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the scott pilgrim game is coming back

madhair60

Video games
it's part of the story and characterisation that him dating Knives is gross and exploitative. he's constantly called out on it from book 1
 

madhair60

Video games
have I said something incorrect/problematic? I read the comics years ago. I'm sure I remember Scott being dumped on constantly for being a creep.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
That’s correct, though I can’t speak for others if they find it objectionable still in spite of that. Scott being a piece of shit is a core element of the first two books.

Now don’t get me started on the alternate ending for the movie.
 

madhair60

Video games
I didn't mean to minimise any potential objections to the material, I thought Beat's post ("right side of history") seemed to be emphatically stating that Scott's sketchiness was somehow lauded by the text itself. Obviously I'm mistaken. Nobody has to like the books. I don't think they hold up entirely well. The whole premise is a little bit gross.

I didn't like the movie at all...
 

JBear

Internet's foremost Bertolli cosplayer
(He/Him)
have I said something incorrect/problematic? I read the comics years ago. I'm sure I remember Scott being dumped on constantly for being a creep.
I'm confident that Drac's post was not in response to you, given his earlier posts in this thread.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
I thought Beat's post ("right side of history") seemed to be emphatically stating that Scott's sketchiness was somehow lauded by the text itself.
I was more referring to the SHEER VOLUME of YOUNGBEAT'S wrongness, to the point that an instance of me being correct, (textually supported or not) was notable and memorable.

I get what you're saying though Madhair you're good no worries.
 
I don't think they hold up entirely well. The whole premise is a little bit gross.
It was always gross. To me, they always read as a pretty self-aware analysis of what it's like to be a scumbag who slowly becomes self-aware of his scuminess. The problem was that it blew up and became popular because scumbag nerds were like "Woah! This speaks to me! Because I like NES too!" it being on the vanguard of nostalgia-bait for our generation. And then it also read like the author was like, "Well shit, these nerds are missing the point, but they're also putting food on my plate and I can't piss them off too much soooo..."
 

Dracula

Posts: 52,928
(He/His)
have I said something incorrect/problematic? I read the comics years ago. I'm sure I remember Scott being dumped on constantly for being a creep.
Yeah, no, sorry, I didn't really mean to agree or disagree with anyone in particular. I just think this line of discussion is pretty well played out and doesn't have much to do with the game, and this thread has already been fairly off topic from the beginning, and I got a little frustrated. It's okay if you (the plural you) disagree with me. I probably shouldn't have said anything at all.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Nobody has to like the books. I don't think they hold up entirely well. The whole premise is a little bit gross.

I didn't like the movie at all...
I mean, I still like the books. Hell, I still like the movie, or at least the cut that came out to theaters...

...but that alternate ending.

That Edgar Wright original plan was to have the moral of the movie essentially be “It’s okay to groom a 17 year old as long as you have similar hobbies. Don’t let the haters get to you!”, that seemingly nobody above him or below him objected to this, that it got far enough along that it was filmed and and shown at early prerelease screenings, that the only reason it was changed was that Brian Lee O’Malley managed to finish the last book before the film released, and Wright had an “Oh shit! What the hell was I thinking!” moment and managed to get an 11th hour reshoot in with all the necessary actors. 10 years older and wiser me is just dumbfounded by the whole thing.
 

Paul le Fou

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(He)
Scott Pilgrim being a total garbage human and eventually growing up and growing out of that is the point of Scott Pilgrim. Like, I get it, it's gross, but that's like saying you don't want to watch Scarface because he kills people and you're not OK with murder.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
If I'm reading the discussion correctly, the issue is that neither the film nor the comic accurately and undeniably convey that fact; they're more preoccupied with the surface-level aspects (pop culture reference, nerd/gamer jokes, visual appeal) than with driving the central theme forward.

And, TBF, I've often lambasted Fight Club for glamorizing its characters and delivering the Narrator a "happy" ending, even though the actual point of both it and the book is to chastise the Tyler Durden mentality. Exact same thing happened with Watchmen and Rorschach. So I see where the SP criticism is coming from.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
And, TBF, I've often lambasted Fight Club for glamorizing its characters and delivering the Narrator a "happy" ending, even though the actual point of both it and the book is to chastise the Tyler Durden mentality. Exact same thing happened with Watchmen and Rorschach. So I see where the SP criticism is coming from.
I swear, if I see one more MMA group in my area make Fight Club references I’m... not going to do anything because they can probably kick my ass.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
If I'm reading the discussion correctly, the issue is that neither the film nor the comic accurately and undeniably convey that fact; they're more preoccupied with the surface-level aspects (pop culture reference, nerd/gamer jokes, visual appeal) than with driving the central theme forward.

And, TBF, I've often lambasted Fight Club for glamorizing its characters and delivering the Narrator a "happy" ending, even though the actual point of both it and the book is to chastise the Tyler Durden mentality. Exact same thing happened with Watchmen and Rorschach. So I see where the SP criticism is coming from.
There's a non-zero chance I regret weighing in on this thread, but here goes: It's not an author's job to be so heavy-handed that even the dippiest of dipshits get that "a 23 year-old dating a high school girl is fucked up" or "toxic masculinity taken to its logical end is bad." If Scott Pilgrim "accurately and undeniably" conveyed that being a grown man dating a 17 year-old is shitty, it would be bad, because it would necessarily be heavy-handed and preachy. I mean, as it is, every other character calls him out on it, Wallace even tells Knives she's too good for Scott. If people don't get that, I question if they would get a giant neon sign drawn in the background that said "THIS IS BAD." (In fact, they'd probably fall back on "Lee meant that ironically," to justify their bad reading.)

People taking the wrong message from media isn't new, and I find it tiring that some people (and to be explicit, this is not directed at you, Zef) have decided that people having a bad reading of a work means the work is now problematic to the point that no one should watch/enjoy it.
 
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