Wowie Zowie! Let's talk about Super Mario Bros Wonder!

[muteKi]

 

[estragon]

That rules.

The bubble is definitely my favorite of the new powerups.

 

[Becksworth]

I got all the wonder seeds. I think that is enough Wowie and/or Zowie-ing for me.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Finished the special world last night, although I'm still missing the final badge, so I haven't played the ultra-secret level yet. Overall, I'm just astounded at how creative this game is. My jaw hit the floor countless times (typically when seeing a new wonder effect for the first time, but not only then) and I'm agog at how much love and creativity was poured into the game. It also looks absolutely fantastic, with a bold new art style that's unlike anything else in the Mario canon. This really feels like Nintendo stepping up to prove that they're still the kings of platforming, and I am 100% convinced. I really hope they make a second game in the style before too long - they've introduced so much new stuff that it feels like there's still a lot more they could mine out of the new enemy types and mechanics. The game never gets extremely difficult, but based on the bonus stages in 3D Land and 3D World, I'm not convinced Nintendo are the people I want making that stuff anyway. Super Mario Wonder is best when it's surprising and delighting the player, which in my case was like 90% of the time. Just incredible.

As I chomped through endgame stages like potato chips I wondered if one day Nintendo might make a new Mario game exclusively for super players, sort of in the way Mario 2 Lost Levels was positioned, but I don't know if we'll ever see it. Mario, as the company mascot and with Mickey Mouse levels of recognizability, is saddled with that broad-appeal baggage. The days of Mario games as precision platformers are long behind us.

Have I got some good news for you!

 

[Violentvixen]

@Lumber Baron and I wanted to play co-op through this but apparently players can't have individual control schemes? I prefer Y-B and he prefers B-A. I found a couple Reddit threads of people with the same issue so I don't think I'm missing a setting somewhere, but it's really frustrating!

 

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

I think it's been like that in previous games, too.

That's the Nintendo Way!

 

[R.R. Bigman]

I did all the stuff in the game except the super secret level with no checkpoints (that I saw). I got to the second part of that level and decided I didn’t need nearly all of the game’s challenge to be in one challenge.

I think this is a very good game that I enjoyed playing, which nevertheless did not stick with me at all when I was not playing it.

 

[balder the brave]

I did all the stuff in the game except the super secret level with no checkpoints (that I saw). I got to the second part of that level and decided I didn’t need nearly all of the game’s challenge to be in one challenge.

I think this is a very good game that I enjoyed playing, which nevertheless did not stick with me at all when I was not playing it.

It does have at least two checkpoints. Each checkpoint is after approximately 4 sub-levels.

The checkpoints are far enough apart that you're doing that maddening thing where you end up playing through the early parts of it a million times until you can get a little farther every time, until you can practice the latter parts enough to clear them.

 

[R.R. Bigman]

That sounds better than I expected. I still may go back and try it sometime when Super Mario RPG Remake hasn’t just came out.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Game is done and I got all 6 medals.

Honestly, the big final super hard badge challenge stage was pretty fun. I was enjoying learning the sections, right up until the end when the game decided to fart out an Invisibility section as the very last part and my mood immediately soured. But still, I powered through and got to the very end... and juuuuuust miss getting Wonderful on the flag pole, keeping me from getting the actual full clear. So I had to replay the final stage again and go through the goddamn Invisibility section again just to get the top of the flagpole and get the final medal.

That final sour note aside, though, Wonder is a pretty fantastic game, though my overall opinion has dulled a bit from the fantastic highs of the first two worlds. I'm all for the series shaking up the usual formula, but I don't think the game was well served by Worlds 3 and 5 being so short and having no actual boss stage. I have mixed feelings on the Flower 10 Coins, some of which were fun to find but due to the nature of how they're saved upon collecting them any challenge where the risk of getting one was death was essentially a freebie. It definitely felt like a concession for the younger players and that's fine, but it might've been nice if there was a 'only save big flower coins if you beat a level or hit a midpoint' toggle in the options or something.

Speaking of difficulty toggles, rather than make the Yoshis and Nabbit the only invincible characters, why not just add an invincibility toggle as well? Maybe I want to play Red Yoshi as a normal character. Sure those characters were straight up coded differently to compensate (no power ups, for instance) so it would be a bit more work than just adding a toggle I imagine, but it's something I hope they'll consider in future games. If a kid really wants to play Peach but isn't good enough to get through a stage unless they're playing one of the designated invincible characters then that's kind of a bummer isn't it?

Still, I don't want to be too down on the game because when it was on, it was on. Some really fun stages, gorgeous art design from top to bottom, and I appreciate the final boss in a 2D Mario game wasn't just 'Bowser, but big'.

