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ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
Circle of the Moon is kind of slow, but it gets big points for first impressions. Holy SHIT! Look at this game! Listen to this game! It's got 16-bit polish and level design reminiscent of SOTN and a soundtrack to die for (unlike Harmony of Dissonance, which just sounded like something was dying). I wasn't used to a handheld game with this much razzle-dazzle and complexity... no wonder they call this system a Game Boy Advance!

I mean, now in the far-flung year of 2021, it's not so special, but you think of this and then you think of the launch Castlevania game on the DMG Game Boy, and the gap in quality is like a chasm.
 

MetManMas

Me and My Bestie
(He, him)
My opinions on each of the GBA and DS games in short-ish:

Circle: A solid launch game but movement is a li'l too stiff for my liking and it's way too easy to miss all the fun card combos if you're not using a FAQ and/or MAGICIAN mode.

Harmony: Juste is a lot more fun to move around with, I just wish the bosses had a li'l more bite and the level design was a li'l less claustrophobic and you had more than different spellbook/item combos for variety.

Aria: The closest you'll get to something like Symphony on the GBA. Lots of neat toys to play with but also a lot of rubbish to dig through.

Dawn: Way too "Like Aria but..."

Portrait: The toys are fun and it's nice to have a playable female co-protagonist but the game feels a lot more geared towards Jonathan's moveset than Charlotte's charged spells a lot of the time and the level designs and enemy patterns are both kinda disappointing.

Order: It can feel a li'l too cruel at times but I really like how the game streamlined the Aria system of Too Many Dang Souls into a handful of powers that mostly remain useful throughout. It's the one I most enjoyed combat in...when I wasn't dying, anyway.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
a soundtrack to die for (unlike Harmony of Dissonance, which just sounded like something was dying)

This is funny, because I used to think the same, while now Harmony's soundtrack is vying for series-best in the arbitrary rankings that intermingle in my head at whatever particular moment. I was fifteen and said the music sucked, because everyone around me said that it did--not to frame coming to appreciate a video game soundtrack as synonymous with personal maturation or an inevitable process all must undertake, but to underline how prevalent that take was and remains now as the common, taken-for-granted narrative, and how susceptible to it a young person lacking confidence in asserting themselves could be. Repeating it reflexively every time the game came up eventually turned it into an unassailable truth.

Even now, some who have moderately come in favour of it give a non-committal endorsement in arguing for the compositions' potential, as if the instrumentation sabotaged or nullified it in one fell swoop. It's reminiscent to me of the way comparative discourse has shaped itself in the medium, where the assumption of linear advancement and progress is always tied to the relative merits of any kind of art created within those contexts and constraints, and how Harmony's music is dismissed regularly because it doesn't sound like a game of that technological footprint is "supposed to" sound like, instead of meeting the music on its own terms (I also think whether the resulting instrumentation was Hokkai or other sound staff's "intent" or a practical developmental compromise is irrelevant to these assessments). The rhetoric is testified to in how "sound quality" is the first and often last mark the game is indicted for--the same kind of refusal to align with and accept digital sound synthesization like the FM sound of a Mega Drive as artistically valid as the sample-based alternatives that track as more "real" and legitimate in that kind of value judgement. If put in these reductive terms, Harmony in a sense has the best sound quality of its peers--the persistent audio fuzz prevalent in Circle and Aria doesn't exist in it, with every note played as clearly as can be.

You can't force people to like something, but it's not that my own change of opinion was externally imposed either; I just spent more time with the game and its music and came to love it unconditionally. It could happen... to you!
 

Ludendorkk

(he/him)
As someone who was already heavily into noise music as a teenager I always thought Dissonance was amazing. Also never understood the "sound quality" argument considering that most GBA soundtracks are made of samples compressed to within an inch of their life and this is regularly cited as one of the prime demerits of the entire system!
 

muteKi

Geno Cidecity
If put in these reductive terms, Harmony in a sense has the best sound quality of its peers--the persistent audio fuzz prevalent in Circle and Aria doesn't exist in it, with every note played as clearly as can be.

