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The Ultimate Final Fantasy Thread: This Guy Are Knock You All Down
- Thread starter Issun
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- ...whatever baha-blast bobby corwen caffeine free cherry bahamut zero cid's terrifying teeth did u kno the ffxiv free trial goes to hw? everybody knows dr unne final fantasy ha ha ha ha ha! i like big butz i'm captain basch! i'm here to kill chaos is mythril yummy? lali ho! let's mosey lord blast one to be born from a dragon role-playing game son of a submariner! square square enix stupid sexy balthier wah-wah about wah-wah xbox ps3 3ds nintendo wii sephiroth! sephiroth! you don't know jack garland
The Final Fantasy III DS remake was in a weird spot.
Matrix Software wanted to do new things with the game like making all the classes viable, but also tried to stay somewhat faithful to the original Famicom game 'cuz most of the world hadn't played it...often in ways that feel archaic and unfriendly for a remake.
And they also wanted to go all in on showing off what DS 3D could do, but the platform was not really built all that well for that...especially not when it's a game released in the second year of the platform's life and is only the second game Matrix had made for the platform at all.
I've played it on PSP and even with fast forward on it's still too slow.
I remember enough of III on DS/PSP that I know generally where to go in this version, but I'm having a way better time. To be charitable, maybe that's because as discussed above, this is a streamlined version with QoL updates, which isn't really what the DS/PSP version was for. I just felt like that version was a slog. To say something nice about it, I kind of miss the personalites the Onion Knights were given there. Not that being able to name my own characters is bad or anything, but it was nice there was a little backstory or whatever to them.
R.R. Bigman
Coolest Guy
Can you target multiple enemies with spells in FFX?
R.R. Bigman
Coolest Guy
So I haven’t missed a way to Firaga a group of enemies or Curaga the party all at once? I went through around half of FF6 without knowing multi-targeting spElla was an option, because I am a doof.
Uncompressed soundtrack audio is a beast, generally speaking.
E: after taking a look, most of the assets aren't compressed much if at all, the asset folder is about 90% of the total game file size.
E: after taking a look, most of the assets aren't compressed much if at all, the asset folder is about 90% of the total game file size.
FF6 is and always has been my favorite, though it's been a very long time since I revisited it. I had it as FF3 on the SNES, and along with Chrono Trigger it forms a huge chunk of my most precious childhood nostalgia core.
I've never actually played FF1 or 2. I played the DS FF3 and liked it a lot, but never quite finished it (despite sinking like 80 hours into it somehow?? I might be misremembering that). FF4, I emulated back in college and thought it was OK; FF5 I played on PS1 when it came out with FF6 in Anthology, and it didn't really grab me.
But it's been so long since I've played even the ones (...the one) I love, that I don't mind supporting these if they're actually good remakes and diving in to do some retro messing around.
Although, shit, if Switch is going to be stuck without font fixes and stuff like that......
...You say you can play Steam games on mobile, somehow?
I've never actually played FF1 or 2. I played the DS FF3 and liked it a lot, but never quite finished it (despite sinking like 80 hours into it somehow?? I might be misremembering that). FF4, I emulated back in college and thought it was OK; FF5 I played on PS1 when it came out with FF6 in Anthology, and it didn't really grab me.
But it's been so long since I've played even the ones (...the one) I love, that I don't mind supporting these if they're actually good remakes and diving in to do some retro messing around.
Although, shit, if Switch is going to be stuck without font fixes and stuff like that......
...You say you can play Steam games on mobile, somehow?
Coming off Final Fantasy III, the first Final Fantasy sure is pretty dull. This version seems as easy as the Dawn of Souls version, though maybe it's because I went with the standard Fighter/Monk/White Mage/Black Mage party as opposed to something more difficult. I haven't grinded at all (not even for Gil) and haven't met with any particular challenge (though I've had the occasional death in battle, I've not yet finished a battle with anyone dead, so everyone's experience levels are identical). Just beat Mt Gulg, for reference. Hopefully the difficulty ramps up soon.
Remaster is fine, graphics and music are good and all that. I just don't think I like the first FF very much.
Remaster is fine, graphics and music are good and all that. I just don't think I like the first FF very much.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
Going by Brickroads playthrough, the only challenge was the final battle, which seemed to me like a giant difficulty spike.
The thing about FF I and difficulty is, that even the NES game isn't really difficult. You need to know certain things (that you need pro-rings against instant-death, that there are healing items, which spells are actually useful,...), but if you know that stuff, it is a pretty easy game. Sure, you might get stunlocked to death, be turned to stone by Horrible Birds or just die in the Ice Cave, because there are monsters with instant death attacks (or spells?), while you don't have access to protection against that yet. But these things aren't difficult, they are just dice rolls, pure chance (which you can change in your favour, by leveling, but that doesn't change anything, I think). Take out this stuff, explore the land without looking anything up (so you fight enough random battles) and the game is easy enough. And it only gets easier, as time goes on. That was at least my experience, when playing through the NES version in December.
