The Human Adventure Continues: Talking About Star Trek

[WisteriaHysteria]

I love TAS too, I think it's worth a full watch for sure. (Everything in Star Trek is!) And you're spot-on about the show's watchability. I'm just a little more hesitant to recommend all of it, especially to someone who is looking to truncate their viewing time. As the show goes on, the tone of the episodes gets sillier/more kid-friendly which is not what everyone comes to for Star Trek and probably helped earn its bad reputation back in the day. Also, the show has been heavily mined for content by future Star Trek writers, to the point where nearly every episode has at least one other episode in Trek (or Orville lol) that is identical in plot/structure/theme, so it might feel redundant to some. (Which is why I would normally tell people to watch either The Cage, OR The Menagerie - not both; it's rough on the attention span to basically watch the same episode twice.)

And then there's the Harry Mudd episodes, or a handful of others that rely on you having knowledge of specific original series episodes as they are direct sequels that Patrick is skipping over. Which you can still totally watch absent their original context, but it is a thing.

 

[YangusKhan]

Also, the show has been heavily mined for content by future Star Trek writers, to the point where nearly every episode has at least one other episode in Trek

Boy you weren't kidding. I just watched the first episode tonight. I can't remember which other Trek shows this was in specifically, but certainly mysterious alien entity takes over the Enterprise has been done more than once.

 

[chud_666]

All Modern Trek save for Short Treks now on paramount plus Canada. Prodigy still AWOL, as we know. All the moves except Nemesis on there too

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

All Modern Trek save for Short Treks now on paramount plus Canada. Prodigy still AWOL, as we know. All the moves except Nemesis on there too

Really happy for all you Canadians. My understanding from a pair of friends was that Crave's streaming platform was incredibly garbage. And while Paramount+ isn't the best set of apps out there, you'll at least be able to watch the show with a bitrate above pixel-collage. SNW and PIC S3 look stunning in 4K.

 

[chud_666]

Crave was actually awesome. The app performance was trash, and it was expensive... But had trek, HBO and good mix of new movies. I rewatched Crimes of the Future and Infinity Pool before cancelling. Ill get it again when the next HBO thing comes on, but with trek off it, Barry over, HOT D years away, and the high price, I'll move on

 

[Patrick]

I watched a few more episodes.

The Balance of Terror - Holy cow, what a great episode! Best one yet. More of this, please.

The Galileo Seven - Interesting to see Spock in command, but it was mostly pretty boring and repetitive and the aliens/giants were cheesy.

The Squire of Gothos - This one was tons of fun. I was getting a strong Q vibe, so the ending surprised me a bit. (it's the Star Trek episode Futurama spoofed!)

Arena - Everything with Kirk and the Gorn was great, but the rest of the episode felt a bit padded. Still, very good overall.

 

[FelixSH]

There is a Q episode in the first season of TNG (or second season? Very early), where Q gets taken away by the Continuum, similar to how Trelaine gets taken away. It's just that with Q, he can be more then the mean prankster.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

I watched a documentary thing where some of the writers/producers on early TNG were like “Wait, Q is just Trelane. Why TF are we just doing Trelane again? But Gene insisted.”

 

[Johnny Unusual]

The Galileo Seven - Interesting to see Spock in command, but it was mostly pretty boring and repetitive and the aliens/giants were cheesy.

The giant section felt more like it was from an Irwin Allen show.

 

[Daikaiju]

The giant section felt more like it was from an Irwin Allen show.

You could say that for a large chunk of this series

 

[Patrick]

The Return of the Archons - What a weird episode! I feel like they had a bunch of spare sets (western town, castle dungeon, computer room) that they really wanted to use somewhere and they fit them all in here. I also liked that the extra crewman they brought along was super annoyed at the whole situation.

Space Seed - I did not remember which one this was when I started it, but I've seen Star Trek II so this was a fun surprise. I can see why they brought back Kahn for the movie.

A Taste of Armageddon - I really liked the costume design here. The story was good too (classic 60's sci-fi), and they kept things moving. Real solid episode.

 

[Patrick]

I'm not going to review each episode, but I have a few more comments:

The Devil in the Dark - I really liked this one! It seems like a solid premise for a short D&D campaign.

The City on the Edge of Forever - Any given episode has about a 50/50 shot whether the problem is caused by a powerful alien or a very old computer that was left on too long. At the start of this one they run into a strange object and Kirk asks it if it's an alien or a computer. It hilariously answers "both and neither" That alone explains why this is widely regarded as the best episode of the series. (no, it's actually really good)

Mirror, Mirror - I like Mirror universe episodes and I expected this to be good in a goofy way, but it surprised me by being straight up great. Also, it seems like a solid premise for a short Blades in the Dark campaign.

 

[FelixSH]

Yeah, Mirror, Mirror is a classic for a good reason. I never cared much for the later Mirror Universe episodes. The original has a potent message, about how, no matter how horrible the situation, there is always a place for hope. The later ones not only undermine that message (Mirror Spock did something, but it made nothing better, in the long run), but they are essentially pointless, but goofy, episodes.

