The Slayers Group Watch Thread

[John]

UNEARTHED: Lore city! Insert obligatory "are we the baddies" gif here. The golden dragon betrayal reveal puts their elder's earlier plan to capitulate to Almayce in a different light. And we finally got Xellos to say the line, which was overused in Revolution, but just enough in Try for a callback. Time for the dragon battle, we'll see if Xellos will repeat his earlier "Seven (thousand) in a single blow" exploits, or if he's sticking to shenanigans, trying to bring back Shabranigdo, who I thought we killed off in the first season? What does dead really mean in anime though.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Ah! One thing I forgot. The second eyecatch in Unearthed is unique, and I believes shows priest Rei Magnus frozen in their icy tomb along with their fragment of Shabby's soul. It also shows a blonde woman with a shovel which I am pretty sure is Beastmaster Zelas Metallium.

Whether this was meant to foreshadow a future season or just a fun wink at the light novels and backstory I'm not sure. Still haven't seen all of revolution.

 

[Egarwaen]

The golden dragon betrayal reveal puts their elder's earlier plan to capitulate to Almayce in a different light.

What do you think he was up to? I'm pretty sure he was hoping to get Almayce to take the bow and bail for another world - conveniently eliminating a threat to stability and erasing evidence of the gold dragons' crimes.

 

[John]

I haven't watched VENGEANCE yet, so I don't know if this was spelled out. Back then, he offered up the sword of light to Almayce, in exchange for him promising to only summon Dark Star in a different world. He also sent Filiya to help Almayce find the last weapon. He apparently knew where that weapon was all along, since he had it stored in their secret temple of atrocities. Giving up Gorunova enabled him to kick the Overworlder out of his territory, while still having the upper hand by controlling the final blade, and getting to send Lina & Co on a goose chase was just the cherry on top.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Yeah, I’d say he originally assumed Almayce would keep his word and summon Dark Star to another world, keeping Red World safe. But given Sirius and Erulogos’ general personality (and the fact that they’re pretty upfront about just leaving Darkstar here to save their own world) he decided to reconsider that; and just leave Darkstar in the world he’s trapped in now.

ANYWAY

Next is

Head for the Showdown
The Forbidden Gate Opens

Sounds like things are going great for our heroes, let’s say Wrath and… ah geez, X

Just X

 

[SpoonyBard]

Honestly since we're dealing with a gate to another world and also have seen a fantasy steampunk motif around it I'd call that episode XENOGEARS.

 

[Octopus Prime]

You see? This is why the collaborative process works.

 

[John]

VENGEANCE - Whole lotta dragon laser breath in this one, looked like Missile Command right before the world ends. The dragons didn't have much of an impact on the story after all, just something to momentarily stop the Overworlders.

I thought Xellos being beaten by positivity was extremely dumb. Him getting the boot in the face and whining about his spell being stopped was in character, but he can't handle people being happy? If this was a thing, why didn't they try being nice to all the other Monsters that they've fought? I know why, because it's dumb.

Almayce getting vented was not expected, I liked his Zero Wing model better than the other nobodies.

All the talk about "we can't break this barrier without someone descended from the Ancient Dragons", and we don't go down the big reveal of bringing back Valgaav, the last Ancient Dragon? I guess why go the tactical route when you can just hit it with a big magic sword.

 

[SpoonyBard]

All Your Almayce Are Belong To Us?

And that's silly. Bringing back Valgaav is silly.

 

[Egarwaen]

If this was a thing, why didn't they try being nice to all the other Monsters that they've fought? I know why, because it's dumb.

My (generous) interpretation is that it doesn't actually work and Amelia's a goof, but Xellos went along with it because it amused him.

Zelgadis goes along because he thinks Amelia's hot.

 

[John]

WRATH - The gang's gotta trudge their way allll the way back to the pillar of light so they can save the world yet again. Gillas gets to try his hand at Revenge again, with similar results. Meanwhile, Xellos gets to try his smarmy tactics with the Overworlders again, and they're having none of it. Looked like a temporary alliance was formed to take out Dark Star before they all go their separate ways.

