Demon's Souls

[Patrick]

Glad you’re enjoying it! It’s one of my all time favorites.

 

[Ludendorkk]

Watching the game being experienced through new eyes has been great

 

[Adrenaline]

I got the remake for Christmas. Now all I need is a PS5.

 

[Alixsar]

I'm playing the Remake and I'm not sure if it's THE GAME or THE REMAKE, but man. This game has far and away the highest percentage of "*eyeroll* this is bullshit, this sucks"-inducing moments in all of the Souls games. It's been too long since I played the OG, so I can't remember what that was like.

But there's so much dumb stuff! World tendency is annoying; yes I know it's Demon's whole thing, but it sucks and while I don't hate the Remake for leaving it in, it is such a momentually bad idea. Were the Manta Rays in world 4 always THAT accurate? And did they always do that much damage?! I remember them being annoying, but they are just...so monumentally annoying now.

It's such a weird game. Demon's Souls is so fucking weird compared to all the others. But then the level designs are crazy good?! It's crazy good, when it's not being stupid and annoying, which is always, but only sometimes. Uhhh. Ya know what I mean?

Like the Tower of Latria? Fantastic level. Second part? Beautiful, super well done. And then you've got the double header of the Maneater gargoyles (hello, I do next to no damage and am slow, but sometimes you just get knocked off the edge because the camera sucks in close quarters, also enjoy the respawning black phantom you fight on a narrow ass spiral staircase on the way back!!!!!) and Old Monk fights (I summoned myself into another person's game and just stunlocked them as they walked through the door...that shouldn't be allowed!!) and it's like...you ruined it! You just needed to stick the landing, and instead you pooped your pants! You were the best Soulsborne level of all time! YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, it looks fantastic. Some of the monster redesigns suck but whatever. Uh, and so long as no one is talking because HOOOOO BOY that's some uncanny valley right there. Teeth and mouths don't work like that, I think? Not sure, but I think.

Oh and Idk if this is Remake specific, but the camera is absolutely FUCKED in some of the narrow passageways the game has. Just...dear Lord, dear LORD

Also, and this is universally true and not up for debate: the music is substantially worse. The Nexus music is mixed weird so you can barely hear it, and it sounds terrible and gives off a totally different vibe? The old song proper doesn't start till several minutes into the track...and as I said months ago, they committed the cardinal sin of butchering Maiden Astraea's music. For this alone, the Remake is obviously trash garbage.

And the bosses are so easy! I remember Phalanx being this epic fight to the death where I was weaving in and out of all these spears and dodging frantically, and this time I kinda just stood still and threw bombs at it and it died. The boss of 4-1 I literally just shot to death while standing still. The Armor Spider I just stood next to him and dodge rolled twice. And of course there's the gimmick fights; Dragon Boy, Storm Boy, etc. ...these have always sucked IMO, and I'm glad they mostly don't exist anymore (obviously Bed of Chaos made it into Dark, but everyone agrees that shit sucks too). You really can't go home again.

So yeah, final verdict is a I-should've-replayed-Bloodborne-instead out of 10. I've kinda always said that people who liked Demon's the most make no sense to me, and I'm glad to verify that I was not misremembering anything and people like that DEFINITELY do not make sense to me. At the same time, it makes me appreciate Dark/BB etc. even more. They were so close to making a fantastic game with Demon's, and they were able to smooth out the rough edges. They easily could've messed that up, but they learned the right lessons, and thank goodness for that.

Also also, fuck the Remake's weird way of organizing the hints, and the variety of new "git gud" and/or "true gamer"-esque hint options that they added in. Get lost with this nonsense. This goes without saying, but still.

 

[Issun]

The reason the bosses are easy is probably because you've got 12 years and 5 more games of experience between you and the last time you played Demon's Souls.

As far as the music, I've listened to most of it and yeah, it's almost all a huge step down from the original.

 

[Fyonn]

As far as I know, mechanically, the remake is exactly the same as the original version. The navigable terrain is the same, even the start up and recovery frames are the same on the attacks, it's just the animations are better.

 

[estragon]

The navigable terrain is the same, even the start up and recovery frames are the same on the attacks, it's just the animations are better.

I think the mechanics being the same but running at 60fps should make it somewhat easier in practice, although a lot of the difficulty changed here is probably just experience with Fromsoft games, yeah. I replayed the PS3 Demon's Souls last year and the Phalanx really is just a boss where you lazily throw bombs and it and it dies, if you know what you're doing. I also remembered being totally freaked out the first time I encountered it, but that was just me not understanding what was going on. (The easy bosses aren't really a negative for me. I've only played Demons' Souls on PS3 and Dark Souls on Switch, and I definitely prefer Demons'. I just like the atmosphere and the Mega Man style stage selection so much better...)

