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Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Perhaps I've over sold "Chaotix > Spinball" a bit. I do think that, but I also do like Spinball, even if I get frustrated at it a lot, especially the deeper into the game I get. I feel stronger about Chaotix being better than 3D Blast, because outside the soundtrack (which is excellent) I don't think there's much to redeem in that game. It's slow and boring. Even the special stages, while okay, aren't as good as Chaotix's.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
I'm definitely curious about it, but I own the 360 version of Generations and I don't have any complaints about the graphics or the game so can't imagine I'll buy it. Seems like a feasible things to come to Gamepass though so hoping for that.
 

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
Spinball is a game that I've quit after 5 minutes every single time I've attempted to play it just because the gamefeel is so bad. It's hard for me to imagine Chaotix being worse (<- has not played Chaotix).
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Given the first impression Chaotix usually gives, myself included, you may not get further than 5 minutes there, either.
 

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
I will standby my statement of Chaotix > Spinball

Chaotix is just kind of a mid 2-D sonic adventure (not that Sonic Adventure) where the worst that can happen is you get bored or annoyed at having negative rings. It almost feels like any given "wannabe" platformer that is trying to bite on Sonic's (then) popularity/gameplay, but not quite getting it. If it was branded as a completely-unrelated-to-Sonic Vector's Humungous Adventure and released on Sega Genesis, it would be remembered on the same tier as Decap Attack or SG Taz-Mania.

Sonic Spinball is an attempt to combine the gameplay of 2-D Sonic and Pinball, and somehow makes both worse. Both genres are made more frustrating by having to "find" chaos emeralds or defeat the right three metal snakes or whatever. There are some decent moments in there (the first three bosses are great), but so much of the game feels half-baked. There is a nugget of a good game there, but it never gets there, and your final reward for trudging through everything is the previously mentioned masochistic final level.

Sonic Pinball Party for the GBA is comparatively limited, but is more fun to play. And Amigo is in there, too!
 

Ludendorkk

(he/him)
Sonic Pinball Party for the GBA

How have I never heard of this game before

Sonicpp.png


Love the prominent placement of Nights on the cover here. "That's right folks, this is pinball game with the Nights Into Dreams content the public demands and craves!"
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I've actually never played Sonic Pinball Party, I should give it a shot.

EDIT: Wait, wtf, Sonic isn't the pinball? That's like making a Kirby pinball game without Kirby as the pinball. Christ, they even got Metroid Prime Pinball right with Samus as the pinball. Come on
 

MetManMas

Me and My Bestie
(He, him)
We already had another game with Sonic as the pinball, it's called Sonic Adventure. So many hours spent at Casinopolis...

Anyway even if it wasn't stupid difficult, Sonic Spinball is just way too slow. C programming may have sped up its development but it also made it look and feel like a cheap third party knock-off of Sonic.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Because I've continued to think about Knuckles' Chaotix and have been laughing at jokes at my expense in this thread (and have been reading through Stu's legitimately entertaining "All Games Are Good" book), I've decided to partially adapt @madhair60's Sonic CD entry to be about everyone's favorite 32X echidna-based platformer. Enjoy:

Knuckles' Chaotix is a precisely designed delight; the challenge being to make the terrain work for you.

I know many who dislike it, and I can understand why. In some cases, they don't have the patience to play it properly and, in others, they simply prefer something more straightforward. That's not entirely me throwing shade. Knuckles' Chaotix plays completely unlike any other game in the series, with the exception being Sonic CD (it, too, being focused on exploration). It's interesting to me that, even when someone carefully explains the design of Knuckles' Chaotix, people still insist that it's bad. It isn't. If you want to go left to right to bop enemies, then yeah, maybe? It's not made for that. It's not what you're supposed to do.

It's made for exploration, you see, quite unlike any other Sonic (CD aside). The overall objective of the game is to collect all the "Choas Rings" by collecting enough rings during the regular levels to afford yourself enough time to clear the special stage at the end. This isn't mandatory; you can also just run to the end of the level, ignoring the rings and the special stages. If you play this way, you're missing the point. It's no wonder people who do find the game and it's level design boring and frustrating - they should be striving to collect as many rings as possible, and to avoid the (admittedly too few) enemies to avoid losing them. The levels are designed, mostly, in such a way as to keep your speed up and lay out a usually obvious path of rings to collect; besides Amazing Arena, playing this way works. That's really the only level that doesn't really fit Chaotix's design - you have to find a switch to turn the power on before the game will let you complete the level, and many of the stages in that zone are labyrinthian and unfun. Still, the rest of the levels work well with the mechanics, and are beatable on repeated playthroughs much quicker, showing that there actually is decent level design here, contrary to the belief of most.

