To Infinity and Beyond: The Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Sprite]

If Agnes is in control, why did she have the blip out at the start of the episode? Is she just trying to turn Vision against Wanda? She’s definitely involved, at least, SWORD didn’t indicate an alternative alias for her or Dottie.

I reeeeeally hope it’s not a matter of Wanda being mind controlled or something. It’s fine if she got caught in this situation because of Agnes or Dottie or whoever, but she should have some complicity and agency in the matter or else it’s just a “woman lost her man and went hysterical” story.

 

[Sprite]

”Agnes, Dottie can't be as bad as you say."
"Hmm, well, you'll notice her roses bloom under penalty of death.”

 

[Positronic Brain]

I loved the twist - let's see what they make if it and how they justify it, but if it ends with a couple of X-Men running around in the MCU, I'm not complaining"

Heck, I wonder if this Pietro is what drives Wanda to travel the multiverse in Doctor Strange: Multiverse Boogalo.

(by the way, my condolences to Aaron Taylor Johnson, he got the short end of the multiversal stick)

I too am suspicious of Agnes - I did notice they never said on-screen the name of the townie "playing" her.

Oh, and re:Sparky, in the Vision comics he was resurrected as a synthezoid dog with Vision-like powers. I hope we still get that version of the character.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

I feel like this is going to be one of those shows with an inevitable backlash to the ending. The amount of speculation they’re inviting with this episode means a lot of folks will be disappointed when their pet theories turn out to be false.

Sure? That's always a possibility for any show/piece of media that has ambitions and takes risks. But what's also a possibility is that the show sticks the landing and becomes something legendary. Maybe the former happens, but I'm never gonna get upset at a show for trying. I'd rather see something try and fail at being amazing because at least that's more interesting instead of just giving up and being something safe and bland and boring. Which is more often than not the usual MO for MCU garbo. I'm all here for Wandavision rn, which is not something I anticipated going into this show.

 

[Phantoon]

I'd rather see something try and fail at being amazing because at least that's more interesting instead of just giving up and being something safe and bland and boring.

This is me. Ambitious and crap over competent and boring any day. It's way better to aim high and miss than to hit an easy and predictable target.

I'm impressed with the boldness on display here. I wonder how it would've played differently with the general public if Covid-19 hadn't hit and it wasn't the first bit of the MCU in over a year?

 

[Zef]

Sure? That's always a possibility for any show/piece of media that has ambitions and takes risks. But what's also a possibility is that the show sticks the landing and becomes something legendary. Maybe the former happens, but I'm never gonna get upset at a show for trying. I'd rather see something try and fail at being amazing because at least that's more interesting instead of just giving up and being something safe and bland and boring. Which is more often than not the usual MO for MCU garbo. I'm all here for Wandavision rn, which is not something I anticipated going into this show.

Same. I had zero expectations going in, all I knew was "this show will connect with Doc's Multiverse of Madcap Strangeness" and, in retrospect, I wish I hadn't known about the Monica casting beforehand because then I would've been pleasantly surprised, but that's it. I've liked it as it's gone along and I have refrained from any theorizing--I just roll my eyes in amusement when I see breathless Youtube theories flying around about Mephisto and AIM and so forth, though I don't begrudge fans for them. Even this latest cliffhanger, I'd be pretty OK with it if it's just a tease from the producers and its only purpose is to develop the characters we already know and are invested in. After all, this is Wanda and Vision's show (and T&W's), and I don't think Feige et al would want to steal their thunder with a franchise-changing plot twist.

If anything, this is raising my expectations for Loki, although I still don't know what to think about The Falcon & The Winter Soldier, which will come off considerably more mundane by comparison

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

If anything, this is raising my expectations for Loki, although I still don't know what to think about The Falcon & The Winter Soldier, which will come off considerably more mundane by comparison

Same. I have some hope now that Loki could end up being pretty fun and am going to be a lot more open minded going into it. But I still fully expect Falcon/WS to be a snoozefest. These characters were already relentlessly boring back when they were sidekicks to Cap. Removing the best part of that equation doesn't sound like a recipe for a good time at face value, but I really hope I'm wrong.

 

[Sprite]

Sure? That's always a possibility for any show/piece of media that has ambitions and takes risks. But what's also a possibility is that the show sticks the landing and becomes something legendary. Maybe the former happens, but I'm never gonna get upset at a show for trying. I'd rather see something try and fail at being amazing because at least that's more interesting instead of just giving up and being something safe and bland and boring. Which is more often than not the usual MO for MCU garbo. I'm all here for Wandavision rn, which is not something I anticipated going into this show.

