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Eff It, I'm Going Through The Whole Zelda Series (And Then Some) Until I Get Bored (Now Reading: a bunch of pre-OoT manga)
Kzinssie
(she/her)
LINK'S AWAKENING (1993) - ANIMAL VILLAGE
Well, this one was a rollercoaster. I ended up getting frustrated enough to just get out a guide trying to find Animal Village in the first place - Koholint is kind of a badly designed overworld. It's labyrinthine and mostly empty of any secrets or rewards, and the ingame map is laughably useless at actually telling you how to get anywhere. Once I had a guide, though, things were pretty straightforward (aside from the bizarre softlock shown above), and I ended up glad I had a guide on-hand since it listed all the things you could do with Marin following you. "Chaotic bastard hiding behind a veneer of a mysterious waif" is an incredibly fun archetype for a character. However: is the chief bear implying he has some sort of illicit relationship with Marin? I have a hard time figuring out what the hell else that dialogue is supposed to mean. I also had a brief scare with the Lanmola - I stood over it as it died and actually held the Angler Key above my head briefly before having it drop down into the sand pit, making me worried I had somehow despawned it before realizing I had to drop down into the hole.
Well, this one was a rollercoaster. I ended up getting frustrated enough to just get out a guide trying to find Animal Village in the first place - Koholint is kind of a badly designed overworld. It's labyrinthine and mostly empty of any secrets or rewards, and the ingame map is laughably useless at actually telling you how to get anywhere. Once I had a guide, though, things were pretty straightforward (aside from the bizarre softlock shown above), and I ended up glad I had a guide on-hand since it listed all the things you could do with Marin following you. "Chaotic bastard hiding behind a veneer of a mysterious waif" is an incredibly fun archetype for a character. However: is the chief bear implying he has some sort of illicit relationship with Marin? I have a hard time figuring out what the hell else that dialogue is supposed to mean. I also had a brief scare with the Lanmola - I stood over it as it died and actually held the Angler Key above my head briefly before having it drop down into the sand pit, making me worried I had somehow despawned it before realizing I had to drop down into the hole.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
LINK'S AWAKENING (1993) - ANGLER CAVE
Someone earlier in the thread described Link's Awakening as the perfect Game Boy game, and I have to be honest: I don't think I could disagree more. A lot of the flaws in this game that were kind of annoying when I played it previously have been recontextualized quite a bit playing it in the release order - when I assumed this was after OoT, it being far too ambitious for its own good was something I could understand - OoT was a groundbreakingly huge game, it made sense that they'd go for similar scale on Game Boy. But like, in many ways, this game is greater in scope than Link to the Past - it only has one overworld, but it has sidescrolling sections and complicated items and more involved NPC interactions. Also, and why I'm bringing this up here, there were a lot of places in this dungeon where the Game Boy's poor little processor was really struggling to keep up with all the things happening onscreen. While I can certainly respect going so ambitious, there's also a part of me that wishes they'd have just made a Third Quest of sorts - a Zelda 1-scale game would have worked great on Game Boy! I'm a bit down on it, but I don't hate the game or anything - the atmosphere and music alone are keeping me engaged. There are a lot more problems and annoyances piling up than probably any of the games I've played for this thread so far, though.
Someone earlier in the thread described Link's Awakening as the perfect Game Boy game, and I have to be honest: I don't think I could disagree more. A lot of the flaws in this game that were kind of annoying when I played it previously have been recontextualized quite a bit playing it in the release order - when I assumed this was after OoT, it being far too ambitious for its own good was something I could understand - OoT was a groundbreakingly huge game, it made sense that they'd go for similar scale on Game Boy. But like, in many ways, this game is greater in scope than Link to the Past - it only has one overworld, but it has sidescrolling sections and complicated items and more involved NPC interactions. Also, and why I'm bringing this up here, there were a lot of places in this dungeon where the Game Boy's poor little processor was really struggling to keep up with all the things happening onscreen. While I can certainly respect going so ambitious, there's also a part of me that wishes they'd have just made a Third Quest of sorts - a Zelda 1-scale game would have worked great on Game Boy! I'm a bit down on it, but I don't hate the game or anything - the atmosphere and music alone are keeping me engaged. There are a lot more problems and annoyances piling up than probably any of the games I've played for this thread so far, though.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
LINK'S AWAKENING (1993) - CATFISH'S MAW
Uuuugggghhhh. This dungeon was incredibly tedious even with a guide, and I wiped once to the boss due to absolutely godawful luck where he kept running around when I hookshotted him instead of exposing his weakness, though it was at least fun to obliterate the Master Stalfos with the L2 Sword. Speaking of sidequest: the trading quest has been a consistent highlight of the game so far (especially the mermaid necklace thing that barely even tries to hide that it was censored), and the writing in general has been top-notch. Shame about the actual gameplay for the most part, but at least this Hookshot is incredibly fun to use. I dunno, I feel bad about coming in here and bitching with every update when it seems like everybody else in the thread has been swapping stories of how much they love the game, but this one has been a heavily mixed bag for me.
