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The Road Not Travelled: Let's Read Marvels WHAT IF...

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
This story definitely was written after, at the time it takes place… I don’t think it was known, but I can’t seem to find when that was revealed.

In any case, his stated reasons are more that he’s concerned with Avenging earth based crimes and not Asgardian issues,
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
What If? 25 was released in 1980 and the Wiki says he learned Magneto was his father "not long after" his daughter Luna was born in Fantastic Four 240, released in 1982.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
clean.jpg

Well, we’ve got another multi-story issue this time. But the average quality is a bit higher than the last couple. Also I accidentally deleted my notes so I don’t have the credits on hand, but the title story was drawn by Herb Trimpe and… not good Herb Trimpe.

Uatu kicks things off this issue by showing my own ignorance of Captain America (a character who I really like, but really only follow when he’s in a team book), talking about the time he was approached to act as a third party candidate for a presidential election. A position he turned down as he was busying himself Avenging, and making those who oppose his shield Yield.

I don’t know if this was the outcome of a big Cap story, or just a one-off gag. It was apparently in issue #250, according to the narration box, but that’s all I can say about my knowledge of it.

But regardless, this is Uatus school bus, and he’s driving, so let’s see what happened if Captain America DID run for President under that flimsy pretext!

As it turns out; he really should have done this years ago; based on a platform of “I will unmask myself if elected President” (the question of how public Steves identity is used to be pretty murky waters) and “I am literally Captain America”, Steve absolutely smokes both Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter at the poles. Really helped that every superhero was quick to endorse him, even as they claimed to be apolitical.

(Reed Richards claimed to be apolitical, but half the decisions he made in the first few years of FF were based on one-upping the Russians)

Also his running mate, and VP was a guy named Andrew Jackson Hawk, which I really thought was going to turn out to be a thinly disguised Nighthawk, but nope; being a black congressman who had Hawk right in his name was just a coincidence.

Anyway, mirroring reality to an extent, and in what is easily my favorite moment of this issue, just after Cap is sworn in, William Hinkley tries to assassinate him. And Caps reaction to the gunman is to throw the secret service agents to the ground to protect them, then chase after Hinkley himself and escort him to a hospital where he can get the psychiatric care he needs.

The Secret Service guys then realize they’ve just landed the safest job they’re ever going to get.

Also, Cap follows through on his other political promise by publicity revealing himself to be Steve Rogers during his inauguration to which the world collectively says “Oh… okay.”, which is also great.

Another political promise (which Uatu phrases in a much more problematic way) is addressing Americas energy crisis and reliance on petroleum by funding and building a massive orbital solar collector, powerful enough to provide free energy to the entire country forever.

All in all… Cap is easily the best president the countries ever had. The closest thing his cabinets ever had to a scandal is him pitching in to support a rebel uprising against a tyrannical regime in South America (again, lost my notes so I don’t recall which country involved; or even if it’s a real place; let’s say… Madrigal). The other members of congress don’t want to support the rebel uprising because Vietnam only still a fresh wound and the idea of getting involved with a mess like that again wasn’t high on anyones to-do list. Luckily, neither does Cap and his support is just giving them a bunch of Tony Stark designed laser guns, that use that solar collector to shoot big ol’ Independence Day beams at people.

So he does, and that rebel uprising goes great (ain’t nobody wants to get Emmeriched), and Cap is invited to the new President of Madrigals mansion to reward him for his aide.

And Cap goes, because he’s a good sport, and wants to foster healthy relations with this new regime he installed. And besides, he feels an odd kind of kinship with the new ruler; like they were very similar people who grew up in different countries.

And he didn’t really have as much time as he would have liked to have kept pulling on that particular thread before he’s knocked out and chained in the new presidential dungeon. And the new president of Madrigal takes off his mask to reveal that he IS like a mirror of Cap from a different set of circumstances; because it’s the friggin’ Red Skull!

The Skull explains that he had the rebel leader secretly killed and replaced months ago, and Caps generous donation of advanced laser weapons really sped up his takeover of the country; which would have been bad enough, but the Skull also learned how to reverse engineer the lasers power source; instead turning the solar collector into a gargantuan orbital death-ray aimed squarely at the US!

Luckily, Red Skull is going to Red Skull, and he spends so long monologuing after he hijacks every TV in the world to brag about his absolute victory over his hated enemy and his impending destruction of America, that he fails to notice Cap… umm… shimmy his legs out of his cell, grab his shield with his feet and kick it straight up and through his chains.

Guys I read this comic two days ago and I’ve been stewing over how this sequence is supposed to have happened and I got nothing.

Anyway, Caps free, he’s looking at a nazi, and he wastes no time in just absolutely wrecking that critter. He takes the time to reverse the solar cannons aim so it’ll destroy the mansion he’s in, and otherwise goes all out fighting the Skull so he won’t have a chance to reset the canon himself; even as the space lasers burns the entire countryside to ash.

Cap leaves the world as he entered it; just beating the absolute hell out of the worst nazi in the world.

Later, Caps still warm Shield is interred in Washington as his former VP eulogizes Cap because, you know… he would. But on another plus side to Caps term, we got a Black president 25 years early.

BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?
As I said, I really like Cap but have read very few comics he’s starred in. He’s quite famous for occasionally being so disgusted with the US Government that he dropped all associations with America from his name, and did take over for SHIELD, but that’s supposed to be more of an international group. No political aspirations that I’m aware of.

