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Eff It, I'm Going Through The Whole Zelda Series (And Then Some) Until I Get Bored (Now Reading: a bunch of pre-OoT manga)
Kzinssie
(she/her)
As an aside, doing the first book I've done for this led to me updating the big list in the OP, meaning I've finally crossed 100 things on this list. I went a bit conservative for books - no strategy guides, sheet music, or books that are just art collections with little to no commentary or behind the scenes info. But like... I can't just do this project and not have Hyrule Historia, you know?
I feel like this is a common theme in Zelda games, and happens more often in games that lack strong central narratives. When Link is given a strong narrative and characterization in games like WW, TP, and SS, the personality of Link shines through, and thus remains fairly consistent. But in games like LttP or BotW where - through either limitations of the era, or intentional decision making - Link's established personality is so threadbare that it can't really stand up to or inform the player's activities, leading to perfectly 100% valid interpretations like this:
Kzinssie
(she/her)
THE SHADOW PRINCE (1992)
This time I just went ahead and used the exhaustive Zelda wiki summary. This is another CYOA, with the plot this time involving the mysterious and handsome Prince Charles of Moria, who instantly charms Zelda with his good looks and dashing heroism. As Link, you must uncover the fact that he is Ganon and then defeat him. This pulls a lot more directly from the games, with Ruto and Saria as notable locations and special note made of Darknuts not normally appearing outside dungeons, but it's also a lot more focused on dicking around in towns where The Crystal Trap was more about wilderness adventure. I wonder what sort of reference material the authors of this had to work with - I haven't mentioned it because I assumed it went without saying, but the writers here are clearly just fantasy nerd boomers who don't know or care about Zelda much (Treebeard is just in The Crystal Trap, albeit renamed "Greenbeard"), but there's a weird amount of details pulled from the games that suggest they might have had a pretty extensive series bible to work from. I'm pretty sure this book pays homage to Troll 2, of all things? At one point Zelda meets a tailor named Nilbom, which he realizes is Moblin backwards after seeing the sign for his shop reflected on a nearby window, which IIRC is exactly how the heroes of Troll 2 unravel the terrible secret of Nilbog. The design of this one is notably meaner, with a lot of points where you can have all of your items lost or stolen. There's also an absurd puzzle where you have to blow a whistle to travel back in time, which the Zelda wiki page even describes as "inexplicable".
These adventure books were a weird detour, but also exactly what I wanted out of these weird Western adaptations. The authors here were clearly not particularly interested in adapting Zelda, but in doing so they expanded on the world in weird ways. It sort of reminds me of the Archie Sonic comics, and how the random boomers who grew up on Silver Age comics and AD&D filled the world of Sonic with weird shit like cybernetic echidna shadow empires or whatever the hell this is. It's interesting to think of Zelda as a franchise where some random CYOA writer could get their hands on it and write in Ents, or time travel whistles, or boomerang demons, and I'll definitely be drawing from this for my Hyrule D&D campaign (Greenbeard offers a very nice out for including both Kokiri and Koroks, for instance).
This time I just went ahead and used the exhaustive Zelda wiki summary. This is another CYOA, with the plot this time involving the mysterious and handsome Prince Charles of Moria, who instantly charms Zelda with his good looks and dashing heroism. As Link, you must uncover the fact that he is Ganon and then defeat him. This pulls a lot more directly from the games, with Ruto and Saria as notable locations and special note made of Darknuts not normally appearing outside dungeons, but it's also a lot more focused on dicking around in towns where The Crystal Trap was more about wilderness adventure. I wonder what sort of reference material the authors of this had to work with - I haven't mentioned it because I assumed it went without saying, but the writers here are clearly just fantasy nerd boomers who don't know or care about Zelda much (Treebeard is just in The Crystal Trap, albeit renamed "Greenbeard"), but there's a weird amount of details pulled from the games that suggest they might have had a pretty extensive series bible to work from. I'm pretty sure this book pays homage to Troll 2, of all things? At one point Zelda meets a tailor named Nilbom, which he realizes is Moblin backwards after seeing the sign for his shop reflected on a nearby window, which IIRC is exactly how the heroes of Troll 2 unravel the terrible secret of Nilbog. The design of this one is notably meaner, with a lot of points where you can have all of your items lost or stolen. There's also an absurd puzzle where you have to blow a whistle to travel back in time, which the Zelda wiki page even describes as "inexplicable".
These adventure books were a weird detour, but also exactly what I wanted out of these weird Western adaptations. The authors here were clearly not particularly interested in adapting Zelda, but in doing so they expanded on the world in weird ways. It sort of reminds me of the Archie Sonic comics, and how the random boomers who grew up on Silver Age comics and AD&D filled the world of Sonic with weird shit like cybernetic echidna shadow empires or whatever the hell this is. It's interesting to think of Zelda as a franchise where some random CYOA writer could get their hands on it and write in Ents, or time travel whistles, or boomerang demons, and I'll definitely be drawing from this for my Hyrule D&D campaign (Greenbeard offers a very nice out for including both Kokiri and Koroks, for instance).
