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Let's Die One Last Time: LttP Dark Souls III

Ludendorkk

(he/him)
Dark Sword is still pretty good, as is the Estoc despite multiple nerfs. Any of the dual-wield weapons are pretty fun
 
DS III is where From got too cute with the boss difficulty. I will contend that Shadows of Yharnam gave me legit trauma, but at least there I could see that I jyst had a hump I needed to get over. With Dark Souls III they kept the speedy, aggressive bosses but forgot the quick moveset from Bloodborne that kept those fights balanced. And shields in DS3 suck on toast.

The huge userbase is the only reason I got through the final boss.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
I haven't played it since shortly after the DLC2 release (which I never finished - I should go back to clear the game out, especially if there are still people to summon to help through the tougher bosses). My first build was I think strength-weapons and/or pyromancy, which I don't remember very well—I vaguely remember that it was OK, but not many of the spells were as effective as they could've/should've been (which is common for a lot of DS magic).

My second build was a sorcerer and I had a lot of fun with that. I made an int rapier or estoc until I got the crystal sage rapier and went all-in on spells; iirc it was quite powerful overall, but you need a lot of specific gear to get a blaster build to that point: 3-4 rings and dusk crown headgear to boost your spells. I know I got someone (Alixsar, actually) to drop me some gear early on—an estoc and the xanthous armor set I wore all game (sans helmet of course)—but I can't remember if that included the rings and such or if I had to pick them up along the way.

I remember doing half a playthrough with a lightning build but it basically required endgame spells and gear so it was only worth doing on NG+. But one thing I do like about DS3 (and DS2) is that you can respec, so that's an option—start a new run with all the gear and spells you need for X build sitting in your bank, then respec into it.
 
Is magic in this game worthwhile at all? I actually restarted as a Knight once I realized you have to split up Estus between health and magic, which feels like a system that's all downside for magic users unless it's incredibly OP. I think this is the first time I've ever done a pure melee build in one of these games...
It is, but as already said it's definitely weaker overall to encourage the weapon arts. The big thing is that you get more Estus charges faster than in DS2, 15 in total split between the two types. Another difference is that killing enemies that use magic has a chance to refill a charge of the Ashen flask.

DS3 did teach me that I prefer MP over charge systems in action-oriented games so I personally like the change a lot, even with a casting focused build.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
What are some of the better weapon arts? If I go back to play again I'll probably do a weapon-art focused build since I haven't done that yet, but I remember from early experimentation that not all of them were equally good...
 
Bloodlust's skill works like Alonne's Bewitched sword from the DS2 DLC where you sacrifice health (and take some bleed build-up) for a buff, and the buff is huge. Downside is Bloodlust itself isn't especially good without the buff. Several of the other katanas also have a parry as part of their Hold skill which is a lot more generous than parrying normally in games after Dark 1 if you get the hang of it.

The Dragonslayer and Onislayer greatbows can pierce through enemies with the skill to hit anything behind them too.

Any of the weapons that just cause the weapon to light up with an added element are just flat out good. Profaned Greatsword from dual-wielder mcgetfucked is one of the best Quality build weapons in the game and it just becomes better. Two of the other REALLY good ones are from the Ashes of Ariendel DLC, one of which is a dark-element greatsword and the other is from the final boss soul.

Moonlight Greatsword has a new kickass magical thrust attack in addition to its traditional projectile.

The skills called Perseverance and Stomp mostly found on a bunch of 2-handed weapons (also notably on the Cestus) is where the Poise mechanic went. People ages ago "found out" that poise is turned off by default in the game files but were very reluctant to acknowledge these are two of the things in the game that flip the switch to turn poise on during the skill. It's functionally very similar to how some heavy weapon attacks in Dark 2 had hyperarmor.

The biggest baddest boss which is also optional in the final DLC has one of the strongest PAIR of skills in the game, if you're a dex build (optimally with stats for scaling up Dark damage). It's a version of the Katana hold stance where the light attack does a flurry almost guaranteed to proc bleed, and the strong attack is a ground-based ranged attack that like MLG's projectile can hit together with the attack launching it to stack the damage if you do it up close.

Pretty much any weapon with a spin to win skill is amazing because of it. Most noteworthy imo are the Gothard Dual Swords and Demon Fists. I'm not sure if this applies to all of them, but at least some of the spin to win weapons can use the skill without FP, but it'll be a worse version of it.

Warpick and Pickaxe if you really want to use them give you a temporary stamina regeneration buff.

Most axes give you the Warcry ability which is a damage buff (which does not stack with other weapon buffs) that stuns close enemies and also unlocks a special heavy attack string while it's active, and can be used without FP but you lose the damage buff and stun.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
The skills called Perseverance and Stomp mostly found on a bunch of 2-handed weapons (also notably on the Cestus) is where the Poise mechanic went. People ages ago "found out" that poise is turned off by default in the game files but were very reluctant to acknowledge these are two of the things in the game that flip the switch to turn poise on during the skill. It's functionally very similar to how some heavy weapon attacks in Dark 2 had hyperarmor.