This was a fine episode, but did feel a bit like they just needed some activities for the crew to go through on the way to the big battle. I liked Gillas finding a new Boss in Filia, all while keeping Valgaav in everyone's minds.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Wrath is largely filler (to the extent that it’s everyone walking to the final dungeon) but it serves the important point where the writers realize that Jillas is far and away the MVP of Try’s cast, so he gets integrated into the party. For… about three episodes. Good for you, Jillas; you made the leap from Comic Relief Antagonist to Comic Relief Sidekick.

Also appreciated the gag about trying to goad Filia into moving faster by tempting her with a carrot.

Xenogears is all together more relevant to the story; everyone’s goals more or less align; Xellos wants the monsters to be the ones to destroy the Red World by merit of them calling dibs on it first, Sirius convinces Logos that just trapping Darkstar in Red World would delay but guarantee the destruction of Overworld, Logos decides that a remote chance to beat Dark Star is better than just sitting back and letting him destroy everything, and everyone else has a general “No Apocalpses” platform they’re pretty dedicated to.

So they stick with Almayce original plan; and it’s a partial success because Darkstar is broken apart and brought down to half his power, but he’s still several Cthulhu’s tangled up, and half of infinite is still infinite, and there’s still a few episodes left so they barely scratch him, and just the force released by Darkstar moving, even at half strength, is enough to nearly kill everyone.

So they chase him and find he stopped in front of the Golden Dragon Temple and starts talking and is using Valgaavs voice, and then he reveals his true form; which is Valgaav back from the dead!

Which is way less intimidating than the amorphous dragon-satan he was a minute ago.

 

[Egarwaen]

While I've liked the rest of Try just fine, once the party gets back to the pillar of light, the story just gets sloppy. There's a lot of posing as everyone tries to convince Erulogos that killing Darkstar is better than just trapping him here, which mostly confirms that Eruologos is a selfish dipshit. Explains a lot about why they've utterly failed to oppose Darkstar if this is the level of strategy they've been employing.

 

[SpoonyBard]

WRATH: The serene look on Xellos's face as he's thrown back from the recoil of Galvayra is one of my favorite images in Try, TBH. Captures him perfectly: his playful nature and his capacity for absurd destruction.

Besides that, uh, Jillas is here! And he does more stuff! And I guess he's a good guy now! And also he likes Filia's boobs? Haha, silly Jillas!

I do like his contingency plan for a close-quarters assault by the sword-wielders: MORE CANNONS.

XENOGEARS: And now the final battle starts for real. Erulogos continues to be a giant asshole, but we do get at least SOME context for his behavior. His hesitation to go all-in on the 'kill Dark Star' plan seems to be due to some legit PTSD from all their other encounters with it and how many of their fellow Overworlders were slain in the attempts. The show doesn't delve into it nearly deeply enough to justify his prior actions or make him even slightly compelling, but at least it's an explanation?

But his asshole of a heart grows three sizes this day, just enough to get him to be a team player and close the portal on Dark Star, cutting his power in half, and giving us a really creepy monster design. The part-demon-part-smoke-monster-dragon-satan taking form is really neat, and Dark Star's theme music is suitably menacing (and one of the few Slayers Try OST tracks I can find on the Youtubs!)

But then the big reveal comes and we see that the final boss is actually Valgaav somehow. And, yeah, kind of a disappointment. It was clear there was more to his story, but killing him at the half-way point in the series felt pretty final. But I guess Dark Star absorbed him and Valgaav learned how to control it from within, not unlike the ambitions of a certain evil Guado.

Anyway get ready for two more episodes of Filia shouting 'Valgaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaav'.

 

[Octopus Prime]

While I've liked the rest of Try just fine, once the party gets back to the pillar of light, the story just gets sloppy. There's a lot of posing as everyone tries to convince Erulogos that killing Darkstar is better than just trapping him here, which mostly confirms that Eruologos is a selfish dipshit. Explains a lot about why they've utterly failed to oppose Darkstar if this is the level of strategy they've been employing.