Right - you need an ocarina in order to travel through time.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
LINK TO THE PAST (NINTENDO POWER COMIC) (1992)
Holy shit, this was written by the fucking creator of Kamen Rider?! I wonder how this happened? This is a left-to-right Western comic released via Nintendo Power, but Shotaro Ishinomori would have had no name recognition outside of Japan at the time - hell, I didn't even know the name until now. As you might expect, the artstyle is very Tezuka-inspired classic manga, though there's also obvious Western comic book influence that I assume Ishinomori took on due to knowing the audience this was for. It's a pretty loose adaptation of the source material, though it hits most of the major points. There's a lot of focus on developing characters, making Link more of the courageous yet kind-hearted boy implied by the original game and periodically cutting to Agahnim to show him plotting. There's a few new items and such that make me wonder if Ishinomori was working off of an early draft of the game - Link gets an enchanted hang glider that allows him to fly over the desert, and the Pendants are used to cast magic in such a way that I wonder if they and the Medallions were originally one and the same. Link has parents now - they're trapped in the Dark World, and saving them is a secondary goal. The Dead Man's Volley is turned into an emotional climax, with Link realizing he has to use the Master Sword for defense rather than offense. Link never gets the Moon Pearl, and he instead keeps his original form in the Dark World through sheer determination and a refusal to abandon his mission, which is pretty damn cool. We actually see Ganondorf in this, and he's a big beardy bandit dude - appropriate for his backstory described here, and also a pretty natural fit for the person who would transform into classic Ganon. Speaking of, he's got gray skin and red clothes here - I know that design was used in BS Zelda, and I think a few other places? I wonder where it came from. A Hinox appears and uses fucking grenades, which is hilarious. Link puts on a Zora mask to disguise himself as a Dark Worlder and on the very next page we get a vista where the moon has a face, which is a pretty funny coincidence. Gleeok makes a surprise appearance in the Palace of Darkness, though it's just kind of a generic dragon thing here. There's a new character named Roam, an arrogant former Knight of Hyrule who once wielded the Master Sword and acts as a rival character who wants the glory of slaying Ganon for himself. He has the Silver Arrow, and thinks it is what will slay Ganon rather than the Master Sword, but obviously the big conclusion is that you need both, and Roam's arrogance ends up being his downfall and Link ends up with the Silver Arrow. I kinda wish he got canonized at some point, he's a very cool character. The Maidens are no longer plot coupons, but rather people Link rescues incidentally while searching for Zelda, which is a nice change that couldn't have really worked in the game. All in all, this was a good one, but I do wonder about the history of its creation.
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): PRE-GAME THOUGHTS
This is the famous proto-Link's Awakening. I played a good chunk of this a few years ago, but never finished it - I remember liking the classic Nintendo comedy writing and thinking the battle system was cool, but not a whole lot else. I'm excited to revisit it!
Holy shit, this was written by the fucking creator of Kamen Rider?! I wonder how this happened? This is a left-to-right Western comic released via Nintendo Power, but Shotaro Ishinomori would have had no name recognition outside of Japan at the time - hell, I didn't even know the name until now. As you might expect, the artstyle is very Tezuka-inspired classic manga, though there's also obvious Western comic book influence that I assume Ishinomori took on due to knowing the audience this was for. It's a pretty loose adaptation of the source material, though it hits most of the major points. There's a lot of focus on developing characters, making Link more of the courageous yet kind-hearted boy implied by the original game and periodically cutting to Agahnim to show him plotting. There's a few new items and such that make me wonder if Ishinomori was working off of an early draft of the game - Link gets an enchanted hang glider that allows him to fly over the desert, and the Pendants are used to cast magic in such a way that I wonder if they and the Medallions were originally one and the same. Link has parents now - they're trapped in the Dark World, and saving them is a secondary goal. The Dead Man's Volley is turned into an emotional climax, with Link realizing he has to use the Master Sword for defense rather than offense. Link never gets the Moon Pearl, and he instead keeps his original form in the Dark World through sheer determination and a refusal to abandon his mission, which is pretty damn cool. We actually see Ganondorf in this, and he's a big beardy bandit dude - appropriate for his backstory described here, and also a pretty natural fit for the person who would transform into classic Ganon. Speaking of, he's got gray skin and red clothes here - I know that design was used in BS Zelda, and I think a few other places? I wonder where it came from. A Hinox appears and uses fucking grenades, which is hilarious. Link puts on a Zora mask to disguise himself as a Dark Worlder and on the very next page we get a vista where the moon has a face, which is a pretty funny coincidence. Gleeok makes a surprise appearance in the Palace of Darkness, though it's just kind of a generic dragon thing here. There's a new character named Roam, an arrogant former Knight of Hyrule who once wielded the Master Sword and acts as a rival character who wants the glory of slaying Ganon for himself. He has the Silver Arrow, and thinks it is what will slay Ganon rather than the Master Sword, but obviously the big conclusion is that you need both, and Roam's arrogance ends up being his downfall and Link ends up with the Silver Arrow. I kinda wish he got canonized at some point, he's a very cool character. The Maidens are no longer plot coupons, but rather people Link rescues incidentally while searching for Zelda, which is a nice change that couldn't have really worked in the game. All in all, this was a good one, but I do wonder about the history of its creation.