The thing about FF I and difficulty is, that even the NES game isn't really difficult. You need to know certain things (that you need pro-rings against instant-death, that there are healing items, which spells are actually useful,...), but if you know that stuff, it is a pretty easy game. Sure, you might get stunlocked to death, be turned to stone by Horrible Birds or just die in the Ice Cave, because there are monsters with instant death attacks (or spells?), while you don't have access to protection against that yet. But these things aren't difficult, they are just dice rolls, pure chance (which you can change in your favour, by leveling, but that doesn't change anything, I think). Take out this stuff, explore the land without looking anything up (so you fight enough random battles) and the game is easy enough. And it only gets easier, as time goes on. That was at least my experience, when playing through the NES version in December.
Finished with all three now. I think people really need to play III especially, as the previously most accessible version of it has been so pronouncedly divisive; with this version, there's very little to critique with the new particularities of the remasters suiting the game's structure and pace exceedingly well. If there's any game of the three that would be reassessed as a result of the treatment here, it would be this one. It wasn't personally revelatory as I've played and loved it many times before, but there are no caveats left in allowing the game shine for what it is at this point, except I guess a platform of preference for some.
I don't know if I really have big wants for the material as presented here. II has its myriad of mechanical changes that are undeniably present but remain fairly academic to me in practice; they didn't really affect the way I thought or interacted with the game. III, like the others, has an extremely capable and consistent arranged soundtrack, but some tracks laid it on a little too thick with the electric guitar and choral chanting in uninteresting tonal explorations of the material. Those are maybe the only things I raised an eyebrow at, because there's just not much to be disappointed by or even to single out specific strong points as it's mostly all so well done throughout.
Favourite Job in III was... Bard, surprisingly. I try to avoid using traditional healing in any RPG that provides alternatives, so before the final dungeon's later sections a Bard was all I had all game, singing their songs every turn in battle, providing underpowered but frequent and importantly, resource-free healing. Job levels have them learn a few new songs providing some versatility to their use, like an attack buff or status ailment infliction on the enemy party, which kept things as interesting as this game's system generally can allow. A lot of the Jobs are made more distinct here in similar ways, and generally more powerful--when the Dark Knight-centered dungeons with the dividing enemies came along, I didn't feel like playing that game and found my existing load-out to be just fine for getting through all of it. I've always liked the straightforward problem --> solution design of III and I don't think it's any different in this remaster--just the answers have been made individually more compelling so the questions themselves can be subverted a little along the way.
I don't know if I really have big wants for the material as presented here. II has its myriad of mechanical changes that are undeniably present but remain fairly academic to me in practice; they didn't really affect the way I thought or interacted with the game. III, like the others, has an extremely capable and consistent arranged soundtrack, but some tracks laid it on a little too thick with the electric guitar and choral chanting in uninteresting tonal explorations of the material. Those are maybe the only things I raised an eyebrow at, because there's just not much to be disappointed by or even to single out specific strong points as it's mostly all so well done throughout.
Favourite Job in III was... Bard, surprisingly. I try to avoid using traditional healing in any RPG that provides alternatives, so before the final dungeon's later sections a Bard was all I had all game, singing their songs every turn in battle, providing underpowered but frequent and importantly, resource-free healing. Job levels have them learn a few new songs providing some versatility to their use, like an attack buff or status ailment infliction on the enemy party, which kept things as interesting as this game's system generally can allow. A lot of the Jobs are made more distinct here in similar ways, and generally more powerful--when the Dark Knight-centered dungeons with the dividing enemies came along, I didn't feel like playing that game and found my existing load-out to be just fine for getting through all of it. I've always liked the straightforward problem --> solution design of III and I don't think it's any different in this remaster--just the answers have been made individually more compelling so the questions themselves can be subverted a little along the way.
Sprite
(He/Him/His)
Marsh Cave is such a hilarious example of early RPGs not quite knowing what good design is. I can’t imagine trying to slog through that pointlessly huge final floor as a kid. Though there is a certain charm to running in screaming, fleeing every battle, grabbing the crown and then getting out of dodge.
It wouldn't even be that bad if 90% of the monsters in there didn't poison and absolutely murder anyone not a kitted out fighter with their regular attacks. Like, the gargoyles and general packs of undead are annoying but pretty easy to deal with but everything else is just a wall of pain and misery. Nothing else in the game even comes close, including the final dungeon.
12-year-old me had the Nintendo Power strategy guide to mitigate the worst of it, but it was just kind of the thing back then.