 

[jpfriction]

I’m currently in the “beating my head against the last invisibility section” phase myself. Very strange difficulty spike in an otherwise breezy game. For balancing, I would have preferred more teeth in the special stages in general, give me a handful stages that I’ll lose twenty lives on rather than (or at least in addition to) one small section of the last stage that takes 90 tries please.

edit: beat it on my third try after complaining, thanks internet! Ugh, I need like 1000 more purple coins to get the last of the standees. I might be done.

 

[SpoonyBard]

The purple coin grind was weird too, but I assume they balanced it around people playing through stages multiple times to find everything and not people who got all the things in one go.

This was the method I used, and even then it still took a bit to get the remaining coins I needed for the Standees.

Upon thinking about it, if I had one other main gripe, and honestly it's less a gripe and more a quibble, the Badge system went almost completely ignored aside from Badge-specific challenges. I don't think I ever swapped off of Parachute Cap in regular play. Didn't even bother switching over to Dolphin Kick for swimming stages. The game gives you the most universally useful Badge right at the start and I grew so accustomed to it I didn't need nor want to experiment. Not sure if that's an issue of the game's balance or just a 'me' thing though.

The Invisibility Badge can go to hell, though. I can't think of a single instance where 'enemies can't see you' would ever outweigh the handicap of not being able to see your own character either. Why is this even here???

 

[Bongo]

In the Special World, the standee vendor who sells character-specific standees for 30 coins guarantees that you'll get one that you haven't gotten before. Once you've gotten at least 96 standees, it becomes more cost-effective on average to buy from that vendor instead.

 

[jpfriction]

Yeah I agree they definitely balanced it around doing every stage a few times.

I’m sure I’ll run through the shooting star level for an hour while I watch tv and finish it up, just kind of sore about it.

 

[RT-55J]

The Invisibility Badge can go to hell, though. I can't think of a single instance where 'enemies can't see you' would ever outweigh the handicap of not being able to see your own character either. Why is this even here???

It's for sickos peering in the window, going "Yes... hahaha... YES!!"

 

[balder the brave]

In the Special World, the standee vendor who sells character-specific standees for 30 coins guarantees that you'll get one that you haven't gotten before. Once you've gotten at least 96 standees, it becomes more cost-effective on average to buy from that vendor instead.

Never thought I'd calculate expected value in a Mario game.

 

[Vaeran]

500 Flower Coins
$99.99 $84.99
Best Value!

 

[estragon]

I don't think I ever swapped off of Parachute Cap in regular play. [...] The game gives you the most universally useful Badge right at the start and I grew so accustomed to it I didn't need nor want to experiment.

I think the most useful badge is probably the double jump. Parachuting and the double jump both give you wiggle room to adjust yourself on the way down, but the double jump also gives you extra height and the ability to more extremely adjust your trajectory mid-jump, which just breaks a ton of levels.

 

[jpfriction]

I used the floaty jump badge the most, felt appropriate as I exclusively played as my boy Luigi.

I got the stupid standees, btw. Game has been handed back to my daughter.

 

[Lokii]

I spent 97% of my time with timed high jump badge

 

[Bongo]

I liked Boosting Spin Jump the best. It was my go-to. Versatile, expressive, and a great way to get yourself out of a jam. You can get extra height or distance, alter your trajectory on short notice, fine-tune a landing, or bypass an obstacle. It felt more powerful than some of the assist badges, even.

 

[John]

@Lumber Baron and I wanted to play co-op through this but apparently players can't have individual control schemes? I prefer Y-B and he prefers B-A. I found a couple Reddit threads of people with the same issue so I don't think I'm missing a setting somewhere, but it's really frustrating!

If this issue comes up often, you can get one of those 8bitdo Pro 2 or Ultimate controllers, which lets you change button mapping at the controller level. I know telling someone they can spend $50-60 to fix something that's ultimately an accessibility issue sucks, especially if Nintendo ends up blacklisting third party controllers due to "cheating concerns" like Microsoft just did.

I've been solely playing this co-op with my wife, and my save's only at world 3 so far. For badges, she just likes to pick one and stick with it, so we keep the parachute hat on 99% of the time. I've started to push for different ones, since she has her own save game (and is up to world 5!) where she can float on.

 

[Violentvixen]

If this issue comes up often, you can get one of those 8bitdo Pro 2 or Ultimate controllers, which lets you change button mapping at the controller level. I know telling someone they can spend $50-60 to fix something that's ultimately an accessibility issue sucks, especially if Nintendo ends up blacklisting third party controllers due to "cheating concerns" like Microsoft just did.

We do have one of those and I forgot they could be set at controller level, thanks! We swapped back and forth and Lumber didn't mind my preferred control scheme so we did that for now.

 

[Violentvixen]

Beat this tonight, very fun! I still think the lack of controller customization noted above is ridiculous but once we were past that had a good time. We used parachute cap badge for a while then triple jump and spin jump. We skipped a couple levels because it just didn't play nice with two people trying to run around but overall had a great time.