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): PRE-GAME THOUGHTS
This is the famous proto-Link's Awakening. I played a good chunk of this a few years ago, but never finished it - I remember liking the classic Nintendo comedy writing and thinking the battle system was cool, but not a whole lot else. I'm excited to revisit it!
I had The Shadow Prince as a Wee Octo.
There is at least one puzzle the book asks you to solve which is literally impossible, and solving it is required for actually winning.
The books were not proofread carefully
There is at least one puzzle the book asks you to solve which is literally impossible, and solving it is required for actually winning.
The books were not proofread carefully
Kzinssie
(she/her)
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): FIRST SESSION
Yeah, the structure in this game is a bit odd without clear "dungeon" delineation, so I'm just labeling these posts as "sessions". This one lasted from the start of the game to exiting Eclair Palace as a frog, which felt like a good breakpoint. As I remembered, the humor in this game is on point - it's got that self-aware but non-pretentious quality you also see in stuff like Paper Mario, and I particularly like the gag where the Prince starts with 9999999 coins and immediately spends it all on frivolous shit and gifts to random townspeople and the like. An observation - despite the concept art and Smash appearance depicting the Prince of Sable as a generic white prince dude, his ingame sprite seems to show a completely different design where he is clearly dark-skinned. The structure in this game is interesting - I'd compare it more to the SMZ3 randomizer than anything else, since you have a Zelda-style overworld that you search for items to help you progress through Eclair Palace, a sprawling sidescrolling dungeon built like a Metroid game. The combat system is neat, and I appreciate how it simplifies progression, but you really shouldn't have random health drops in a game where almost every battle is guaranteed to cause you at least some damage. Also, shoutouts to the Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru wiki, which appears to have been completely hijacked by a gay Tumblr teen or group of gay Tumblr teens who have taken advantage of this game's nonexistent Anglophone fandom to do shit like turn the page for Jam the thief into a rambling summary of headcanons and lame meme jokes. As a former gay Tumblr teen who projected heavily on random obscure import games, I support whoever did this.
Yeah, the structure in this game is a bit odd without clear "dungeon" delineation, so I'm just labeling these posts as "sessions". This one lasted from the start of the game to exiting Eclair Palace as a frog, which felt like a good breakpoint. As I remembered, the humor in this game is on point - it's got that self-aware but non-pretentious quality you also see in stuff like Paper Mario, and I particularly like the gag where the Prince starts with 9999999 coins and immediately spends it all on frivolous shit and gifts to random townspeople and the like. An observation - despite the concept art and Smash appearance depicting the Prince of Sable as a generic white prince dude, his ingame sprite seems to show a completely different design where he is clearly dark-skinned. The structure in this game is interesting - I'd compare it more to the SMZ3 randomizer than anything else, since you have a Zelda-style overworld that you search for items to help you progress through Eclair Palace, a sprawling sidescrolling dungeon built like a Metroid game. The combat system is neat, and I appreciate how it simplifies progression, but you really shouldn't have random health drops in a game where almost every battle is guaranteed to cause you at least some damage. Also, shoutouts to the Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru wiki, which appears to have been completely hijacked by a gay Tumblr teen or group of gay Tumblr teens who have taken advantage of this game's nonexistent Anglophone fandom to do shit like turn the page for Jam the thief into a rambling summary of headcanons and lame meme jokes. As a former gay Tumblr teen who projected heavily on random obscure import games, I support whoever did this.
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Kzinssie
(she/her)
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): SECOND SESSION
This session went up to the visit to Eclair Palace after getting the snake transformation, but I haven't completed it yet due to IRL obligations pulling me away. I actually think this might have been around where I quit last time, though it certainly feels like I got further. The transformation gimmick is fun but a bit convoluted for its own good, particularly due to its reliance on consumable items - cheap enough to not be a legitimate resource management issue, with a small enough inventory cap to be annoying to deal with. The platforming in this Eclair Palace gimmick is kind of awful - its finicky and all the traps deal too much damage when they don't kill you outright, forcing you back to the start where you have to hike a fair distance and use up a Hot Spring Egg and Joy Fruit just to reach the point where the platforming gauntlet properly begins. It's still plenty charming, though, so I don't see myself having any issues getting through this bit ultimately.
This session went up to the visit to Eclair Palace after getting the snake transformation, but I haven't completed it yet due to IRL obligations pulling me away. I actually think this might have been around where I quit last time, though it certainly feels like I got further. The transformation gimmick is fun but a bit convoluted for its own good, particularly due to its reliance on consumable items - cheap enough to not be a legitimate resource management issue, with a small enough inventory cap to be annoying to deal with. The platforming in this Eclair Palace gimmick is kind of awful - its finicky and all the traps deal too much damage when they don't kill you outright, forcing you back to the start where you have to hike a fair distance and use up a Hot Spring Egg and Joy Fruit just to reach the point where the platforming gauntlet properly begins. It's still plenty charming, though, so I don't see myself having any issues getting through this bit ultimately.
I want to say that BoTW is my favourite Zelda because of LttP (and Zelda 1 too). This is because every single puzzle has alternate solutions and how organic the overworld is.