 

[Oathbreaker]

I've kinda always said that people who liked Demon's the most make no sense to me, and I'm glad to verify that I was not misremembering anything and people like that DEFINITELY do not make sense to me.

I probably don't think it's THE BEST of them, Bloodborne and Dark 3 are just too much farther ahead with better design sensibility all around. But damn if I don't still love everything about how it feels to play it, to the point that because chances are slim that I'll manage to get my hands on a PS5 I went ahead and replayed the original and still loved everything about it (except the Crystal Lizards, which apparently and very thankfully the Remake fixed). Weird stuff like the cracked Beast Talisman and the original clunky as hell Ultra Greatsword moveset are just fun as hell to mess with. And Ostrava! I wish more of the games that came after let NPCs on their quests just go exploring through the levels a bit, come what may from it. Each game besides Dark 2 had something approaching that, but it's always an NPC charging in for just one fight and then they're done one way or the other.

After clearing out just about everything before Allant I also realized that the biggest bummer of the Remake for me aside from Astraea's music is actually the loss of the storage duplication glitch. I don't like grinding levels in these games, especially in Demon's and Dark where NG+ separates people (Dark 2 eventually patched it to stop doing that but I don't know if Dark 3 or Bloodborne kept that change, not that it matters for Bloodborne considering how broken its matchmaking is to begin with). In just about every game getting to the community-favorite level for PvP it requires a fair bit of that grind even after basically beating the game (and even after farming for a Pure Bladestone) and I just don't have the patience anymore.

I don't think I ever appreciated the first Dark Souls quite as much as a lot of people did but having started a new playthrough and lucking out on the Fang Boar Helmet in the Undead Parish it's starting to grow on me a little more. I played the Dex/Pyro PvP combo to death way back so now I'm finally trying out things like the Partizan and Lucerne.

 

[Paul le Fou]

I don't think I ever appreciated the first Dark Souls quite as much as a lot of people did but having started a new playthrough and lucking out on the Fang Boar Helmet in the Undead Parish it's starting to grow on me a little more. I played the Dex/Pyro PvP combo to death way back so now I'm finally trying out things like the Partizan and Lucerne.

Ooh, is there a DS1 thread on the new forum yet? O:

 

[4-So]

I picked up Demon's when I got my PS5 and stopped at the spider boss. I have no attachment to the original (having never played it), so as far as I'm concerned the remake is the entire experience. Gorgeous game, amazing music, but I just wasn't in the mood for a Souls game. I intend to come back to it eventually, maybe try a different build.

 

[Alixsar]

I probably don't think it's THE BEST of them, Bloodborne and Dark 3 are just too much farther ahead with better design sensibility all around. But damn if I don't still love everything about how it feels to play it, to the point that because chances are slim that I'll manage to get my hands on a PS5 I went ahead and replayed the original and still loved everything about it (except the Crystal Lizards, which apparently and very thankfully the Remake fixed). Weird stuff like the cracked Beast Talisman and the original clunky as hell Ultra Greatsword moveset are just fun as hell to mess with. And Ostrava! I wish more of the games that came after let NPCs on their quests just go exploring through the levels a bit, come what may from it. Each game besides Dark 2 had something approaching that, but it's always an NPC charging in for just one fight and then they're done one way or the other.

After clearing out just about everything before Allant I also realized that the biggest bummer of the Remake for me aside from Astraea's music is actually the loss of the storage duplication glitch. I don't like grinding levels in these games, especially in Demon's and Dark where NG+ separates people (Dark 2 eventually patched it to stop doing that but I don't know if Dark 3 or Bloodborne kept that change, not that it matters for Bloodborne considering how broken its matchmaking is to begin with). In just about every game getting to the community-favorite level for PvP it requires a fair bit of that grind even after basically beating the game (and even after farming for a Pure Bladestone) and I just don't have the patience anymore.

I don't think I ever appreciated the first Dark Souls quite as much as a lot of people did but having started a new playthrough and lucking out on the Fang Boar Helmet in the Undead Parish it's starting to grow on me a little more. I played the Dex/Pyro PvP combo to death way back so now I'm finally trying out things like the Partizan and Lucerne.

In the original, I had a crystal lizard run off a cliff and die and I permanently couldn't get the items. In the Remake...the exact same thing happened to the exact same one in the exact same place. So, uh, whatever they "fixed" I sure as Hell didn't see it!

Re: bosses being easy. So, I played Demon's in 2011 and bounced off of it, and then picked up my save again in 2014 after Dark 1 and 2. 2011 Alex thought it was hard, 2014 Alex thought they were as easy as 2021 Alex does. They've always been like that; but the sheer...boredom? I guess? Of them surprised me. I figured it was gonna be easy, and I expected it to be easy, and I went through the fog gate expecting it to be easy, and I was STILL surprised by nearly every boss. Like I said, I beat two bosses by standing still and throwing stuff at them. I beat a miniboss by standing still and shooting him with arrows. He just didn't move! He just stood there! I know he CAN move because I came up on him from a different path and he sat on me (he's a big fat demon). But he just...didn't, he just stood still! Wild shit, completely wild.

