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the scott pilgrim game is coming back

MCBanjoMike

Infamous third lava dolphin
(He/him)
I always saw this as a reason to be okay with stealing from asshole companies like Ubisoft, not to justify giving them money, but I'm probably wrong about this as I usually get colloquialisms wrong lol.
I'm pretty sure it means that anyone you give money to is problematic in some way. There's probably a grain of truth to that, at least for any large corporation that you deal with. It's also a way to acknowledge that you can't live your life without occasionally doing business with someone icky - not to completely absolve people in their decision making, but so you don't beat yourself up for the occasional lapse. Because at this point, what company in the world of games doesn't have some major issues? Ubisoft is on record as having a workplace that is discriminatory towards women, Blizzard went against the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong earlier this year, Activision is known for strip-mining studios and then discarding them and EA was industry leader in shady microtransactions. If you play any major games at all, you're probably contributing in some way to people you don't like. Pick your battles and try to stick to them, but don't get all high and mighty on everybody because your consumer habits probably aren't airtight either.

Also, people like Brian Lee O'Malley, Paul Robertson and Anamanaguchi probably aren't bad (as far as I know), so does paying for the Scott Pilgrim game give them money and support their work? Does the bad outweigh the good in that case? Who knows!
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Again, my problem is not with people buying the game, it's with patting themselves on the back with how much they know Ubisoft sucks and then expressing enthusiasm with buying the game anyway in the same breath. Saying, basically, "Ubisoft sucks and I can't wait to buy a game from them" feels different to me than just "I can't wait to buy a game from Ubisoft."

In any case I've derailed the thread enough at this point, I'll see myself out.
 

MCBanjoMike

Infamous third lava dolphin
(He/him)
Again, my problem is not with people buying the game, it's with patting themselves on the back with how much they know Ubisoft sucks and then expressing enthusiasm with buying the game anyway in the same breath.

In any case I've derailed the thread enough at this point, I'll see myself out.
I think it's a discussion worth having, especially around Ubisoft's recent Forward presentation and the tacked-on way that they handled the allegations of abuse at their company, so don't worry about derailing. Probably worth its own thread at some point, but that sounds like more effort than I can put in right now.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Should I start with Scott first and then move to RCG as to "not get spoiled" by the latter? (It's like when I was told to check Bastion out first, then move to Transistor.)
Honestly, I didn’t really feel like RCG was a major step up from Scott Pilgrim, but then again I haven’t played Scott Pilgrim in years on account of the whole unplayable on modern platforms deal.
 

MCBanjoMike

Infamous third lava dolphin
(He/him)
Honestly, neither Scott Pilgrim nor RCG really clicked with me and I am 100% the target audience for both of those games. I'd say the best brawler in recent years is Steets of Rage 4.
 

Pajaro Pete

(He/Himbo)
The thing that annoys me is when people post that (admittedly good) dunk from Nintendo World Report but then express enthusiasm for buying it from Ubisoft.
the person who posted that dunk here never expressed any enthusiasm for buying or playing this game.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
the person who posted that dunk here never expressed any enthusiasm for buying or playing this game.
My apologies, I interpreted creating the thread in the first place with, as an example, the words "it's back baby" in it as enthusiasm for buying/playing the game, but I suppose that was irony.
 
Honestly, neither Scott Pilgrim nor RCG really clicked with me and I am 100% the target audience for both of those games. I'd say the best brawler in recent years is Steets of Rage 4.
Not played RCG, but reason RCR works with its upgradableness is
1. it's super easy
2. it's super short

I played some RC Underground, and I wanted to love it, but you can become hopelessly underleveled if you are playing with a player who is better. So what that means is you just sit there grinding to catch up. And really that's not what I play these games for . i don't mind difficulty if it is predetermined and static move set that you can explore and exploit.

Pilgrim is a beautiful game where the first level goes on forever and ever, because its ruthless and all enemies have too much HP that requires you to grind to buy moves etc.

A better game around same time was Castle Crashers, it handled the leveling up thing a lot better.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
I still have the game downloaded in my old XB360, but I only bought it and then never touched it. So it should be good if I ever want to play it without supporting Ubisoft as a company, I guess? I never really understood the thirst for the SP game in general. I assumed that anyone who cared enough about the franchise to get the game would have gotten it long before it was pulled from the shop--and that opinions on said franchise have evolved enough with time, that anyone who would still want to play it now would HAVE to be aware of the extremely problematic narrative, the dubious storytelling that surrounds it, and both the books' and the film's lack of commitment to the central theme.