To be clear, the latter is fine. I enjoy goofy episodes (hence me suggesting The Savage Curtain), but we aren't even telling a story of our own universe. It always felt so pointless to me.

But more power to you (or anyone else), who enjoys them. I get that they can be good fun.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

"City on the Edge of Forever" is good in that it's well made, the acting/script is solid, and it's essentially one of the Ur examples of an entire genre of stories in pop culture.

But I'm not a huge fan of the episode. Edith Keeler dying for man-pain could at least crafted a more airtight scenario where her death was more necessary. Like, if Kirk had saved her, but then brought her into the future, then the timeline should be the same. A point made even more obnoxious by the theme the episode hammers home that in spirit she is a woman displaced in time - born in the wrong era. Bring her to the future, Kirk!*

Also, this is just me being annoyed with the fandom at large, but the fan-fascination with Edith Keeler as Kirk's OTP is bizarre and kinda frustrating lol

*On a side note: It's my head-canon that regrets over Edith is why Kirk is so nonchalant about bringing Jillian Taylor to the future - since he is smart enough to realize he played that scenario wrong and she's a woman born in the wrong era as well.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Remember when Deanna used to call Riker, "Bill"?

 

[Büge]

Once.

She did that once.

 

[FelixSH]

Do you guys know about the podcast Mission Log (I'm sure some at least do, I think we talked about it, some months ago?)? A Star Trek podcast (of course), going through each series, and talking about it, chronologically. I like it a lot (they are at DS9 at the moment), but the episodes I wanted to mention are the supplementals, where they do interviews with people from the shows. There is one with the actors of Troi, one with the actor of Wesley, of Q, of Crusher, and certainly more I am forgetting.

I just listened to the one with Mike McMahan, the guy who worked for Rick & Morty, and is the responsible guy behind Lower Decks. It's a really neat episode, I thought even people who don't care about the podcast itself might find it interesting. It's between regular episodes 372 and 373, supplemental number 62 (called "The One with Mike McMahan").

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Speaking of Lower Decks, P+ just put all of S3 up to watch for free on YouTube:

We're now less than one week away from S4's premier! Get hype!

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

This year marks the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek: The Animated Series. And to help celebrate this and in general animation in Star Trek (besides condescending and offensive Prodigy erasure) they commissioned a series of "Very Short Treks" animated shorts. They've released two so far, with more to come later:

They're fun, short, and overtly non-canon.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Remember when Deanna used to call Riker, "Bill"?

Once.

She did that once.

 

[Falselogic]

So any Star Trek fans here watch any of Roddenberry's other later shows, like Earth Final Conflict or Andromeda?

Are they worth watching? Do they do things ST doesn't or highlight different aspects of the human condition? Or are they just shoddier ST retreads with the serial numbers filed off?

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Both shows do some interesting things and have very different tones/themes, and are much more pessimistic takes on the future/what interacting with aliens would be like. Both go off rails really hard though after the first season or so.

I don’t know if either show is really worth it. Both felt regressive back when I watched them when they first aired. I haven’t seen them in decades but I’m willing to bet both feel even more regressive now. Earth Final Conflict is about aliens immigrating to Earth, and it wouldn’t take much to do an anti-immigrant read of the show.

Andromeda is probably the main inspiration for Star Trek Discovery S3 - where a Federation-ish ship gets hurled to the future where they have to navigate a post-Federation apocalyptic future. I checked out of that show though because of one key episode:

Spoiler

In this show, there’s a Klingon-ish people that the not!Federation were at war with, and whom the main character has deep resentments over. One key episode, the crew actually finds a way back to their original time, but during a key battle versus these Klingon-ish people. History recorded the not!Federation people somehow winning this key battle that kept the not!Federation from getting conquered by the Klingon-ish people.

The moral conundrum is do they help in the war effort to defeat them. Because this post-apocalyptic future wasn’t brought about by the Klingon-ish people, but via a later invasion of Zerg-like evil demon aliens. If the Andromeda decides to not interfere and let the Klingon-ish people win, then history is actually changed for the better. Because the not!Federation win was a pyrrhic that left both sides too depleted to successfully defend against the not!Zerg. But if the not!Federation lose, then humanity gets taken over as a slave caste, the Klingon-ish people probably pull off a successful defense. Thus, humanity is spared a genocide, they eventually pull of a revolution, and rebuild the not!Federation to be even bigger and better than before. It’s like a reverse Yesterday’s Enterprise scenario.

Except the Kevin Sorbo is like nah, I hate the Klingon-ish people too much to let them win. So he single handedly wipes out the Klingon-ish fleet.

And I’m like. Breh. You let hate win, and as a consequence are now singularly responsible for the genocide of humanity.

And I was done with the show after that.

 

[Aleryn]

I watched Earth Final Conflict some years ago and found the first season or two interesting. Andromeda is something I could never really get into, despite trying.