Uuuugggghhhh. This dungeon was incredibly tedious even with a guide, and I wiped once to the boss due to absolutely godawful luck where he kept running around when I hookshotted him instead of exposing his weakness, though it was at least fun to obliterate the Master Stalfos with the L2 Sword. Speaking of sidequest: the trading quest has been a consistent highlight of the game so far (especially the mermaid necklace thing that barely even tries to hide that it was censored), and the writing in general has been top-notch. Shame about the actual gameplay for the most part, but at least this Hookshot is incredibly fun to use. I dunno, I feel bad about coming in here and bitching with every update when it seems like everybody else in the thread has been swapping stories of how much they love the game, but this one has been a heavily mixed bag for me.
Violentvixen
(She/Her)
Indeed, I definitely remembered certain dungeons sounding similar but had never heard it laid out so clearly. Very cool.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
For what it's worth, this definitely feels like the kind of game where I'm going to primarily remember the good over the bad once it's done. I'd say it's probably the weakest mainline Zelda game I've played so far, but more because the lows are low and more frequent than in the others - at its best it's great, and I feel like those parts are gonna be what sticks with me over the annoying dungeons and confusing overworld.
I didn't really care for the game before the remake came along, so it's nice to see something other than unanimous praise for it. It's hard to find it thought of as anything other than the automatic greatest game on its platform, which to me says less about Link's Awakening and more about people's unwillingness to engage and interact with the Game Boy library beyond the big marquee hits.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
I'm not going to say that there's any kind of objective metrics to defining art, and there's no actual right answer as to what "best" even means in the context of videogames. What I will say is that I've played a ton of Game Boy games. It's one of my favourite platforms, and I can't think of another game with this level of ambition and inventiveness outside of the obvious Donkey Kong, or the degree of charm and love that went into it that this has. I've replayed this more than any other game. I wish I knew of another game that gives me what this does. I want recommendations, please.
It's not a criticism of anyone who likes it to that level, rather than the specific language used and the chauvinism implied in such estimations as I've seen it in the context of people discussing the Game Boy, this antiquated thing that obviously can't hold its own weight against a "real" console. Nintendo's own output often gets treated as the only worthwhile material on the system, just because they have that following who'll go anywhere for it. Link's Awakening, in addition to its individual merits, is often viewed through that reductive lens.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
It is worth noting that for all my complaints, Link's Awakening has the best writing of anything I've looked at for this thread so far and it's not even close. Marin is the first character in any of these I've really loved to watch do things, and the themes of connection and loss explored by the whole "Wind Fish's dream" thing are probably my favorite themes Zelda ever explores, even if this is far from the last time they're touched on as the series becomes more story-driven.
My GB game of choice is probably Final Fantasy Legend 2 btw, but I'm no expert on the system's library.
My GB game of choice is probably Final Fantasy Legend 2 btw, but I'm no expert on the system's library.
I have some fond memories of Link's Awakening but the game certainly has some issues and most of 'em stem from trying to have SNES-esque puzzle complexity in a game with far less buttons available.
Kudos to Grezzo for doing a remake with much-needed QOL features, but I'm unlikely to buy it unless it's on sale. I understand that HD development is expensive, but $60 is still a lot of money for what's essentially a Game Boy game with 3D graphics and there's lots of other games I wanna buy for my Switch.
Nothing against the Game Boy library, though! There's lots of great stuff on the platform.
Kudos to Grezzo for doing a remake with much-needed QOL features, but I'm unlikely to buy it unless it's on sale. I understand that HD development is expensive, but $60 is still a lot of money for what's essentially a Game Boy game with 3D graphics and there's lots of other games I wanna buy for my Switch.