Next up we have an unadvertised second story of What if Man-Thing Had Ted Sallis’ Mind! Which presumably Jimmy Shooter didn’t think would sell as well as the Cap thing, since there was no indication it was even in this issue until I saw “The End” on the last one with only half the issue read.

And Uatu doesn’t think it’s that great of a draw either as the first thing out of his mouth is not blaming you for having no idea who Man-Thing is, and gives a quick recap on his whole deal (scientist was working on a new kind of Super Soldier serum, injected himself with it, and coincidentally fell into a magical swamp containing the Nexus of All Reality, turning him into some kind of Swamp Man-Thing; who is a completely unkillable lump of mush who is basically mindless, drawn to powerful emotions, and sets things scared of him on fire.

To be fair, I’d be scared of a mush-man who is setting people on fire as soon as they’re uncomfortable with him too

Anyhow, as this story goes, one of Sallis’ lab partners who knows what happened to his buddy has a theory about reversing the transformation, but couldn’t communicate it to the soldiers assigned to kill the swamp monster on the crimes of… setting people on fire all the time, and wound up dying as a result of trying to save the Man Thing from the soldiers firing at him.

WELL, this time, he does a better job of talking down the soldiers before any gun violence could happen, and their commander agrees to let the doctor try, figuring that, worst case scenario, he’ll be killed by a rampaging swamp monster, and best case, he’ll have the means to create new unstoppable bio-horror super-soldiers. It's basically the plot of Resident Evil 2.

Anyway, a few weeks pass, and the scientists plan does, in fact, work; Man-Thing can't properly communicate (he lacks anything resembling a mouth, and can't really operate a keyboard or pen with his big gross muck fingers), but he's clearly regained his old intellect. That's the good news. The bad news is that he didn't get any of his old morality with it and his monstrous new body brings a monstrous personality with it ; Sallis is full of cunning, devoid of empathy, completely invulnerable and chock-full of the energy from the Nexus of All Reality.

And the worst news is that while the lab assistant was busy creating an indestructible swamp blob mad scientist, the army was busy studying Man-Thing themselves and figured out how to replicate the transformation themselves; so they pull the plug on the lab and have the lab assistant killed to cover up all lose ends.

This story is really coming down in a VERY different place from the last one in regard to positive portrayal of governing bodies.

Anyway, Sallis doesn't care about his former friend being killed, he's just concerned with getting back to the swamp that spawned him so he can absorb more of the Nexus' power and use it to conquer the rest of this world, and all points beyond it; and uses his Swamp God powers to also murder all the soldiers so that they won't be able to make any new Man-Things to challenge his conquest; as he heads into the heart of the swamp.

Unfortunately for Teddy, the army wasn't experimenting with making *man*-Things, they were making CROCODILE-things! And the Croc-Thing they proved their serum worked with broke free of the lab during Sallis' attack and also made its way to the Nexus; before Sallis could get there; and was similarly empowered.

So the -things, both Man and Croc fight, and are pretty evenly matched; and Sallis' intimidation from seeing a giant anthropomorphic crocodile made of fungus overpowering him causes him to panic a bit; and All that Knows Fear Burns at the Man-Things Touch.

And that translates to Sallis accidentally burning himself to death; leaving the Crocodile-Thing as the sole protector of the Nexus of Reality

BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!
Just got in under the wire for this one, but yep! The(very) recent Curse of the Man-Thing miniseries concludes with Ted Sallis renegotiating the terms of the magical ritual that made him Man-Thing; leaving him a goop-monster and protector of the Nexus, but restoring his full sentience (and also a new villain stealing Man-Things abilities in order to wreak a terrible vengeance upon the world). Ted's a LOT more sympathetic here though, as it's implied that spending decades sitting in the passenger seat of your own body as its turned into a plant monster really gives you a chance to re-evaluate your lifes decisions.

Oh, and there's another Eternals back-up story; this time the bunch that went to space before fight a Kree Sentry; but it's not Sentry 459, so I don't care. FOUR FIVE NINE FOR LIFE!

NEXT TIME: What Are Birds?
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
There was that one time Captain America was replaced by a Cosmic Cube-created alternate version of himself who was loyal to Hydra and successfully took over the United States for a while
 

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
COME TO THINK OF IT: Has there ever been an official Marvel (or DC) videogame just based on Elseworld/What If concepts? Injustice has that lovely "bad Earth" thing going on, but it is just an excuse for Superman to be a Mortal Kombat character. Like just a whole "anthology" of a game where Captain America is president this week fighting Red Skull over a space laser, and the next level is, I don't know, Vice President Venom? Seems like it might be fun.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Just Injustice to my knowledge, but the first Marvel Ultimate Alliance had variable endings depending on which side quests you finished; that kinda fits-ish?
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
clean.jpg

Written by Mary Jo Duffy
Pencils by Jerry Bingham
Inks by John Stewart
Colors by Carl Garford

I kind of feel like this is the first What If? issue that actually delivers on the popular opinion on the series; that it's a good thing Marvel History went the way it did because *HOO BOY* could things have gone MUCH worse. It's also the first one that I'd consider a genuine page-turner. Also, the interiors look a lot nicer than the cover.

