Boba Fett plain wasn't very good except the episodes at the end where it turns into The Mandalorian and a Mando/Boba crossover for a bit. Andor is very good though. Just, in itself, as a show.
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To Infinity and Beyond: The Marvel Cinematic Universe
- Thread starter Vaeran
- Start date
I feel like you have to be SUPER CAREFUL when it comes to Meta/4th wall humor because of how easy it is to go from anarchic "FUCK YOU, BOSS" biting the hand that feeds you, "I can't believe they got away with that" joy, to masturbatory, "HOW LAME AND DUMB WAS THAT AM I RIGHT GUYS" agony.
I feel like Disney in particular is almost completely unable to do that kind of stuff, because well, they're Disney. They are the fucking iron grip. The Disney brand name on the product is often more important than the names of the lead actors and directors. There is literally Zero chance anything is "gotten away with" in a Disney film, because that shit JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN with Disney. These are the guys that fuckin buried a daycare center alive because of a painting of mickey on the wall, you honestly think anything critical of them happened by accident?
I know I'm biased as fuck on this, because I live literally 20 minutes from Disney's wicked black heart of darkness, and have spent 20 years screaming fie and damnation at my hated mouse-eared foe.
But this didn't feel like even a relaxed "okay guys we hear ya we'll tone it down," which is the very most I could possibly expect from something like this.
It was a "HOW LAME AND DUMB AM I RIGHT? FUCK YOU! YOU'LL BUY IT! YOU'LL BUY ANYTHING!!!"
I feel like Disney in particular is almost completely unable to do that kind of stuff, because well, they're Disney. They are the fucking iron grip. The Disney brand name on the product is often more important than the names of the lead actors and directors. There is literally Zero chance anything is "gotten away with" in a Disney film, because that shit JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN with Disney. These are the guys that fuckin buried a daycare center alive because of a painting of mickey on the wall, you honestly think anything critical of them happened by accident?
I know I'm biased as fuck on this, because I live literally 20 minutes from Disney's wicked black heart of darkness, and have spent 20 years screaming fie and damnation at my hated mouse-eared foe.
But this didn't feel like even a relaxed "okay guys we hear ya we'll tone it down," which is the very most I could possibly expect from something like this.
It was a "HOW LAME AND DUMB AM I RIGHT? FUCK YOU! YOU'LL BUY IT! YOU'LL BUY ANYTHING!!!"
I don't think the meta stuff 100% landed (especially, I agree, the stuff poking fun at Disney, it obviously can't have any teeth) but I did like the concept that in response to a false narrative, Jen responds by literally seizing control of the narrative herself. The execution ended up being a bit rough though.
Oh 100%, Jen was delightful. Pretty much all the casting was spot on. Granted, that has generally been one of the consistently strong things about the live action Marvel TV shows, Iron Fist notwithstanding.
Honestly, I really want to like the fourth wall smashing finale, but I just have a hard time looking past the jab at special effects when, again, Disney/Marvel has overworked its effects animators, rather needlessly because they have All Of The Money. But also, there's just the fact that the ending where Jen wins and there's no blood plot and Blonsky accepts responsibility and all that IS the better ending but it's not the ending to the story we've been watching. Like, if the writers or Management decided that made for a better ending they could have just wrote that story instead!
I do hope we see more, though. But please, hire some good legal drama writers for at least one episode. Give us just one good courtroom drama but superheroes episode in season 2, just one is fine!
That’s good to hear. I still need a break though. It’ll still be there when I’m ready for more Star Wars.
Sprite
(He/Him/His)
The jab at special effects was especially heinous. If Jen were a real hero she’d have led the effects people on strike and just ended the show.
I’m fine with every discussion around Disney involving at least a little spitting in their eye. The people they employ bring a lot of joy into the world but it doesn’t counterbalance the immense damage they’ve done to art and culture, let alone the human cost.
Instead, she kinda brutally beats up a few innocent rent-a-cops on her way to confront GLADOS. But instead of following through with the Portal joke and having her put GLADOS in its place, she acquiesces and falls in line? And then at the very end, she still gets upstaged by Hulk? It feels borderline nefarious. I'm getting kinda tired of Disney lampshading their own shittiness and then doing nothing about it. It honestly feels worse than if they didn't even acknowledge it to begin with. Like, y'all know you should be better and are making an active, public decision to not be. Very frustrating when the rest of the show was otherwise so good.
That's basically how I feel about the finale. Like, there was a lot of ripe, fertile ground to explore with Jen and her icky cis-white-male-boomer boss that was begging to get openly discussed/resolved. And instead she just gets fired off camera? And it never gets addressed again? Except for her paralegal who is like "I hate this guy, but Imma keep working for him because he pays me well" which is just like, the opposite of where this felt like it could have/should have gone.
I think I'm gonna just pretend the finale never happened. Might as well, since that also seems to be how the show itself handled things lmao.
Her goal was to change the ending to her show, and she did that. I don’t think that anything in the series hinted that Jen wanted to change or destroy Marvel.
That it will!
I'm not saying that’s the case. But think about it. It's beyond weird and irksome that they'd make a parallel that calculated, cold, inhuman Marvel Mandates are to blame for her problems, and then she's just like yeah we're still cool I can work with this. Like, imagine if Sauron came swooping into a Batman film, and he turned out to secretly be the cause of all of Batman's/Gotham's woes, and Batman at the end was all like oh, ok, you might be a genocidal incarnation of evil but I can work with you, I'll trust your word at face value, have a nice day.
jpfriction
(He, Him)
Really surprised they didn’t ADR in a line from Madisynn yelling offscreen for some popcorn or something in that stinger
Finale was fairly weak and confused me
a bit can’t say I understand why finding her cyber bully necessarily made it okay for Jen to break the terms of her parole but then they didn’t really specifically explain what she was arrested for to begin with. Easily the best of the marvel shows to date regardless. Looking forward to more, hopefully with more courtroom stuff.
Finale was fairly weak and confused me
a bit can’t say I understand why finding her cyber bully necessarily made it okay for Jen to break the terms of her parole but then they didn’t really specifically explain what she was arrested for to begin with. Easily the best of the marvel shows to date regardless. Looking forward to more, hopefully with more courtroom stuff.
Overall I liked She-Hulk, but I would have much preferred a version that just told the story they claim they wanted to tell instead of faking out a worse story, doing a bunch of meta jokes, and then skipping to the wanted ending without earning it.
Tell me you've never read She-Hulk...
?????
About the meta stuff in the finale: I don't agree with a characterization that they should've told the story they wanted to tell, rather than go meta with it. They did tell the story they wanted to tell, and the way they wanted to tell that story was to have Jen break the fourth wall and do it herself. It's similar to comments I've seen on Twitter about how they wrote a bad ending on purpose in order to make fun of it, but that's still ignoring what the actual writing did with respect to Jen's role in the story.
Sorry, that was a bit flippant of me. We can agree to disagree about the quality of the ending (I enjoyed it), but how it went down was very much appropriate for a She-Hulk story.
It's just weird because there are a lot of She-Hulk comics that don't break the fourth wall.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
But for a while, particularly in the John Byrne run, it was and even in Slott's run, while there's less fourth wall breaking, it's very meta. It establishes Marvel Comics are legal documents.
I don't know what that has to do with my opinion that the season finale was disappointing from a story perspective.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
I just mean there are a lot that do. Note that I did misread the intent of your last post as "I didn't know that was her thing" but before Deadpool, it really was.
I don't think the Slott run having meta elements like it did is equivalent to what I'm talking about.
Sure, I'll watch that
Good casting
Looks like it’s straight up Microverse this time, so I’m good with it