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To Infinity and Beyond: The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I enjoyed the movie. Not as much as Ragnarok which caught lightning in a bottle, it was right there in the middle of the MCU tier list.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
Thor 4 was a good movie for the same reasons Ragnarok was a good movie.

Taika Waititi can make a fuckin movie.
 
I ventured out to theaters for the first time since the pandemic began to see this. A friend had a whole bunch of free tickets so why not. I slapped an N95 on and it was off to the races.

The movie itself was pretty good. I enjoyed it. I think I enjoyed it more than Ragnarok. I'm pretty critical of Marvel movies in general, and one of the bigger points of criticisms is that Marvel movies tend to be embarrassed that they're based on comic books, and have to constantly lampshade the fact with self-deprecating jokes like omg comics are so dumb, glad we're not in a comic wink wink. And Love & Thunder let its freaky comic bookness fly without any of the dumb lampshading. It was just proud to be weird and like a comic, and I'll always appreciate it. I will never ever understand the propensity to spend a billion dollars making a big movie based on a comic book, but then have the movie be embarrassed of its origins. Make something else if you don't actually want to be a comic book!

Anyways. Yeah. Good fun. The movie was very dumb and you could rip it apart at the seams once you start nitpicking the plot or character decisions. (Like all of these movies tbh) but when you're having a good time it's easier to go with the flow instead of getting hung up on those things. And I suppose I was having a really good time. I think the big reason why I liked this more than Ragnarok was because this one had an emotional core to it, that was fairly effective/affecting. I'm always going to appreciate something I can enjoy on multiple levels more than Ragnarok just being a big dumb silly adventure with very little consequences. (Thor's father died, he's reunited with a long lost sister, he's fresh off the heels of being dumped, and he blows up his entire homeland, and none of those things affect his emotional state longer than a few seconds.)

I try to avoid the popular discourse following these kinds of movies because they almost never make any sense to me, so I'm very puzzled to hear there's critical backlash against this film. What's the jist of what's going on there? Is it just the general Marvel fatigue that's set in, in the last year or two? Movie critics are lazy, dumb, and cowards.

ratcheting up the ante in the male cheesecake arms race. Your move, WB/DC.
You say this like we didn't just watch like, 3 or 4 movies in a row of Henry Cavill or Jason Momoa finding every flimsy chance to shed clothes. 😂

I had wondered if we'd get a nod to Loki and what he's up to between seasons of his show, as this would seem the place to do it, but oh well.
It was a blink-and-you-miss-it moment, but there was Thor's commemorative back tat to Loki that I was greatly amused by if that counts.

Not super sure how I feel about Thor leading an army of literal child soldiers into battle, though I'm at least partially mollified by the little girl absolutely tearing shadow monster ass with lightning bolts from her stuffed animal's eyes.
I thought this was fine. Definitely a little suss, but these are Asgardian kids, so they're all individually stronger than most of the Avengers put together. And it was kind of like, prep work preparing the audience for Thor becoming a dad at the end, which a LOT of the movie actually was, tbh when you go back and reflect on a lot of the dialog and jokes and scenarios. Which in turn, is also probably about the whole Phase 4 theme of having the Avengers prep the Next Generation of super heroes to take over.

since it seems to have brought back a simulacrum of Gorr's daughter rather than the real thing, maybe not.
I didn't interpret things that way. That whole situation seemed vague on purpose, and the way I read things, is taht she had extra new powers because it was part of what her dad wished for so she could protect herself in the future from the nasty bad-gods. At least, that will be my headcanon.
 

Vaeran

perfect world
(he/him)
Glad you had a good time, WH.

I try to avoid the popular discourse following these kinds of movies because they almost never make any sense to me, so I'm very puzzled to hear there's critical backlash against this film. What's the jist of what's going on there? Is it just the general Marvel fatigue that's set in, in the last year or two? Movie critics are lazy, dumb, and cowards.

I don't know what the backlash is about and, honestly, ever since Captain Marvel I've been a little afraid to find out. There's a small but vocal contingent of MCU "fans" who go absolutely berserk when a woman's allowed to do anything in these movies, so I'm guessing the idea of Jane being on Thor's level didn't sit well with them, but who knows. Fuck em, it's a good movie.

You say this like we didn't just watch like, 3 or 4 movies in a row of Henry Cavill or Jason Momoa finding every flimsy chance to shed clothes. 😂

If WB/DC want to show me Henry Cavill or Jason Momoa's butts, I will look at them. I will pay $12 to sit in a theater and look at them. That's the Vaeran promise™.

It was a blink-and-you-miss-it moment, but there was Thor's commemorative back tat to Loki that I was greatly amused by if that counts.

