Eff It, I'm Going Through The Whole Zelda Series (And Then Some) Until I Get Bored (Now Reading: a bunch of pre-OoT manga)

[Kzinssie]

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): TOWER OF HERA ~ DARK WORLD

Man, Tower of Hera kinda sucks, huh? It's not any flaw in the dungeon design per se, but rather the way it reflects poorly on issues with the game's engine - the Mini-Moldorms come at you at weird angles that highlight how weird the sword hitbox is on diagonals, and the bouncy dudes make the game's somewhat imprecise movement even harder to deal with. On the bright side, I actually beat Moldorm first try (and then immediately had to go back in to get the Moon Pearl because I forgot about it). With that, it's on to the Master Sword. It's weird that they didn't just make this the Magical Sword, but it's no wonder this is the one that became part of the franchise's enduring legacy - there's so much fanfare around this sword, even if the actual mythology around it wasn't until later. Anybody else ever notice the Master Sword music ending in the "you got a thiiiing" item jingle? The sword beams feel great in this game. Less great, as I noticed when cleaning up a few remaining checks (at this point I decided to just use the same tracker I use for randomizer): the insane swimming controls. I actually went ahead and finished up Agahnim's Tower while I was here, since it's a pretty short dungeon and sorta caps off the first act. I like how the dungeon is built around the lantern, the very first item you got. Playing this as an adult it seems pretty silly that I ever thought this would be the end of the game, but when you're a kid games sometimes seem unknowably vast. The Agahnim fight was honestly pretty underwhelming, but that might just be because I came in already very well aware of how Dead Man's Volley works. I also think that they do a pretty good job hiding what or who, if anything, is behind Agahnim - if you've played the first two games you'd probably know who Ganon is, but there's no real indication at this point that Agahnim is anything more than a run of the mill evil wizard. The game sure does just dump a whole lot of exposition on you as soon as you enter the Dark World, though, huh?

 

[muteKi]

I love how Agahnim's sprite ends up looking like Pokey Earthbound in a robe with a large necklace or brooch even if it's obviously not what it's supposed to be at all

 

[Kzinssie]

I love how Agahnim's sprite ends up looking like Pokey Earthbound in a robe with a large necklace or brooch even if it's obviously not what it's supposed to be at all

Honestly, I never had that particular misread, though I can see how some people did. Anyway:

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): DARK WORLD ~ PALACE OF DARKNESS

I've already mentioned it, but I seriously do just love how the Dark World looks in this game. It is kind of a shame that the start of it is so linear, but I suppose it's for the best that new players don't get overwhelmed with options. Hinox are my all-time favorite Zelda enemy, by the way. As for PoD, I kinda love how the difficulty immediately ramps up in the Dark World with, IIRC, one of the hardest and most complicated dungeons in the entire game. I also love that the hammer in this game, rather than some big warhammer, is a goofy little cartoon mallet Link swings one-handed. Fun fact: did you know those creepy goblin things that mirror your movements are supposed to be Goriyas? Like, the boomerang guys with the mustaches? Dunno what happened there.

 

[FelixSH]

It also has the boss that gave me the most difficulty, when first playing this game. God, I remember how I ran into that room again and again.

 

[muteKi]

Yeah when I did my first serious playthrough of the game a while back (a couple years now I think?) while trying to collect just about dang near everything and fully explore every dungeon, I do believe that Palace of Darkness had the most deaths by far.

 

[Violentvixen]

LINK NO BOUKEN (MISHOUZAKI) (1991)

Once again, Link's Shadow is more of a character, though here he's a very cool monstrous dark elf who can warp and stretch his body, showing off the same sort of badass monster art that Ganon had in the Zelda 1 manga - he's also a sort of manifestation of Ganon's true form.

That Shadow Link design is intense and I love it.

 

[Beowulf]

It was only very recently that I found out you can (and, in fact, are supposed to) break the Helmasaur King's mask with the hammer. I exclusively used bombs for literally decades.

 

[nosimpleway]

I read somewhere that when they were designing the first LoZ game, they intended Christianity to be the dominant religion in Hyrule. In Japan in the 80s Christianity was weird and exotic, so it was fine in a fantasy game I guess. So cross on the shield for divine protection, crosses on the gravestones, and you power up your magic by chanting out of a Bible.

