The Human Adventure Continues: Talking About Star Trek

[Sprite]

Man, what a run this has been. After everything spun-up we had near-constant Trek for what, two years? An absolute feast of shows, all pretty different from one another but all still very Trek.

I’ve been so nervous about the other shoe dropping, but I’m kind of okay with it? I assume SNW will survive the ensuing carnage, Discovery will be able to close out, and hooooopefully Lower Decks will get season four out under the wire. Prodigy is screwed but I feel like the story they’re telling would lend itself well to comics, so hopefully we see a resolution in some form. Picard went out in style, the S31 movie will probably still happen because Yeoh, and the 7 of 9 show was only ever a glint in everyone’s eyes. I’ll mourn that show if it never materializes, but complaining about it feels kind of silly given the surfeit of stuff we got to roll around in.

I’m feeling very satisfied and happy with how much we got, and optimistic about the future, because Trek is clearly a potent and durable franchise which will survive whatever destruction is about to play out. Even if the worst case scenario happens and everything is canned it will probably just lie dormant a few years before we see whatever’s next.

 

[JBear]

Apparently this new not-Telltale Star Trek game is pretty rad and I wish it was available on a platform I use, because it sounds like my jam. Rob Zachny described it as (paraphrasing from memory) "What if Mass Effect, but none of the combat? So you're just making decisions and vibing with your crew." Hopefully it'll end up on Steam eventually.

 

[Sprite]

Apparently this new not-Telltale Star Trek game is pretty rad and I wish it was available on a platform I use, because it sounds like my jam. Rob Zachny described it as (paraphrasing from memory) "What if Mass Effect, but none of the combat? So you're just making decisions and vibing with your crew." Hopefully it'll end up on Steam eventually.

We’ve played a tiny bit of it. I have no idea how much your decisions matter but it does a good job of feeling like they do. The first time the bridge crew started giving me options for how to technobabble out of a crisis I panicked a bit when I realized I had to actually pay attention to what they were saying and then make a call.

The coolest part is it oscillates between the bridge and the lower decks, and sometimes the decision you make as the Commander affects what you’re going to have to do as the Engineering grunt, and it’s cool to see that ripple effect. I imagine it’s mostly smoke and mirrors but they’re pretty good smoke and mirrors.

It’s sadly super buggy on PS5. Hopefully it’s better elsewhere?

 

[FelixSH]

That sounds super awesome. I'd ask for the name, but it doesn't matter, if it isn't on Steam. But sounds pretty great.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

it’s on Epic on PC. I use Epic. It’s fine.

 

[JBear]

I don't want to splinter my library between two services. It'll probably end up on Steam in a year or so, like the few other Epic exclusives that I've wanted eventually did. It'll keep until then, and hopefully be less buggy!

 

[FelixSH]

For some reason, one of the scenes of Trek that stuck with me the most, despite having seen it only one time, is from Voyager. In that scene, Janeway tries to teach Seven how to be social at parties. Go to a group, and join the conversation.

A group talks about babies. Seven tells them how the Borg handle babies. No one knows how to respond.

Seven does what I would love to do at parties. Just talk about shit that comes from you, no matter how people might react. But also just not getting how socialing works. She's awesome. Seven is my fave. I need to rewatch Voyager.

 

[Patrick]

I’m a few episodes from the end of Voyager. I’m really enjoying it, even though I think it’s my least favorite of the 90’s Treks. So, it’s only a really good show.

 

[Patrick]

Voyager done! The finale was almost very good. It needed, like, a few minutes of the crew meeting up for a 10 year reunion in the good timeline, or just any kind of send off for them and it would have been solid. Also, they could have done more to sell why the bad timeline was so bad, and maybe a bit more about why Admiral Janeway had to return to that specific point in time. There was still a lot of good stuff in there and it was a fun episode, just not the best sendoff to the series.

I gave it a bit more thought, and I might like Voyager better than TNG? It's pretty flawed, but I like the cast a lot, and I felt that it had a lot more great episodes than bad. Though maybe it's just that I watched it more recently. They're both pretty close, and DS9 is the clear leader to me.

So, I am out of 1990's Star Trek. I started TNG in July 2019, so it took almost exactly 4 years to watch the three series. I think I'm gonna watch TOS next, since I haven't seen much of it and it's supposed to be really good.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Voyager done! The finale was almost very good. It needed, like, a few minutes of the crew meeting up for a 10 year reunion in the good timeline, or just any kind of send off for them and it would have been solid. Also, they could have done more to sell why the bad timeline was so bad, and maybe a bit more about why Admiral Janeway had to return to that specific point in time. There was still a lot of good stuff in there and it was a fun episode, just not the best sendoff to the series.

