Eff It, I'm Going Through The Whole Zelda Series (And Then Some) Until I Get Bored (Now Reading: a bunch of pre-OoT manga)

[Torzelbaum]

a question for the thread as i am laying awake at 2 am: should "animal crossing new leaf all loans with the zelda amiibo villagers hacked into the starting town" be on my list

Is there anything about the AC gameplay that is even remotely Zelda-like or was inspired by the Zelda games? Because I am struggling to see the connection here.

when playing a bunch of Zelda games in a row like this, but they're kind of at their hardest in the first couple of dungeons. I died quite a few times in Tail Cave and nearly died in Hyrule Castle back in Link to the Past - in the early game you go down in a maximum of 6 hits, often less, with hearts being all too rare, while in the late game you've got 10+ Heart Containers and potions and fairy bottles and most enemies are still only doing 1-2 hearts of damage tops.

And also armor and shield upgrades and sword upgrades and "sub-weapons" which allow you to attack from a distance or allow you to lock down enemies.

 

[Kzinssie]

Is there anything about the AC gameplay that is even remotely Zelda-like or was inspired by the Zelda games? Because I am struggling to see the connection here.

It's literally just that Zelda characters and items are available, but if memory serves the original Doubutsu no Mori did start as an action-RPG on the Zelda 64 engine (the infamous gigaleak reveals a ton of shared source code) before they realized the town building gimmick they came up with was the most interesting part. I've also already included the Smash games and SoulCalibur II, so there's precedent for games that include Zelda content in a way that reflects on the series's perception.

 

[Violentvixen]

Link's Awakening was the first Zelda game I owned, and the first I beat (although I've still only beat this, Minish Cap and Breath of the Wild). I bought a Game Boy Color as my original gray brick was dying and this was either bundled with it or recommended as a game to take full advantage of the color.

I used GameFAQs a lot, but then a couple turned out to be wrong so I started writing out how I found my way through the dungeons, or printing out some pages of an FAQ and annotating it.

Animal Village still gets stuck in my head quite often.

 

[Ludendorkk]

Link's Awakening, man. What a game.

 

[Phantoon]

I got A Link To The Past and Link's Awakening on the same Christmas. While I appreciate that aLttP is a towering piece of game design, the Zelda I fell in love with was monochrome. I think it adds even more to the Ocarina formula than that listed. The Twin Peaks style quirkiness appeared here. The melancholy that lies behind all of Majora's Mask is also here. Koholint is also doomed, but in the inverse of Majora's Mask Link is the one to doom it.

 

[Kzinssie]

LINK'S AWAKENING (1993): BOTTLE GROTTO

Hoo boy. So, first off: the moblin camp bit is very cool. Between this and the King Zora in LttP, there's an effort here to characterize monsters as people with their own societies that I don't think this franchise ever truly returns to. Walking around with Bow Wow eviscerating everything is, of course, a highlight, and it also feels like a descendant of Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru's lategame "party" system. But then there's the dungeon, and folks, this one is pretty bad. It's confusingly laid out, requires several obscure leaps to solve puzzles, and has a few pretty mean rooms that inevitably drain your health. The boss is also the worst of both worlds of Zelda boss design, a long, tedious first half where you mostly just wait for him to let you hit him, followed by a frenetic and dangerous second half where you can die from full health very quickly if you aren't careful. It's unfortunate, because the concept of the boss might be my favorite so far. I wonder if there was some weird lost in translation thing with "bottle" and "jar" in both the name of the dungeon (the outline is far closer to a jar) and the boss referring to the jar he lives in as his "bottle"?

 

[Phantoon]

He's a genie in a bottle. It's weird that it's referred to as a bottle I guess, because it's generally a lamp that they're portrayed as being in.

I played through it again over Christmas. I liked it a lot still, but the Catfish's Maw rubbed me the wrong way. There's a lot of chasing an idiot Stalfos into one of (five?) potential rooms. Other than that I enjoyed it all.

 

[fanboymaster]

I feel bad that I can never enjoy Link's Awakening as much as it probably deserves because I had just the most rotten luck with it. Somehow fucked up my way into the unwinnable state in my gray cart copy and lost my save several times on DX so all my memories of it are kinda just tainted by being pissed off at the game. Enjoying this thread but this bubbled to the surface of my mind and I needed to let it out.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Is there anything about the AC gameplay that is even remotely Zelda-like or was inspired by the Zelda games? Because I am struggling to see the connection here.

