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A Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy: The Star Wars Thread

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
The mask thing is so very annoying because, since no protagonist wears a mask and no droid or non-human character can take the lead, Disney has opted to make the friggin' First Order and its genocidal Darth Vader wannabe into the mascots of the franchise.

Because there's nothing that represents Star Wars better to kids and families, nor is there a better character to turn into plush dolls and bedsheets and towels, than a literal fascist empire and the screaming manchild at the top.



Yup, just a family-friendly Riefenstahl set piece


I doubt I could pick L3-37 out of a crowd but didn't her brain get dumped into the Falcon? You need L3-37 back, you just dump it back into a different droid.
I'd rather have her regain sentience as the Falcon, then lead a crusade to liberate all spaceships everywhere from the yoke of smelly hominids.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad

Star Wars SC38 reimagined is a terrible, terrible thing. It's technically impressive, but doesn't fit in any Star Wars film, least of all Episode 4. I would absolutely hate any Star Wars film that thought stuff like this is cool.

I bring this up purely because some Star Wars fans I know think it's an improvement over the clunky fight in the original, and not an abomination. And technically it's neat.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Technically it's impressive. As a scene, it's very more is less.
Yeah, I think it inadvertently makes the case for the original scene. Obi-wan and Vader are only main characters in the context of the greater sextet. They're secondary characters in A New Hope and this would completely suck the oxygen out of the rest of the film.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
And it just plain wouldn't fit with the original style of filming or the general aesthetic. NONE of the other action scenes are filmed or choreographed anything like this.

It'd be like dropping a bunch of CGI effects into various areas of the film. Which would be nuts.
 

Purple

(She/Her)
The mask thing is so very annoying because, since no protagonist wears a mask and no droid or non-human character can take the lead, Disney has opted to make the friggin' First Order and its genocidal Darth Vader wannabe into the mascots of the franchise.
Hell, didn't they even have a period where they were using "choose your side!" as a tagline for toys and stuff?
 

Paul le Fou

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(He)
Agreed for all the above criticisms of the lightsaber re-do. It definitely fits the Prequel aesthetics of lightsaber fighting.

One thing I'll say for that, though, is that it would make some continuity sense to have them fight like the re-do, since we've been shown both of those characters fighting almost exclusively with crazy flips and bullshit and then at their long-awaited reunion showdown they're suddenly very slow and kind of awkward. I know one of the cartoons - Rebels? I think? - writes in a scene where Obi-Wan changes his fighting style, but talk about your forced ad-hoc story beats for the sake of connecting two disparate things (even if it was handled very well in the scene in question). And it doesn't explain Vader, anyway.

But it's not like the prequels creating massive continuity errors and fuckery for the OT is remotely unusual, and this isn't even in the top 10 most nonsensical offenders, so, ehhhhhh
 

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
Has there been fight scenes showing Vader doing flips and shit in his metal suit though? All I can think of is Rogue One but IIRC he didn't do any acrobatic stuff there (he didn't have to).
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
It's not that, it's the camera movement and direction. Star Wars has very static shots, generally. The new films add stuff like occasional slow motion, but they're still fairly conservative.
 

Egarwaen

(He/Him)
Star Wars: Rebels is fucking fantastic. It has a very small target, and manages to land a hit with style and aplomb. Whether you're actually invested in Star Wars or enjoy fun space-fantasy shenanigans, it's well worth a watch.

Side stories are always hard to pull off, especially in something like Star Wars, where one of the main features of the primary material is how grand and sweeping its story is. A New Hope opens with Rebel starships having just won their first victory, proceeds through the Empire discovering the main rebel base and the rebellion confirming the existence of the Death Star, and ends with the rebels defending their base and Luke hinting at the rebirth of the Jedi Order. A side story in the same era can't do any of those things without stepping on ANH's toes, but it also can't have nothing to do with them or it feels out of place... And Rebels successfully resolves that paradox.

Kanan and Ezra are the perfect way to have Jedi in a Rebellion-era story without it being a story about the rebirth of the Jedi Order... Or the failure to do that. Kanan and Ezra are both scarred orphans; Kanan's not even sure he can teach Ezra to be a Jedi, much less that he wants to. His confrontations with Sith Lords end in disaster. And Ezra winds up being a different kind of Force foundling from Luke. No possible way for this boy to restore the Jedi Order. He's more what the Jedi feared, what led them to take children from their homes for training. Ezra isn't just impulsive and ungovernable, he's wild and primal. He's got a special Force rapport with beasts, and while it often scares him, he frequently draws on it all the same.

Hera's cell's trials give a basis for the action of ANH. At its best, Phoenix Squadron only ever manages to establish a tenuous base, with a handful of ships and a small fighter squadron. Their A-Wings are tolerable recon and raiders, but practically helpless against mainline Imperial Fleet ships. The Ghost, a single converted freighter, is their best combat asset. Fuel is short, safe travel nonexistent, any kind of success met with immense reprisal... And joining up with Dondonna and Mon Mothma doesn't make things better, as their galaxy-spanning agenda is a poor fit for the direct action and local concerns of Phoenix Squadron. The show wisely holds out on X-Wings until the very end, and seeing Hera hold her own against a cutting-edge Imperial prototype in one is cathartic and really sells the capabilities of the Alliance's signature hardware. Yavin base is bigger than anything Phoenix Squadron ever pulled together, so it's discovery and the equally outsized firepower the Empire musters against it fits as an escalation from the "early rebellion" stories here.

