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Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
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Call back to FFV and call him a Freelancer.
Honestly nothing in the English localization really bothers me besides the previously mentioned Cait Sith thing. I think they did a great job with it and enjoyed all the vocal performances throughout the game. One of my favorite touches was (Ch 4 - 10 spoiler) how we occasionally overhear Red talking in his natural voice, starting with the Inn in Junon, until it's properly revealed in Cosmo Canyon. In the original game I never really noticed any real difference in how his dialogue was presented before and after Cosmo, when he supposedly acted younger. It was one of those things that probably read more obviously in Japanese. But here it's not only obvious, it gets foreshadowed.
Honestly nothing in the English localization really bothers me besides the previously mentioned Cait Sith thing. I think they did a great job with it and enjoyed all the vocal performances throughout the game. One of my favorite touches was (Ch 4 - 10 spoiler) how we occasionally overhear Red talking in his natural voice, starting with the Inn in Junon, until it's properly revealed in Cosmo Canyon. In the original game I never really noticed any real difference in how his dialogue was presented before and after Cosmo, when he supposedly acted younger. It was one of those things that probably read more obviously in Japanese. But here it's not only obvious, it gets foreshadowed.
Freelancer is just another term for mercenary. Literally means the same thing as it would apply here.
The way Cloud sees himself in these first two games I'd readily believe he chose Merc himself to help maintain his current ego as ex super strong military guy. It's probably also for the sake of people with no context from the original game to keep the way he's referred to somewhat consistent.
Yes, but the root term has the same meaning (offering your services to whoever will pay), and when you're talking about someone who's ex-military and offering services as a fighter I think the connotation is essentially the same.
Wasn't this a 'thing' with Samus Aran too, how she's referred to as a bounty hunter in the manual and other material, which gave westerns a very different impression of who she was compared to the developer's intentions? Then everyone was thrown off a bit when they started fleshing her out more in the post-Fusion Metroid games?
I agree freelancer would probably be more accurate compared to what he does, but it doesn't bother me either way. I understood what they meant and didn't really affect my understanding of the character. Similarly with the swearing as, as others pointed out, feels about right for casual english conversation*. Meanwhile (Ch. 10 spoilers) Cid doesn't swear nearly enough.
* Note however that I'm from the Philadelphia side of New Jersey, so my idea of what 'casual swearing' is might be slightly skewed.
I agree freelancer would probably be more accurate compared to what he does, but it doesn't bother me either way. I understood what they meant and didn't really affect my understanding of the character. Similarly with the swearing as, as others pointed out, feels about right for casual english conversation*. Meanwhile (Ch. 10 spoilers) Cid doesn't swear nearly enough.
* Note however that I'm from the Philadelphia side of New Jersey, so my idea of what 'casual swearing' is might be slightly skewed.
The difference is one of context and connotation. You could freelance in just about any profession and there is no inherent negative insinuation. That’s versus being a mercenary which is strictly for military/murdering purposes.
Cloud’s motivations to gain money is purely to live up to/fulfill Zack’s dreams, but Cloud doesn’t have the full context of why Zack wants money to begin with. To Zack, the money is a means to an end so he can get with/support Aerith. He will do any job because he will do anything to be with her. Cloud doesn’t have/understand that context. He will do any job because that’s what he hears Zack saying, not being privy to Zack’s inner monologue about wanting to help/be around his GF. So his spaghetti-brain interprets it as being the ends, not the means to an end and to do what he can to live up to his impression of Zack/First Class Soldiers. Him having a different understanding of what a Nandemoya makes sense in that context because it’s a much more ambiguous job title than Merc which is very specific about hurting people for money. It’s one of those ideas that gets buried/obfuscated in localization that I just find to be a shame.
In modern English, "freelance" is mostly used as an adjective, so that'd just have people saying "Freelance what?" (Notwithstanding its historical context as being cognate to the modern "hired gun.")
The choice of "merc" adds awkwardness when they also try to apply it to the conspicuously unarmed Kyrie, but the English script also insists vehemently that she's not one. How is her deal handled in Japanese?
The choice of "merc" adds awkwardness when they also try to apply it to the conspicuously unarmed Kyrie, but the English script also insists vehemently that she's not one. How is her deal handled in Japanese?
Cloud doesn't want Kyrie to be called a merc because she's giving bad service and not doing the job; she's a poseur. It's professional pride.
Right, right, I get that, but I got a definite sense of something from the fact that her odd-jobs were clearly not even indirectly violent and that she was caught unawares by the possibility of needing to hurt something or someone. It's as though all of the tension arising from the inequivalence of "merc" and "nandemoya" was foisted onto her character, which now has the trait of not knowing what words like "mercenary" actually mean. Broad-strokes consistent with her flagrant ineptitude, but possibly connoting a different kind of ignorance?
Ah, I see what you mean.
Tell that to the English version of this game, which has a "merc" wrangling up chickens for some nice lady. Again, they never really call him a mercenary. It's always merc. I am now 100% convinced the localization team made this choice specifically to address your problem.
It's not just professional pride, and not just her doing bad service - but she gives the impression of a blatant grifter. And not just by taking advantage of people with whom she doesn't mind ripping off, but she is doing so by associating herself with Cloud & Co, and using their good names to gain business - potentially sullying their own business reputations in the process.