I first read this without reading the post you were responding to, and was already planning out my big effort post response before I realized you guys were talking about Animal Crossing, not Assassin's Creed. A franchise an old roommate often described to me as "modern Zelda". Which I think there's enough parallels in the core gameplay to make an honest argument around.

Link's Awakening, man. What a game.

I am here to add to the chorus of praise to Link's Awakening. It was also my first Zelda, and therefore the one I have the most nostalgia for and is my favorite. I'd like to think though that even without all the warm fuzzies, I'd still appreciate it for being a masterpiece in design and for squeezing every single possible amount of oomph out of the ole GameBoy.

 

[Phantoon]

Actually, as much as the Catfish's Maw irritates me it's another innovation that became more obvious than Ocarina; story finding its way into the dungeons. It's obvious in the Forest, Fire and Spirit Temples where you have story like objectives to fulfill apart from the usual ones

 

[FelixSH]

LA was also my first Zelda, and the one that thaught me how Zelda puzzles work. What a great, beautiful looking, quirky game. Kokolint is such a great setting, I love it.

This is also the first, that has real dungeon puzzles, I think. Like, LttP still always felt more like a its dungeons were mazes with a bunch of enemies. Even if they started to introduce the puzzle element there, it felt less of a focus, whereas here, the puzzles become more important. At least that's how I remember it, it's ages since I played either game.

 

[Phantoon]

That's true, I haven't played aLttP for a long time. Link's Awakening is a game made by people who really wanted to make it and it really shows.

 

[Kzinssie]

Link's Awakening has that early Game Boy charm where the creators were both very excited to be working on Zelda and knew that, because the Game Boy was seen as a "lesser" system at the time, they had more leeway to experiment with the formula and world. Mario Land (both 1 and 2) and Final Fantasy Gaiden also had a similar thing going on.

 

[Phantoon]

Yes, I seem to recall an interview where they couldn't remember if they'd asked anyone if Kirby could be in it. They'd never get away with that sort of thing nowadays.

 

[Troa11]

LA was not my first Zelda. I'd been with the series from the beginning. Coming from LttP, I found many of the designs more frustrating than anything. I get that not much could be done about the inventory management because Gameboy, but I felt like I was in the item menu non-stop, constantly interrupting the flow of the game.

And then the wordiness. That bugged me a bunch too. Still kinda does. Worse in the DX version where they made some of the previously skippable text now unskippable.

I'm not down on LA. I enjoy it. I play it regularly. But it's not my very favorite either.

 

[Kzinssie]

LINK'S AWAKENING (1993): CASTLE KANALET

This might be kind of a weird breakpoint, but I'm getting tired and don't really want to tackle Key Cavern in the same session. I have to say, it's a bit disappointing how little of a revelation playing Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru was here - Richard is there, and he has a mellow remix of the overworld theme, and the sprites for the frogs are also from the game, but there's not really anything about the actual quest that has much to do with Kaeru no Tame ni - the gold leafs are original to this game, and they didn't even make the castle itself a sidescrolling dungeon. That's not really a criticism, though, and the actual dungeon was mostly fine aside from needing a guide for a couple leaves. The "invisible maze" with the bushes to get the actual key was a bit silly, but far from the worst take on that sort of puzzle.

 

[Kzinssie]

LINK'S AWAKENING (1993): KEY CAVERN

IIRC, this, or close to it, is where I gave up on this game last time I tried to play it. It's an incredibly complicated and interconnected dungeon, and on a technical design level it's very impressive, but running around trying to find the key you missed in such a nonlinear dungeon just isn't all that fun. This isn't helped by the fact that it also adds those godforsaken teleporting birds, which I had assumed you just couldn't beat without the right item until looking up a guide. The 2D platforming section that requires a pinpoint Pegasus Boots jump is also pretty annoying. Honestly, the dungeon design so far has been pretty bad, but maybe it'll pick up, and the overworld stuff has been consistently good.

 

[spines]

i love this game. haven't played it in a while, since i haven't had a handheld i've wanted to use for it and i don't really emulate things if i can help it.

and i definitely feel the "weird" zeldas are my favs. despite a lot of the obvious reocurring motifs i think LA is absolutely iconic in its own way, with a bittersweet and rustic mood and the gameboy visuals and unusual references also kind of selling the "dream" aspect.

it's definitely a pretty tough game to figure out a lot of things in, though, i can agree with that, and that the amount of item menuing you have to do at times is certainly excessive. overall i think it uses the system really cleverly, and especially for a game predating pokemon it's almost like an idealization of the gameboy made reality (i think the other game i've played that i see that way is sunsoft's trip world), but as a game it's definitely got some flaws and is sometimes a little too ambitious for its own good.