Then they figured three goddesses would be a better plot hook

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Did Nintendo ever fit BotW into their official timeline? Because it could honestly go literally anywhere post-Skyward Sword, IMO. Just probably the neatest place is at some point far far far down the line post-OoT. It's tantalizing to think that Hyrule had a Renaissance Period and advanced to the Early Modern Era and as a side effect started becoming interested in doing archeological excavations. Only to find oops there was this uber-tech civ pre-SS, and all their shit has been slumbering below eons of sediment.

 

[Kzinssie]

Did Nintendo ever fit BotW into their official timeline? Because it could honestly go literally anywhere post-Skyward Sword, IMO. Just probably the neatest place is at some point far far far down the line post-OoT. It's tantalizing to think that Hyrule had a Renaissance Period and advanced to the Early Modern Era and as a side effect started becoming interested in doing archeological excavations. Only to find oops there was this uber-tech civ pre-SS, and all their shit has been slumbering below eons of sediment.

The canon explanation for BotW is that it is eons after any of the canon Zelda games, to the point that it is impossible to place on a timeline branch due to being so far after that the events of all previous games have passed into myth. It's a good explanation, and a nice way to shed all the timeline baggage (though from what I've heard about Age of Calamity they immediately introduced all new timeline baggage). Anyway:

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): POST-PALACE OF DARKNESS OVERWORLD EXPLORATION

Yeah, probably a weird place to cut, but using a tracker means there's a whole lot here and I'd like to return to the "dungeon, followed by overworld structure" format. The way this game has puzzles between the Light and Dark worlds is very fun, and I was caught off guard by how emotionally fraught the Flute sidequest was. Using a tracker meant this was a bit "going down the checklist", but I made sure to take detours to talk to incidental NPCs - I really like how Link's house in the Light World is replaced by a completely incidental bomb shop, compared to something more plot-relevant (which iirc is what Link Between Worlds did with it). Things are a bit nonlinear from here, but I think I'm gonna do them in the crystal number order, so Swamp Palace is next.

 

[Kzinssie]

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): SWAMP PALACE

No overworld exploration this time, because... Hookshot alone didn't unlock anything! Swamp Palace is a cool dungeon with not a lot to talk about specifically, so since the second maiden namedropped Ganondorf it's time to talk about the one retcon in OoT I hate: Ganondorf. In this game, he's described as a king of thieves who broke into the Golden Land with his men, killed all of them, and took the Triforce for himself, and I'm sorry, but that's so much fucking cooler than him being a vaguely racist Middle Eastern dude who got the Triforce via ambiguous, mostly-offscreen political maneuvering. The LttP Ganondorf story is so much cooler and more interesting than what we got in Ocarina, and I'm sad it's been basically struck from the record.

 

[Kzinssie]

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): SKULL WOODS

This is kind of a low point, huh? This dungeon is more annoying than anything, which is arguably the worst thing it could be - a lot of navigating finicky puzzles between multiple rooms while dealing with bumpers, nigh-invincible Gibdos, and the most obnoxious Wallmasters in franchise history. It's a shame, because I love the vibe of a "dungeon" that's just kind of a cave system beneath an overworld area. Also, big "boo" on the maiden telling Link he's a hero because of his bloodline as opposed to the "inheritor of the spirit of courage" concept later games embrace. On the other hand, this portion of the game made me appreciate Link to the Past's connection to Zelda 1 much more - realizing that, for instance, the reason you get insane amounts of rupees is because you're meant to be spending them all on potions, and that the dungeons are designed to be built much more around "get in, fight the boss, get out" as opposed to full clearing.

 

[Kzinssie]

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): THIEVES' TOWN

This is probably my favorite dungeon in the game. It's just something about the concept of a dungeon that feels like a lived-in hideout of thieves, complete with an area that just feels like somebody's quarters, combined with Blind easily being the most characterful boss in the series so far - he's a trickster, and one set up all the way back at the first time you visit Kakariko. Cool fight, too, even if I do realize now it's mostly just a spin on Gleeok.

 

[FelixSH]

Yeah, I really like that Blind is surrounded by some local legends, or something like that, and that you hear about him from the beginning. When I played this game the last time (which is already a few years ago, no idea when), I was pretty surprised, that this regular guy is suddenly a boss. Makes the world a bit bigger, I feel, that Link isn't the only one who can become really powerful in this world.

 

[4-So]

Regarding where Breath of the Wild "fits" on the timeline. (Answer: It does not, on purpose.)