I genuinely forgot that Erulogos and Sirius even existed until they showed up in this re-watch. One of the few villains who is even less memorable than Rodimus and Halciform

 

[Octopus Prime]

Also, I can't help but feel that Darkstar turning into Valgaav was at least a courtesy given to the animation staff, since rending a giant amorphous dragon-satan would have been a LOT more work than Some Guy With Wings.

Also, he doesn't have his cool monster arm anymore; Dammit Valgaav; you had a good thing going for a bit there!

 

[John]

XENOGEARS - Had to wait until the end to see Krelian/Valgaav again, as he tries to destroy the universe yet again, this time merged with Deus/Dark Star. It's... fine, just was a much more appealing villain when he didn't have a voice, or a cohesive corporeal body.

I don't quite know the logic that Zelgadis used to have Filia use three times as much energy to fly into the stratosphere and then coast down, compared to just flying straight. Maybe Dark Star's wake was super bumpy? Or it just gave them something to animate in the last 4 minutes of the episode.

 

[Egarwaen]

I genuinely forgot that Erulogos and Sirius even existed until they showed up in this re-watch. One of the few villains who is even less memorable than Rodimus and Halciform

It's really frustrating; we get a couple of episodes that almost give Erulogos and Sirius personalities, and almost show off them using a bunch of new tricks, but then they don't go anywhere and, frankly, didn't need to show up at all.

I don't quite know the logic that Zelgadis used to have Filia use three times as much energy to fly into the stratosphere and then coast down, compared to just flying straight. Maybe Dark Star's wake was super bumpy? Or it just gave them something to animate in the last 4 minutes of the episode.

The entire action of the finale is really bad at matching what the characters are describing to what's happening on screen. They talk about splitting Darkstar into five pieces, but when Shabranigdo was split into seven pieces he was literally split into seven pieces. Darkstar, meanwhile, just loses half his power by being split into five pieces but still winds up being one dude because ???

 

[Octopus Prime]

I think that they didn’t finish splitting him up before he started fighting back, but, as you said, it’s hard to tell

 

[SpoonyBard]

Oh right, one last thing I forgot before we move on to the last two episodes of TRY: After Jillas is thwarted Lina threatens him and does a very specific laugh, which Amelia takes time to point out she really hates.

If you haven't delved into the movies or OVAs, that was Naga's laugh Lina was doing. Fan speculation in the 90s was that Naga was Amelia's missing big sister who ran away from the kingdom when their mother died (and also took their mother's sorceress costume which, uh, either explains things about Phil or just raises more questions), and this offhand comment just added fuel to the speculation fire. These days it's more or less accepted as true (and I think season 4 makes a much more explicit connection?), though I'm not sure whether or not Lina knows this.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Was that really up for debate? Didn't they have the same last name, and also there was a painting of Naga in Amelias castle.

ANYHOW; It's just about time to put season 3 to bed with

He Who Emerges From the Dark Star
Try Again

Y'know, between that one and the season 2 finale, I really think they wanted to make a series called "Slayers Again"

Let's go with Yearning and Zest

 

[John]

YEARNING: It's too bad that the Tootsie Pop that's Dark Star in this realm is made of a hard candy weird bug shell with a soft gooey Valgaav center. At least Valgaav's more than just his whiny self, having both absorbed Dark Star and the Overworlder's god who I've forgotten the name of already.

If you didn't know this was an anime, we start going existential with the eternal struggle between Gods and Monsters happening out over millennia, and Valgaav just wants everything to turn to primordial ooze to start things fresh. Totally an original idea, Gainax/Gene Wolfe do not steal.

I kinda wish the big bad enemies were more, I dunno, cohesively plotted? They all just get name dropped in call/response battle dialog, instead of being a true part of the mythology of their world.

"It's me, Valgaav, who is also the Dark Lord Dark Star and Vophied" (I looked up the name)
"You're telling me you're the Dark Lord Dark Star and Vophied?"
"Yes, it's true, I am the Dark Lord Dark Star and Vophied, and I will destroy everything!"