Meanwhile I died like 9000 times to Sniper Manta Ray Wolf because they make next to no noise when they shoot and I'm fighting wheel skeletons and oh hey here comes a crystal now, barely made it now I'm in a cave with endlessly spawning dudes (another Souls trope I hate) and I gotta find the wizards but the shadows them summon all have one hit kill lasers AND there's invisible dudes fuckkkkkkk thisssssssss ughhhhhhhhhh

The reason the bosses are easy is probably because you've got 12 years and 5 more games of experience between you and the last time you played Demon's Souls.

As far as the music, I've listened to most of it and yeah, it's almost all a huge step down from the original.

There really is no excuse for what they did to Maiden Astraea. It's so bad, so fundamentally wrong and missing the point. It's embarrassing! I am embarrassed for them.

Most of the music is either outright bad or reworked in a way that makes it more "epic" but also more generic and boring in the process. It's a shame.

 

[Oathbreaker]

In the original, I had a crystal lizard run off a cliff and die and I permanently couldn't get the items. In the Remake...the exact same thing happened to the exact same one in the exact same place. So, uh, whatever they "fixed" I sure as Hell didn't see it!

Maybe only partially fixed then? If they get away it no longer reduces the lizard count for that spawn, but they changed how they respawn in that you have to archstone out or die, reloading the save doesn't work. I guess if it runs off a cliff that still kills it and counts?

 

[YangusKhan]

I think even if they run off a cliff and die it still doesn't reduce their spawn count.

 

[Alixsar]

Well he didn't respawn cuz I went back there to check after resetting, and the item didn't drop, so maybe I'm just "lucky"

 

[madhair60]

I'm playing this rn, spoilers, it's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. I never got super far into Demon's Souls but I just killed the Tower Knight, I adore that battle. Also now in the second area, Smithing Town or whatever it's called, Island of Smith. Smith Dome. Activated the elevators and I'll go after the spider chap tomorrow or something. Killing that spider is the furthest I ever got bar a brief sojourn into the tower of latria on PS3, so it's all gonna be fresh from them.

I'd like to know what's the Deal with the gate to the left of the start down the small set of steps at the beginning of Boletaria. I couldn't find how to open it.

 

[Patrick]

There’s a way in from the top. Here’s a map of the whole area.

 

[Regulus]

I'd like to know what's the Deal with the gate to the left of the start down the small set of steps at the beginning of Boletaria. I couldn't find how to open it.

Unless they changed things for the remake, that gate opens automatically at very high or very low world tendency. It's... esoteric.

 

[Patrick]

Oh yeah, the one down the steps. Yeah, it’s world tendency based & doesn’t have a ton behind it.

 

[Ludendorkk]

Definitely a cool area though

 

[4-So]

There is an enemy in there that can hurt you pretty bad if you aren't ready for it.

In any case, I came back to this with a mage build focus and I'm now further in the game that I've ever been. 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 3-1, 4-1, and 5-1 are handled. I'm now at a point where I don't know where to go or how to progress other than to putz around. I did try 3-3 and I either need to up my parry game or dump some more points in Magic (which is already at 30) because Red Knights keep killing me.

 

[4-So]

I think I'm almost at the end of this. The only worlds left to complete are 1-3, that archstone boss, and whatever else the game has in store at the end. All of the other stones are down, with the Ritual Path (4-2) being probably the most brutal stretch of the game I've encountered thus far. Looking forward to finishing this tomorrow or Friday.

 

[4-So]

Finished this last night!

The fight with Penetrator ended up being a one-shot; I didn't know I would have help from the NPC. Old Golden Boy just tanked the boss while I nuked it. Allant, on the other hand, kinda sucked until I remembered a general truth about bosses in Souls games which is "get close". With the Monk's Headwraps, Kris, and Ring of Magical Sharpness, he went down fairly easily once I understood the fight. I think the biggest problem was execution: accidentally rolling the wrong direction, moving too far away, etc. I also found the run back to be tedious but by the end I was just running straight to him instead of fighting with the trash mobs on the way.

Immediately went into NG+ and putzed around a bit before starting a new character with the intention of a STR build. (I might take a break, though. I have Nioh Collection and haven't cracked the cellophane, and I also want to run through RE7 before RE8 next month. I'm also reminded that I never finished Bloodborne or Sekiro, so I wonder if my time might be better spent there than an immediate replay.)

I think I might prefer Demon's Souls to the Dark Souls games, although both have highs and lows in terms of what tickles my fancies.