Like Beowulf mentioned, I used bombs on Helmasaur, and you don’t need to use the fire rod on Mothman in Skull Woods, etc. BoTW took that concept and took it to eleven.
I had gotten so tired of the enter dungeon > find item > use dungeon item on dungeon boss cycle. It really felt off compared to previous games in the series — it only started really with OoT (though it shows up more mildly in LA).
The other thing I disagree with is saying that BoTW Link lacks personality. It’s subtle especially at the beginning of the game, but it’s the direct result of him losing his memories. As he interacts with the world more, and starts rediscovering memories, there’s a shift in his portrayal.
For one thing BoTW Link is proclaimed a hero long before trouble even begins. In all other games Link is essentially a nobody. Sure, a handful of people have that secret knowledge that he is the Hero spoken of in legend, but Link is able to travel the land mostly unnoticed.
Compare that with BoTW, where he is not only a Knight of the Kingdom, but every single person knows who and (more importantly) what he is.
BoTW’s story is a tragedy, but it isn’t just of what happened to Hyrule. The bigger tragedy is the failure of all the adult characters in protecting and supporting two child would-be heroes.
They’re still kids, even if they are precocious, but Prophecy cruelly said they were the Chosen Ones and therefore wouldn’t need help or guidance.
Zelda’s plight has been examined more thoroughly, even within the game’s text. But Link also suffers with the expectation that the legends and contemporary society placed on his shoulders.
The entire arc of Zelda resenting Link due to the fact he “had it all figured out” cos he had the Master Sword, and wouldn’t talk to her masked the fact that he was too scared to fuck up and withdrew himself to push forward the image of being stoic and brave.
When we see him in the present, talking to people who have no idea who he is — or rather was — you can see his personality shine through.
The multiple answer options for almost any question show a playful young man who isn’t above playing a good natured prank. He cares a lot for people, and gets flustered or closes himself off when people ask too many questions about him.
We do get a hint of that in the later memory interactions between him and Zelda. In her diary Zelda not only regrets her previous assumptions but talks about the relief and joy in having someone who understands what she is going through.
Not to continue derailing this thread, but the most ironic thing for me is that I didn’t think BoTW was going to be good. I basically stopped looking at information on it after Aonuma’s bs answer why Link was right-handed and the revelation that it would be “open world”.
When I ended up playing it cos Other Half pre-orders games like how squirrels bury nuts for winter I said “fuck it, might as well give it a shot,” after two fucking copies showed up in the post.
And for the first time in forever I played a game with zero idea about it and fuck me if it wasn’t one of the best games I ever played.
The breaking point for me I think was telling Other Half “holy shit you can climb”. They responded with “you probably can’t just climb anything though”.
My response was “fuck you watch this” as I scaled one of the mountains on the Great Plateau. That’s when I knew I was truly fucked.
The fact that BoTW’s story and storytelling method was leagues beyond any prior Zelda (and honestly most story-driven games) and that I was really invested in it is probably my biggest gaming surprise right behind FFXIV.
(I have over 1000 hours on BoTW logged on my Switch alone. And I played through the game several times on the WiiU prior.)
Like Beowulf mentioned, I used bombs on Helmasaur, and you don’t need to use the fire rod on Mothman in Skull Woods, etc. BoTW took that concept and took it to eleven.
I had gotten so tired of the enter dungeon > find item > use dungeon item on dungeon boss cycle. It really felt off compared to previous games in the series — it only started really with OoT (though it shows up more mildly in LA).
The other thing I disagree with is saying that BoTW Link lacks personality. It’s subtle especially at the beginning of the game, but it’s the direct result of him losing his memories. As he interacts with the world more, and starts rediscovering memories, there’s a shift in his portrayal.
For one thing BoTW Link is proclaimed a hero long before trouble even begins. In all other games Link is essentially a nobody. Sure, a handful of people have that secret knowledge that he is the Hero spoken of in legend, but Link is able to travel the land mostly unnoticed.
Compare that with BoTW, where he is not only a Knight of the Kingdom, but every single person knows who and (more importantly) what he is.
BoTW’s story is a tragedy, but it isn’t just of what happened to Hyrule. The bigger tragedy is the failure of all the adult characters in protecting and supporting two child would-be heroes.
They’re still kids, even if they are precocious, but Prophecy cruelly said they were the Chosen Ones and therefore wouldn’t need help or guidance.
Zelda’s plight has been examined more thoroughly, even within the game’s text. But Link also suffers with the expectation that the legends and contemporary society placed on his shoulders.
The entire arc of Zelda resenting Link due to the fact he “had it all figured out” cos he had the Master Sword, and wouldn’t talk to her masked the fact that he was too scared to fuck up and withdrew himself to push forward the image of being stoic and brave.
When we see him in the present, talking to people who have no idea who he is — or rather was — you can see his personality shine through.
The multiple answer options for almost any question show a playful young man who isn’t above playing a good natured prank. He cares a lot for people, and gets flustered or closes himself off when people ask too many questions about him.
We do get a hint of that in the later memory interactions between him and Zelda. In her diary Zelda not only regrets her previous assumptions but talks about the relief and joy in having someone who understands what she is going through.