Just to elaborate on this a bit, poise in Dark Souls 3 is only active during certain attacks. It's actually a lot more common than just Stomp and Perseverance; hammers, greatswords, and non-spear pole weapons use poise during their 2 handed attacks, while pretty much any of the "heavy" weapons (ultra greatswords and the like) use poise even 1 handed. Certain weapon arts also use poise, like the R2 Stance attack on most straight swords.

Without getting too deep into the details, poise reduces the amount of "stagger" damage you take from enemy attacks when making attacks of your own. If an enemy's attacks outdamage the "stagger threshold" of your weapon, your attack is interrupted. Generally, the heavier the weapon or the stronger the attack, the higher this threshold is.
 
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Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
I just remembered that I had started a run trying a frost build after getting the scythe and spell from DLC1, but I can't remember if I played enough with it to notice it being any good, or if I did play enough to realize it sucked.

Also with DLC1 stuff, I was doing a run or messing around with the raven claws (not the rapier version, which is awesome, but with the double-claws, which are also awesome) and the cool black armor with gold trim that the NPC there had. I remember wanting to do a thing with DLC2 gear too, like the ringed deathstalker armor and/or weapons... Been too long, can't remember any details.
 
One thing I've noticed about the community in DS3 (on PC at least) is that messages seem much less comprehensive. In DS1 and especially DS2, playing online is basically like playing with an extremely hand-holdy guide. I basically never think, "Oh, I should add a message." In DS3, I want to add messages all the time. I wonder what's up with this. I think DS2 has a very high level of messages because there's so much ridiculous stuff in it (invisible enemies, petrified enemies/NPCs with limited de-petrification consumables, a bajillion places to put limited lockstones, etc.). Maybe the general linearity of DS3 has the opposite effect, making people less inclined to add warnings when they'd definitely be there in other games. Hmmm.
 
Storm King/Nameless King is fantastic Fromsoft setpiece boss battle, and a great example of the general high quality of both gimmick- and traditional combat skills-based bosses in DS3. You've got a first phase where the usual "run around and hit the legs" strategy for dragons doesn't work, so you end up having a kind of Zelda boss fight where you have to dodge both dragon and rider for a while, then hit the dragon's head during brief openings when it's vulnerable. It's also relatively short on health, so once you learn it you can blaze through it to get to the second phase. Then, you have a good old fashioned fight against a big humanoid with fair tells but who will wreck you if you misread them. Great stuff.

(Yes, I absolutely used a guide to figure out how to get to the Nameless King area. I've been steamrolling everything post Evil Pope Dual Wielding and it seemed like I was approaching the end so I checked to see what big optional stuff I missed.)
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I feel like the farther you go in the series, the more troll-y the messages generally become (illusory wall messages where there are none, etc.)
 

Alixsar

The Shogun of Harlem
(He/him)
Late to the party, but magic is totally viable. I did my traditional "beat it with weapons only, then beat the 2nd time as a rapier wielding/magic using character" and I had no problems whatsoever, except one boss in particular who is strong against magic and I had to call in Paul to help me beat it (who was using fire, which it's weak to, which killed it in like 1 minute). But other than that? Magic is pretty busted, as always. Don't listen to people on the internet who gripe about how WELL ACTUALLY MAGIC WAS MORE BUSTED IN DS1. Yes, we know. It's still viable though! Less viable does not mean unviable. It's still quite strong.

DS III is where From got too cute with the boss difficulty. I will contend that Shadows of Yharnam gave me legit trauma, but at least there I could see that I jyst had a hump I needed to get over. With Dark Souls III they kept the speedy, aggressive bosses but forgot the quick moveset from Bloodborne that kept those fights balanced. And shields in DS3 suck on toast.

The huge userbase is the only reason I got through the final boss.

I kinda had the opposite reaction, where after playing Bloodborne to death, I thought the bosses in DS3 were moving in slow motion. YMMV. The final DLC boss (the Dragon, though Gael is also good) in DS3 nearly gave me a heart attack though, for what it's worth. It's a really intense fight.

What makes shields worse in your opinion? Obviously I don't use them so I can't really comment.
 

Patrick

Magic-User
(He/Him)
The final DLC boss (the Dragon, though Gael is also good) in DS3 nearly gave me a heart attack though, for what it's worth.
I gave up on both final bosses in the last DLC. I just wasn’t having fun. I didn’t have trouble with the ones in the base game though, and I generally thought they were a highlight of the game. The DLC just pushed the difficulty a bit too far for me.
 

zonetrope

(he/him)
My experience with Bloodborne was that the Shadows of Yharnam was a huge difficulty hump, then everything after that was pretty breezy (at least, by Souls standards). The bosses in DS3 gave me a lot of trouble straight through the entire game, though it might just be because they had tons of HP.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
I used shields and I don't remember thinking they sucked, just that they weren't nearly as strong as DS1's shields (I forget what DS2's were like). My first time through DS1 I used the grass crest shield and so learned that shields weren't that great, but in a later run when I used an Actual Shield (silver knight, ultimately, iirc) I found that they could be quite protective indeed. And then much later I tried the Artorias Greatshield which actually broke the game. It could literally block anything. I just sat there and blocked Gwyn and my stamina barely budged. Manus, Kalameet, Artorias, all of them. None of them could scratch that thing (Though of course there are unblockable and/or tricky attacks still, but...yeah).