In any case, great game.

 

[Alixsar]

The more I chip away at this, the more I am convinced that

1) it's far and away my least favorite Souls game; it used to be a tie but now Demon's is the clear "winner" of the race to the bottom
2) I know I keep saying it, but I will never ever ever understand how this one can be anyone's favorite
3) WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO THE MUSIC YOU FOOLS

Like, this remake is gradually making me shift the needle from "I dunno it's cool but weird and not my favorite" to "I fucking hate this". Also, since my last post I beat TWO MORE bosses by standing still and throwing items/spells at them. Well, okay...1 and a half. Penetrator I had to relocate a few times, but I still never used my sword and stood still the majority of the time. This game is wild. It's so insane, so crazy and batshit. It's got such phenomal level design, and such STUPID and dumb shit in those levels that makes it just...so extremely unpalatable. It's like...fuckin' Alex-Repellant. They hermetically sealed this shit so Alexes couldn't get in. It's guaranteed to repell Alex for 90 days or your money back! CALL NOW

I think the weirdest thing of all is having started it in 2011, gone back to it in 2014 post Dark 1 and 2, and then playing it now...the parts that I find frustrating and/or annoying have been different each time and for different reasons. It's the game that keeps on giving. Far and away though, compared to all other From Software Soulsborne action games, this remake has had me go "pfffttt fuck offffff" and turn the game off the absolute highest number of times. Like, it's not even close. Congratulations Blue Point. You have done it.

I think I said this before too, but having replayed Dark 1 a few months ago, playing this makes me all the happier that Dark turned out as good as it did. IMO they learned all the right lessons and made a game that is way more my style. And then they took that and made Bloodborne, which is EVEN MORE up my alley. I feel so blessed. Playing this is like a view into an alternate dimension where the Souls games stayed truer to Demon's and then a new one dropped on PS5...a true nightmare for me, but a dream come true for others.

 

[keele864]

Beat the first boss with nearly 8K souls ready to use. Got lost looking for Monumental. Fell and landed in awkward place. Could not get back up. Leapt to death. Bloodstain appears on narrow ledge. I attempt to get it. I fall. I die. I love this game.

 

[keele864]

Wow, the Tower of Latria's Lovecraftian dudes are THE WORST. Stunlock and decent chance of two-shot kills. Granted the Thief Ring helps, but not looking forward to running through a mess of them to get to whatever boss is at the end of this. A few more shortcuts wouldn't have killed From, would they? Have freed Freke and learned some magic, but no luck finding a key for Rydell yet.

Did a classic Souls controlled falling sequence in the mines and found myself facing Flamelurker. He seems a bit tougher than the spider dude, since spider dude's arena has a corner where fireballs can't reach and you can shoot him with arrows.

Haven't tried the latter two Nexus Archstones yet; figure I'll try and make linear progress in the first few areas before going on to the later ones.

I still have no idea how Tendencies are created or changed. I really wish more Archstones were present: That they only spawn after bosses is a pain. Granted, most bosses (Spider, Phalanx, and Tower Knight) I've beaten on my second try, so there's been nothing nearly as challenging as I expect from a Souls game.

 

[Fyonn]

World tendency: Living people (including you in human form) have to die there to reduce World Tendency, and kill Black Phantoms (including invaders) or bosses to increase World Tendency.
Character tendency: Kill innocent people or living players (via invasion) to lower Character Tendency, kill Black Phantoms (including invaders) to raise Character Tendency. High Tendency characters have more HP in Soul Form, and low Tendency characters have more attack power in Soul Form.

I 100% believe that the biggest hurdle to understanding Tendency beyond poor UI for the sake of pointless vagueness is that Tendency is a bad name for it. Call it Purity or Soul Corruption or something and it instantly becomes more comprehensible. Long story short: it's bad when people die and good when demons die.

 

[Ludendorkk]

Honestly just read this wiki entry if you want to understand it fully, it's complicated.

If you are playing the PS3 version (on real hardware or emulated), you can use the private fan server the Archstones to set World Tendency to Pure Black, Pure White, or neutral at-will

 

[spines]

fromsoft's bizarre adventure: world tendency

 

[keele864]

Well, I got to the boss of 5-1. He looked really fearsome, but right near the beginning of the arena there was a ledge with a player message reading "Try arrow." I took out my bow and tried arrow. The boss's attacks didn't hit me, the arrows did good damage, and I beat the Leechmonger on my first try without taking damage.

Cheap? Yes. But honestly I didn't want to try something brave and stupid and have to run through 5-1 again.

Also took down Flamelurker; now trying to figure out the boss of 3-1.

 

[keele864]

Well, the first line of the wiki for the 3-1 boss told me what I was missing. Not sure I would have figured that out on my own — apparently my being insufficiently bloodthirsty is an issue!