When you contrast this with the alternate timeline that results in Age of Calamity it’s a pretty stark difference.
With Impa’s (and Terrako’s help), Zelda and Link get past their misunderstandings much faster and the newly formed Best Friends Squad becomes the support network both our heroes needed.
Impa specifically being there when Zelda goes to the Spring of Courage is where things solidify. She says what Link can’t still — that she isn’t a failure for not awakening her power. That Zelda is already doing quantitative good with the breakthroughs she has helped regarding the ancient Sheikah tech.
It’s notable to me that Zelda’s power still awakens at the battle of Hateno, but not as Link is dying. No, it’s because she’s been friends so much longer with him (and maybe something more!), and she cannot leave him to face all that alone.
Zelda’s fervent wish at the end of the canonical tragedy at the beginning of BoTW, to save everyone, comes true in Age of Calamity. Terrako through the goddess’ power itself manages to summon those people who became friends with Link in the dystopian future. And they were able to help and support the otherwise doomed Champions.
And that in the end is why this alternate timeline story doesn’t become the tragedy. Because heroes are people too, and need the support and help from those around them.
With Impa’s (and Terrako’s help), Zelda and Link get past their misunderstandings much faster and the newly formed Best Friends Squad becomes the support network both our heroes needed.
Impa specifically being there when Zelda goes to the Spring of Courage is where things solidify. She says what Link can’t still — that she isn’t a failure for not awakening her power. That Zelda is already doing quantitative good with the breakthroughs she has helped regarding the ancient Sheikah tech.
It’s notable to me that Zelda’s power still awakens at the battle of Hateno, but not as Link is dying. No, it’s because she’s been friends so much longer with him (and maybe something more!), and she cannot leave him to face all that alone.
Zelda’s fervent wish at the end of the canonical tragedy at the beginning of BoTW, to save everyone, comes true in Age of Calamity. Terrako through the goddess’ power itself manages to summon those people who became friends with Link in the dystopian future. And they were able to help and support the otherwise doomed Champions.
And that in the end is why this alternate timeline story doesn’t become the tragedy. Because heroes are people too, and need the support and help from those around them.
Not to continue derailing this thread, but the most ironic thing for me is that I didn’t think BoTW was going to be good. I basically stopped looking at information on it after Aonuma’s bs answer why Link was right-handed and the revelation that it would be “open world”.
When I ended up playing it cos Other Half pre-orders games like how squirrels bury nuts for winter I said “fuck it, might as well give it a shot,” after two fucking copies showed up in the post.
And for the first time in forever I played a game with zero idea about it and fuck me if it wasn’t one of the best games I ever played.
The breaking point for me I think was telling Other Half “holy shit you can climb”. They responded with “you probably can’t just climb anything though”.
My response was “fuck you watch this” as I scaled one of the mountains on the Great Plateau. That’s when I knew I was truly fucked.
The fact that BoTW’s story and storytelling method was leagues beyond any prior Zelda (and honestly most story-driven games) and that I was really invested in it is probably my biggest gaming surprise right behind FFXIV.
(I have over 1000 hours on BoTW logged on my Switch alone. And I played through the game several times on the WiiU prior.)
Kzinssie
(she/her)
I definitely get how BotW landed for a lot of people, but it didn't do much for me. It's a ways off, so I'll get into my thoughts on it in depth when we get there, but the short version is that it relies too much on making your own fun for my tastes - I need a strong structure to enjoy a game, even just "go to X number of dungeons and get their plot coupons" as in Zelda 1 or LttP, and every quest in BotW is more of a suggestion so the whole thing just felt muddy and aimless to me. (For my replay for this thread I'll probably end up using a guide and essentially forcing it into a traditional linear Zelda structure, which I know is ruining the point and so on but is the way I'll get the most enjoyment.) There were also a lot of individual mechanics, like the stamina system, weapon durability, and soul orb progression, that I didn't vibe with. Again, though, different people have different experiences, and clearly mine is the minority opinion. I'm certainly not gonna call it a bad game, just one I didn't enjoy.
That said, I will note that the argument wasn't that that Link lacks a personality, but that the personality is something you have to search for and one often contradicted by the gameplay, compared to other Zelda games with strongly-characterized Links that do so through some combination of body language and the verbs available to the player instead of just the way they're characterized in the story proper.
That said, I will note that the argument wasn't that that Link lacks a personality, but that the personality is something you have to search for and one often contradicted by the gameplay, compared to other Zelda games with strongly-characterized Links that do so through some combination of body language and the verbs available to the player instead of just the way they're characterized in the story proper.
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I have struggled talking about BotW because I do not want to criticize anyone's enjoyment of it (because I've definitely done so in the past, eh Juno and Gaer? lol), and I did end up finding every shrine because I really liked those so it's not like I hated the thing. I'll just say I missed the structure of earlier games as well and also did not vibe with the weapon durability (among other things, most notably for me the rain).
I took no issue with the story of BotW though it didn't particularly enthrall me.
I took no issue with the story of BotW though it didn't particularly enthrall me.
I can’t quite relate to your comment but I’m not trying to say your opinion is wrong.
