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Bloodstained: The Dracula-Style Monster Castle Game
I think this gets at why I felt the way I did, but I also don't personally have any bias for or against Inti Creates simply because they aren't a developer I attach meaning to in a general sense (I even kind of forgot they were the developers of Curse). But now that there's been discussion about specifics, I think for me the boss behaviors are a big part of the difference of being "like a Classicvania" or not.
So what would be the better silly nickname for Bloodless Mode?
Bloodlessstained
or
stained
Bloodlessstained
or
stained
Tomm Guycot
(he/him)
**exhales for the first time in 2020**
(not in a drug way)
(not in a drug way)
Are you the good kind of tired?
Tomm Guycot
(he/him)
Hey; update on the Switch version.
Hmm...
Hmm...
By your logic Ninja Gaiden is a Vania
I find it to be a very lazy criticism, but that is definitely a criticism that people levy at Ninja Gaiden. (I've seen it literally in the past year-and-a-half. "Ninja Gaiden is just Castlevania with a ninja!")
Tomm Guycot
(he/him)
It is in fact, a Fastlevania
Man, I wish. I made another attempt to enjoy Ninja Gaiden recently, and it doesn't feel a thing like Castlevania (nor does Curse of the Moon feel a thing like Ninja Gaiden).
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
Well, they were clearly drawing inspiration from Castlevania, but I like Tomm's description as a "Fastlevania". It moves much, much more quickly, and it fundamentally changes how the game feels despite having several of the hallmarks of Castlevania. It's much more concerned with level flow - once you get the patterns down you can just fly through areas.
They do have a number of similarities (I mean, you cut down candle stand-ins to get power-ups and the energy to use them) but there's definitely a different flow to things. Ryu is faster and more mobile but with a smaller attack hitbox and enemy placement is a lot meaner.
FWIW, I enjoy going back to all three 8-bit Ninjas Gaiden much more than 2/3 of the 8-bit Castles Vania.
Tomm Guycot
(he/him)
They have very clearly inspired similarities - same methods of stage progression, obviously the same hud. "Whip candles to get hearts and subweapons" is identical. And that seems common enough but back then it really wasn't.
They both have fixed height jumps, requiring very deliberate decisions about your mobility.
Castlevania's RPG-lite ambitions were pretty clear early on, with breakable wall secrets and the treasures that rise out of the ground. But Simon was also very slow especially on stairs, requiring you to deal with enemies that feel more capable than you. There were also multi-hit enemies which would stop you in place while other threats closed the distance.
Gaiden's sights were on fast action cinematic adventure, with its famous plot scenes and faster gameplay. The sword has no delay, instead of stairs Ryu kicks himself upward, subweapons are stronger but cost more to use (everything but the Watch costs 1 MP in Vania, while most of Gaiden's weapons hover around 5), and Ryu's foes are made of paper, most requiring a single hit so you don't have to stop moving.
But the gameplay (maneuver my very specifically designed man across this room while avoiding these many fast threats) and options available (forward attack, subweapons) are the same at their core. And again, back then unique enough that they are clearly "the same". There are for more "Devil May Cry-alikes" than there are OG Vania-likes for example. (Chosen specifically because both Vania and Gaiden would go that route in 3D)
Fastlevania
To put a different way, OG Vania and Ninja Gaiden share much more in common than SotN and Metroid do.
(EDIT: Sorry but "break down these two similar games to compare their parts" is where I've been for two years so it's fascinating to me. For example, I'd say that Simon's Quest and Blaster Master were "very similar" in what they're doing - but look how far apart they are in specifics. Not at all like Vania/Gaiden)
They both have fixed height jumps, requiring very deliberate decisions about your mobility.
Castlevania's RPG-lite ambitions were pretty clear early on, with breakable wall secrets and the treasures that rise out of the ground. But Simon was also very slow especially on stairs, requiring you to deal with enemies that feel more capable than you. There were also multi-hit enemies which would stop you in place while other threats closed the distance.
Gaiden's sights were on fast action cinematic adventure, with its famous plot scenes and faster gameplay. The sword has no delay, instead of stairs Ryu kicks himself upward, subweapons are stronger but cost more to use (everything but the Watch costs 1 MP in Vania, while most of Gaiden's weapons hover around 5), and Ryu's foes are made of paper, most requiring a single hit so you don't have to stop moving.
But the gameplay (maneuver my very specifically designed man across this room while avoiding these many fast threats) and options available (forward attack, subweapons) are the same at their core. And again, back then unique enough that they are clearly "the same". There are for more "Devil May Cry-alikes" than there are OG Vania-likes for example. (Chosen specifically because both Vania and Gaiden would go that route in 3D)
Fastlevania
To put a different way, OG Vania and Ninja Gaiden share much more in common than SotN and Metroid do.
(EDIT: Sorry but "break down these two similar games to compare their parts" is where I've been for two years so it's fascinating to me. For example, I'd say that Simon's Quest and Blaster Master were "very similar" in what they're doing - but look how far apart they are in specifics. Not at all like Vania/Gaiden)
And then there's Ghosts 'N Goblins. While I'm sure as heck not gonna call Castlevania a GnG ripoff, looking at the shared ground I get the feeling that GnG was a big inspiration for the Castlevania 1 team.
Stuff like the item window, hidden treasures, and fixed jump were in GnG first. And then you have like 80% of Simon's sub-weapons basically made up of Sir Arthur's alternate weapons: A knife that flies forward, an axe that arcs upward, a thing that lights the ground on fire, and a cross.
Granted, the cross was turned into a shield in the international release of GnG and just has a limited range instead of CV1's boomerang functionality, but it's unlikely it's just some crazy coincidence.
And of course there's the whole hero fighting hordes of demons and undead thing but both games give a very different flavor to that.
Stuff like the item window, hidden treasures, and fixed jump were in GnG first. And then you have like 80% of Simon's sub-weapons basically made up of Sir Arthur's alternate weapons: A knife that flies forward, an axe that arcs upward, a thing that lights the ground on fire, and a cross.
Granted, the cross was turned into a shield in the international release of GnG and just has a limited range instead of CV1's boomerang functionality, but it's unlikely it's just some crazy coincidence.
And of course there's the whole hero fighting hordes of demons and undead thing but both games give a very different flavor to that.
And didn't Ninja Gaiden 3 add an item that powers up your main weapon?
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
I mean, that's totally valid, though. I never linked the two for years and years. Just some small changes make them feel wholly unlike each other, despite those shared mechanics.
Tomm Guycot
(he/him)
Rather than trying to poorly explain, I thought I'd wait for visual aids.
Neat! Were you involved in the design for this mode at all?
Tomm Guycot
(he/him)
Yes, I'm the Director for all the Stretch Goals, and Classic Mode is my baby.
I designed two of the stages myself (incl. everything shown in this footage, coincidentally)
It's how I've survived quarantine. Please enjoy.
Okay, THAT is Castlevania all right
Tomm Guycot
(he/him)
Yes and yes