Nothing against the Game Boy library, though! There's lots of great stuff on the platform.
I'm not sure Link's Awakening is the best game on the platform. (I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pokemon yet!) But it has a level of ambition and craft that's undeniable. Many aren't, but lots of Gameboy games are scalled back, downgrades of their console companions. And gamers who grew up with Gameboys like myself were probably more likely to get those shitty ports than anything else since shovelware was still pretty prolific and it's not like our moms and dads read EGM to know what was good to buy for us. But Link's Awakening is a game that in a lot of ways surpasses its console predecessors, and it belongs to Nintendo's single most prestigious franchise, so I understand why it would be people's first choice. I actually felt like the original black and white version of the game was sorely underappreciated among my friend circle, and it wasn't until the DX release for GBC that more people I knew began to discover and appreciate the game's majesty, since Gameboy was basically a dead platform in the mid 90s until Pokemon revived it.
For me, it's not that I felt the Gameboy was an inferior experience to consoles. (I actually felt it was superior in a lot of ways since I wasn't constrained to only playing at home and when the TV wasn't being used by other people.) But the Gameboy, at least my original grey brick kind, wasn't something I could really play much of on account of how quickly they would gobble up AA batteries. Which were very expensive and I'd get yelled at if I went through them too much.
For me, it's not that I felt the Gameboy was an inferior experience to consoles. (I actually felt it was superior in a lot of ways since I wasn't constrained to only playing at home and when the TV wasn't being used by other people.) But the Gameboy, at least my original grey brick kind, wasn't something I could really play much of on account of how quickly they would gobble up AA batteries. Which were very expensive and I'd get yelled at if I went through them too much.
Ludendorkk
(he/him)
If it helps I can talk about how overrated I think LTTP is
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
I'm with you, but my experience of aLttP was at the same time as Link's Awakening and it made aLttP look worse only in comparison. If I'd played that first I think I'd have appreciated it more.
Pokemon is absolutely one of the best Game Boy games, however I'd say Gold and Silver would be the representatives from that series to talk about; Red and Blue are amazing and clunky in equal measure. Pokemon GS is another case of wild ambition making something really, really special.
Other than QoL improvements like more buttons being available resulting in less item swapping, for example, the Link's Awakening remake hews very, very close to the Gameboy original, which to me speaks highly of the original's design, that they didn't feel the need to change puzzles, dungeon layouts, script, etc. Other than graphics, music, and the (imo) underwhelming "Zelda-maker" lite dungeon creation stuff, it's basically the same game, so you'll probably have the same issues with it when you get to it, Kzinssie...
In any case, fwiw, I don't think the Zelda series got good until the 90s lol. I have never been able to get into either NES game, and would rather play Crystalis anyway even if I could get into them. They're clunky and unfun to me, and since I wasn't there on day 1 when they first came out, I find them very difficult to go back to, not having any nostalgia for them.
In any case, fwiw, I don't think the Zelda series got good until the 90s lol. I have never been able to get into either NES game, and would rather play Crystalis anyway even if I could get into them. They're clunky and unfun to me, and since I wasn't there on day 1 when they first came out, I find them very difficult to go back to, not having any nostalgia for them.
I could make a long, off-topic discussion of the best games on the platform, but that's probably best saved for a different thread. I will note that Rolan's Curse 2 is probably the best "Zelda-like" game on the system, and it wasn't made by Nintendo. I did a Let's Play of it.
Yeah, as someone who was there for LttP on its original release and loved the hell out of it but missed out on LA, I'm definitely curious about the Switch version, but I haven't quite gotten around to picking it up yet. Still need to get back to my barely-started BotW game for one thing...
But I've always loved LA's music and it looks like just the most charming thing from snippets I've seen, so playing through with an actual decent control scheme seems quite attractive.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
LINK'S AWAKENING (1993): FACE SHRINE
First off, I finished the trading quest, and boy does having a ridiculously overpowered weapon make the whole game more fun. It is extremely surreal playing a top-down Zelda where you don't use a sword primarily, though. I wonder what inspired them to make the boomerang so strong here? Anyway, this is where the terrible secret of Koholint is made clear, and that casts a pallor over the whole dungeon - I'll save my plot analysis for the end, but suffice to say, it's interesting just how this game's themes of letting go are carried through into just about every game in the series from here on. The music here is great and hypnotic as hell, and I think that's why I enjoyed this dungeon way more than the last few. The chess knight puzzles were completely incomprehensible, though - I still don't know what I actually did to solve them. Facade is a great boss, exactly the kind of thing you make the player fight right after learning that the entire game world is a dream. I might be turning around on this game? Maybe I just got past The Bad Part.