Eiji Aonuma explains why Zelda: Breath of the Wild's timeline placing must remain secret

Every Zelda game has its secrets, but nothing entertains fans of Nintendo's legendary adventure series more than discus…

www.eurogamer.net

"In books like the recently released The Legend of Zelda Encyclopedia, we revealed where each Zelda game fell on a timeline and how their stories related, but we didn't do that for Breath of the Wild. There is a reason for that. With this game, we saw just how many players were playing in their own way and had those reactions I just mentioned.

"We realised that people were enjoying imagining the story that emerged from the fragmentary imagery we were providing. If we defined a restricted timeline, then there would be a definitive story, and it would eliminate the room for imagination, which wouldn't be as fun.

"We want players to be able to continue having fun imagining this world even after they are finished with the game, so, this time, we decided that we would avoid making clarifications. I hope that everyone can find their own answer, in their own way."

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

I like using my imagination sure. But that’s not the be-all-end-all to me. I like games precisely because I enjoy seeing the imagination of others just as much if not more than my own. I always thought “we kept it vague because imagination!” always felt like a cop out.

 

[Kazin]

Regarding where Breath of the Wild "fits" on the timeline. (Answer: It does not, on purpose.)

Eiji Aonuma explains why Zelda: Breath of the Wild's timeline placing must remain secret

Every Zelda game has its secrets, but nothing entertains fans of Nintendo's legendary adventure series more than discus…

www.eurogamer.net

Which they almost immediately went back on* because they made that prequel Musou, whatever it does to the official story of BotW.

*I take no issue with this, btw, I have never cared about the Zelda timeline. Just thought it was amusing lol

 

[Kzinssie]

Yeah, it's extremely funny that they abandoned the weird convoluted timeline and immediately created a whole new timeline clusterfuck with the very second game. Powerful move to be sure

 

[FelixSH]

I like using my imagination sure. But that’s not the be-all-end-all to me. I like games precisely because I enjoy seeing the imagination of others just as much if not more than my own. I always thought “we kept it vague because imagination!” always felt like a cop out.

While I generally agree, this here seems to be a special case, in that I think no one at Nintendo had an idea about an official timeline, until they sat down and thought it through for the book. So, it's probably not a case of "I have the true story in my head, I'm just not sharing it with you" and more "Do we have to make up another connection, when we don't really have one? No? Great."

I mean, there are some connections between games, like Zelda 1 and 2, or WW and it's sequels. And I remember an interview, about how OoT was supposed to be the backstory of LttP, and would be from now on the backstory of all future Zelda games. But that is ages ago, and there were only four games out at that point. By now, I can't imagine that anyone at Nintendo really cares about a timeline.

I do love the timelines people think about, because it's just fun to look at these games and see how they might be connected. But I don't think there is a true, final answer to this, even with Nintendos official one.

 

[Kirin]

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): DARK WORLD ~ PALACE OF DARKNESS

I've already mentioned it, but I seriously do just love how the Dark World looks in this game. It is kind of a shame that the start of it is so linear, but I suppose it's for the best that new players don't get overwhelmed with options. Hinox are my all-time favorite Zelda enemy, by the way. As for PoD, I kinda love how the difficulty immediately ramps up in the Dark World with, IIRC, one of the hardest and most complicated dungeons in the entire game.

Reading this stuff, the Dark World theme immediately began playing in my head, and goddamn is that a fantastic piece of music. One of the all-time greats in my book.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

While I generally agree, this here seems to be a special case, in that I think no one at Nintendo had an idea about an official timeline, until they sat down and thought it through for the book. So, it's probably not a case of "I have the true story in my head, I'm just not sharing it with you" and more "Do we have to make up another connection, when we don't really have one? No? Great."

Yea I agree. Still mildly disappointing though. I really like digging into pieces of media where there’s an impressive, extensive amount of thought put into the setting. And when the devs are like, “Yeah, but we didn’t want to think that hard so we didn’t” is disappointing. Especially with BotW which practically screams for more narrative to take advantage of this wonderful world they built, but turns out nope.

 

[Beowulf]

I mean, there are some connections between games, like Zelda 1 and 2, or WW and it's sequels. And I remember an interview, about how OoT was supposed to be the backstory of LttP, and would be from now on the backstory of all future Zelda games. But that is ages ago, and there were only four games out at that point. By now, I can't imagine that anyone at Nintendo really cares about a timeline.

I do love the timelines people think about, because it's just fun to look at these games and see how they might be connected. But I don't think there is a true, final answer to this, even with Nintendos official one.

The thing is, they really brought it on themselves: ALttP was a prequel to the first two games. Then OoT was a prequel to that. Then Minish Cap was a prequel to that. Then Skyward Sword was a prequel to that. Their addiction to making prequels forced the need for a timeline!