I just felt that the way the overworld was so cleverly designed that it basically led you through what you needed to do. I really don’t enjoy other open world games like Elder Scrolls for the very reasons you mention.
There is also the fact that exploring always netted a reward was an important part of BoTW’s design for me, and something that most of those other open world games completely lack.
As for other Links’ personality the only ones that stands out to me whatsoever are Majora’s Mask and Twilight Princess’, though the latter is markedly less compared to the former. And the rest are kinda just “there” as a player avatar and nothing more imo. This is just my opinion of course. We all have different kinds of “attachements” (for the lack of a better word) for storytelling or whatever in media.
One that could be great that I don’t know about is Skyward Sword cos I could never play it being lefthanded as I am. I’m so looking forward to the remake in July!
I just felt that the way the overworld was so cleverly designed that it basically led you through what you needed to do. I really don’t enjoy other open world games like Elder Scrolls for the very reasons you mention.
There is also the fact that exploring always netted a reward was an important part of BoTW’s design for me, and something that most of those other open world games completely lack.
As for other Links’ personality the only ones that stands out to me whatsoever are Majora’s Mask and Twilight Princess’, though the latter is markedly less compared to the former. And the rest are kinda just “there” as a player avatar and nothing more imo. This is just my opinion of course. We all have different kinds of “attachements” (for the lack of a better word) for storytelling or whatever in media.
One that could be great that I don’t know about is Skyward Sword cos I could never play it being lefthanded as I am. I’m so looking forward to the remake in July!
Kzinssie
(she/her)
I get how "you always get something for exploring" was a big plus for a lot of people, but for me that's heavily undercut by the lack of reward variety. In classic Zelda games you might not find something in every nook and cranny, but if you do it could be a heart piece, or an equipment/ammo upgrade, or a Rupee stash, or a game-specific reward like Kinstones or seashells, and that added a lot to the joy of exploring for me. In BotW it's almost always going to be one of three things: a shrine (which you can see from a distance and you have a full-on radar for), a Korok (which you can usually tell it's going to be once you get a feel for the kind of environmental puzzles the game has), or a weapon or rare material (which you can tell it's going to be because those are the only things that are in chests, plus they're entirely expendable). Making heart/stamina pieces standalone and separate from shrines, or adding in something like Kinstones, or even just putting everything in chests so you don't know what you're going to get until you open it, would have done a lot for me.
Anyway, I don't want this thread to totally derail into Breath of the Wild discourse, so:
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): THIRD SESSION
This covers the remainder of that trip into Eclair Palace to the initial arrival at Nantendo headquarters. That palace bit really was incredibly frustrating - it's trying to demand precision platforming, but the engine just isn't built for it (this engine went on to be reused for Link's Awakening, so it controls almost identically), so it mostly just feels really finicky and awkward. I did eventually persist and get through it, though, and was immediately given a reminder of why I love this game - taking a ship from the medieval kingdom of Mille-Feuille to a distant island that just, like... has a modern corporate headquarters on it. With no explanation. You go into the cafeteria and convince a scientist (who went on to cameo in Wario Land by my understanding) that you're a sushi enthusiast by picking the right criticisms of the cafeteria sushi, and then you're sent to harvest some wasabi from the fields behind the headquarters. It's incredibly charming and out of left field, and it put a smile on my face the same way a lot of stuff in Startropics did. Also, since I didn't mention it before now: the overworld theme from this game is probably one of my favorite pieces of Nintendo music, easily up there with the likes of the classic Zelda theme for capturing a feeling of adventure.
Anyway, I don't want this thread to totally derail into Breath of the Wild discourse, so:
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): THIRD SESSION
This covers the remainder of that trip into Eclair Palace to the initial arrival at Nantendo headquarters. That palace bit really was incredibly frustrating - it's trying to demand precision platforming, but the engine just isn't built for it (this engine went on to be reused for Link's Awakening, so it controls almost identically), so it mostly just feels really finicky and awkward. I did eventually persist and get through it, though, and was immediately given a reminder of why I love this game - taking a ship from the medieval kingdom of Mille-Feuille to a distant island that just, like... has a modern corporate headquarters on it. With no explanation. You go into the cafeteria and convince a scientist (who went on to cameo in Wario Land by my understanding) that you're a sushi enthusiast by picking the right criticisms of the cafeteria sushi, and then you're sent to harvest some wasabi from the fields behind the headquarters. It's incredibly charming and out of left field, and it put a smile on my face the same way a lot of stuff in Startropics did. Also, since I didn't mention it before now: the overworld theme from this game is probably one of my favorite pieces of Nintendo music, easily up there with the likes of the classic Zelda theme for capturing a feeling of adventure.
hahaha you know now that you mention this, are there actually people (who play games and spent a lot of time online, obviously) who didn't do this? not even once???