Ah well, nothing much happened in this one aside from the Ancient Dragon being killed, which was expected, since Filia needs to save the world with her Love for Valgaav in the next episode. That's a tale for tomorrow though.

 

[Egarwaen]

Ironically, Try seems to lean more heavily on the viewer having some notion of the cosmology from the novels than the shows that are actually adapted from the novels.

 

[SpoonyBard]

And thus, Try comes an end. A messy, messy end.

YEARNING: Wow, this episode. Um. Did they run out of time and/or money? They were probably wanting to save their resources for the finale, but this episode has so many cut corners it's basically a circle. Some of the animation jank makes me feel like we're back in Season 1.

But anyway, the story.

Valgaav is back! Kinda. Sorta. Not really? It's him but not him. Aside from having a massive hate-on for Golden Dragons his personality is nothing like it was previously. He doesn't even so much as glance at Lina, and he wanted her capital-D Dead in the first half of the season. The anime hothead has instead turned into a bland JRPG final boss who wants to fix the world's mistakes by destroying it and starting over that we've all seen a hundred times by now.

Also the Golden Dragon Supreme Elder decides to remind us all of what a stupid asshole he is and attacks Valdarkgaavstar blindly and gets his dumbass killed by him for it. Not a single character will miss him, probably not even Filia.

Xellos manages to get Lina the high ground and she fires a Dragon Slave through Galvayra which still doesn't kill Vadarlkstagaavr and the episode ends with the dragon satan just.. leaving? Oh no!

ZEST: Luckily Filia knows where its going, which is back to the Ancient Dragon temple the party was at not a few episodes ago. (boy the party kind of goes around the world in circles in the last part of the season huh?) She is able to teleport the entire party all the way there because she can just DO that apparently and they get ready to make their final stand.

Oh and also Erulogos decides to remind us all of what a stupid asshole he is and attacks Darvalkgaastarv blindly and gets his dumbass killed by him for it. Not a single character will miss him, probably not even Sirias.

I got a chuckle from the gag of Graavos somersaulting in orbit. Dude's making the best of a bad situation.

Anyway, final stand time and the party decides to do the obvious thing the season was building towards and have light/dark magic fusion power the darkstar weapons to hit Davalrkstagaavr's weak point for massive damage. Filia has something of a moral crisis but finally decides it's for the best to just kill the hell out of Valgaav again.

So fully equipped with Darkstar weapons, including Amelia (Erulogos died so Amelia could wield a laser axe-hammer, which is the most important thing he ever did) the gang follows the prophecy, and something something five stars light and dark stand in the middle arrow kamehameha baddie go boom.

So the day is saved. Gourry lets Sirias take the Sword of Light back to Overworld because reasons. Valgaav is resurrected somehow because reasons. Lina inexplicably lets Filia off the hook regarding their promised payment because reasons. And no one will ever mention any of the events of this season again. Because reasons. (it's not canon)

But hey, Filia gets to sing a nice song while we see what everyone gets up to. She opens her own store (Filia's Maces and Vaces?) while watching over Valgaav's, uh, light bubble egg thing? Graavos is there too, guess he survived re-entry. Good for him.

Amelia is doing princess things (for JUSTICE), Zel decides to finally pose for that one shot in the NEXT opening, Xellos gives his report to Lord Beastmaster, and Lina and Gourry eat because what else would they do? THE END



So Try is... not my favorite season. In fact it's still my least favorite of the original three. Watching it immediately following them was interesting, though. It kind of is the opposite of NEXT, in that NEXT had rather messy plotting throughout but managed to stick the landing with the stellar last few episodes (and what is still one of my favorite anime conclusions ever), whereas Try felt more cohesive on the whole (the giant pillar of light, Darkstar, Valgaav, and the Overworlders were all constants throughout) but kind of flubbed the landing at the end. Ah well. Still it had its moments, and while the finale was a mess it certainly felt 'big' in parts in ways the first two season finales didn't.