First off, I finished the trading quest, and boy does having a ridiculously overpowered weapon make the whole game more fun. It is extremely surreal playing a top-down Zelda where you don't use a sword primarily, though. I wonder what inspired them to make the boomerang so strong here? Anyway, this is where the terrible secret of Koholint is made clear, and that casts a pallor over the whole dungeon - I'll save my plot analysis for the end, but suffice to say, it's interesting just how this game's themes of letting go are carried through into just about every game in the series from here on. The music here is great and hypnotic as hell, and I think that's why I enjoyed this dungeon way more than the last few. The chess knight puzzles were completely incomprehensible, though - I still don't know what I actually did to solve them. Facade is a great boss, exactly the kind of thing you make the player fight right after learning that the entire game world is a dream. I might be turning around on this game? Maybe I just got past The Bad Part.
I love the quest to get the key to the Face Shrine, too - well, not so much the gameplay part of it which is "grind out almost 1,000 rupees to buy the bow & arrow (or steal it)," but lighting the torches in the little cave or ruins or whatever and reading the relief on the wall, with creepy music...
I always forget about the chess knight things, but I agree with you that they're incomprehensible. I've beaten the game dozens of times and I still don't know how they really work. They might just be entirely random, which would be dumb.
I always forget about the chess knight things, but I agree with you that they're incomprehensible. I've beaten the game dozens of times and I still don't know how they really work. They might just be entirely random, which would be dumb.
I was surprised you hadn't mentioned the bow grind, actually, yeah, so this makes sense - it's another one of my few complaints about the game, because I don't do what you do. I usually hop around with Roc's Feather on my way to wherever I'm going, which is fun and breezy right up until that sixth dungeon lol
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
I think this was changed in the remake but to make them land on their base you throw them so they go two blocks forward and one to the side; a knight's move. In the original, no idea.
4-So
Spicy
Pretty sure the Knight chess pieces worked in the original the same way in terms of movement. However, you just had to make them stand up after being tossed. I don't believe they had to land in the slots but it's been a while since I last played the GB version.
Edit:
Go to about 1:00 on this video to see how it was originally done. Just need to stand them upright.
Edit:
Go to about 1:00 on this video to see how it was originally done. Just need to stand them upright.
Kzinssie
(she/her)
LINK'S AWAKENING (1993): EAGLE'S TOWER
How the hell were you supposed to get into this dungeon without using a guide? Just a sequence of huge, arbitrary leaps to figure out how to get the rooster, let alone figure out a rooster would be needed or helpful. Anyway, after that and the first few confusing rooms of the dungeon itself I just pulled up a guide, which definitely seems like the best way to approach it. I do like how the fourth floor of the dungeon is basically a lie, at least. The real bad part of this dungeon, at least for me, was the boss - he's not too bad except for that fucking wind move, which requires good timing (that you aren't quite sure if you made until you wait for the move to play out) or a reset of the entire fight. I just thought the boss had a ton of health until I figured out what was going on.
How the hell were you supposed to get into this dungeon without using a guide? Just a sequence of huge, arbitrary leaps to figure out how to get the rooster, let alone figure out a rooster would be needed or helpful. Anyway, after that and the first few confusing rooms of the dungeon itself I just pulled up a guide, which definitely seems like the best way to approach it. I do like how the fourth floor of the dungeon is basically a lie, at least. The real bad part of this dungeon, at least for me, was the boss - he's not too bad except for that fucking wind move, which requires good timing (that you aren't quite sure if you made until you wait for the move to play out) or a reset of the entire fight. I just thought the boss had a ton of health until I figured out what was going on.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
I remember being stuck on that part, until I learned how to get the rooster, which was probably just "let's try everything, everywhere".
I do like the dungeon, though. Moving the ball around was an interesting and hard puzzle in itself, and that a whole floor gets destroyed is pretty cool.
I do like the dungeon, though. Moving the ball around was an interesting and hard puzzle in itself, and that a whole floor gets destroyed is pretty cool.