 

[Kzinssie]

I haven't played the Switch version and it's a long ways off for this thread, does it improve the item menu/control scheme at all? I feel like you could probably go with a 3D-style "3 item buttons [B, X, and Y] plus sword on A" thing, and then maybe map items like Power Bracelet and Pegasus Boots to hotkeys. Now that I think about it, actually, the multiple item buttons might be OoT's secret biggest innovation.

 

[Bongo]

Link's Awakening on Switch is a vast improvement on controls, yes. It also doesn't trigger the item interaction hints just by bumping into objects.

 

[Ludendorkk]

Link's Awakening Switch basically fixes every problem people have with the controls, yes. I also think it's all around one of the best remakes ever, up there with REmake.

 

[Phantoon]

I think in some areas it makes the secrets slightly less obvious - due to the lack of fixed screens some of the secrets aren't highlighted by their framing anymore. I feel that the (crucial) path to Animal Village was less obvious in the remake, for example.

Also the music isn't as good

 

[Kzinssie]

Also the music isn't as good

oh yeesh i looked up the overworld theme (link's awakening has my favorite overworld theme in the series) and they totally neutered it. something a lot of remakes/remixes of game boy music tends to mix is that theres a sort of inherent intensity to the game boy chip as an instrument, i think you have to keep that (excepting obvious instances where the music should sound softer than the chip is capable of of course)

 

[Phantoon]

Tal Tal Heights is where you really feel it. I think the Switch has a great soundtrack, but as you said, the intensity of the Game Boy soundtrack is gone.

 

[MetManMas]

Is there anything about the AC gameplay that is even remotely Zelda-like or was inspired by the Zelda games? Because I am struggling to see the connection here.

The original Animal Crossing had 2D Zelda style screen transitions and had a net and shovel as tools much like LttP did. And the latest one literally gives you a ladder like the original 8-bit Zelda.

The gameplay flow is different, but the top-down world view and reliance on tools to do stuff (whether it's catching fish and bugs or swimming or jumping over a river) are very Zeldesque things.

 

[4-So]

Link's Awakening music, you say?

Deconstructing: The 8 Dungeons of Link's Awakening - Jason M. Yu

The music of the 8 dungeons in Zelda: Link's Awakening is the subject of this Deconstructing article, where we break down the music and study it in detail.

jasonyu.me

 

[Ludendorkk]

Also the music isn't as good

Extreme disagree, I think it balances perfectly respect for the original material with bold inventiveness. I honestly think this might be the only time a remake has ever gotten this right.

oh yeesh i looked up the overworld theme (link's awakening has my favorite overworld theme in the series) and they totally neutered it. something a lot of remakes/remixes of game boy music tends to mix is that theres a sort of inherent intensity to the game boy chip as an instrument, i think you have to keep that (excepting obvious instances where the music should sound softer than the chip is capable of of course)

Don't spoil yourself but a lot of the music actually incorporates samples of the Game Boy soundtrack, especially dungeons. Ryo Nagamatsu smashed it.

 

[nosimpleway]

I think the wind ensemble sounds great in some tracks and some others are somewhat diminished by it.

I can't get the video embed to work right but hey, enjoy this video on the topic.

 

[Kazin]

More than any game in the series (with the exception of Majora's Mask), I am completely unable to not allow nostalgia to overwhelm me when thinking about Link's Awakening. It wasn't the first Zelda I played, but it was the first one I owned, and I've beaten it literally dozens of times. It and Donkey Kong 94 are the quintessential Game Boy games for me, the absolute tip top of design for that system. I love everything about it (besides the final "main" dungeon). I'm with Phantoon that Catfish's Maw is a bit annoying, though it's still a fun dungeon for the most part imo.

I enjoyed the remake, but prefer the original.

 

[Phantoon]

Link's Awakening music, you say?

Deconstructing: The 8 Dungeons of Link's Awakening - Jason M. Yu

The music of the 8 dungeons in Zelda: Link's Awakening is the subject of this Deconstructing article, where we break down the music and study it in detail.

jasonyu.me

That was fascinating. I hadn't realised quite how clever the soundtrack was, not being a musician.