Metroid Dread is finally real

[Gaer]

I don’t see the garters, but I’m not about to tell Peklo she’s wrong for interpreting that way. Samus as a character has been well maligned since Fusion.

I also have little tolerance for sexualised designs for fictional women. I have to agree about the visor. I don’t like it.

For reference Samus for me was a badass, the proof that a woman could do anything a man could.

I realize that this reflects the internalized misogyny I grew up with, but also the overt misogyny I faced growing up. I still see it that way and have always felt a kinship with her.

 

[4-So]

To me, that the design somewhat resembles garters is incidental and I'm willing to assume not deliberate. I would never have "seen" garters until someone pointed it out.

The Fusion suit was ugly and one of the few things I disliked about that game. I don't have any real opinions one way or another on the new one - so much white seems like an odd choice; the EMMIs also have a lot of white (is she fused with one of those?) - but it's better than the Fusion suit. (I also want to be invited to Vaeran's party.)

 

[Vaeran]

You're in, baby!

(I'll take a brief break from shitposting in this thread to clarify that I don't think the Fusion suit is a bad design, even though it doesn't aesthetically appeal to me. I appreciate the Metroid elements incorporated into it to symbolize her new hybrid status, and I think it's appropriate for the low point Samus is at narratively in Fusion to have a suit that looks alien and a little vulnerable, a little less like a walking tank. I just tend to dislike more organic mechanical designs as a matter of taste -- give me big chunky armor plates with clean, angled seams, please -- and the Fusion suit looks like someone took the Power Suit and dipped it in weird blue gunk. No thanks.

As much as I adore the iconic Varia Suit, I think it would have been a little cowardly and boring for the developers to have Samus be able to jump right back into it, as if the events of Fusion didn't happen or don't matter. She suffered a real loss, and the ramifications of that should be reflected in her armor design going forward. While I can certainly understand that the Dread suit is not for everyone, for me it distills the sleekness of the Fusion design with a more mechanical, armored look that's reminiscent of the Varia but manages to be its own thing.)

 

[muteKi]

Look at the third image, from behind:

Does it really not look like garters to you?

I definitely see it here. I think the way it's textured in-game at least is sinewy enough that it's not anywhere near as blatant; I'm not sure from only the game if I'd have thought this without it being pointed out to me.

 

[nosimpleway]

Looking at the leftmost image leads me to think garters weren't the intended look, or the "straps" would be thinner on the front.

 

[Lokii]

I don't know if this is the general Metroid thread now, but it feels silly to make new one. I started a new game of Samus Returns 'cause the news so I'm going to do a post here and if there's a better thread me culpa.

Pointless context: I played half-way or so through the game at launch, but I didn't finish. I remember the digging sections of the robot but not the fight itself. I remember very little other than how the metroid fights worked and parrying enemies. Otherwise it's like it's all brand new.

I can def understand why some people dislike this game. It's pretty funky. I was at odds with it until I glommed onto the rhythm. No that I see what it's doing it's turning into quite the compelling little explore-'em-up. I like how they took the original maps with the big rooms (which were always a bit of an oddity in the series) and justify them by turning them into a series of Chozo temples, which in turn justifies all sorts of things from non-linear exploration focused design to the way the rooms inside the temples tangle in all sorts of ways, to differentiating the zones in a way different from plant, fire, bubble, etc (though there's plenty of that too). Wacky for a Metroid but pretty successful in it's own way. I have yet to fight this robot tho. Metroid games sometimes have roadblock bosses. To this day I've not seen an inch of Prime 2 past the boost guardian.

 

[Octopus Prime]

I’m with ya, Loki.

Samus Returns was always one of my favourite games in the series and while I can see why it ain’t everyone’s cup of tea, I’ve always been surprised at how dismissive of it everyone is

 

[Purple]

I'm not bothered by all the lines or especially by the color scheme but...

For the first time ever, Samus' armor has a distinct NECK and that is really just wigging me out.

 

[Felicia]

My interpretation of Samus through the games I've played (NES Metroid, Metroid 2, Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion) is that she's a character who's slowly learning the consequences of being a "badass" video game hero. In the first game she's your typical cool space warrior, killing all creatures she encounter and blowing up the Space Pirate's base. Then there's the critical moment in the ending of Metroid 2, one of the greatest subtle storytelling moments in video games in my opinion, where after going through a hellish ordeal she just can't bring herself to wipe out an entire species, and is rewarded for it by The Last Metroid rescuing her from dying deep below the surface of the planet, the two of them working together to reach the surface. I don't agree with her words from the introduction of Super Metroid that she merely saved the larva because she though it would provide scientific benefits, I saw it as her finally realizing that what she was doing was a genocide. In Super Metroid, she's once again rewarded for her one act of mercy in the previous game. And then, in Metroid Fusion, she learns that the near-wiping out of the metroids actually caused an ecological imbalance, allowing an even deadlier species to propagate, and that the Federation is secretly breeding the metroids for their own end. One of my favorite scenes in Fusion is when Samus discovers the room full of metroid larvae, and they don't attack her, but allow her to use them as platforms. Because she's one of them now, she understands their pain and their will to survive, especially after seeing what a terrifying monster she herself must be to them (via her encounters with SA-X).