 

[Beta Metroid]

I liked Boosting Spin Jump the best. It was my go-to. Versatile, expressive, and a great way to get yourself out of a jam. You can get extra height or distance, alter your trajectory on short notice, fine-tune a landing, or bypass an obstacle. It felt more powerful than some of the assist badges, even.

Same. I especially love how Yoshi can use both it and his flutter.

Other (mostly Yoshi-related) quirks that stand out after decades of playing 2D Mario:

-A character with a Fire Flower can throw fireballs while riding Yoshi! This greatly helps the co-op experience, and counters something that made the Fire Flower feel relatively weak in SMW (alongside tons of enemies being immune to it, and many of those same enemies being easily defeated with a cape smack).

-Yoshi can both carry shells in his arms like everyone else AND carry them in his mouth, at the same time even! Just a minor, silly little thing.

-I think this may be the first 2D platformer Mario where one Fire character can have more than two fireballs at once. I haven't extensively tested it, but it seems like there's a long waiting period after getting two onscreen, then you can get up to two more. Probably the biggest changes the power-up has seen since SMW introduced the "get a coin for fireballing an enemy" thing.

Man, I wish there was one version of Yoshi that took damage. There are four different Yoshis, maybe just make THE green Yoshi vulnerable to damage, and let the rest be easy mode. He's so fun to play with, but it's just so hard for me to feel "right" using him (which I'm well aware is just my own brain and decades of conditioning on what feels satisfying in gaming). I mean, in some stages, the fact he takes knockback is actually more dangerous than being vulnerable to damage, but I still wish the option was available.

 

[John]

We skipped a couple levels because it just didn't play nice with two people trying to run around but overall had a great time.

This is my wife's major complaint with it, because on some levels with two people, the crown/camera swapping is a hindrance. I still prefer it to the NSMB way of just zooming the camera out, and the bubbling/turning to ghosts is still relatively the same, just can't trigger it automatically anymore. The fact that you can't accidentally/purposefully bounce on someone to go higher or be a jerk made co-op actually cooperative instead of semi-competitive is the best for multiplayer, though.

Trying to play with 3 or 4 people, when half of those are age 10 and below, still results in more frustration than fun, even with the bumping turned off. Someone's always lagging behind or playing a solo game (usually our youngest), so we've only played a few rounds with the whole crew.

 

[JBear]

the bubbling/turning to ghosts is still relatively the same, just can't trigger it automatically anymore

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but just to be clear, you can absolutely forcibly ghost yourself to pass the crown around. My partner and I made use of this liberally. I want to say it was... holding bother shoulder buttons? Something like that.

Trying to play with 3 or 4 people, when half of those are age 10 and below, still results in more frustration than fun, even with the bumping turned off. Someone's always lagging behind or playing a solo game (usually our youngest), so we've only played a few rounds with the whole crew.

I feel like this is a sentiment I've heard a lot: that Mario Wonder is secretly kind of bad to play with young kids or large groups thanks to a few factors, like the new ghost mechanics, multiple people being unable to play the same character (leading to fights), or the invincible characters being unable to do the fun stuff like turn into an elephant.

 

[Beta Metroid]

Personal testimonial that doesn't necessarily refute or support any of the above: My 2 kids have gotten really into Super Mario 3D World. They love being cats, my daughter loves being able to play as Peach/Rosalina, my son loves being "blue guy/blue kitty!" (Toad), and being able to bubble himself. My daughter's started to learn how to navigate in a 3D space, and also how to take the crown from me. But we usually don't get to the end, and I often have to emotionally prepare them for being booted from a stage when the timer runs out.

So I thought Wonder would be perfect for them: 2D space is simpler to navigate, no timers, playable Peach and Daisy, invincible characters like Nabbit and Yoshi if necessary, and elephants are my son's favorite animal. But each of them briefly tried it once, and have declined any subsequent offers to play it.

They love Super Mario RPG, though, incidentally.

 

[John]

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but just to be clear, you can absolutely forcibly ghost yourself to pass the crown around. My partner and I made use of this liberally. I want to say it was... holding bother shoulder buttons? Something like that.

Wowie Zowie! Learning something new, time to add "bubble up" back to the lexicon.

We also have problems just keeping track of who you are, especially if we happen to grab different characters than our standard Luigi/Peach. Once action gets hectic, your eye tends to stick to the crown, even if you're not wearing it. We probably also exacerbated the problem on the second playthrough we're doing now, where we pick random characters each time for added difficulty.

Next time we play, we'll do hard mode of "always wear the last hat you were given/purchased, until a new one's offered".

 

[John]

So I thought Wonder would be perfect for them: 2D space is simpler to navigate, no timers, playable Peach and Daisy, invincible characters like Nabbit and Yoshi if necessary, and elephants are my son's favorite animal. But each of them briefly tried it once, and have declined any subsequent offers to play it.

My kids greatly prefer 3D platform games to 2D ones, I think due to the extra freedom they give the player. They see the 2D games as too finite, too unforgiving, just generally too hard.