Anyway, Uatu is earning his paycheque this issue as he's TL;DRing two lengthy, plot-dense major X-Men arcs over the course of, like, two pages for context; and that means I have to condense it further into one paragraph; and I ain't even an omniscient narrator! Jean Grey (alias Marvel Girl) was one of the original X-Men who eventually realized she'd been holding herself back when she was forced to overexert herself, and her psychic powers increased to the point she could resurrect herself from death, give herself a kickass new costume and new code-name as Phoenix. And while that was great at first, she was terrified of how powerful she actually was in this new form, sub-consciously set up limitations on how much she could do. And so the evil mutant Mastermind tried to subtly manipulate her into giving in to her desires and just going hog-wild with the Phoenix Force, without realizing just the size and scope of the bell he was trying to un-ring. He succeeds, Jean goes full on Beast mode, and devours the sun of an inhabited solar system before being taken down by the X-Men, and having her mental blocks reinforced. But, the alien Shi'ar Empire (ancient Rome, but for space birds), concerned by that whole planetary extinction thing decided that wasn't enough, and their empress had the Imperial Guard attack the X-Men to decide Jeans fate; Jean watches all her friends seemingly die at the Guards hands, goes Dark Phoenix again, and realizing she can't possible keep a lid on the power coursing through her, takes her own life before she can wreak any further death and destruction.

So all of that still happens here BUT when the Imperial Guard attacks the X-Men, Jean is one of the first team members taken out, so she doesn't see the rest of her friends get the crap beaten out of them, and so has no inspiration to tap into the Phoenixs power again; instead, the team is still effortlessly taken down and Empress Lilandra is able to enact her punishment on Jean Grey; using advanced Shi'ar technology to lobotomize the part of her brain that wielded the Phoenix Force.

For one thing, this was the original intended ending Chris Claremont and John Byrne wrote for the Dark Phoenix story, but Jim Shooter veto'd it under the rationale that Jean murdered BILLIONS of innocent people, so just losing her super powers is a pretty damn light consequence for that; you can read what survives of the original ending on Tom Brevoorts blog;

For another thing, this is still considered to be a pretty horrific punishment by all the characters; and from Jeans reaction after its over it is treated like she's the survivor of a particularly grim personal assault. But she kind of gets over that very quickly, as the brain surgery changed her personality pretty drastically too; gone is the fiery, secret kinkster of Chris Claremont, or even the competent but side-lined co-leader of Roy Thomas, Jeans regressed back to Stan Lee mode; where she's a simpering, docile housewife.

Regardless, Jean more or less settles into her new role as being a non-powered support member of the X-Men, managing the Danger Room for the new team-line up that exists (nothing too extravagant, Iceman, Havoc, Polaris and Kitty are all here now), and it does seem to help her with her mental state; she really excels at putting all her friends in deadly (but manageable) peril. Plus a Danger Room montage excels at showing off what the X-Men can do for new readers; when an alert comes in to the Xavier School;

As it turns out the Shi'ar need the X-Mens help; one of their planets is under attack by Galactus and the Imperial Guard wouldn't be able to reach it in time to help with the evacuations, but the X-Men can. Initially the team balks at this, figuring that if the Shi'ar wanted their help they probably shouldn't have lobotomized their friend, but it's actually Jean who convinces everyone to help; she's still real torn up about destroying that other planet and is desperate to make amends somehow; and driving off Galactus would be a real balm for her soul.

So they arrive at the planet, and Jean and Kitty hang back with the ship (as they are powerless and a literal child, respectively) while the rest of the team goes off to try to fight Galactus and his herald, Terrax the Tamer. And, well... if the X-Men couldn't stop the Imperial Guard, who were more or less their equals, they are *completely* outclassed by a Herald of Galactus, let alone Galactus himself.

Full credit to Jerry Brigham, he draws the HELL out of this fight; I don't care for Havoc as a character but he always looks SO COOL in a fight scene.

Anyway; Jean is monitoring the fight, and is seeing all her friends being cut down by Terrax, and she snaps; starts burning with a glowing bird-like Aura, regains the Phoenix Force, and tears ass to the battlefield, where she instantly strips Terrax of the Power Cosmic, knocks Galactus flat on his ass, and destroys his Planet Devouring machines. As it turns out; Shi'ar technology wasn't nearly up to the task of removing the Phoenix Force from her mind; it was just hiding until it was needed.

Galactus takes the loss gracefully, explaining that he COULD fight Phoenix for it, but the planet would likely be destroyed long before a winner could be determined, and even if it weren't; he'd expend far more energy than he'd gain by eating it, so he restores Terrax and leaves; but offering a warning that something as powerful as Phoenix obviously is must more energy than he does so she *will* start consuming stars if she keeps it up.

And Jean ain't hearing none of it; she's saved her friends, she's got her powers back, everythings great. She can quit devouring stars any time she wants to!

So another few X-Men stories happen off panel (Days of Future Past is resolved without Time Travel thanks to Jeans psionic powers preventing the events that lead to it ahead of time), and there's a subtle change up to the team dynamic; Kitty is rebuked from forming the bonds she normally did with the rest of the team, so she winds up spending more time with the Professor, who is suffering from mental lapses. Also, Jean is sneaking out late at night and just using her enormous psychic powers frivolously when nobody is watching, just for fun, or messing with the other team members abilities just because she can. And as it turns out, she was burning herself out doing this, so she sneaks off into deep space after everyones gone to sleep to consume and devour the molten core from a couple of uninhabited planets.

Just small, lifeless rocks, no big deal, nobody will notice.