That's why OG Dragon Quest V annoyed me so much. By 1992 everyone else already knew better, yet here was Enix, still insisting that what they were doing was okay.
The chance of mortality is so high there that it could just as well be called the Ice Grave - where the hopes and dreams for your run go to die.
If they didn't already die in the Marsh Grave.
Yeah, but Ice Cave is just raw murder. Marsh Cave punishes you, and then keeps punishing you even if you manage to run away mostly intact.
There is an art to JRPG dungeon crawling, and Dragon Quest is the only franchise that has ever consistently got it right across its entire lifetime. The rest of the industry all but abandoned this design space for a couple big reasons: 1) it's really hard to do it well, and 2) it has pretty niche audience appeal even when it's executed effectively. I'd say Final Fantasy stopped trying to do this from 6 onward.
Yeah, Ice Cave was annoying lol. But by then, I had 99 Antidotes and I was so flush with cash that I had 20+ Phoenix Downs, so it wasn't too bad ultimately. Never wiped, in any case. The problem with it was it wasn't interesting - as MB said, the encounters were either pathetically easy, or you'd occasionally just get killed, no in between.
Beat Chaos last night, and you all were right! That was a difficulty spike. I loved it! Ended up beating it with my half dead Knight being the only guy still alive, luckily getting the last blow in before Hasted Chaos killed him. I wish the rest of the game had fights as interesting as that one!
Looking forward to playing FF2 again, and am excited to see what tweaks they do with 4-6 whenever those come out. These Pixel Remasters are great!
Beat Chaos last night, and you all were right! That was a difficulty spike. I loved it! Ended up beating it with my half dead Knight being the only guy still alive, luckily getting the last blow in before Hasted Chaos killed him. I wish the rest of the game had fights as interesting as that one!
Looking forward to playing FF2 again, and am excited to see what tweaks they do with 4-6 whenever those come out. These Pixel Remasters are great!
The thing you have to understand about FF1's difficulty is that it was balanced around very limited revival: no Phoenix Downs, and LIFE was only castable out of battle and only by White Mages and Red Wizards, sharing a level with Curaga, Healra, Diaga, Firaga, and Warp. That means that it's only castable by one or two frail party members, and it competes for spell slots with some very potent alternatives. (White Wizards could eventually get LIF2, but that's still out-of-battle only, and you'd rather be casting Holy.)
So the reason that there's very little middle ground between "very easy" and "total party wipe" is largely because the game was balanced around having to hobble out of the last half of a dungeon with half your party irrecoverably dead. Phoenix Downs and Ethers throw all that out the window.
So the reason that there's very little middle ground between "very easy" and "total party wipe" is largely because the game was balanced around having to hobble out of the last half of a dungeon with half your party irrecoverably dead. Phoenix Downs and Ethers throw all that out the window.
I see. So, in it's original form, it was even more annoying lol (I say this because I don't find instant death interesting in RPGs - one of the things I adored about SMT4 Apocalypse was they changed the dark and light spells to not be instakill but to instead be another damage type. That's far more interesting than just "does it kill me or the enemy instantly y/n"). I mean, not being able to cast LIFE in battle is fine, but I'm glad the series got away from random encounters that either plinked your characters for like 1 HP or instantly killed them. Happy mediums are good!
That means we can presumably rule out console ports getting announced until the middle of October at the earliest
And in most cases enemy means an enemy that is so weak it isn't even worth wasting a spell charge or MP on them.
I'm of the opinion that balance/design/marsh cave/etc problems aren't just products of the game's historical context and the huge amount of experimentation that went into its genesis but contribute to the game's unique identity. Bugs too. These idiosyncrasies are core to making Final Fantasy Final Fantasy and part of the appeal. Modern QoL and balance changes do make the game easier to engage with but also alter that identity (like in Mogri's example above).
Does the remake not "work" because QoL additions cut away a lot of the bite? Does the original not "work" because Marsh cave is big and unfair? I don't find these type of question helpful to understanding the game. Clearly it and the remakes have worked for many people over the years and for a variety of reasons, and remain compelling to this day, marsh cave and all.
Does the remake not "work" because QoL additions cut away a lot of the bite? Does the original not "work" because Marsh cave is big and unfair? I don't find these type of question helpful to understanding the game. Clearly it and the remakes have worked for many people over the years and for a variety of reasons, and remain compelling to this day, marsh cave and all.
For sure. Really all I want anyone to take away from my posts is "if you don't like FF1 all that much, don't skip out on FF2 or 3 because you may enjoy them." Probably the best thing about the FF series is how each game is so wildly different from the last that there's bound to be something you like in there somewhere.
Granted, there’s something to be said for the first dungeon not being a titanic difficulty spike, the likes of which the rest of the game can’t compare to