 

[Kzinssie]

Yea I agree. Still mildly disappointing though. I really like digging into pieces of media where there’s an impressive, extensive amount of thought put into the setting. And when the devs are like, “Yeah, but we didn’t want to think that hard so we didn’t” is disappointing. Especially with BotW which practically screams for more narrative to take advantage of this wonderful world they built, but turns out nope.

BotW is way down the line, but I would describe my feelings on that game as "chronically underutilized". I get the dedication to allowing you to truly forge your own path through the game, but for me it just felt like everything I was doing was optional and half-baked.

Reading this stuff, the Dark World theme immediately began playing in my head, and goddamn is that a fantastic piece of music. One of the all-time greats in my book.

I haven't been going out of my way to mention it, but the music in this game is really consistently great. There's an austere, ancient vibe to just about every track, and that combined with the cartoony visuals creates a vibe Zelda has never really captured since. I wonder if Wind Waker would have done it in the draft where you spent more time in the flooded, abandoned Hyrule?

 

[Kzinssie]

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): OVERWORLD ~ ICE PALACE

Given the importance the Master Sword would end up having in the lore, it's pretty wild that you just get some dudes to temper it here, right? I like to think that the tempered Master Sword would end up becoming the Magical Sword from the first two games, but I have no idea if that's supported anywhere in canon. Also: is there anything really indicating that the mute guy outside the desert is who you're supposed to take the locked chest to? I remember some dude in Blind's hut in the Light World mentioning he used to be a thief, but that's a pretty big stretch. Ah well. As for Ice Palace, I actually enjoyed it more than I was expecting to. It got a bit backtrack-y at times, but most of the new enemies it introduces are fun, and the ice physics are (mostly) the good kind of wrestling with the controls, compared to Tower of Hera's "HIT THE GODDAMN MOLDORM ASSHOLE". Incidentally, I like the Maidens delivering the backstory piecemeal as you rescue them, it's a fun way to have a sense of continuity and progression no matter what order you do the dungeons in.

 

[4-So]

My personal take on the Zelda timeline is that unless each game is explicitly related to another (Ex: Zelda 1 and Adventure of Link), I don't have any reason to assume there's a relation, where relation means continuity. Each game has a kind of timeline; Breath of the Wild, as example, clearly has a past, present, and future. But as a self-contained story, it has no part in a "greater timeline", for lack of better term. (I'm not mentioning Age of Calamity; I have not played it.) The Imprisoning War mentioned in A Link To The Past is specific to A Link To The Past; it doesn't reference a different game. Wind Waker has imagery that implicates the events in Ocarina of Time but I've taken that to be borrowed imagery, not continuity.

I would not begrudge anyone who wants to speculate on a traditional timeline or continuity. That stuff is fun. But for me, it's more interesting to think of the Zelda games as being the same tale or story (read: legend), eternally retold. Between the tellings there may be variations, both large and small, but it's essentially the same story. That's more fascinating to me than a kind of necessary continuity, which always landed for me as seeing a connection - because the human mind has a tendency to do that - when there is none. Keeping the idea firmly rooted in "legend" provides a fairytale quality I appreciate greatly.

 

[Kzinssie]

I definitely think it varies from game to game - these early games are very much designed as standalone stories, Zelda 2 aside, with Ocarina of Time being loosely based on Link to the Past's Imprisoning War, but as the series goes on more effort is definitely made to connect them, with stuff like the OoT Sages in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess directly alluding to Ocarina of Time's ending with Ganondorf's backstory. This culminates in Skyward Sword, published after Hyrule Historia and made partially with the intent of tying up the loose ends it left behind. Still, I think every Zelda game does very much stand on its own - you can take this stuff as much or as little as you want. Anyway:

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): MISERY MIRE

I remember hating this one a lot when I've played it in randomizer, so I didn't have high hopes going in, but I actually liked this dungeon quite a bit! I don't know if the earlier dungeons really were that much worse than these or if I've just gotten more used to this game's controls and design style, but it's been a while since I've disliked a dungeon. My biggest complaint is that swamp levels are one of my favorite aesthetic themes in games and this is more of a wizard dungeon, with hardly anything else in the surrounding swamp. The Cane of Somaria is an interesting item, and one I seem to recall being somewhat underutilized in this game - I did once play a Zelda Classic custom quest which had it as your main weapon, though, which was very fun. The Maiden dialogue here kind of implies that all of the bosses so far have been sentient, and sort of generals of Ganon's army - this is something that I wish Zelda did more with, since I think it gets alluded to a few more times over the course of the series. I want to know about the deep inner life of King Dodongo, dammit!