I mean, yes, SP is a prime example of how media rights ownership, the volatility of digital game libraries, and studio heads' greater concern on profits and control threaten the preservation of art and other creative products. But... it's just another example, of which there are way too many, so the specific focus on SP overestimates its importance within that context.

Also, back to the "supporting Ubisoft as a company"... this is beyond the scope of the thread, but, what answer could there be to wanting to support the individual devs, or even communities of devs, who struggle hard within a company to make their voices heard and make a difference, and who are themselves the victims of abuse, sexism, racism, et al, when they're employed by a execs and shareholders who will take your money and take 90c of $1 for themselves and leave the rest for the legitimate workers?

Also and apropos of nothing but River City Girls killed any interest I could still have had for 2D brawlers so I'm more interested in discussions about how SP is Bad than the game people had been clamoring for, apparently.
 

ASandoval

Old Man Gamer
(he/him)
I still have the game downloaded in my old XB360, but I only bought it and then never touched it. So it should be good if I ever want to play it without supporting Ubisoft as a company, I guess? I never really understood the thirst for the SP game in general. I assumed that anyone who cared enough about the franchise to get the game would have gotten it long before it was pulled from the shop--and that opinions on said franchise have evolved enough with time, that anyone who would still want to play it now would HAVE to be aware of the extremely problematic narrative, the dubious storytelling that surrounds it, and both the books' and the film's lack of commitment to the central theme.
I have the game on my PS3 but missed out on the DLC. Also while I can and probably should back it up, without a physical copy once it is gone, it's gone (which is why this really should be followed up by a physical version as well, but I digress). And while I would argue that everyone is going to have taken something different from the overall narrative of the book/movie/game or that you can both recognize the problematic elements and come to peace with the fact that you took something positive from it that you still carry with you today*, that regardless of either of those things the work stands as a cultural snapshot and deserves preservation in all its forms with proper context**, because anything else would be erasure.

Also, back to the "supporting Ubisoft as a company"... this is beyond the scope of the thread, but, what answer could there be to wanting to support the individual devs, or even communities of devs, who struggle hard within a company to make their voices heard and make a difference, and who are themselves the victims of abuse, sexism, racism, et al, when they're employed by a execs and shareholders who will take your money and take 90c of $1 for themselves and leave the rest for the legitimate workers?
Well in some cases you can find their individual work and support them through their individual means but in the case of a mega-corp like Ubisoft (remember: the credits for Scott Pilgrim are nearly 10 minutes long, if not longer), devs who are not necessarily artists or even programmers, or the devs who are contracted to do the port of this game whose labor should also be recognized, that's a lot trickier because while they won't see the money you're spending, sales numbers are often used as an excuse for the mega-corp to lay developers off or decide who they contract in the future.*** It's why visible, vocal opposition not just from the public but the press such as that NWN report are so important - both to show solidarity and to make sure the top brass hear you loud and clear.

* I am not necessarily speaking for myself here.

** Yes piracy/emulation are still a thing but it is getting trickier for emulation to keep up with the march of technology and things will inevitably still slip by and get lost. While something popular with a lot of buzz like SP doesn't necessarily have to worry about that, it shouldn't fall on the grey market to bear that burden in the first place.

*** Also to be clear, this is not a condemnation of folks who don't feel comfortable giving Ubisoft their money right now or in the future. Your moral compass is your own and deserves respect. This is just another lens which should be considered as we weed through all of this muck and figure out how we dismantle these broken systems and create something better.
 

Dracula

Posts: 52,928
(He/His)
Like every single River City beat-em-up game, winning in the Scott Pilgrim game relies on building experience points and collecting esoteric power-ups by buying them in shops. I think it's fair to argue that this flow of gameplay can feel like jank if you're used to a straightforward beater like Streets of Rage or X-Men or The Violent Storm. But it was designed that way intentionally, so if the style of a RC game feels like "forced grinding" to you, then this game will not be enjoyable.

That said, I absolutely loved this game and it was one of my most-played titles on my 360 back when I had one. At the time it came out I was already a big fan of Scott Pilgrim (both movie and books), and this game married two other talents I was already a fan of (musicians Amanaguchi and sprite artist Paul Robertson). Plus at the time, the beater genre was all-but dead and we didn't live in a world where every third small-team game had beautiful pixel art.