I understand this common critique of "Endgame" but I don't think it's an oversight. More than likely it's a casualty of the limited time format, and the conceit of the episode. The episode opens up with a pretty lengthy exploration of what making it home looks like for the crew. They're greeted with a hero's welcome, most everyone ends up in a happy place, careers advance, etc. It's decidedly not a bad timeline on the whole. (Though you could make the argument that the events of nuTrek recontexualizes the events of Endgame as likely necessary in the Prime Timeline's big picture, and thus why the time cops don't show up to interfere with it.) And we can probably trust that any missing epilogue would actually be pretty redundant in that respect. The Voyager still does a majestic flyby with a tickertape parade, everyone gets promotions, etc. The only difference is this time, Tuvok gets help from his family, and Seven gets to go live her life. When you have to leave things on the cutting room floor, it's anything that feels redundant that ends up getting the axe. And I imagine this was one of the things.

I'm also pretty fine with Admiral Janeway's motivations. She's not breaking the law because the timeline is bad for the Federation/Galaxy. Otherwise she'd probably have official support. She's breaking the law because to her, there's nothing more important than her crew, and she's lived decades with survivors guilt and feeling like she'd failed them. But she's also Katherine-friggin-Janeway and nothing in the galaxy can stop her when she's on a crusade. So ofc she'll move heaven and Earth to undo the past in order to get her whole family home. It's a common fan discussion of which captain you'd choose to serve under, and because of Janeway's almost psychotic commitment to her crew, for me it's Janeway and it's not even close. If you're a casualty on another ship, that's just the dangers you signed up for. If you're a casualty on the Voyager, Janeway will rip the heavens asunder to make sure you get home in one piece.

So, I am out of 1990's Star Trek. I started TNG in July 2019, so it took almost exactly 4 years to watch the three series. I think I'm gonna watch TOS next, since I haven't seen much of it and it's supposed to be really good.

TOS is a lot like Voyager, in that the highs are really friggin' good, but it's certainly got more than a few clunkers and is a fairly hot-and-cold, uneven show. It's still a very interesting watch, and every Star Trek fan should watch it at least once - if only for the context and better understanding of everything that arose from it after. A whole lot of the franchise starts to make a lot more sense once you begin to realize exactly how much of a template TOS served. It's as good of a place to go as any. But I'd also highly recommend watching both Enterprise, as well as The Animated Series. ENT is a legitimately good show in its own right, and since its airing has low key been pretty foundational for the revived franchise. And TAS is short and fun, has been continually mined by Star Trek writers for decades, and is an interesting sequel to TOS.

 

[Patrick]

The episode opens up with a pretty lengthy exploration of what making it home looks like for the crew.

Yeah, that shows what will happen, but it isn't emotionally satisfying. For our crew, the ones we've been following for 7 seasons, the show ends right before they reach Earth. It's just missing that extra something.

 

[Aleryn]

Still felt rushed to me. Glad you both enjoyed it.

 

[Patrick]

I had to split it up over a couple of nights, but I watched The Cage. There were some funny/off things like people printing out reports, Spock smiling, and the phrase "time warp." And the cast reflected the times - very white and sexist. But, otherwise it was a great episode. With some minor changes it would have fit in the middle of Voyager and I would not have noticed anything off. Very interesting that this was not publicly available for a long time, and now it has been incorporated into the mythos of the series.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

The full episode was not available until the Late 80s, but the vast majority of it made it through in the TOS episode, "The Menagerie," so most of those things, long time TOS fans would have been aware of and was already a part of the mythos.

 

[Patrick]

I watched a bunch more episodes. I like a lot about this series, and it's interesting, but I do not think I'm going to watch through all of it in order right now. If I had more free time I definitely would. But, on most days I can basically squeeze in one episode between Henry's bedtime and mine, and watching a slow/samey episode after a long day is a real bummer.

So I looked up a bunch of lists of best TOS episodes, and I noted which ones showed up on multiple lists, and I'm just going to watch through those (about 20 episodes total). I'm sure I'm going to miss good stuff, but I can always come back to the series when I have the luxury of binging.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Show us your list, and we can probably help patch it with any obvious bangers you're missing.

 

[Patrick]

Sure.

