes if you're lucky. I don't know the mechanics of how to make it happen, so don't ask me.)



Aha, there's another one of those pesky trap chests! Bombs are about on par with punching gloves for the damage they deal, ie. 15 to 20. Weak.



In the next room, even the furniture wants us dead! Polter Chairs aren't particularly intimidating at a glance since you can hit them at any time (they have no invulnerability frames), but player beware! If you have only one live ally and they get corned by a Polter Chair, it's over. They attack VERY fast, and will continuously knock you down over and over and over again until you die. I do indeed tell you this from experience, and I would also like to state that in hindsight it was quite hilarious that the chosen hero of Mana got punked out by a chair. It was like TNA Impact, only entertaining.



This is the best way to deal with Eye Spies, by the way: stand so they're just barely on screen, and hit them with a long(er)-range weapon like the boomerang or bow. They'll never attack or summon backup, which is good considering how annoying they are when they do that.



There are two gates in this room. You must choose, but choose wisely.

Tomato chose... poorly. To be fair, it was Percy's suggestion.



Enemies respawn if you go even one screen away in this game, which can be inconvenient if you're trying to hightail it out of an area and don't remember that you have the Magic Rope. Also, Percy's finally starting to catch up in level with the other two!



Suddenly Werewolves out of nowhere!



Yeah, I haven't mentioned it before, but I'm a master Werewolf slayer. The secret is to keep JUUUUUST enough distance that they can't hit you when they get up, then attack JUUUUUST out of your weapon's range of them. Since Werewolves are combat-happy idiots, they'll walk right into your waiting blade and get their asses kicked.



Looks like we've got problems! This switch isn't working... Okay, downstairs we go, then!



Wow, this guy's helpful already!

Boss: We've come to help!
Soldier: ...Huh? Ah...
Tomato: Where's Dyluck?
Soldier: ...What? Um... Maybe...with the witch?
Boss: It's hopeless. These guys seem like zombies. {Seem, but aren't. This guy's just a bit slow. You politically incorrect jerk.}
Tomato: Just like the people in Pandora! You can bet the witch is behind this!
Soldier: Are you...goin' to... ...witch's lair...? ...go up to...next floor. When 3 people step onto... platform...uh...bridge...
Boss: ...? Platform? Let's go see it!

You already did, remember? Jeez, your memory's awful.



How'd he get caught and dragged here ahead of us? He was quite clearly in the forest not 15 minutes ago, and there's only one path to the castle! Oh well, he can restock us.



Yes, I'm serious. Normally my policy is to not give Niccolo the time of day, but in this case I'd much rather blow 1200 Lucre on his Angel's Grails than go all the damn way back to Kippo. And trust me, we are going to need Angel's Grails shortly...



Anyway, the button does indeed spawn a bridge up to the next area. And I have some fun playing Boomerang Tag with the respawned Werewolves. It's a delightful game and Tomato is especially good at it against opponents who don't have boomerangs themselves.



The edge-of-screen Eye Spy murder method works vertically as well as horizontally. Just FYI.



What a dastardly puzzle! Nobody could ever solve it!



Except everyone with the slightest bit of inclination to do more than just stare at a blank wall and give up, of course. I tell ya, 90s RPG "puzzles" barely even qualified as such!



♪♪ Did You See the Sea? ♪♪

The witch has a few chairs guarding her staircase! I mostly just wanted to include this screenshot to let you get a listen to the new music track, actually.



Yeah, I guess the Tomato Crew is a bit on the loud side. Sorry, murdering possessed seating is hard to do silently!

You'll regret disturbing my work!
*Elinee runs into the nearby door*

Huh, well... after her!



Why you fiend! ...Who the fuck's Thanatos?