 

[Kazin]

I want to know about the deep explosive inner life of King Dodongo, dammit!

 

[Torzelbaum]

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): SKULL WOODS

This is kind of a low point, huh? This dungeon is more annoying than anything, which is arguably the worst thing it could be - a lot of navigating finicky puzzles between multiple rooms while dealing with bumpers, nigh-invincible Gibdos, and the most obnoxious Wallmasters in franchise history.

I was going to comment on how the fire rod can one-shot the Gibdos but then I remembered that item is the big chest reward in Skull Woods in the vanilla (i.e. non-randomized) version of the game.

Cool fight, too, even if I do realize now it's mostly just a spin on Gleeok.

Oh. I had never thought of it like that... Now I'm trying to think if any of the other LttP bosses are takes on bosses from the previous games (by release order).

I want to know about the deep inner life of King Dodongo, dammit!

"King Dodongo dislike smoke and hammers."

 

[Kzinssie]

LINK TO THE PAST (1991): THE REST OF THE GAME & RETROSPECTIVE

I realized I didn't have anything specific to say about Turtle Rock beyond "cool dungeon, I suppose," so I went ahead and finished the rest of the game too. Ganon's Tower was brutal, but I suppose for a final dungeon that works - I do like how comparatively nonlinear it is, with your only real objective being to find the Big Key in the basement and then climb. The final boss fight with Ganon is easy enough if you already know his patterns, but cool nonetheless - I really hope we get classic blue pig Ganon in Smash one of these days. The ending is kind of odd, though, because Link's wish being to revive everyone implies stuff about his character that isn't really there in the rest of the game - his only wish seemingly be to bring everyone back, combined with the rabbit form, depicts a very kind-hearted Link that's not really in line with the floppy-walking soldier-slaying pot vandalizer implied by the gameplay.

So, final thoughts: game good! The core mechanics, like the movement and especially the wonky sword hitbox, are actually pretty bad, but in a Zelda game good atmosphere and level design is more important, and this game nails that. There's a Grimm fairy-tale vibe to this game that the series has never really recaptured (nor really even tried to to my knowledge), and the overworld is very dense and fun to explore. The dungeon design varies pretty heavily, but is far more good than it is bad - there's a variety to the dungeons on a fundamental design level that I don't seem to recall in any of the other games, with dungeons that are more vertical versus horizontal, more or less linear, interface directly with the overworld, or set up to resemble things other than simple obstacle courses, which gives each dungeon its own feel and identity even aside from their tilesets. As for the story, it's really good - there's definitely a sense of the series' setting and lore not having been fully established, and I think that's going to be fun to contrast with Link Between Worlds when we get there. I like how Ganon's influence is this overpowering influence over the story, and it's a shame that so much of the mystery established here ends up cleared away as the series continues. This was a damn good Zelda to have as my first, and I'm glad it held up so well on a replay. Now: back to the fucking DiCverse

 

[Kzinssie]

THE CRYSTAL TRAP (1992)

Apparently this is part of a series of gamebooks Nintendo did around this time? So yes, this is a choose your own adventure with some basic pen-and-paper puzzles in it based on the Zelda universe as depicted in the show - nothing from Link to the Past I noticed (from what I can tell it hadn't come out stateside yet when this was published), but it did pull a bit from Zelda 2 and the Valiant comics. Full confession here: I didn't finish this, at least not legitimately. I was getting a headache flipping around the PDF I found, and I got to a point where it apparently wanted me to go down some side branch I hadn't even noticed? At that point I just threw my hands up and read the extensive plot summary on the Zelda wiki. If someone ports this to Twine or whatever I'd be glad to give it another go, but as is this is the best I've got. Basically, this is a gamebook where you play as Zelda, who travels around Hyrule to free Link from the titular crystal trap, a crystal Ganon imprisoned him in which he will be sealed in after 24 hours without three things, "hotter than fire, colder than ice, and sweeter than sugar". The solution is, respectively, a magnifying glass to burn the crystal with the sun's rays, a mark of Ganon's handprint (because Ganon's touch is the coldest thing Zelda can imagine, you see), and magic honey made by magic bees. There's plenty of weird shit in here, some of which has its own Zelda Wiki page, and it's a fun little artifact of this era where Nintendo just licensed out their IP to whoever the fuck, but there's not much of value here honestly.