Yeah, I caught that too. I just mean that the movie ignores that there's once again a live Loki running around the universe. It's not a criticism and I didn't really expect anything in terms of acknowledgment, but it would have been a nice surprise.

I didn't interpret things that way. That whole situation seemed vague on purpose, and the way I read things, is taht she had extra new powers because it was part of what her dad wished for so she could protect herself in the future from the nasty bad-gods. At least, that will be my headcanon.

I mean, maybe. I don't know any better than you do. But I'm basing this on the shot I mentioned, where we see the daughter's reflection in the water and it's Eternity's silhouette instead of her face. That's pretty standard visual shorthand for "this person is not who they appear to be." Given that we know nothing about her actual life from before she was resurrected, I guess we'll never be able to tell if she's the same person or not.
 
It’s not a moral failing to dislike a movie(game/show/whatever) and I don't see why you'd imagine the worst of people who do. Not saying anyone needs to harsh their vibes by reading critical reviews that give them no pleasure...
 

Vaeran

perfect world
(he/him)
It’s not a moral failing to dislike a movie(game/show/whatever) and I don't see why you'd imagine the worst of people who do.

I think this is a little unfair. While I admitted that I don't know the reason(s) for the apparent Thor: L&T backlash, I have seen enough hateful, misogynistic screeds against the MCU's female characters (and enough people derisively calling it the "M-She-U") to know that these people are out there and are not shy about their shitty beliefs. No imagination required. It's just a sad fact these days that any genre film which features a woman in a prominent role, whether that be comics, Star Wars or otherwise, is inevitably going to get review-bombed by fragile little men who feel threatened by the fact that the place that was once solely their dominion is now becoming more inclusive.

Just to be absolutely clear here, it is perfectly fine not to like this movie (or any MCU movie, or any movie, or any piece of entertainment media whatsoever) and I do not assume you are part of the above-mentioned chud squad if you don't. If I gave a different impression then I apologize, because that wasn't my intent.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
I've seen two kinds of backlash for FOUR THOR.

There's the stupid dipshit "HOW DARE THIS MOVIE HAVE COLORS OR WOMEN" complaints that the get woke go broke morons cite any time a marvel movie have colors or women or women of color.

Then there's the seemingly more specific to THIS movie backlash from apparently the OTHER side of the aisle, which is seemingly a mishmash of mostly valid complaints. The ones I've seen are:

1.) Its not gay enough. That's True! It's not! I don't know how much gay you could expect from a movie about two straight characters getting back together, but Natalie Portman PROBABLY shouldn't have said it was SUPER DUPER GAY in that one press appearance.

2.) Some of the CGI Shots in this bootleg recording look bad! They do. But they mostly looked fine in motion on the big screen, and I'm tempted to just write this off as nerds looking for things to whine about.

2a.) The director was kind of a prick about those CGI shots! Honestly, given the fucking horror stories we constantly hear about what it's like to work in VFX, ESPECIALLY working for Marvel, this one rings super true! So, yeah. What the fuck, Taika.

3.) That Cancer stuff was kinda fucked up. I thought it was mostly on-point, but I don't have cancer, so I'll leave that one to to people who know what they're talking about.

4.) Fuck Disney. HELL YEAH FUCK DISNEY!! I HOPE DISNEY FUCKING DIES!! IN A FIRE!!

So yeah. It's not totally off base or anything.
 
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Vaeran

perfect world
(he/him)
1.) Its not gay enough. That's True! It's not! But it's also a movie about two straight characters getting back together so... I don't really know what anyone expected.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll tell you exactly what I was expecting and why:

Back in 2019, the Marvel crew hit Hall H at San Diego Comic-Con and Tessa Thompson gave fans an exciting tease for “Thor: Love and Thunder.” “As new king, she needs to find her queen,” she said. “So that will be the first order of business.”
Source: The Wrap

If you read through that article it has some quotes from Tessa Thompson and Taika Waititi as to why this story didn't make it into the final film. I have no idea whether it was genuinely their decision to cut it or whether they faced pressure from The Mouse, but I know where I'd put my money if I were a betting man. So instead we got Valkyrie kissing a maiden's hand, and listening to Korg tell her how sad she is about her dead girlfriend. Which is better than nothing, but boy am I getting tired of saying that when it comes to queer representation.

4.) Fuck Disney. HELL YEAH FUCK DISNEY!! I HOPE DISNEY FUCKING DIES!! IN A FIRE!!

Hmm, yeah.

Yeah...

YEAH!!!!!!!
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
Thank you Varean, I was not aware of that.

Also I wanna apologize for the version of that line you quoted. Re-reading it it comes across as really dismissive and just kind of jackass-esque. so I'm sorry about that.
 