I remember watching some of Robertson's animations, on his tumblr, before the game was announced, and thinking stuff like "man I wish I could play that game." That there would be a real game, in a genre I loved, based on a property I loved, and made with real care by people who obviously loved making it, was one of those serendipitous hobby moments for me. Plus I could play it with my friends! And now I can play it with my friends again! And not have to use an Xbox 360 controller!

Anyway you can skip a chunk of the first stage through a subspace door. bye
 

Paul le Fou

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(He)
I might grab this since I never did, but it's also not really my genre. I do like Paul Robertson animations and Anamanaguchi music, though?

As for the "no ethical consumption under capitalism" topic, I was vocal about refusing to play RDR2 because of Rockstar's exploitative labor practices, but was also reminded that if the game does poorly, it's not the assholes at the top who get fired or lose any money, it's the programmers and artists and writers at the bottom. At a certain point we have to look into ways to change the whole underlying system. So like, buy the game or don't, based on your personal comfort, but more importantly, advocate for labor organization in the games industry and vote for politicians willing to pass laws to protect workers instead of let them live at the mercy of the whims of corporate tyranny.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I might grab this since I never did, but it's also not really my genre. I do like Paul Robertson animations and Anamanaguchi music, though?

As for the "no ethical consumption under capitalism" topic, I was vocal about refusing to play RDR2 because of Rockstar's exploitative labor practices, but was also reminded that if the game does poorly, it's not the assholes at the top who get fired or lose any money, it's the programmers and artists and writers at the bottom. At a certain point we have to look into ways to change the whole underlying system. So like, buy the game or don't, based on your personal comfort, but more importantly, advocate for labor organization in the games industry and vote for politicians willing to pass laws to protect workers instead of let them live at the mercy of the whims of corporate tyranny.

Thank you for expressing that far better than I ever could.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Note, my understanding is that boycotts rarely reach a large enough size to actually significantly impact the company being being boycotted financially. Rather, it’s the negative press surrounding he boycotts on how it effects their PR (and how negative PR can impact their growth) that gets companies to change course. So yeah, buy or don’t buy something based on how comfortable you are personally. The important thing on a broader scale is to not let companies sweep their bad behavior under the rug, which can be done many ways.
 

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
I sincerely do not remember this game being intensely grindy in order to just beat it once. I played through it with 1 other person and do not remember us having to stop and grind to beat the game. But uh, my memories are as old as the game is so... idk.
 

Dracula

Posts: 52,928
(He/His)
I sincerely do not remember this game being intensely grindy in order to just beat it once. I played through it with 1 other person and do not remember us having to stop and grind to beat the game. But uh, my memories are as old as the game is so... idk.
I think the claims of grindiness are a bit exaggerated. I also don't remember grinding at all in my playthrough(s). The game probably becomes easier with some grinding, but I don't remember it being necessary.
 

WildcatJF

I will not be stopping
(he / his / him)
For the record, if people want to buy UBI Soft games, I'm not judging them. I'm generally just SUPER PISSED at their practices and am personally choosing to not engage with anything from them outside of BG&E (not the prequel) and the Rayman platformers at this point. I've written up a massive diatribe about them I'll probably use as a base for a thread about their practices tomorrow. I'm glad this news makes some people happy. I'm just angry at the company for using this as a means to divert away from their abuses.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
I sincerely do not remember this game being intensely grindy in order to just beat it once. I played through it with 1 other person and do not remember us having to stop and grind to beat the game. But uh, my memories are as old as the game is so... idk.
I think here is the disconnect. Scott Pilgrim (and arguably River City Ransom/Girls) were balanced for two players, so when you’re playing them solo, your stats need to be considerably higher to keep pace with what two players can manage together.
 

Issun

Could be a fren
I might grab this since I never did, but it's also not really my genre. I do like Paul Robertson animations and Anamanaguchi music, though?

As for the "no ethical consumption under capitalism" topic, I was vocal about refusing to play RDR2 because of Rockstar's exploitative labor practices, but was also reminded that if the game does poorly, it's not the assholes at the top who get fired or lose any money, it's the programmers and artists and writers at the bottom. At a certain point we have to look into ways to change the whole underlying system. So like, buy the game or don't, based on your personal comfort, but more importantly, advocate for labor organization in the games industry and vote for politicians willing to pass laws to protect workers instead of let them live at the mercy of the whims of corporate tyranny.

Exactly. Draw your lines where you feel comfortable, but always remember that voting with your wallet is bullshit. Even very large boycotts make only minor changes and the only way to fix it all is to change the whole system.
 