Already watched:

The Cage
The Man Trap
Charlie X
Where No Man Has Gone Before
The Naked Time
The Enemy Within
The Carbomite Maneuver
The Menagerie 1&2

More season 1:

Balance of Terror
The Galileo Seven
The Squire of Gothos
Arena
Space Seed
A Taste of Armageddon
This Side of Paradise
The Devil in the Dark
The City on the Edge of Forever

Season 2:

Amok Time
Mirror, Mirror
The Doomsday Machine
Journey to Babel
The Trouble With Tribbles
A Piece of the Action

Season 3:

The Enterprise Incident
Day of the Dove
The Tholian Web
Let That be Your Last Battlefield
All Our Yesterdays

Thanks!

 

[chud_666]

I'd def add Return of the Archons and Errand of Mercy of the top of my head

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

That's a pretty decent/solid list. I wouldn't remove any episodes from it, though I do think a handful of them are a tad overrated by fans.

Definitely Add:

• S1E26: "Errand of Mercy" - Foundational Klingon episode; events gets referenced in later TOS episodes; introduces Kor as a character - Jadzia Dax's elderly Klingon friend/brother-by-oath on DS9.
• S3E01: "Spock's Brain" - Often hailed as the "Worst" episode of Star Trek ever made, I think there's a kitsch value most people can have fun with, and it's good to see the other side of TOS that you don't get it you're only going for the Greatest Hits.

Perhaps Consider (All of these episodes are rather mid or even bad, so feel free to completely ignore this section, but they're noteworthy for a variety of reasons):

• S1E07: "What are Little Girls Made of" - Not a great episode, but one that's serving as foundations for Nurse Chapel on SNW.
• S1E13: "The Conscious of the King" - Personal fav episode, but objectively rather mid; early Kirk backstory.
• S1E29: "Operation Annhilate!" - Ok episode that establishes Kirk's brother from SNW as a character.
• S2E03: "The Changeling" - Not a great episode, but has some bizarre moments. Mostly just a noteworthy curiosity as it serves as a template for Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
• S2E09: "Metamorphosis" - Very mid episode with very antiquated ideas about gender, but serves as an important lore-building episode as it introduces Zephram Cochrane as a character/idea.
• S2E19: "A Private Little War" - Downright regressive in some aspects when viewed with modern sensibilities. But probably one of TOS's better anti-colonialism episodes/serves as foundation for why The Prime Directive is a thing.
• S2E26: "Assignment Earth" - Infamous backdoor pilot for a Doctor Who knock-off show. Not a great episode, but made relevant again as backstory for Picard S2.
• S3E03: "The Paradise Syndrome" - Borderline racist episode, but it's an interesting look into Kirk's psyche as a character. A very classic Horatio Hornblower situation where the captain - freed from the burden of his command - finally finds happiness/peace, but is violently pulled away from it all because of duty. It's also a weird artifact of Star Trek history that never gets mentioned ever again, the fact that Kirk had a wife and an unborn child.
• S3E05: "Is There No Truth in Beauty?" - Borderline sexist episode but serves as the introduction of the "Medusans" that serves as pretty foundational for Star Trek: Prodigy.
• S3E10: "Plato's Stepchildren" - Pretty mid episode, but is noteworthy for the much lauded/overhyped "First interracial kiss" on TV.
• S3E20: "The Way to Eden" - Hated this episode growing up, as it was both overly critical/condemnatory of Hippie-culture and is pretty solid proof that Star Trek isn't as progressive as some fans would like you to believe. But current events have made the episode relevant again - as it features a primary antagonist whose entire deal is he's a charismatic, anti-establishment, anti-intellectual leader who is a carrier for a deadly virus and who disobeys common sense public safety measures to protect unvaccinated people because muh freedums; ends up getting his followers killed.
• S3E22: "The Savage Curtain" - Laughably bad/kitsch episode, but potentially so-bad-it's-good territory, and also introduces a lot of characters that are important to Star Trek lore (Khaless & Surak).

Also Definitely Consider these episodes from The Animated Series:

• S1E01: "Beyond the Farthest Star" - Just a good episode, and does things with the medium of animation that would have been too impractical/expensive/physically impossible to do in live action back in the 70s.
• S1E02: "Yesteryear" - foundational Spock episode that Star Trek writers have been pulling from for Spock/Vulcan lore for decades.
• S1E07: "The Infinite Vulcan" - It's wild to know that There's just a giant clone of Spock walking around the Galaxy like it's nbd
• S1E08: "The Magic Of Megus-Tu" - Kirk & Co go to the center of the galaxy and hang out with the Biblical Devil. One of the most staunchly atheistic episodes of all of Star Trek.
• S1E14: "The Slaver Weapon" - Fun bit of Star Trek lore; episode written by Larry Niven and incorporates a lot of his Ringworld ideas into Star Trek.
• S2E06: "The Counterclock Incident" - Episode that formally introduced Robert April - the original Captain of the Enterprise - to canon.