If it was up to me, the story of Metroid Dread would be Samus somehow becoming the new Metroid Queen, returning the species to its niche in the space ecology, and fighting the corrupt Federation.

 

[Octopus Prime]

My interpretation is far simpler in that Samus is literally the only competent person in the entire federation and she’s exasperated at having to solve every problem herself.

This mainly comes from the cutscenes in Samus Returns, where her reaction to defeating Diggernaut is that she’s just friggin’ done with this stupid thing and her reaction to Ridley is to shrug because now she has to deal with this asshole.

Also; I like the Fusion suit in theory, but would have preferred they went all out in making it a weird bio monster shell kind of thing, as opposed to it being her regular suit, except made of gummy bears.

 

[Purple]

If it was up to me, the story of Metroid Dread would be Samus somehow becoming the new Metroid Queen, returning the species to its niche in the space ecology, and fighting the corrupt Federation.

That's also what we've have gotten if it were up to me, back when I first finished Super Metroid and trying to work out how they could continue the series with the title still fitting. But now that I am no longer [REDACTED] years old and I've seen the Alien movies whose vibe the whole series is endebted to, with the character parallels, and the whole what-the-aliens-represent thing, AND we have the looming spectre of the game so unsubtle about wanting to do motherhood themes that they just straight up called it MOM (and MUM in the UK!) I am pretty vehemently opposed now to ever seeing anything even remotely resembling that (side note, are we full-on ignoring that one now? Canonically? I notice the trailer for this new game alternately refers to it as "Metroid 5" and all). I'm all on board with Samus-is-a-friend-of-Metroid-children mind, just... absolutely never in a parental sort of role.

Also Octo, are you talking about a SAX that's basically Zeiram or something, or like, freaky monster Samus?

I'm totally on board with freaky monster Samus so long as we keep taking the suit off at the end and going out for drinks.

 

[Felicia]

I'm reminded of these excellent old fanarts someone did of what Samus should look like after Fusion.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Zeirams a good comparison, but I was thinking more like Guyver. Or that art Fredde posted.

 

[Peklo]

For those that "don't see it" re: sexualized elements in visual design: that's fine! Those are often subjective and interpretive, based on a confluence of personal reference points and biases. I don't expect many to share my views on the specific one brought up here, and all I ask for is for such concerns not to be dismissed as illegitimate or "made up."

None of this stuff's actually constantly applied either; in some renders, screenshots and footage I'm forced to apply the criticisms I outlined and in others they're less prevalent and alternatives feel more relevant, like the mentioned muscle fiber read on the suit texture. It fluctuates wildly through the framing of the camera (as this game has one, and directorial choices matter), the lighting, the animation emphasis. The above is a commonly disseminated screengrab of Samus simply kneeling down to inspect something; I felt queasy and uncomfortable upon first seeing it because of how I read the shape of her body, how oddly figure-hugging it came across in silhouette, how emphasized in soft curves on a character that's usually defined by hardened steel--Zero Suit principles applied on a protective exoskeleton.

The narrative elements ostensibly informing Dread from the preceding game are there to smooth over this transition, I assume, but that's again a point of personal disconnect as Fusion's entire premise was the transformation of the mechanical and external to the organic and symbiotic; the "second skin" read worked there, and through the specifics of visual design, as well as the resolution of a GBA game, I did not have the same misgivings there about the portrayal. Outside of the sexualization discourse, no matter how they spin it I also think this suit look is less evocative of that daring, literally evolutionary step and risk Fusion took in portraying and reinventing its protagonist--a little too Varia to read as intriguingly radical.

 

[Peklo]

Samus Returns was always one of my favourite games in the series and while I can see why it ain’t everyone’s cup of tea, I’ve always been surprised at how dismissive of it everyone is

It really depends on where you look and the people you talk to. I can assure that crotchety opinions like mine are overall in the minority, as Samus Returns is commonly viewed as the "return to form" people had idealized as being surely inevitable after a decade of drought with the series. There's also the crucial angle of it being based on Metroid II, the least-loved game in the series; however relative a statement that is, it informed the remake's perception as being something necessary--the weird, odd game out must be brought in line with the rest, adopting the overarching style and priorities. The narrative that persists now is that if Samus Returns was flawed in some way, it was due to the source material not measuring up; commentary on its individual decisions is overshadowed by the ostensible weight that the original game imposed on its potential merits. It's still seen as a success in updating the outdated, as having made its parentage redundant and superfluous, and a neat inclusion into the canonized series playthrough to-do-lists in its stead, much as Zero Mission has been viewed. It did what it set out to do, in this industry and media landscape that prizes the new and vilifies the old, simply by existing--it doesn't really matter how good or bad it was at doing it.