Eventually, Sentinels appear and the team fights them (as you do with Sentinels), but these ones are particularly hardy and the X-Men are once again effortlessly beaten by them (the X-Men have a really bad track record for fighting evil in this issue), and even Jean has a small amount of trouble taking them down and has to get a bit flashy before wrecking them; and while everyone is recovering from their wounds after that fight, she sneaks off to eat a small star; not an inhabited one. Probably none of the planets around it could support life; but, you know... just eating a sun is all.

So yeah... Jean has completely fallen off the wagon for managing the Phoenix Force. This is not a subtle metaphor at all;

And *NOW* things get bad.

When Jean returns to the mansion after discretely annihilating another solar system, she finds the X-Men (lead by Kitty) trying to stage an intervention for her, knowing about her night time excursions to deep space to eat stars and planets, and also that she's been messing with everyones minds so they don't notice. And an intervention is a stressful and possibly dangerous situation at the best of times. This... is not the best of times.

And Jean goes WAY beyond "mean drunk".

And I'm just going to go ahead and put a CW here because the rest of this comic gets surprisingly and possibly upsettingly violent.

When Kitty says she won't let Jean go off and start ripping any more stars apart, Jean responds by burning the skin off her bones; and then scattering the ashes to the wind.

It is... not often a comic gets so graphic with the murder of a 14-year-old, especially in a comic written in the early 1980s.

The rest of the team fares no better; but their deaths are at least less... Mortal Kombat-y; Angel is bashed into the ground with telekinesis; Polaris is simply crushed, Iceman is thrown through a brick wall, Storm is buried alive (with the comment that she'll either be crushed or suffocate before her claustrophobia can trouble her), Havoc is beaten to death after getting a lucky shot on her, and Nightcrawler and Wolverine are simply burned to death by the Phoenixs flames.

Of particular note; Colossus and Wolverine try for a fastball special against Dark Phoenix, and she grabs him out of midair and throws him back; and Jean and Charles have a repeat of their psychic duel from the canon timeline, but Jean isn't subconsciously trying to lose this time, so it resolves the opposite way now and Jean rips his mind to shreds.

Eventually, only Scott is left alive, seeing the woman he loves having just callously murdered everyone he'd ever called a friend (and, again, skeletonized a child), and realizes there's nothing left to save in Jean and also attacks her; only to be struck down as effortlessly as everyone else.

And killing the only man she ever loved is what gets through to Jean after going quite so murder-happy with everyone else; and she takes a look around at the just horrific slaughter she just instigated, and in her rage and grief, just proceeds to let the Phoenix Force out completely; and without the small shred of Jean Greys soul to hold it back; it continues to expand until it destroys the entire Earth and, as Uatu comments from the safety of the 616 timeline; everything else in that universe as well.

WHUFF!

Oh, and there's another Eternals back-up story; this time the Kree show up and are mad that their robot got blown up, so they blow up the Eternals who live in space.

BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!
A LOT of stuff about the Dark Phoenix story has been retconned, so it's kind of hard to say. Later it was revealed that Dark Phoenix was a separate entity that was mimicking Jean Greys form so technically she wasn't involved in it at all, both Jean and the Phoenix returned form the dead pretty frequently (she's called The Phoenix and the first thing she did was bring herself back from the dead, so... that can't have come as a surprise). A later Phoenix centered story (I want to say... Endsong?) also included a scene where she and Galactus sat down to compare notes about Planet v. Star eating.

NEXT TIME: He's like a double-Nick Fury
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
You know, I get the metaphor and all, but there are actually a *lot* of stars out there that have extremely near zero chance of hosting any life. I feel like this whole situation could’ve been managed better for everyone.
 

Jeanie

(Fem or Gender Neutral)
BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!
A LOT of stuff about the Dark Phoenix story has been retconned, so it's kind of hard to say. Later it was revealed that Dark Phoenix was a separate entity that was mimicking Jean Greys form so technically she wasn't involved in it at all, both Jean and the Phoenix returned form the dead pretty frequently (she's called The Phoenix and the first thing she did was bring herself back from the dead, so... that can't have come as a surprise)
Kinda...

So way back in the second arc of the Exiles series, after getting their butts kicked by an evil Charles Xavier, the team was summoned to a timeline where they landed right before the DPSaga. Most of the team was like "no sweat, we've seen how this goes, that's not Jean that's the Phoenix, yadda yadda yadda.. " and Blink has to break the news to them that no, this timeline, that *is* Jean and she's going to eat the universe unless we kill her here. Exiles stop her, all of that universe's X-Men die doing so, and no one leaves happy.
A later Phoenix centered story (I want to say... Endsong?) also included a scene where she and Galactus sat down to compare notes about Planet v. Star eating.
Rachel Summers did this back in Excalibur back in the 90's, that might be the one you're thinking of.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
I am honestly kind of curious about what the writing process is for some of these; given how many of them start a plot thread that I’m sure will be relevant and then just drop it entirely.

Is it just a red herring so the reader is blindsided by what the actual twist is? Was it just in the first draft and they had to leave it in to pad out the extended page count? A weird breakdown in the Marvel Method where the writer gives a bunch of plot threads and the artist picks one at random? All of the above?
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
I actually owned this issue but never cracked it open. My Aunt and Uncle bought me some frames and put in some old Marvel Comics including an Alpha Flight and a Human Torch meets Son of Satan.
 