Rebels weaves its themes tightly throughout its run. The consequences of war are inescapable; even sixteen years later, the Clone Wars loom large in everyone's memories. The Rebels don't always win, and even when they do it's seldom without a cost. Family would seem to be one of the most trite Star Wars themes, but it works here. Apart from the tenuous "found family" of the Ghost's crew there isn't a single intact family in the show, and their dysfunction is a frequent plot driver. And even among the Ghost's crew, Kanan and Hera's exact feelings are left ambiguous until almost the very end. Sabine's disaster of a Mandalorian family is particularly delightful, both in its own right and going against the stoic loner image of Boba Fett.

Rebels, of course, doesn't only relate to the original trilogy, but to its contemporaries. Rogue One gets some smooth tie ins; we see some V-Wings and troop gunships, and Saw Gererra is featured in several episodes, including an actual explanation of who he is that Rogue One itself mostly forgot. In fact, his appearance is the closest the show ever gets to the Death Star, and that isn't especially close. Saw's obsession with finding the empire's super-weapon is shown as something of an impractical quest, one that sets him against insurmountable opposition and means he passes on opportunities for more immediate good.

Rebels' relation to Solo is... More fraught. Maul is an antagonist throughout the second and third seasons, ultimately falling to Obi-wan on Tatooine in mid season 3, aired in late 2016. By the time Solo hit theaters in 2018, with the twist finale reveal of Maul's survival as a galactic crime lord, he's not only long since abandoned that role, he's been dead for nearly two years. Disney had made a big deal about how the they wanted a single unified canon, without the confusing levels or rewrites of the old EU... So to me, their handling of Maul really shows how little actual planning they've done.

Finally, a number of the late series elements suggested a strange relation to me. In the early 90s, just as the EU was kicking off, a trilogy of serial-numbers-filed-off Star Wars-alikes called the "Mageworlds" was published. They do a number of fun things with the formula and concepts, but saw little commercial success. One of their more original concepts was that the antagonist Mages were capable of traveling through hyperspace without a spaceship - that hyperspace was, in fact, a mystical dimension linking many times and places that hyperdrives transited in the most limited, pedestrian manner. Rebels, oddly, uses this exact concept in its final season, with a story arc involving "the world between worlds" and Force-connected beasts that explicitly "walk" paths through hyperspace. I'd be shocked if any of the writers intentionally drew from such an obscure relation, but... The parallels in imagery and narrative are strong?
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Rebels IS fantastic.

There are quite a few years in between Solo and the start of Rebels so I don't have a big problem with Maul's change in status. He doesn't show up until the end of S2, which is about three years before ANH and so ten years after Solo; lots of time in between for Maul to be sent packing from his crime lord position for whatever reason, but also lots of room to tell tales from before he left. And honestly, Rebels is fairly niche; most people who watched Solo probably hadn't seen it.
 
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Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
Yeah Rebels takes place years after Solo so it's fine that Maul it's dead, but having him pop up as the head of a crime syndicate doesn't really have much to do with his long arc across Clone Wars and Rebels.
 

Egarwaen

(He/Him)
To be clear:
I understand the continuity order of Solo and Rebels. My problem is with the production decision to make the "big twist" at the end of Solo... Part of an arc that was long-finished and done with. Dedicated fans aren't going to take anything away from it. Casual fans are just going to scratch their heads and be confused. So why bother?
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
Honestly, Solo's production was such a mess I think it was a toss-in to hook interest for a sequel. Who's the leader of this crime org that people will recognize? OOOOH DARTH MAUL is a pretty easy thing to toss in there, and has the chance of goosing interest in ancillary material for those who haven't followed the non-movie stuff.
 

Egarwaen

(He/Him)
Yeah but that's also obviously not going to work. Anyone who hasn't followed the non-movie stuff has no pointers to the non-movie stuff to resolve their confusion. And anyone who has followed the non-movie stuff knows that whether or not its a toss-in to hook interest for a sequel, he's still going to wind up getting Obi-wan'd because of Disney's One Canon policy. Instead it just comes off as more of Disney's "we don't need planning we're a multi-billion dollar franchise" approach to Star Wars.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
With everything that has happened to him, been done to him, and the heights and depths he accomplished all on his own, Maul was definitely cursed to live in interesting times.

Instead it just comes off as more of Disney's "we don't need planning we're a multi-billion dollar franchise" approach to Star Wars.
On the one hand, Empire and Jedi hardly resemble Lucas's original outline, and even with planning, and a goal set in stone, the PT still fudged the execution.

OTOH, yeah, not having at least a vague idea of where they wanted the characters to go, and how the plot should get them there, is the ST's cardinal sin, but it was only the end result of a franchise-wide issue at Disney. They do have some people like Dave Filoni deftly ruling over their particular fiefdoms, but the kingdom as a whole is fractured and driven more by focus groups than by narrative goals, like Feige's MCU was.

And now, with the ST actors burning their bridges with Disney to express their (justified) anger and discontent with how their characters were handled, it's hard to defend anything from the film part of the franchise.
 

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
dunna dun dunna dun dun dunnnn
dunna dunnn da dunna dun
dunna dun dunna dun dun DUNNNN
dunna DUNNN da dunna dun
bwah bwah
bwah bwah
bwah bwaaaaammm
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
If they'd given him the Rise Of Skywalker script, 20 minutes and a crayon we'd have got an infinitely better film
 
If they'd given him the Rise Of Skywalker script, 20 minutes and a crayon we'd have got an infinitely better film
Maybe I'm biased but I just find Star Wars works better for TV shows where it has more room to breath, so I'd see even those 20 minutes as a misuse of time.
 
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