 

[Exposition Owl]

In an interview, Sakamoto says that Dread’s
environments “will return to the more open approach of Super Metroid.”

More here.

 

[Lokii]

Hey something I've noticed in Samus Returns is your regular shots get stronger as you go. Anyone know what drives this? It's not beam upgrades. It might be metroid DNA or maybe number of missile upgrades? Map percentage???

 

[conchobhar]

I don't know if this is the general Metroid thread now, but it feels silly to make new one.

(taps the sign)

Always Make the Thread, or "No More Thread Shortages"

One of our goals in this new incarnation of Talking Time is to use the fresh start as an opportunity to improve the quality of the discourse. One example of this is to abolish the tradition of the "not worth its own thread" thread. While such a thread may serve a valid use in theory, in...

talking-time.net

 

[chud_666]

Zeirams a good comparison, but I was thinking more like Guyver. Or that art Fredde posted.

The Dark Suit in Prime 2 looks like the Guyver!

 

[Zef]

Honestly I'd like the series to take a look at the Motorcycle Suit and the Lightbulb Suit from Prime 2 and go even further with increasingly weirder, but still thematically appropriate, suits. I like the actual Metroid-themed suit from the fanarts linked above but it only highlights that Samus should now be able to siphon energy from ordinary fauna just by latching on to it.

One of my disappointments with Prime 3 (I didn't have many, but this was one of the top ones) was that it hardly took any risks with the new suit, and it's basically the only one you get for the whole game. An actual "Corruption"-themed Varia should've veered into a Dark Samus look towards the endgame, at least

EDIT: OK, I take it back, the PED Suit does do more than just add a glowing cross to the chest and swap the big ol' shoulders for smaller gray ones. There's also a whole new color scheme and streamlining that Metroid 5 is following up on. But still, the silhouette doesn't change all that much and I'd still like more bold experimentation.

 

[Octopus Prime]

The Dark Suit in Prime 2 looks like the Guyver!

It looks like the midway point between Guyver and a Decepticon.

Which is also extremely rad, but not the direction I was looking for.

…I guess Dark Samus is basically what I wanted

 

[Zef]

For reference, the Prime suits:

 

[Octopus Prime]

I suppose the Light Suit is pretty Guyver-y

 

[gogglebob]

Mentions of Dark Samus reminds me that Smash Bros. arguably has more distinctly Metroid Prime representation (Meta Ridley [costume] and Dark Samus) than "regular" Metroid.

 

[chud_666]

For reference, the Prime suits:

I love the suits in Prime 2. Both Light and Dark suit look wild. The weird Prime 3 suit, I'm less excited about

 

[Zef]

One of my favorite aspects of the Light Suit is that the four bulbs in the chest glow like flashlights. It also feels like an organic machine, completely opposite to the industrial look of the Dark Suit.

Though I guess it also has the smaller shoulderballs that have since become a trend.

Also, Dark Samus from Echoes to Corruption, for further reference:

 

[Patrick]

I either forgot or never noticed that Dark Samus started out with toes. Creepy! I'm glad that version didn't make it into Smash.

 

[chud_666]

I think the real thing we gotta address is, that as an independent contractor, Samus doesn't get any health insurance from the Federation. I imagine contorting into a ball would require a decent health spending account for chiropractor appointments.

 

[Purple]

I'm reminded of these excellent old fanarts someone did of what Samus should look like after Fusion.

... OK but for real if you look on the hard drive of whatever computer I was using in 1990-whatever you will find a poorly drawn picture of exactly this and it legitimately freaks me out on how many people, including Nintendo, were basically on this same page.

The simpler thing to do of course is to just go "oh, there are in fact other Metroids besides that one we thought was the last one" or "I mean half the Zelda games don't have Zelda in them at all, don't get all hung up on these things."

Also since Dread IS apparently going "oh, we missed some" I really want Dan Owsen to record "Oh, and these other ones." and compress it to hell.

 

[Peklo]

I don't think they're ever going to go as far as I'd want them to with the Metroid DNA gestalt organism that Samus has nominally become. It's going to be limited to external accoutrements and stylization, at the slightest best some kind of stylish, rarely seen vein pattern on the surface of her skin, but still essentially and practically human... I'd be pushing for a traumatic but life-changing bodily transformation akin to Cronenberg's The Fly; I want the Aran Museum of Natural History and the wistful vestiges of her former existence enshrined or discarded in it. And that's why I don't make any sort of decisions that direct this series.