Riot.EXE

Fighting Game Enthusiast
(He/Him)
Again, my problem is not with people buying the game, it's with patting themselves on the back with how much they know Ubisoft sucks and then expressing enthusiasm with buying the game anyway in the same breath. Saying, basically, "Ubisoft sucks and I can't wait to buy a game from them" feels different to me than just "I can't wait to buy a game from Ubisoft."

In any case I've derailed the thread enough at this point, I'll see myself out.
They're still doing better than Mike Z and his ruining of Skullgirls...

I might grab this since I never did, but it's also not really my genre. I do like Paul Robertson animations and Anamanaguchi music, though?
Paul: I wanna put gory zombies in this game

Everyone that knows Scott Pilgrim: That story has fuckall to do with any of that in any version we've seen.

Paul: I wanna put gory zombies in this game

EtkSP: DUDE! Your animation and art style is great but this game DOESN'T FUCKING NEED ZOMB--

Paul: ME PUT ZOMBIES IN GAME! I DO GORE ZOMBIES! YOU DEAL WITH GORE ZOMBIES OR I WALK!

EtkSP: ...okay, fine, you can put a graveyard in there...I'm sure there's graveyards in Canada. BUT THE ZOMBIES CAN ONLY BE THERE!

Paul: YAY GORY ZOMBIES!!!

EtkSP: ...now please, shut the fuck up and make those god damn graphics, a'ight? Fuck...
 

Ludendorkk

(he/him)
What I really hated about this and Castle Crashers is that if you switch characters you have to start leveling from scratch again. Argh.
 

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
I'll buy it and I'll say "fuck Ubisoft," because while I'm happy this game is being re-released, this doesn't mean what they've done has been forgotten nor forgiven.

If they can live with that and what this one-off purchase gives them, then good on them, more power to them. But as it stands, anything else I might have been interested in, like that Prince of Persia remake, I'm just turning and walking away from.
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
What I really hated about this and Castle Crashers is that if you switch characters you have to start leveling from scratch again. Argh.
This is exactly why I never replayed Castle Crashers. I had a fully-powered Red Knight, and it was REAL HARD to go back to square one.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Exactly. Draw your lines where you feel comfortable, but always remember that voting with your wallet is bullshit. Even very large boycotts make only minor changes and the only way to fix it all is to change the whole system.
If we can't even collectively agree not to give our money to evil assholes, what hope do we have of changing the whole system? "Voting with my wallet" is one of the only things I can do besides whine on the internet, which I do plenty of.
 

sfried

Fluffy Prince
Are people going to judge me if I decide to get it because...I never played this game before?
 

JaikuRirishii

Worthless Physicist
(He/Him)
I was a big fan of this when it was originally around, but since then I've played more modern river-city-like games. I have fond enough memory that I'm going to pick it up. The art style is, IMO, really nice, regardless of what other stuff that artist is known for putting out.

Also fuck Ubisoft, and also fuck me for not being principled enough to deny myself superfluous stuff like this instead of voting with my wallet.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
SUDDEN VIOLENT FLASHBACKS TO TALKING TIME 1.0 WHEN SOMEONE BROUGHT UP SCOTT PILGRIM AND I ASKED WHAT IT WAS AND SOMEONE TOLD ME IT'S ABOUT A 23 YEAR OLD DATING A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT" AND I WAS LIKE THAT'S GROSS AND SOMEONE SAID "YES BUT IT'S NOT ILLEGAL!"

THAT SHIT HAPPENED IN THIS COMMUNITY. IT WAS ONE OF THE MAYBE 6 TIMES IN TOTAL YOUNGBEAT WAS ACTUALLY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY AND AS SUCH I WILL NEVER FORGET IT.

ALSO I DON'T LIKE PAUL ROBINSON'S CUTE BOUNCY 16-BIT FUN HORNY GORE STYLE, SO THIS ONE WAS PRETTY EASY FOR ME TO SKIP, BOTH THEN AND NOW.
 

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
I HAVE ZERO DOUBT I COULD FIND SOMEONE WHO COULD TELL ME THAT ROBINSON'S WORK WAS ACTUALLY A COMMENTARY ON HYPERSEXUALIZED VIOLENCE HIDING IN THINGS THAT ARE AT A GLANCE CUTE AND INOFFENSIVE.

I HOPE ONE DAY I FIND THAT PERSON, AS I HAVE A BRIDGE TO SELL THEM. IN BROOKLYN.
 
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