Adding on to this, there is a lot that Harmony does with its music that would have been nearly impossible with more elaborate samples. Harmony's music is dramatic and dynamic in a way that neither Circle nor Aria can replicate -- there are major changes in dynamics across every song, and while the lack of an obvious pop hook in the tracks compared to the way Circle (aided by reuse of many of the series' most popular tunes) and Dawn (with Masahiko Kimura directly citing the MJ-inspired arrangements for Dracula X he had a hand in) means the songs aren't particularly hummable, there's a sophisticated, dare I say proggy, approach to how the songs work. Any lack of timbral texture due to the small set of sounds the game uses are more than made up for by the way that rhythmic patterns phase in and out with each other, chords meander and return to key centers, and instruments fade in and out. There is much for the ear to latch on to here, and the songs do lend themselves well to the sorts of repeated listens that exploratory platformers of the Castlevania variety encourage through backtracking, grinding, and exploring each nook and cranny on the map.

I actually think the worst of the GBA soundtracks is Aria, and one of the reasons (along with a somewhat stilted translation for the story) that I don't muster the same level of enjoyment for the game that much of the rest of the internet does. It is a very impressive marvel and does a lot to bring the mechanical extravagance of SOTN to a much more limited system, but those same limitations make the way the game presents itself that much less engaging, and it is definitely in the music that I feel this the most. Unlike with Harmony, tracks are a lot less dynamic, and tend to drone. People in particular favor the Chapel music, but I find it exhausting to listen to with its unrelenting organ arpeggios; even in an idealized form free from limitations of mixing guided by CPU interrupts, the song feels like a shorter passage in a larger track that is about to resolve, but never does. Tracks keeping both a consistent level of harmonic tension and volume lends itself to a soundtrack that feels like it is constantly spinning its wheels in place. The only song that I think suits this kind of structure is the floating gardens; the basso ostinato and harmonic developments that never really resolve in traditional ways produce a track perfect for an area with confusing, nonlinear structure where it's not clear when the player is going where they want to be and could be getting closer or farther away from their goal of the next areas. Despite this, the track almost never shows up in larger soundtrack compilations.

If there is one criticism to lay at the hands of a sound design like this, it is that games with a more pop sensibility to their music tie in more strongly with the notion of the average videogame as a dance performed by a player's hands or fingers. Other games' tracks can be more or less suited to the inherent tempo of their stages. While Harmony's tracks all have fixed BPM, the way those beats get expressed as either more languid legato passages or more abrupt staccato breakdowns changes across every track, leading to very different feels that may or may not be immediately as consonant with the game's activity.

This is one thing that Aria does better than Harmony simply by virtue of the much simpler tracks. The argument is all but explicitly stated in the game itself, really. The Underground Reservoir and the Colosseum, as in SOTN, contrast with the former as a large area built around exploring and experimenting with abilities and transformations and the latter a compact area with layouts built to serve mainly as monster closets with a focus almost exclusively on combat. Here, though, their music shares a similar theme with both having variants, and those variants being designed explicitly to suit those areas. The former is an almost ambient piece that shares some unusual harmonic development that modulates at several places but has sections that build in intensity and eventually resolve themselves in a more satisfying way than the Chapel's music does; the song's loop going back to a basic string sweep and melodic percussion arpeggio and nothing else gives it a return to rest that makes it easier for one's attention; if the chapel is an unending angry rant covered in spittle, this track is a guided meditation. The Arena speeds up the melody's pace, does less modulation in-between phrases (there is only one modulation up a half-tone about halfway through the song), and uses chords much more common to the series. It is a faster song, easier to understand due to its reliance on those common chords, and does not wander anywhere near as much; its repetitive break strains mirror the somewhat grindy nature of the combat segments the area holds.
 