At this point I'd recommend trying to watch Slayers Premium if you can, but it doesn't seem to be available to stream anywhere. Same sort of issue as the movies and OVAs, if you don't already own them as a physical DVD or Blu-Ray then there's no legal way to watch it.

Are we going to go to Revolution next week, or are we making a pit stop in a Lost Universe?

 

[Octopus Prime]

That’s a good question. I believe Revolution is more accessible (got a nice rerelease a few years back, and it’s on the Funi app), but Lost Universe fits better chronologically (ironic given that it’s the spaceships one) And I think it’s on YouTube if you don’t have a physical copy of the dvd.

Im good with either, and fully intend to do both, but we can put it to a vote.

As for Try, despite not Being able to stick the landing at all, it held up a lot better than my memories of it. It was a nice contrast of following a single storyline all the way through, as opposed to season 1 with its Random Adventures That Coincidentally Lead to a Big Monster Fight, or Nexts attempt to do both. Vaalgaav had a good run as a Main Villain until he decides to say Screw It and be the blandest JRPG villain.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Lost Universe is on Crunchyroll isn't it? Granted I don't have a sub for that one yet, I was waiting for that big Crunchy-Funi merger to happen. Maybe put it off until after Revolution/Evolution-R and see where said merger is then?

 

[John]

ZEST - Finally done. I wish the ending was more than just using the same five weapons to shoot the same guy, but in a slightly different configuration. It looked like Dark Star was dropping the equivalent of Dragon Slaves all across the world wherever he went. Hope that was in unpopulated areas, but he probably still killed thousands, not to mention the animals that lived in that swath.

In the end, Valgaav got to be reborn, and Filia got a purpose after her worldview was shattered. Zelgadis can pine over love that couldn't be because he never actually asked Amilia if she "like-liked" him. Graavos got knocked out of orbit where he's been spinning in stasis for months, and gets to work in Filia's pot shop with Jillas. And Lina & Gourry just get to smile and eat a meal as their reward.

I haven't watched/read anything outside of these three seasons, but was it implied that Xellos was working for Lina's sister the whole time? Kinda got that impression from his coda scene with a woman's leg, and that he name dropped her at the final battle. Dunno though, it was in a small screen on my already small iPad, since the dub decided to just put the full screen into a quarter size instead of adding on the English credits after the Japanese roll.

I don't have a stake in what goes on next. The other two half seasons are on Funi, and the other looks to be both on Crunchyroll and Youtube

Here's the link to the Lost Universe dub and sub on Youtube, though you may have to click through to see them. The dub's an official release, but has some watermarks. The sub looks like a rip from an older ADV release, uploaded by some guy. Amusingly (to me), I checked out the dvd release on Amazon, and they have it under the genre "Fitness & Exercise".

 

[Octopus Prime]

I haven't watched/read anything outside of these three seasons, but was it implied that Xellos was working for Lina's sister the whole time? Kinda got that impression from his coda scene with a woman's leg, and that he name dropped her at the final battle.

Nah, that was Beastmaster Xellias (Zellias? Something like that), and her leg is pretty much all the appearance she makes across the series. I think she might have also popped up in a commercial bumper too, but that's it. I think she *may* be the leader of Red Worlds monster race now, since Shabby, Phibrizzo and Gaav all died, but doesn't do much besides instruct Xellos to be mysterious.

 

[Octopus Prime]

If no one has any objections I think we’ll go for Lost Universe next, since it came out IIRC, just after Try did anyway; so the timing works out better.

It’s also the one series I have no memory of, or any knowledge of whether I even watched it in any capacity. I’m 80% sure I at least saw a few episodes!

 

[SpoonyBard]

As long as those youtube vids don't disappear I'm game.

I saw Lost Universe only once. Way back when, my undergrad anime society's (remember those?) midterm break fest, where they would show the entirety of a 26-episode series over a long weekend. Lost Universe was one such fest. So I did see the entire thing, but I don't really remember anything about it besides spaceships and another really great OP.