i personally am about 30 hours into a year-and-a-half long first playthrough of botw so far and it's a pretty conflicting game for me. i'll play for 2-3 hours excitedly and then get stuck or accomplish something and feel no motivation to play again for a long time. (both have happened repeatedly.) it's both thrillingly open and intimidatingly void of obvious direction, but i'm also an obnoxiously stubborn person which makes my interactions with the game feels especially bizarre at times. actually at this point i realize it's been quite a while since i last booted it up because it seemed to me i was unlikely to find anything to do at the moment that doesn't involve fighting or going somewhere where some asshole will snipe me with a laser from 10 screens away
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Kzinssie
(she/her)
Part of why I mentioned not wanting to derail the thread is that I am also at risk of doing that. What worked, didn't work, and almost worked for me about BotW, and how a sequel could improve on it, is a fascinating topic for me but if we talk about that now then when I actually get there it'll just be a BotW playlog from someone who doesn't particularly like BotW
Kzinssie
(she/her)
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): FOURTH SESSION
This game is beginning to drag a bit, I'm afraid. Getting the wasabi involved a lengthy, confusing teleporter maze with constant enemies, followed by an annoying sidescrolling mini-dungeon involving a lot of places you can fall down and not come back up. This was immediately followed by a bland ice world with wolves and polar bears, which is where I currently am - I'm having to search the entire area to find an elder who's become a hermit. This feels like the low point of the game, but hopefully it'll pick up soon - based on my inventory slots and hearts, it feels like I'm coming up on the end of the game, but time will tell on that.
This game is beginning to drag a bit, I'm afraid. Getting the wasabi involved a lengthy, confusing teleporter maze with constant enemies, followed by an annoying sidescrolling mini-dungeon involving a lot of places you can fall down and not come back up. This was immediately followed by a bland ice world with wolves and polar bears, which is where I currently am - I'm having to search the entire area to find an elder who's become a hermit. This feels like the low point of the game, but hopefully it'll pick up soon - based on my inventory slots and hearts, it feels like I'm coming up on the end of the game, but time will tell on that.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
Yeah, my childhood experience definitely doesn't seem like it was the intended one, but it's still one that was very special to me. I do wonder if that was a change in localization - I know that, for example, one reason Dragon Quest III was so much more popular in Japan than the West was that the Western release had a full map of Alefgard included in the manual or something, while in Japan Alefgard's appearance was a mindblowing endgame twist that gave it huge word-of-mouth spread ("you gotta play Dragon Quest 3 so I can hear what you thought of the twist at the end!")
Kzinssie
(she/her)
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): FIFTH SESSION
I hate to say it, but this game's charm is starting to wear off for me. The ice cavern questline was a lot of wandering around enemy-filled screens tracking down the one NPC you need to find to progress the event flags, and that led directly into an old west town that was much of the same despite the more novel setting. The enemies are also starting to get incredibly strong to justify the existence of the monster-stunning wasabi item, which is an annoying item to have to wade through menus to select and use in practically every battle. This is probably going to end up with Startropics in the "flawed but charming, could use a remake to iron out its flaws" box.
I hate to say it, but this game's charm is starting to wear off for me. The ice cavern questline was a lot of wandering around enemy-filled screens tracking down the one NPC you need to find to progress the event flags, and that led directly into an old west town that was much of the same despite the more novel setting. The enemies are also starting to get incredibly strong to justify the existence of the monster-stunning wasabi item, which is an annoying item to have to wade through menus to select and use in practically every battle. This is probably going to end up with Startropics in the "flawed but charming, could use a remake to iron out its flaws" box.
Timeline or no timeline, Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild fit together very nicely, narratively speaking. Link and Zelda make great foils to their respective reincarnations, creating a sort of meta story about how the duties they took on willingly became expectations they were trapped by (which is also a serviceable metaphor for the series getting stuck in its ways, I suppose). Going back to the earlier game and interpreting them as the same people in (initially) happier circumstances will hold up, I believe.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
KAERU NO TAME NI KANE WA NARU (1992): FINAL SESSION + RETROSPECTIVE
So of course, as soon as I talk about the charm starting to wear off the game immediately picks up and I finish the rest of it in one sitting. A lot of plot is packed into the last couple hours of this game, as well as a hilarious "party" mechanic where you let your allies charge ahead and kill enemies for you (and, in one case, have so many characters following you caterpillar-style that you can overload the sprite limit and make NPCs disappear). The charm comes back in full force, culminating in a mostly-cinematic "final battle" that's mostly just a series of cutscenes where the cavalry arrives one by one. It's not a perfect conclusion, though - there's a pretty awful stealth segment where you have to rely on the game's extremely unreliable RNG escape mechanic, and a few places where deciphering where to go next is tricky. I'm definitely satisfied with it, though.