Büge

Arm Candy
(she/her)
You know, I get the metaphor and all, but there are actually a *lot* of stars out there that have extremely near zero chance of hosting any life. I feel like this whole situation could’ve been managed better for everyone.
Maybe main-sequence stars just taste better.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Just was idly curious here; so of the stories in the 27 issues covered so far;

World Winds Up Better: 7
Effectively Canon: 3
Minimal Changes: 4
No One Dies, World Worse: 4
One or More Characters Dead: 11
Everyone Dead: 2

Give or take some personal judgements on what counts as an improvement, or how permanent someone dying is in a superhero comic, it seems like What Ifs almost always end better than they started
 

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
I am honestly kind of curious about what the writing process is for some of these; given how many of them start a plot thread that I’m sure will be relevant and then just drop it entirely.

Is it just a red herring so the reader is blindsided by what the actual twist is? Was it just in the first draft and they had to leave it in to pad out the extended page count? A weird breakdown in the Marvel Method where the writer gives a bunch of plot threads and the artist picks one at random? All of the above?

Maybe I am conflating purposes versus fan reaction versus how much some of the writers of the era were giant nerds not beholden to some corporate mandates but anyway I remember from my re-read of What Ifs versus their actual source comics (which was when I was a college student with way too much free time and is now approximately 10,000 years ago), there were a lot of "plot hooks" that were in the original running comics that kind of seemed like they were mentioned again in the What If as a kind of nod to continuity and "of course Green Goblin would still try this in this new timeline", even if noting that plot point had no relevance to the actual What If plot. There are also a few what if stories that stuck in my mind as something based on a plot that happened twenty years prior to its "revisiting" issue, and seemed like an excuse to retcon, like, Dr. Doom always being there at the beginning or whatever, it just wasn't mentioned at the time of the "real" original issue. Just tossing in some plot point to note that the Marvel Universe was always one big cohesive unit, true believers!

Anyway, What Ifs: a land of contrasts.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
clean.jpg

Well we've got another two-fer in this one, and they're BOTH good this time! And, blessedly, the end of that Eternals back-up!

So, despite what the cover promised, we're kicking off with the B-story this time, with What if Ghost Rider Were Separated from Johnny Blaze (written by Micheal Fleisher, with art by Tom Sutton)! A story which puts a slight twist on a recent Ghost Rider story arc that, honestly could have worked just fine in the regular book except for the ending. As history had it, however, an evil, ancient wizard had a hair in his craw about the fact that his magic was nearly spent after prolonging his life by a millenia or two, and had the idea of casting a spell to separate Johnny Blaze from the Spirit of Vengeance, then steal the Ghost Riders power for himself, and recharge his batteries with that; and also gaining all of GRs infernal powers to boot. A plan which Johnny WOULD have been okay with (he doesn't like being a flaming skeleton half the time) except that being separated from the Spirit was going to kill them both, and without Johnnys soul to reign in its destructive impulses, the Rider is an unstoppable and merciless killing machine (as we'd seen in a previous What If and... many other Ghost Rider comics). So he breaks the spell; reunites with the Spirit and then kills the wizard.

I didn't think to write down the wizards name, so I'mma call him Gargamel.

Anyway, this time, Uatu says "Oh like a stunt rider could beat a very, very very old wizard" and HENCE asks What If He Didn't!

Well, the good news for Poppa Blazes' boy is that while Gargamel is a wizard with a millennia of experience, he's also got a millennia worth of getting old and frail and losing his powers; so he isn't able to put enough oomph into his spells to kill Johnny with any magic missiles or the like. The BAD news is that the rest of his plan goes off without a hitch and he's able to take the Spirit of Vengeance into himself no trouble.

The Rider doesn't mind since Gargamel is willing to oblige him with his whole "murder people" thing.

More good news for Johnny is that Gargamel doesn't opt to kill him then and there himself; instead he dramatically proclaims he will destroy the Pearl of Christendom and drives over the ocean on his hell-cycle. Fortunately, Johnny is better read than I am and knows that The Pearl of Christendom is a very old-timey name for the Papal Seat of the Vatican, and realizes THAT A SKELETON IS GOING TO KILL THE POPE!

This leads to an honestly pretty fun sequence where Johnny has to go through some increasingly ludicrous hoops in order to get from San Francisco to Italy even though he has no money, no ID and his only means to travel previously had been a cursed motorcycle powered by hellfire.

"I don't know why people always want to give bikers a hard time" Johnny Blaze grumbles, as he drives through a crossing guard station, hijacks a plan for a trans-continental flight and then steals a second motorcycle when he lands."

This entire sequence takes precisely as long as a demonically powered evil wizard to travel to Rome on a Hellcycle, apparently, and he spends some more time fighting the Popes Swiss Guard; since apparently a bunch of guys in stripey tunics wielding halberds is a worthwhile obstacle for The Spirit of Vengeance.

Anyway, Johnny shows up in Rome just as Gargamel can finish killing the Swiss Guard, but trips and hurts his leg (*great* showing, Johnny), which leads to the Riders leg also being hurt; letting them both know that while the Spirit of Vengeance and Johnnys bodies are separated, their souls aren't; and if one is injured the other will be hurt too; so Gargamel is, for one thing, relived he didn't go ahead and kill Johnny earlier, and for another thing, decides to just chain him to the wall and stay nearby to make sure no other harm can befall him while he inacts his actual evil plan;

He's going to summon a Hellsword, and use it to kill the Pope in an Unholy Ritual, thereby making him the ruler of All Christians!