Oh I agree 100%, I’m on board for whatever. This is my favorite the MCU has ever done by miles.

 

[Octopus Prime]

...

You just blew my mind

 

[Vaeran]

The Falcon & The Winter Soldier Superbowl trailer:

I'm not particularly dazzled, either by this or the previous trailer. The Winter Soldier and Civil War are my two favorite MCU movies, so I guess my expectations for a follow-up are pretty lofty, and so far this seems... fine. I think there's a lot of meat on the bones of Sam and Bucky's rivalry over Cap's legacy, and I find Daniel Bruhl's Zemo a compelling villain, so all the ingredients are there, it's just a matter of whether they can make it all come together. And I hope they give Sharon Carter something to do this time.

 

[Adrenaline]

I guess I get the lack of excitement but as someone who got way too into comics by reading Ed Brubaker's Captain America, I am 100% on board for it

 

[Mightyblue]

The Winter Soldier movie was pretty much the best out of the original Marvel movie set, so, yeah, I'm looking forward to this one. Haven't made time for Wandavision yet.

 

[Octopus Prime]

I’ll admit that “Buddy Cop Action Movie, except superheroes” is less out-there than ”Pleasantville except Superheroes” or “Oceans Eleven, except Superheroes”, but on the other hand... gimme

 

[YangusKhan]

I'm so starved for Marvel Studios content I don't really care what it looks like, but what it looks like seems decent, and on top of that it's only supposed to be 6 episodes long anwyay? So yes, cool.

 

[Zef]

Yeah, I mean, I'm DEFINITELY up for Lethal Weapon-esque superspy intrigue with the occasional metal arm and jet wings, since what I liked best about Winter Soldier was the cloak-and-dagger plot over the superheroics. And ye gods they're finally giving Sharon something meatier to do other than two-minute cameos in Cap films. My earlier comment about it looking "mundane" comes from it (likely) lacking reality-warping, high-concept fantasy that gets to play with the medium and the audience's perception of it the same way WV and Loki do, because, well, it's relatively normal humans vs humans vs terrorists vs ethics vs conspiracies instead of mutants and robots and frost giants hopping between worlds. But! Spy thrillers are fun and usually held in higher regard than cape flicks, so I'm pretty sure we'll see plenty of swerves and plot twists and MCU worldbuilding, too!

(Just gimme "Zemo can't take his mask off because a vat of glue fell on him" and I'll be happy.)

 

[Vaeran]

I guess I should clarify that I'm still very excited for this series and the potential it holds. I just don't think those were great trailers.

 

[SpoonyBard]

One thing I'd like is some content that takes place in the 5 years during the (ugh) Blip. We'll probably see it eventually, in particular I'd like a Hulk series about exactly how Banner bridged the cap with his Hulk persona.

 

[Zef]

One thing I'd like is some content that takes place in the 5 years during the (ugh) Blip. We'll probably see it eventually, in particular I'd like a Hulk series about exactly how Banner bridged the cap with his Hulk persona.

Yeah, there's a lot of untapped narrative potential there, both during the Snap Years as well as the immediate aftermath of the Blip (like Far From Home and Wandavision show.) There's the Hulk thing, there's what happened with the Sokovia Accords since Cap et all were free to move around in Endgame but Wandavision still mentions them as if they were active, there's the whole of Wakanda losing the King and Shuri, there's whatever crack Tony smoked to create EDITH... Shame the Black Widow movie is set shortly after Winter Soldier, and dealing with the collapse of SHIELD, because the utter chaos of national governments, international relationships, et al, seems like even richer ground for the kind of political spy action she'd get involved in.

 

[Vaeran]

We'll probably see it eventually, in particular I'd like a Hulk series about exactly how Banner bridged the cap with his Hulk persona.

Mark Ruffalo is supposed to appear in the She-Hulk D+ series, so you may get your wish.

Shame the Black Widow movie is set shortly after Winter Soldier, and dealing with the collapse of SHIELD, because the utter chaos of national governments, international relationships, et al, seems like even richer ground for the kind of political spy action she'd get involved in.

While I don't disagree that the five-year timeskip is fertile storytelling ground, I think the Black Widow film is actually set between Civil War and Infinity War, and deals with what Natasha did while on the run after violating the Accords in CW.

I also really hope that the movie deals with the Accords themselves to some extent, because I'm getting the impression that Marvel Studios doesn't particularly know what to do with them now and is quietly hoping people will forget they existed. Why they were brought up again in WandaVision, I have no idea.