 

[Daikaiju]

S1E07: "The Infinite Vulcan" - It's wild to know that There's just a giant clone of Spock walking around the Galaxy like it's nbd

If Lower Decks is canon, he ain't walking anywhere now..

Also I'd think S1E04 "The Lorelei Incident" is noteworthy for showing off Uhura's command chops.

 

[Patrick]

Thanks very much! I added The Return of the Archons, Errand of Mercy, and Spock's Brain to the list, and I started a list of Animated series episodes. I'll keep the rest of them in mind for when I'm ready for more.

 

[FelixSH]

I'll second The Savage Curtain. If you want something that is just really dumb and stupid, in a fun way, give it a shot. Also, I'm glad to see Arena on the list.

But seriously, I think nearly all TOS episodes are good fun. Assignment Earth being one of the few exceptions for me, because backdoor pilot. Granted, it's over ten years since I watched the show, but that stuck in my memory as one of maybe five boring episodes of this show. There are other episodes that are bad, but they are at least entertaining, in some way.

 

[Patrick]

Savage Curtain added. Thanks!

 

[YangusKhan]

I wouldn't remove any episodes from it, though I do think a handful of them are a tad overrated by fans.

I just happened to rewatch Amok Time the other day and like... yeah I know why it's an iconic episode, but at the same time it was heckin' boring for a good 30 minutes?? I don't remember it being that slow the first time I watched it.

 

[Büge]

But seriously, I think nearly all TOS episodes are good fun. Assignment Earth being one of the few exceptions for me, because backdoor pilot. Granted, it's over ten years since I watched the show, but that stuck in my memory as one of maybe five boring episodes of this show. There are other episodes that are bad, but they are at least entertaining, in some way.

The Alternative Factor is a nothingburger of an episode wearing a really, really fake beard.

 

[FelixSH]

Yep, that was another one. Really boring.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

Again, I want to stress how weird it is that in the original series, there are just parallel Earths. Not parallel realities, just... other Earths with nearly identical histories floating around in space.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

If Lower Decks is canon, he ain't walking anywhere now..

That's the great thing about Star Trek: it's ALL canon! Especially the parts that make no sense/contradict itself.
Re: that specific spoiler though, the big Spock-2 skeleton might be Spock-2. But the rarities collector definitely had a bunch of fake/knock-off stuff in his collection as well, so who can say if that skeleton was real. But yes, I'm a big booster of TAS, more people should watch it. It's actually good!

But seriously, I think nearly all TOS episodes are good fun. Assignment Earth being one of the few exceptions for me, because backdoor pilot. Granted, it's over ten years since I watched the show, but that stuck in my memory as one of maybe five boring episodes of this show. There are other episodes that are bad, but they are at least entertaining, in some way.

Yeah. I think there's a lot of fans out there that take Star Trek so seriously that they don't like the silly/goofy/stupid episodes, but part of why TOS gained a following/became popular back-in-the-day was because people could laugh at/with it, just as much as take it seriously. I agree that the only really bad episodes are the boring ones. And also the racist/sexist ones, but ya.

I just happened to rewatch Amok Time the other day and like... yeah I know why it's an iconic episode, but at the same time it was heckin' boring for a good 30 minutes?? I don't remember it being that slow the first time I watched it.

It's remembered for the big fight at the end, but ya. The first thirty minutes are a bunch of "What's wrong with Spock!?" and consternation about breaking some rules in order to help him. Also Chapel being love-sick. It's still a good/iconic episode, but it takes its time getting there.

 

[Aleryn]

Once I finally watched the 1960s series I understood the silly core Star Trek sometimes expressed from the beginning, it helped a lot for everything after. So yes quality point WisteriaHysteria.

 

[estragon]

I am probably an outlier here but I honestly think basically every Animated Series episode might be worth watching for someone in this situation. There are only ~20 and they're ~30 minutes long, and the average episode is much tighter than TOS. Even the bad episodes are well paced and watchable in a way that is much less likely to make someone with a tight schedule feel like they wasted their limited TV watching time. (I like TOS too, but I am definitely sympathetic to how the slower episodes could feel like a chore when your entertainment time is limited. I never watched a TAS episode and started to feel bored, whereas I'd definitely take a break midway through a TOS episode when my attention started to wander.)