Or at least all Catholics. Which is still *pretty bad*, I guess but less apocalyptic than everyone is making it sound, but I'm not going to start pulling threads at the logic of how magically killing the pope with an infernal sword works.

Luckily, Gargamel made one major blunder when he chained Johnny Blaze to a wall; the Vatican is a really old building and it's got some real bad structural problems; so Johnny was able to free himself by just yanking the chains out of the wall! Then he grabs The Unholy Sword, and stabs Ghost Rider with it; killing the Spirit of Vengeance (not... sure what that means for it, really), and with it, Gargamel and also Johnny himself.

But the Pope was saved, and with it, the lives of a percentage of the followers of a major religion.

Call it a mitigated success.

BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!?
Johnny, and the later Ghost Riders, get separated from the Spirit of Vengeance a *lot*; to the extent that the Spirit of Vengeance itself is ranked as being a Ghost Rider villain in some lists; and he always winds up needing to remerge with it sooner or later. Two recent situations of particular note being when Johnny gave up the Spirit of Vengeance in order to take over the Throne of Hell as King Blaze, and then deciding he wanted it back so he can be a DOUBLE DEMON, and Johnny brother Danny losing his own connection to the Spirit and immediately bonding himself to a different but VERY similar Spirit of Corruption as the Spirit Rider.

And the headlining story, we have What if Daredevil Were An Agent of SHIELD (Mike Barr and Frank Miller share all the credits on this one) and I'll be completely upfront, I've never liked Frank Miller, even before he turned into what he became, but MAN, this is a GOOD LOOKING story; this is a solid contender for being the best drawn comic in the entire What If line so far. That being said; the story itself is a kind of confusing mess.

In this case, it's not the outcome of any one particular story that marks where reality changes lanes; but the pedestrians nearby when young Matt Murdock got himself a face full of radioactive goo. Specifically, in this timeline, Tony Stark happens to be nearby when Matt has his accident, and he blames himself (the truck full of radioactive goo was one from one of his labs) and rushes the injured kid to... one of his miiltary contacts; Nick Fury of SHIELD, on board the newly created Helicarrier.

And when I say he rushed the kid to Nick Fury, I mean he didn't stop to explain himself to the crowd, or talk to any doctors or send a message to Matts father saying "hey, your kids been in a car accident" or anything.

Tony is quick to blame himself for problems and the absolute worst for critical decision making to alleviate these problems.

Anyway, while in SHIELDS care, the doctors Nick assigned to help Matt (because he DOES stop to consider problems before adding to them) discover that Matt was rendered completely blind after getting a couple of eyeballs full of toxic waste, BUT all the rest of his senses were heightened to superhuman levels; and so Fury decides to recruit him then and there for SHIELD; Matts boosted senses and natural athleticism could make him an exceptional field agent, even without his eyes, and the big fat Government Contractor paycheques he'd pull in would mean his dad wouldn't have to worth with mob bookies in order to pay the bills, leading to an early and ignoble death!

They don't phrase it like that, mind you; Nick Fury is well connected, but he didn't predict mob-related death in the near future. And another misfortune he didn't predict for Matt Murdocks dad is him being targeted by HYDRA and kidnapped; because they were apparently quick to look for leverage against any possible SHIELD agents!

Matts dad, incidentally, STILL does not know his son was in a car accident, or blinded, or drafted into a clandestine spy organization or anything.

Things get confusing here as Matt then uses his super-hearing to notice Nick Furys heart rate change when he asks about his dad and determines that must mean his dad has been kidnapped and then either tries to defect from SHIELD to join HYDRA in order to barter for his freedom, or else tries to launch a solo-rescue mission hoping he can just guess where the HYDRA base his dad is being held in is or he's hotdogging it to try to show off that he's capable of joining a rescue mission to save his dad.

In any case, one of these possible situations worked to a greater or lesser extent, as Nick has discovered the whereabouts of the HYDRA base Matts dad is being held in and Matt was invited to join the strike team to bring it down and save his dad; and he succeeds at this swimmingly, and we get to see a nice lengthy fight scene of Daredevil just pounding the crap out of HYDRA goons in the dark and ultimately saving his dad, and gives him the good news that he's going to be a super spy.

And also that he's blind and this made him a hyper-competent acrobat.

Also, I think he's still, like, 13, and that feels kind of young for having a job as a government counter-spy.

Well, whatever, the pays good.

BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!?!
As I said before, Daredevil isn't a character I'm deeply familiar with, and as far as I'm aware, typically stays in his lane and deals with gangsters and the like; not so much the international intrigue and spy kind of thing. On the other hand; everything about Daredevil as a superhero really lends himself well to the GI Joe-esque situations that SHIELD constantly has to deal with, so I'd be honestly pretty surprised if this didnt ever happen in some capacity.

NEXT TIME: At this point, they're just Vengers
 

Jeanie

(Fem or Gender Neutral)
BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!?!
As I said before, Daredevil isn't a character I'm deeply familiar with, and as far as I'm aware, typically stays in his lane and deals with gangsters and the like; not so much the international intrigue and spy kind of thing. On the other hand; everything about Daredevil as a superhero really lends himself well to the GI Joe-esque situations that SHIELD constantly has to deal with, so I'd be honestly pretty surprised if this didnt ever happen in some capacity.
Yep, Bendis wrote a mini series called Secret War(not Wars as in plural, War, singular) in 2005 where Fury recruits a bunch of superheroes, including Daredevil, to perform a coup in Latveria, which was at the time not being lead by Dr. Doom, because of fears of Latveria doing "a 9/11 times a million" and yeah it really wasn't very good, even by Bendis standards.
 