Vaeran

perfect world
(he/him)
Oh, I didn't realize you edited it. I do like the edit better but there's no need to apologize. We're cool!
 

muteKi

Ell eye ell why, ee ee ell why
I mean I am definitely on the side of "Disney has been saying 'This, THIS is the movie where we'll finally bring you gay characters' about every single one of their films and then there's ONE gay character and he's the guy who has one line about how his day job is scooping ice cream and makes no contribution to the plot whatsoever, so his entire existence could have been edited out without anyone noticing, and so I am not clear why people expect this time to be any different"
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
Oh yeah, there is no reason to expect anything other than lies from Disney.

That is NOT me saying people SHOULDN'T be pissed when they realize Disney lied to them again. If anything they should be MORE pissed that Disney keeps pulling this shit despite their constant assurances that they're definitely not pulling this shit this time.

Disney fuckin sucks. Fuck Disney.
 
Some of those criticism I get but some I don't. But mostly, all I know about any criticisms is that I asked my old man (loves himself Marvel movies; goes to see all of these; grew up reading Marvel comic books himself) if he was going to go see this movie and he was like, "I dunno... the reviews aren't very good..." Which just kinda has me flabbergasted. This guy dragged me out to watch Thor 2 in back when everyone couldn't wait to watch bad Marvel pap, but now mediocre reviews are scaring him away from what I thought was a pretty fun time. I don't understand people sometimes I guess.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
My only complaint was I didn’t really care much for Gorrs design, but if he was authentic to the comic he’d straight up he Voldemort, except naked

So I get it
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
First movie I've seen in a theatre in a while, since it was in a small town on a Tuesday. A delightful experience. One of my friends would always laugh at the goats because that's who he is. It was easy to see Hercules cameo at the end coming but it will be interesting going forward since to me he's always been a goofier Thor and Thor is so goofy in the MCU, going harder on that will be weird. Christian Bale is really good as the villain and he's definitely one of those actors who REALLY wants to play a different character after being the hero for so long and he excels at it. I think he was a little oversold as "best villain since Killmonger" because no he isn't but he is VERY good and I like the end of his arc.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
I kind of preferred the end of his arc in the comics; where he realizes that the Necrosword power has made him a God, and that, more than the lightning bolts and vicious beat downs, is what ultimately defeats him.

And later when it’s pointed out that Thor himself is an open defying of everything he believes in, and is the only one working to stop him, and he just completely breaks down


Granted, that really wouldn’t have fit with the tone of the movie or series, so convincing him to try to save his daughter instead of avenge her really does fit better
 
I mean, no one yet. Killmonger is the best, most well-realized one. Holy shit, that final moment.
To me, when someone says "best since _______" they aren't saying that person/thing is better than _______, just better than everyone else except ___________ between that time period. Which sounds like you agree with??? So I don't get your initial objection here.
 
I kind of preferred the end of his arc in the comics; where he realizes that the Necrosword power has made him a God, and that, more than the lightning bolts and vicious beat downs, is what ultimately defeats him.
I really liked how things went down in this movie. Gorr seems to have this respect for Thor as not like the other gods, and he can see with his own eyes that he cares for the non-godly and fights for them in ways he assumes gods don't/won't. All of this started out of his desire for vengeance. So freed from the Godslayer and presented with an opportunity to make anything happen, it felt suitable to have him decide to wish for his daughter back instead and be swayed by Thor's emotional plea. As for Thor's side of things, he went on this mission to save the gods, but ended up killing way more gods than Gorr was, and he couldn't even convince the lazy assholes to save themselves. So him giving up feels about right. He's already completely lost as a person. He finds purpose in wanting to protect and defend the people he cares about, but the person he cares about most is already going to die so fuck it.

There are a lot of weird, messy implications for the greater MCU here in this film for none of the gods heeding Thor's call to arms but for the purpose of this movie, it's whatever. Also, fuck the greater MCU.
 

Sprite

(He/Him/His)
Ms. Marvel was good, very low stakes with likable characters I want to see more of. Here’s hoping Marvels doesn’t blow too much of it up.
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
Really enjoyed Ms Marvel.

It did kinda feel like the one potentially world-endangering threat was mandated by Marvel formula, and the end of that thread was a little anti-climactic plot-wise, but fortunately it didn't matter because the supernatural plot elements weren't really the main point there, it was the character beats, *and* it wasn't even the end of the season, getting whole 'nother episode to come back to Jersey City hijinks which were aces. I feel like this series manged to handle "street-level hero needs to have global-level tie-ins" much better than Moon Knight did.

And as much as Ms Marvel is really at her best in Jersey, I did appreciate the detour, just because it's so rare and refreshing to see a city like Karachi get the kind of loving visual and thematic treatment usually reserved for NYC or LA.
 
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