The game is somewhat hamstrung by it's title, in my opinion, as well. Though playing as Knuckles is in no way bad, if I were the designers, I'd have made Vector the main character of the game. His abilities - double jumping and being able to climb walls - compliment the mechanics perfectly. He is not Charmy, whose ability to fly infinitely pretty much makes the mechanics pointless and the level design even less focused, and he's not the awful Heavy and Bomb characters, who should be removed from the game entirely. They can keep the dumb claw minigame in, just don't make the player be literally weighed down by losers if they're not good at it. Anyway, Vector's ability to double jump can be used sideways to get an instant boost in speed, and can mitigate bad jumps or those situations where the rubberband is bouncing your pair of characters essentially in place.

The excellent special stages are the cherry on top - for many, the best part of the game. They are 3D blue sphere collect-em-ups, but unlike the similar sounding Sonic 3 special stages, these take place in a polygonal tube that your character can move around in any direction in, in order to avoid falling off the stage or getting hit by spikes and losing rings (and thus, time). They take some getting used to after 30 years of fully 3D games, but once you understand how you move from side to side, they're a lot of fun to try to complete, especially if you played well in the 2D stage and gave yourself plenty of time.

Knuckles' Chaotix is a game I used to think was awful, coming from Sonic 1, 2, 3, and even CD. I thought it was a point-missing, confusing mess, drastically divergent from the mainline series. After a while, I actually tried to collect all the Chaos Rings by getting as many rings during the levels as possible and realized, it was, in fact, delightful. A lot of the common complaints about Knuckles' Chaotix are instantly resolved by learning how to play it correctly and by understanding its mechanics, its intended goals, and how to achieve them. The effect on the game is - without a word of hyperbole - transformative. It becomes something utterly unique - not just as a Sonic game, but among games, period. It is a beautiful snowflake. I'm so glad that I took the time to learn how to play and am now hugely appreciative of it. The speedy, sometimes awkward, wonderful design that only comes to the fore when you care to put the effort in.

I adore it. It's a sprawling, revelatory delight.

Thanks to Stu for the majority of the above essay, and I'm happy to remove it if it's a bit too close to your Sonic CD entry (I am not, however, going to remove it if you simply dislike it lol).
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Gosh, I've seen hbomberguy's most recent video. I should appropriately, clearly attribute the piece.

The above post about Knuckles' Choatix is (c)2023/2024, written by Stuart Gipp and lightly edited by Kazin
 
Last edited:

madhair60

Video games
i stand by every word of this now nine year old video review


having said that you have got me to replay it to see if maybe ol' madhair's been a little hard on Knuckles Chaotix, impressions to follow
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I'd not seen that before. "That's a cock, for a start," lmao

I'm mainly trolling, though honestly it does seem like a decent, if very flawed game, the type you usually seem to like. Play as Vector though. Hopefully you end up liking it
 

muteKi

Geno Cidecity
I mean no game with that much investment in its visual spectacle is one I could bring myself to truly hate. It reminds me a bit of how people talk about DmC, except that Chaotix is actually quite enamored with pastel tones (a relative rarity for the Sonic series even now)
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
I've just now realized I should have called the special stages "blue sphere-em-ups" above. I regret the error.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
So my wife got me a NEW XBOX for my birthday, and then gave it to me a month and a half early on valentine's day because she's the best I love her so much.

As any sane person would do when presented a NEW XBOX, I've been throwing DECADE(S) OLD GAMES at it to see which ones work! Mostly just putting the disk in and going "OOH NEAT" when they work and "FIE AND DAMNATION UPON THE HATED MICROSOFT" when they don't. most of them I haven't played past the intro level.

Sonic Generations though, well shit that one's getting a whole-ass replay.

There's some jank I definitely didn't notice back in 2011. Mostly stuff like a shitload of invisible walls in the classic stages, and some very weird hardcoded spring paths. But on the whole it holds up remarkably well.

It is a GOOD VIDEO GAME.
 

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
Sonic Generations though, well shit that one's getting a whole-ass replay.

There's some jank I definitely didn't notice back in 2011. Mostly stuff like a shitload of invisible walls in the classic stages, and some very weird hardcoded spring paths. But on the whole it holds up remarkably well.

It is a GOOD VIDEO GAME.
Huh. I can't believe this hasn't come up in this thread already, but...

 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
That whole thing is WEIRD.

Sonic Generations was the series way of taking a hard step back from the complicated bullshit with an anniversary celebration of the games at their simplest.

So now we're getting an anniversary remake that's apparently all about the complicated bullshit.

A decent chunk of my brain is going "Well they probably just want to catch everyone up for the Sonic 3 Movie" which is honestly just smart marketing.
 
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