Final thoughts: pretty solid! It definitely has some jank in places, and the second act sags a bit, but this is a pretty great game overall. I'm a little surprised this didn't get a release outside Japan, given that I'm pretty sure Seiken Densetsu/Final Fantasy Adventure was pretty successful and this is definitely pretty similar. This is definitely a game that could benefit a lot from a remake, but more than that I'd love to see more games inspired by its mechanics - if memory serves the first Tingle game is a sort of spiritual successor to this, so that's something to look forward to. Also, the final boss in particular has me wondering if there's a bit of this game's DNA in the Mario RPGs? This predates Super Mario RPG by 4 years, and I wonder if anyone who worked on this went on to work on that as well.
also, unrelatedly to basically anything: dr. knit says "red snake, come on!" during the final battle, which reminded me of yuu and rei from puyo puyo having a similar "red wisp, come on!/blue wisp, come on!" in their spell chain. is that a reference to some giant robo series or something
So of course, as soon as I talk about the charm starting to wear off the game immediately picks up and I finish the rest of it in one sitting. A lot of plot is packed into the last couple hours of this game, as well as a hilarious "party" mechanic where you let your allies charge ahead and kill enemies for you (and, in one case, have so many characters following you caterpillar-style that you can overload the sprite limit and make NPCs disappear). The charm comes back in full force, culminating in a mostly-cinematic "final battle" that's mostly just a series of cutscenes where the cavalry arrives one by one. It's not a perfect conclusion, though - there's a pretty awful stealth segment where you have to rely on the game's extremely unreliable RNG escape mechanic, and a few places where deciphering where to go next is tricky. I'm definitely satisfied with it, though.
Final thoughts: pretty solid! It definitely has some jank in places, and the second act sags a bit, but this is a pretty great game overall. I'm a little surprised this didn't get a release outside Japan, given that I'm pretty sure Seiken Densetsu/Final Fantasy Adventure was pretty successful and this is definitely pretty similar. This is definitely a game that could benefit a lot from a remake, but more than that I'd love to see more games inspired by its mechanics - if memory serves the first Tingle game is a sort of spiritual successor to this, so that's something to look forward to. Also, the final boss in particular has me wondering if there's a bit of this game's DNA in the Mario RPGs? This predates Super Mario RPG by 4 years, and I wonder if anyone who worked on this went on to work on that as well.
also, unrelatedly to basically anything: dr. knit says "red snake, come on!" during the final battle, which reminded me of yuu and rei from puyo puyo having a similar "red wisp, come on!/blue wisp, come on!" in their spell chain. is that a reference to some giant robo series or something
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Kzinssie
(she/her)
LINK'S AWAKENING (1993): PRE-GAME THOUGHTS
I never had this one as a kid. I didn't get around to playing it until the 3DS Virtual Console release, where I enjoyed it quite a bit but never finished it, and it was an ex of mine's favorite Zelda. I remember appreciating the weird off-brand vibes and loving the music, but reaching a point where I couldn't figure out how to progress and just sorta giving it up. I'm definitely excited to revisit it, especially in the context of its place in the series - I hadn't actually realized this predated Ocarina at the time I played it, and reversed the order of inspiration on stuff like Marin's family and the owl.
I never had this one as a kid. I didn't get around to playing it until the 3DS Virtual Console release, where I enjoyed it quite a bit but never finished it, and it was an ex of mine's favorite Zelda. I remember appreciating the weird off-brand vibes and loving the music, but reaching a point where I couldn't figure out how to progress and just sorta giving it up. I'm definitely excited to revisit it, especially in the context of its place in the series - I hadn't actually realized this predated Ocarina at the time I played it, and reversed the order of inspiration on stuff like Marin's family and the owl.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
LINK'S AWAKENING (1993): TAIL CAVE
Wow, this is so much different in the context of its original release order. A lot of the big game changers of Ocarina of Time are really just kinda right here - the greater focus on gating progression behind dungeon items (Link to the Past had a bit of that, but the Hookshot and Titan's Mitt were really the only ones that opened up the Dark World at all), the more linear dungeons in general, the sidequest design (I've already done the trading quest up to the bananas) - and unfortunately, that means some of the worst parts of Ocarina on as well. This game is really wordy at times, with the long owl monologues and
Also, this is the sort of thing you only really notice when playing a bunch of Zelda games in a row like this, but they're kind of at their hardest in the first couple of dungeons. I died quite a few times in Tail Cave and nearly died in Hyrule Castle back in Link to the Past - in the early game you go down in a maximum of 6 hits, often less, with hearts being all too rare, while in the late game you've got 10+ Heart Containers and potions and fairy bottles and most enemies are still only doing 1-2 hearts of damage tops. I feel like the later games get better about this, but time will tell.
Wow, this is so much different in the context of its original release order. A lot of the big game changers of Ocarina of Time are really just kinda right here - the greater focus on gating progression behind dungeon items (Link to the Past had a bit of that, but the Hookshot and Titan's Mitt were really the only ones that opened up the Dark World at all), the more linear dungeons in general, the sidequest design (I've already done the trading quest up to the bananas) - and unfortunately, that means some of the worst parts of Ocarina on as well. This game is really wordy at times, with the long owl monologues and
Code:
Wow! This looks
pretty heavy!
You won't be
able to lift it
with just your
bare hands...
4-So
Spicy
Yup. When I first played Ocarina and I got to Lon-Lon Ranch and saw Talon and Malon, I was like, "Oh, that definitely has to be a reference."
Link's Awakening is a fun game. Also has a ton of Mario references.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
This is way more tangential than Malon, but I wonder if Medli from Wind Waker might also be slightly inspired by Marin. Island girl who plays a sacred song connected to a sleeping god-being, with some connection to seagulls? They even have vaguely similar hairstyles, and Marin plays a harp in official art. I wonder if the Wind Waker writers looked to the last game about sea travel and islands for inspiration to some extent?