For me to believe that Kyrie's role in the story was an intentional comparison between the English and Japanese definitions of Cloud's job, I would have to also believe that the Japanese script/scenario writers were aware of what the English side of the business was doing with their material. Which I don't. It's possible but imo unlikely. It is definitely an interesting juxtaposition though, and one I very clearly had in mind when talking about the definitions of the words above. Kyrie's entire M.O. and how she comports herself is not at all wrong or irregular for what a 'nandemoya' is or ought to be. In a civilized society, she could probably do the jobs she initially takes on without problem and without the appearance of grifting - but she lives in an uncivilized world, plagued with mako-monsters and run by fascists. The most generous read of her character is that she's simply naive to what "anything" means and the kinds of dangers out in the rest of the world.
Merc literally has just one meaning: shorthand for mercenary. So much of the story, and the characters reactions to Cloud makes more sense when you realize his job title isn't as menacing and negative as it sounds to us - be it Tifa being surprised/appalled at his willingness to use lethal violence, or Aerith's playful and flirty demeanor when he literally falls out of the sky and presents himself as one.
I'm gonna stop you right there, because I feel I've been misunderstood. I didn't say anything about intentionality. I just meant that, if there's a difference in the way Kyrie is characterized between the two versions, that might reflect some interesting aspect of the compromises inherent to localization generally and this one specifically.
Oh, my bad. Sorry, Bongo.
I haven't noticed any tonal differences in the way the English script presents her versus what her Japanese voice actress is saying - the big difference is just the label. And yeah, removing the context of what's originally going on, that makes her ignorance seem less benign/potentially out of naivety and a blinding enthusiasm for money, and more out of stupidity.
I haven't noticed any tonal differences in the way the English script presents her versus what her Japanese voice actress is saying - the big difference is just the label. And yeah, removing the context of what's originally going on, that makes her ignorance seem less benign/potentially out of naivety and a blinding enthusiasm for money, and more out of stupidity.
Yeah, and "nii-chan" has the same meaning as "onii-san" in Japanese.
If you can see that there are tonal differences in such small shifts in similar words with common roots, then surely you can see how the tone can shift even more when you change to a completely different word.
Sure, Mercenary doesn't mean the same thing as Nandemoya.
Language-appropriate term choices that don't exactly convey the original meaning are often necessary compromises in localizations, is my overall take (which shouldn't surprise anyone, given what I do for work). Mercenary works fine. There's no single word or term in English that I can think of that gets closer to what Cloud does aside from odd-jobber, which would sound very weird in this.
He'll fix the banister on the Hell House real good.
Zack's original idea of being a Jack of all Trades is because he just has a wide variety of skills most people don't have. And that's meant to be taken literally, and not as a dark implication like the movie Taken. ("I have a particular set of skills" yadda yadda.) And that honestly bears out both in-world, and in the real world. Soldiers (maybe not so much in the US, but in most other parts of the world) get used all the time as a mobile workforce by their governments to do all kinds of odd jobs. Be it building infrastructure, assist in the wake of disasters in multiple capacities, use their distribution systems to move goods around, etc. This attitude towards soldiers being mobilized, trained citizens who do all kinds of functions, not just fight wars, is very prevalent elsewhere - especially in East Asia. And that bears out in a lot of FF7R's dialog as well - where Cloud is constantly explaining to everyone else in the party all of the other things SOLDIERs do/what their lifestyle is like. Other expanded FF7 entries in the franchise show SOLDIERs carrying out survey missions and doing other jobs that aren't strictly fighting/warfare.
I like the alternative idea of calling them "Adventurers" because that fits the M.O. of the genre pretty well, but not necessarily the setting. That makes sense for a more medieval setting, versus a modern one. The whole point of Cloud/Zack calling themselves Nandemoyas is very clearly supposed to be a modernized take on the same idea. I think SpoonyBard's idea of being a "Freelancer" is probably the best total alternative because it keeps the definition of their job nebulous/open to many different ideas, while not being restricted with as many negative connotations, and still sounding modern enough for FF7's modern-ish world setting.
But! That's not the game we have, and it seems very much a decision to maintain continuity with the '97 translation - for better or worse. Which is why I still think it would be great if games like these had both more literal translations provided as an option, to supplement what is essentially closed captioning for the dub.
The connotation of "adventurer" really doesn't work for Cloud, for me. That implies a level of free-spiritedness or thrill seeking that he doesn't exhibit, basically ever (compare to Roche). In the remake series to date, Cid is someone I'd describe as an adventurer, but not Cloud. Zack, maybe, especially in his motivation for joining SOLDIER in the first place. "Soldier of fortune" for him, maybe, which means something similar but is tied more to a military career in pursuit of adventure.
SOLDIER of Goon-Ra
Cloud’s attitude doesn’t scream adventure/openmindedness for sure, but his actions absolutely do. Dude trots across the globe and does everything from being a bodyguard to being a chocobo jockey. The juxtaposition of his attitude to his job title is part of the charm and humor of the games.
Cloud: “Harumph, I don’t wanna do that”
Everybody: “But your job title says you’ll do ANYTHING”
Cloud: “FINE I’ll friggin’ do it.”
*Cloud proceeds to do it and look fabulous while doing so*