The Battle Arena area of Circle of the Moon is interesting to me. In a series of games where it's normally not hard to get 100% map completion, it definitively locks away part of the map (and some items). The only way to get that portion of your map filled in is to be good enough to beat the Arena, there's no cheesing it or coming in a back way. You can accumulate a bunch of items and other stuff to try and survive, but no matter what you're going to have to beat the Arena to get its prizes. Haven't really seen that sort of thing in many of the subsequent games.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
Order of Ecclesia has a somewhat similar area - it's just that map completion isn't really tracked in Order. Circle's Arena is also quite a bit harder.

But the really galling thing about the Arena is that it holds two of the cards as random drops from very high-end monsters. I forget if you can redo those rooms without redoing the entire gauntlet.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
Errgh. Harmony of Dissonance seemed fittingly named the last time I played it... it just sounds so 8-bit. Maybe I'd have a better appreciation for it after the chiptune renaissance of the 2010s. I do have the cartridge, kinda... it's that Konami double pack they also did for Yu-Gi-Oh!. I guess I could fire it up and see if the music has sweetened with age.

You know what, though? I don't mind the slightly fuzzy sound sampling in Game Boy Advance games. Keep in mind that I spent my teen years with a Sega Genesis... I must have been slightly immunized from rough, scratchy samples, and what you hear on the GBA is nowhere near as bad as the voice in most Genesis games. When I made a Game Boy Advance version of GORF, I relied exclusively on the two sound sample channels, because you could import WAV files with ease in Dragon BASIC, and I had no friggin' idea what to do with the Game Boy Color sound channels. It's a lot easier to tell a computer, "Hey, play MarchoftheAstronauts.wav on repeat" than adjusting the pitch, volume, attack, and decay of four 8-bit sound channels on a frame by frame basis. You get better results, too.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Well, I mean... Harmony leaned on the GB hardware for sound, so yeah, it definitely sounds 8-bit.

Hello there, this is Hokkai. I created all the music and sound for Harmony of Dissonance. First of all, I feel I should apologize to those who were disappointed. As you know, the songs in Harmony were primarily composed with the Game Boy’s PSG sound chip. In order to create a Symphony of the Night-level game on a more limited handheld platform, we had to impose some limitations on the music, and opted for PSG sound.

Moreover, as you may also know, owing to certain aspects of the GBA hardware, it is difficult to modulate the volume of PSG sounds. Nevertheless, I stubbornly persisted in trying to create rich, dynamic compositions. And in terms of the songs themselves, I did my best to return to that old progressive style of video game music. What do you think?


I definitely think it does some interesting things in the composition. It's almost VRC6-like, although honestly the VRC6 was a bit smoother. That would be my ideal for a soundtrack of this nature. It's definitely a lot better than it gets credit for, but it also doesn't feel like it "matches" the rest of the game - I'm sure most expected something closer to SNES quality, not NES/GB.

I'd also note there's a penalty for using the GBA "sound chip", since it really isn't one at all - you gotta do it all with CPU grunt. He alludes to this in the first paragraph, and apparently they fixed it up for Aria, probably because they were more familiar with the hardware by then (and also heard all the complaints).
 
I beat Castlevania III for the first time using Grant. This is the hardest Castlevania game I've played. I don't think I could beat Castlevania III on NES. I used Castlevania Collection saves to get through the game.

I also played Bloodstained Curse of the Moon before playing this game. And I kept thinking, Curse of the Moon is a lot easier than Castlevania III. And then I had to remind myself that Curse of the Moon came out 30 years later.

I did enjoy Castlevania III. I like Grants ability to climb walls and skip sections of levels. I will probably replay this game at some point to try out Sypha and Alucard.

***
I was playing Ghosts n' Goblins Resurrection and Castlevania Collection simultaneously. The horror theme and emphasis on using different weapon types seem similar. Is Ghosts n' Goblins an influence Castlevania?
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
If you really want a challenge from Curse of the Moon, you need to go for a Zangetsu solo run and pass up on getting the helper powers. That gets quite difficult.