 

[Torzelbaum]

there's whatever crack Tony smoked to create EDITH

's security/authentication/privilege transfer system

 

[Büge]

I also really hope that the movie deals with the Accords themselves to some extent, because I'm getting the impression that Marvel Studios doesn't particularly know what to do with them now and is quietly hoping people will forget they existed.

Just like in the comics!

 

[WildcatJF]

Wandavision is fucking incredible, and my favorite MCU character is getting some long overdue justice in this show (Wanda).

 

[Vaeran]

Thinking about how Zemo could have escaped his confinement, since at the end of CW they had him restrained in that glass Bucky Box (patent pending). Maybe he got snapped, and at some point in the intervening five years the facility personnel moved the empty box so he was no longer inside it when he reappeared, and then he got out in the chaos of everyone coming back.

They'll probably just say he had help on the inside, but I think this would be fun and kind of unique.

 

[Zef]

................remember what I said about "narrative potential of the chaos that was the Snap Years and then the Blip"?

Now I want to KNOW what happened with the penitentiary systems across the whole world. Both for the Snapped as well as those who remained. I mean, does someone who got Blipped back still have to serve the rest of their sentence? If someone sentenced to 5 years was just getting started when they got Snapped, then they came back, doesn't that effectively double the sentence for everyone waiting for them on the outside?

Or maybe Hulk was feeling particularly magnanimous and literal when he said, "Everyone comes home."

(OTOH, maybe there were a few lucky people with untreatable conditions who got snapped and then came back to a world that had developed a cure for their disease.)

 

[karzac]

What happened to all the people who got snapped away while on a plane? Did they reappear in mid air?

 

[Octopus Prime]

IIRC, the credits scene in Infinity War had a bunch of airplanes dropping out of the sky because of the Snap, so I suppose the families already had all the closure they were going to get on them

 

[Vaeran]

What happened to all the people who got snapped away while on a plane? Did they reappear in mid air?

It's a great question, and one hopes that Bruce took that into consideration when he performed his Snap. There's also the danger of bringing someone back into a space that is now occupied by another person or object, so hopefully his thought process was to bring everyone back to the nearest safe location from where they disappeared. As Octo points out, half the population suddenly vanishing is going to inevitably cause some other casualties that unfortunately can't be reversed.

EDIT: I guess we have some confirmation that this is what Bruce did, since the Earth was in a different location in its orbit during each Snap. If everyone was automatically revived in the same place they disappeared, half the human race would have popped back into existence in outer space. Whoops!

 

[SpoonyBard]

Actually I've had a theory about the snapback since seeing Endgame and I never had an excuse to bring it up before now. I think Bruce did account for people who might have immediately died upon being brought back, even putting aside the whole 'Earth is moving through space at extreme speed and would be nowhere near the same position it was in five years prior' thing.

Spoiler: Endgame spoilers I guess?

Y'see, when he tried to use the Stones, he struggled. Like, really struggled to get that one snap in. Thanos, and even Tony, meanwhile really didn't. (yes it killed Tony, but he didn't struggle with the actual snap to the level Bruce did) I've always thought this was less due to how much the wielder of the Stones was able to resist the power they channeled, and more to do with how complex each desire was.

Thanos? Kill half of all life in the universe, at random.

Tony? Dust Thanos and everything loyal to him. Or however he framed it to not dust alt-Gamora.

But Bruce? We know it wasn't just 'undo the Thanos snap'. We heard him after the fact say that he 'tried to bring her back', meaning Black Widow, but couldn't. That implies some sort of struggle, or dialogue, with the Stones, and if he was already trying to do that, then I think it stands to reason that he was being very deliberate with what he wanted the Stones to do. Rather than just bring back everyone Thanos dusted, he also wanted to make sure anyone that would just die imminently upon being brought back would be moved to safety in some way or another, as well as trying to bring back Natasha, even if that last bit never worked out. So trying to hold a much more complicated instruction in his mind without losing his focus could explain why he found it so hard to use the stones.

 

[Vaeran]

I like that theory a lot! Fits with everything we see.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

IIRC Bruce brought back everyone who was killed by Thanos, not everyone who was snapped by Thanos. That's why people are hopeful and then crestfallen when they ask if he was able to bring back Black Widow b/c something-something-magic-stone-says-no.

EDIT: I guess we have some confirmation that this is what Bruce did, since the Earth was in a different location in its orbit during each Snap. If everyone was automatically revived in the same place they disappeared, half the human race would have popped back into existence in outer space. Whoops!

This is always something that bothers me with time travel in general as well. If you go back in time, but also don't go back through space as well, you'll just end up in the void. Because the Earth spins, the Earth revolves around the Sun, and the Sun revolves around Sagittarius A, and the galaxy is flying through space, and space itself is constantly expanding.