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
Yep, Bendis wrote a mini series called Secret War(not Wars as in plural, War, singular) in 2005 where Fury recruits a bunch of superheroes, including Daredevil, to perform a coup in Latveria, which was at the time not being lead by Dr. Doom, because of fears of Latveria doing "a 9/11 times a million" and yeah it really wasn't very good, even by Bendis standards.

It's been a while, but I am also moderately certain this plot was recycled to be the "new" inciting incident of... I want to say Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2? Whichever one did its own spin on Civil War. The whole "Fury secret avengers versus Latvaria" thing was definitely the first level.
 

Jeanie

(Fem or Gender Neutral)
Yep, that's the one. At least Secret War gave some decent new costumes for people

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The Cap one was made into a figure and the Spidey and Daredevil one made it into games.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
As I said before, Daredevil isn't a character I'm deeply familiar with, and as far as I'm aware, typically stays in his lane and deals with gangsters and the like; not so much the international intrigue and spy kind of thing. On the other hand; everything about Daredevil as a superhero really lends himself well to the GI Joe-esque situations that SHIELD constantly has to deal with, so I'd be honestly pretty surprised if this didnt ever happen in some capacity.
In the late nineties before Daredevil was repopularized by Kevin Smith in the Marvel Knight imprint (so 90s a sentence), there was a Karl Kesel run that according to the issues of Wizard I was reading at the time was underrated. I specifically remember there being a four part story called Flying Blind, where Matt Murdock is brainwashed into thinking he's a SHIELD agent. Looking it up I found this was in a period shortly after Karl's run and after a Joe Kelly run. And the story was by Scott Lobdell so... probably isn't good? I feel like Marvel was kind of checked out anyway at this point, the original run ends one issue later with a generic sounding "Daredevil foils the Kingpin" story from Dan G. Chichester where he fights some old foes and while it might be intended as a victory lap, it looks like a whimper.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I guess it's pretty weird that one of the best sustained comic runs on a superhero this century began with Kevin Smith fridging Karen Page.
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
clean.jpg

Not gonna lie, folks; I went in full of trepidation for this one; do you know how bad a story would have to be for the cover blurb to apologize for it right up front? Usually, at worst, it makes a promise of being "The Most Off-Beat Issue of the Year" or something. Luckily... I actually really liked this one? The stories are complete messes, but they look amazing. Having some real nice art really balms the soul. Also; perhaps a new standard for being a weird placement of Smug Thor in the corner

Anyway, it's another two story issue (and the Eternals back-up was replaced with an Inhumans one which... I still don't care about) and both are Written by Steve Grant. And the first of them is the titular What if The Avengers Defeated Everyone? (Art by Alan Kupperberg and Al Gordon). And it... is a doozy of a set-up. It's essentially expanding on and UN What If-ing a canon What If that almost happened, courtesy of several instances of Kang the Conqueror trying to scupper the plans of another Kang the Conqueror, none of whom are actually Kang the Conqueror. 10 of the stories 20 pages are fully dedicated to just explaining the set-up.

So I'mma do my best here, bear with me.

So, way back in Avengers Annual #2 (I wanna say... 1967?) the then-current Avengers team (Giant Man/Goliath, Wasp, Captain America, Hawkeye and Black Panther) were recruited by the sometimes evil, time-manipulating wizard Immortus (actually a time-variant of Kang the Conqueror mainly dedicated to stopping other instances of Kang from screwing up history any worse than he already had) when he learned that one of the other, more consistently evil variants of Kang (the Scarlet Centurion, who looked like a combination of Onslaught, Hawkeye and The Wrecker, it's a terrible costume) had travelled back in time to when the Avengers first formed in order to manipulate them to his own ends. The Centurion (who we then learn in a flashback, is specifically a variant of Rama Tut, the Kang that decided for a Mummy motif) uses... basically no evidence whatsoever in order to convince the Avengers that the conflict between superbeings will eventually destroy the planet, and the only way to prevent that is for the Avengers to go ahead and Kill Every Superhero themselves, and set themselves up as dictators of Earth. And they go ahead with it, leading to a split time-line that is a fascist dystopia run by Tony Stark. The Then Present (or future?) Avengers arrived, then and beat up their crappier doppelgangers, and exposed the Centurion for the villain he is, and erased that timeline from existence.

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Okay... so... okay...

This time, Uatu asks "What if Immortus DIDN'T recruit anyone to try to stop something that a different him already did previously in the future!"

It's okay, you can take a minute for that nosebleed you just got trying to comprehend the set-up here to heal. Hold your nose forward and get a cold compress.

Okay, so... okay, as it turns out, the remaining Avengers don't actually want to follow through on the whole "Fascist Dystopia where only they can be arbiters of superhero jurisdiction" part of the Centurions plan, and decide to leave well enough alone after they'd concluded murdering the full expanse of Marvels entire publication history, and went their separate ways. Tony feels some degree of regret over... umm... mass murder and moans that the fast pace lifestyle of a millionaire playboy and international arms dealer just isn't as much fun without having to occasionally put on a suit of armor and shoot people with repulser rays, and that's about as close as anyone has to remorse over their decisions. Janet and Hank got married and Thor left for Asgard because Earth doesn't have any crime anymore thanks to all the murders he did.