Castlevania III is indeed very difficult, and I'm honestly not sure there's quite as much exploitable stuff as in the original (Holy Water really takes the sting out of that game).
 

Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
If you really want a challenge from Curse of the Moon, you need to go for a Zangetsu solo run and pass up on getting the helper powers. That gets quite difficult.
And don't cheat by using Ultimate Mode.

On a related note - isn't Curse 2 supposed to be a lot harder?
 

muteKi

Geno Cidecity
Was this CV3 as in not the Japanese release? Because yeah that one is both a lot harder and they kinda fucked with Grant too much IMO
 
Was this CV3 as in not the Japanese release? Because yeah that one is both a lot harder and they kinda fucked with Grant too much IMO

I played CV3 on the Castlevania Collection. It had english text so I'm assuming it was the US version of CV3.

I'd put them at roughly the same level
I think for run 1 they are equivalent in difficulty. After you unlock the second run Curse of the Moon 2 gets insanely hard. I could beat all of Curse of the Moon 2 on normal difficulty. I couldn't get past the first level on the second run of normal difficulty.

I also played Curse of the Moon 2 coop with my sister. That was a lot of fun. If you have a local coop buddy to play with you, I highly recommend it.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
I was playing Ghosts n' Goblins Resurrection and Castlevania Collection simultaneously. The horror theme and emphasis on using different weapon types seem similar. Is Ghosts n' Goblins an influence Castlevania?

It feels like it kinda has to be in some ways, but I don't know that anyone at Konami has ever said as much.

I played CV3 on the Castlevania Collection. It had english text so I'm assuming it was the US version of CV3.

Yeah, that's the US version, then. I did a breakdown a few years ago of the differences, if you're curious.
 
I watched your CV3 differences breakdown video. Very cool and well done.

I had no idea how much better Grant was in the Famicom version of the game. That change and the difficulty changes are pretty crazy.

***
The Exorcist stairs. I was born in DC but moved to the midwest when I was young. My mom worked at Georgetown University. I wonder if my mom ever took my younger self to those stairs. Small world.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
I'm glad you liked it! And yeah, they were really close to my apartment when we lived there, I biked past them on the way to work everyday when we lived in DC.
 
Any input on why companies are so reticent to port PS1 era stuff? I feel like the NES/SNES/GBA games from Capcom and Konami have been played to death by everyone through various means. Why no 32 bit ports EVER?
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
You can add to that N64. Only Mario 64 seems to come out of that era (and Zelda, albeit heavily remade).
Possibly the fact that the N64 and Saturn are a swine to emulate well has something to do with their non-appearance, and the publishers worry that they look too archaic and would need more work than (say) a PS2 era game to tart up to modern standards.
 

gogglebob

The Goggles Do Nothing
(he/him)
Knowing absolutely nothing about this collection (for all we know "Advance" is a feint, and it is actually all the "advanced" N64 Castlevania titles), I kind of hope this has a "new game plus"/easy mode like the like Mega Man Zero collection, or the recent Final Fantasy re-releases. I like Aria of Sorrow "vanilla", but I would very much like a version where I could just click a button for zooming around the castle with all the souls acquired from jump street. Don't make it mandatory or anything, but sometimes I just want to play a Igavania where my OCD doesn't have to participate.
 
I would be thrilled if the GBA games come to consoles. I've never played any of them.

***
As an aside, I really like the Castlevania 64; except for the instant death bomb deposit section. I owned the first version of the game not Legacy of Darkness.

The N64 game has some very atmospheric levels and some good characters. Its obviously not amongst the best Castlevania games. But it is a good game IMO.
 
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I would be thrilled if the GBA games come to consoles. I've never played any of them.

***
As an aside, I really like the Castlevania 64; except for the instant death bomb deposit section. I owned the first version of the game not Legacy of Darkness.

The N64 game has some very atmospheric levels and some good characters. Its obviously not amongst the best Castlevania games. But it is a good game IMO.
I agree.

I'd love a collection of cv64/LoD, Lament of Innocence, Curse of Darkness
 
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