 

[Falselogic]

Spoiler

In this show, there’s a Klingon-ish people that the not!Federation were at war with, and whom the main character has deep resentments over. One key episode, the crew actually finds a way back to their original time, but during a key battle versus these Klingon-ish people. History recorded the not!Federation people somehow winning this key battle that kept the not!Federation from getting conquered by the Klingon-ish people.

The moral conundrum is do they help in the war effort to defeat them. Because this post-apocalyptic future wasn’t brought about by the Klingon-ish people, but via a later invasion of Zerg-like evil demon aliens. If the Andromeda decides to not interfere and let the Klingon-ish people win, then history is actually changed for the better. Because the not!Federation win was a pyrrhic that left both sides too depleted to successfully defend against the not!Zerg. But if the not!Federation lose, then humanity gets taken over as a slave caste, the Klingon-ish people probably pull off a successful defense. Thus, humanity is spared a genocide, they eventually pull of a revolution, and rebuild the not!Federation to be even bigger and better than before. It’s like a reverse Yesterday’s Enterprise scenario.

Except the Kevin Sorbo is like nah, I hate the Klingon-ish people too much to let them win. So he single handedly wipes out the Klingon-ish fleet.

And I’m like. Breh. You let hate win, and as a consequence are now singularly responsible for the genocide of humanity.

And I was done with the show after that.

Kevin Sorbo: Always been bad.

 

[Felicia]

An interesting post about Janeway being queer-coded, specifically in the episode where she wears a white tuxedo.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

I started playing the Telltale-ish Star Trek game! Only really did the very beginning sequences, but so far I think this genre is a perfect fit for Star Trek. The game's animations are a little janky and some of the textures a little flat but otherwise it's surprisingly decent looking. I'll report back later as I play more if it's worth doing so.

can't believe I just noticed it

Spoiler

There's subtle easter eggs hidden in most of the other shows franchise-intro-sequence-thing too!

 

[Kirin]

So, back in the mid-nineties, I was watching me the hell out of some Babylon 5. Partly because of that, one thing I wasn't doing was watching the hell out of some Deep Space 9. Like, I've seen random episodes here and there in syndication, but way less than I have of TNG or even Voyager. My partner really loves some DS9, though, so we decided to start in on it from the beginning.

And damn, if that isn't a banger of an opening episode. Sure, there's occasional bits where actors are clearly still feeling their way into new roles as you'd expect for any Ep1. And of course the presence of Picard and a few other returning guests doesn't hurt. But on the whole it really rollicks along, laying down a metric ton of foundations for the big arcs and characters of the series. Seriously just so much happens in this ep, and most of it's pretty interesting.

Anyway, I'm in. The next few eps quickly revert to much more standard star-trek-of-the-week type stuff, but they're all still a pretty decent trekky time so far.

One thing that seems a little inadequately touched on so far is just what people are finding on the other side of the new wormhole. Like, it's established that the whole reason DS9 is suddenly a hot commodity both strategically for various powers and in terms of commerce and science is that it's sudden access to a whole other quadrant of the galaxy, which makes sense. But several episodes in, absolutely nothing has been said about what people are actually finding over there. I know eventually we run into the Dominion that way, but I assume that doesn't ramp up for a good while yet. I'm just surprised there haven't been more hints about what's going down in Gamma.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

The next few eps quickly revert to much more standard star-trek-of-the-week type stuff, but they're all still a pretty decent trekky time so far.

It eventually becomes the most serialized Trek at that point. The first couple seasons are a bit hit and miss but it eventually hits a very high hit rate.

One thing that seems a little inadequately touched on so far is just what people are finding on the other side of the new wormhole. Like, it's established that the whole reason DS9 is suddenly a hot commodity both strategically for various powers and in terms of commerce and science is that it's sudden access to a whole other quadrant of the galaxy, which makes sense. But several episodes in, absolutely nothing has been said about what people are actually finding over there. I know eventually we run into the Dominion that way, but I assume that doesn't ramp up for a good while yet. I'm just surprised there haven't been more hints about what's going down in Gamma.

Yeah, it's going to be a wait before we really get to that stuff.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Paramount announced it's producing a new Star Trek movie:

Paramount Expands ‘Star Trek’ Universe With New Film, ‘Andor’s Toby Haynes Tapped To Direct With Seth Grahame-Smith Writing

Paramount is Expanding Its 'Star Trek' Universe with Toby Haynes on board to direct a new film in the new 'Star Trek' feature film universe

deadline.com

A new movie in addition to Star Trek 4 that's been stuck in development hell.

This new movie is going to be directed by one of the primary directors for Andor, Toby Haynes. The guy who directed the first three episodes, as well as the prison break arc of the show.

The script is going to be penned by Seth Graham-Smith, a guy best known for writing the novels "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies", "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Slayer", "The Lego Batman Movie", and "The Hard Times of RJ Berger".

All we know about the film is that it's, "...an origin story that takes place decades before the 2009 Star Trek film that rebooted the franchise" - for whatever that means.

I don't really know how to feel about this, but I'll be paying attention to see what comes of this regardless.

 

[Teaspoon]

I am here for the guy who wrote Lego Batman, that were a good gig