Weirdly, he's still able to lift the Hammer despite that.

This is when the Centurion reveals the second part of his plan; now that he's effectively removed every single super-powered being from the Earth, he's got absolutely no obstacles left to keep him from taking over the planet; basically by landing his spaceship in the middle of Washington DC and saying "This is mine now!"

Tony, Hank and Janet collectively feel like real turkeys for being paving the way for the Centurion to effortlessly conquer the earth and decide to resume being Avengers in order to Avenge... err... all the people they murdered previously. And some guy with a cane opts to join them, which Tony accepts in stride because they're down to three Avengers, and one GOOD Avenger at that, against a time travelling warlord with hyper-advanced technology at his beck and call.

So they have a fight, and the Centurion Wins (Centurion Man), when that skinny guy with a cane shows up and faces him down. And whaps him in the face with it. Revealing it not to be a cane so much as an enchanted Asgardian hammer, and that was a MIGHTY ticked off Thor what just bonked him in the noodle.

So now is just Thor versus Centurion, and in a straight up brawl, Thor is going to win against dang near everyone; and this is a particularly angry Thor. It's a completely unfair, utterly one-sided beatdown; concluding with Thor adding another notch in his kill-rate, and then hecks back off to Asgard, since now he's REALLY sure he's done protecting Earth, and Tony gets back up and figures that perhaps the Earth does still need Avengers after all.

He... doesn't really process why he's the only candidate left for the job.

BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!
Ratchet down the murder to a couple of accidental deaths and some ideological clashes, and a lot of the set-up for this universe was basically re-used for Civil War. And a later part of Hickmans Avengers run did have an evil alternate universe OG Avengers team show up from a Fascist universe popped up briefly (it was explained that this version of Thor had a Hammer that only heeded the call of the UNworthy), but I'm not sure if it was specifically this team.

Following that we have What If The Sub Mariner Didn't Recover His Memory (which I have in my notes as being drawn by "Rick Bu" and I think that might have just been my notes getting cut off by accident, and I regret that because, again, this is an exceptional looking story). And this one is significantly more straightforward.

As all True Marvel Fans know, early in his Superhero career, Johnny Storm travelled to a homeless shelter to try living like that for a while; found a homeless man ; set his beard on fire and dumped him in the ocean on the grounds that he kind of looked like Namor the Sub-Mariner (the 60s were a different time.), and luckily he was, so instead of killing an innocent homeless man, he wound up restoring the memories of a short tempered monarch who vowed revenge on the human race for how his people were mistreated.

But Uatu supposes "What if Johnny didn't decide to live in a flophouse for no reason".

Well, as it turns out, Namor (going by the alias of John Smith, on the grounds that he doesn't know he has a name) would also eventually reach that same decision; and he decides to abandon that sweet, sweet flophouse living in favor of making a living as a sailor; being oddly drawn to the ocean for some reason; and he winds up signing up for an arctic expedition with Captain Candless.

The Cap'n, as it turns out, is a firm believe in the Hollow Earth theory, and figures that the entrance to it must be in the North Sea; and has no intention of leaving the most inhospitable biome on the planet until he finds it! A plan which makes all the rest of his crew nervous as... they don't know that they live in a comic book world and there's at least two full civilizations that live in the Hollow Earth. Don't know for sure there ISN'T an entrance near the North Pole, maybe there is and he's just trying to find a way to get in there without paying a toll?

Anyway, tired of... umm... being under the command a guy who is going to get everyone definitely killed because they were NOT equipped for a long term arctic expedition when they left the dock, the crew mutinies, and the Cap'n kills the head mutineer, and the entire boat explodes in flame and it's all very exciting.

And Namor doesn't really notice because he's spent the entire trip to the North Pole in a light jacket, staring at the ocean wondering why he likes the concept of Salt Water so much; he does get to beat up the mutineers as they mistake his aloof behavior for him being loyal to the captain and try to kill him too.

Anyway, the ship then explodes for some reason, and the dying captain mistakes the frozen sea for the door to the Hollow Earth and plunges into the water, and the force of the explosion knocks Namor into the ocean where he eventually washes up alongside the same Inuit tribe that, in the 616, worshipped the frozen body of Captain America that also washed up in their shores, and decide to worship HIM as an ice god too. I'll admit I know little of Inuit culture, but I don't think they're quite as eager to worship everyone they see as an Ice God as Marvel Comics would have me believe.

Anyway, Namor doesn't have any issues with this, because the explosion and shock of the arctic waters just gave him MORE amnesia and now he can't even form a single thought in his head.

Well... there we are then. Stories over. No moral.

BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!?!

N-no?

NEXT TIME: That sounds like a bad comic book story!
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
BUT DID IT HAPPEN?!?!
Ratchet down the murder to a couple of accidental deaths and some ideological clashes, and a lot of the set-up for this universe was basically re-used for Civil War. And a later part of Hickmans Avengers run did have an evil alternate universe OG Avengers team show up from a Fascist universe popped up briefly (it was explained that this version of Thor had a Hammer that only heeded the call of the UNworthy), but I'm not sure if it was specifically this team.
This leads to one of my all time favorite Avengers moments: Thor finding he is no longer able to lift the Unworthy hammer and laughing as he goes to meet his end while the multiverse is collapsing around him
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
Oh yeah, I'm kind of lukewarm on Hickmans stuff overall (dude writes a real good Villain Speech though), but that was legit one of my favorite moments he's ever penned.
 
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