In my first NG+ of DS3 I used Yhorm's Greatshield and it was pretty beefy iirc, though of course that's a greatshield and it was NG+.
 
(I forget what DS2's were like).
They're extremely worse for like, half the game where you're stuck with a thick leather plate on your arm as your best option (unless you start as a knight iirc) before you start getting good shields, and even the best shields were tuned down to have lower defenses/stability than in Dark 1. And good lord the parrying in Dark 2 was awful. HOWEVER. Dark 2 gave us the Orma and Reeve greatshields so you can slam interlocking shields together as your primary weapon. It doesn't have the shock factor the Dark 1 Bonewheel hit us with, but it is very satisfying.

-edit- though thinking more I think I forgot about two early 100% physical defense shields? One is very early, the other isn't quite as early and is far too heavy for most builds that early.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
They're extremely worse for like, half the game where you're stuck with a thick leather plate on your arm as your best option (unless you start as a knight iirc) before you start getting good shields, and even the best shields were tuned down to have lower defenses/stability than in Dark 1. And good lord the parrying in Dark 2 was awful. HOWEVER. Dark 2 gave us the Orma and Reeve greatshields so you can slam interlocking shields together as your primary weapon. It doesn't have the shock factor the Dark 1 Bonewheel hit us with, but it is very satisfying.

-edit- though thinking more I think I forgot about two early 100% physical defense shields? One is very early, the other isn't quite as early and is far too heavy for most builds that early.
I need to play DS2 again, but only if I can use the Orma and Reeve shields for my build.

Also, though they're not Orma and Reeve, DS3's last DLC had a greatshield that was a pair of doors that worked very similarly. I would definitely accept a set of those to do a build with.
 
I think DS1 has the most OP shields because of the extremely early availability and low stat requirements of Heater Shield, but other than that I feel like DS1-3 all have the exact same shield progression:

Early game: A good shield means you are invulnerable
Mid-game: A good shield makes you a lot safer, but you might need to invest in strength and carry weight to use one with enough stability to be worthwhile
Late-game: Unless you've gone all-in on a build to use one of the best shields, you're probably better off dodging

I'm still finding shields to be extremely viable fairly late in DS3, but I'm assuming there will be a DLC boss that will force me to dodge only later. (If this isn't the case... I'd say that DS3 shields are if anything more viable than in 1 or 2.)

In DS2, my last playthrough was a Sorceror, and while it's true that the best shield you can realistically equip for a long time is the Large Leather Shield, the Large Leather Shield is actually pretty great! It cuts 90% of physical damage, doesn't weigh that much, and has low stat requirements. It looks kind of stupid, but if you want to not take very much damage while ignoring strength and carry weight for a while, it absolutely works.
 
I thought I'd be way overlevelled finally doing the snow area so late after it opened up, and I guess I technically must be given how few souls the enemies reward you with, but it's a bit of a slog still. It seems to follow all the worst parts of Scholar of the First Sin style encounter design. This feels worse to me than anything actually in DS2:SofFS, which for the most part I really enjoyed.
 

Patrick

Magic-User
(He/Him)
Yeah, sorry. The DSIII DLCs are both slogs. They look cool, but I really dislike playing them.
 
Yeah, sorry.

It's definitely not your fault!

Magic is pretty busted, as always.

Okay, good. Splitting up the Estus flasks instead of having spell charges put me off of it and also I think magic is a lot easier to do on a 2nd playthrough where you better understand your access to the relevant merchants, but someday I'll hopefully come back and give that a go. It was my favorite way to play through DS1 and 2. (Technically I also used magic on my first playthrough of Demon's Souls but I had no idea what I was doing, so my favorite playthrough ended up being a mace cleric... I should probably go back to that sometime to try magic now that I understand how these games work...)
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
I thought the areas were okay! Fine, at least? The final boss of the snow one and all the bosses of the city one are wicked hard though, which I did not enjoy.
 
I started playing this game three years ago and still have not beat it — put it aside for a while at the final boss fight, then picked it up to do the final DLC, then put it away again for a while.

I should really get around to finishing that last fight, but the guy just keeps wrecking me: That long time away has left me so rusty.
 
The first two phases of Sister Freide aren't that bad, but I feel like you have to be pretty slow and careful in the second phase to stay back and only take safe hits since it's 2 on 1, so it makes it kind of tedious to learn the third.
 
The first two phases of Sister Freide aren't that bad, but I feel like you have to be pretty slow and careful in the second phase to stay back and only take safe hits since it's 2 on 1, so it makes it kind of tedious to learn the third.

I did it! Zero Estus left, tiny sliver of health. I really think the third phase at least should have been a DS2 final boss gauntlet style thing where the defeated phases stay dead. I don't think any phase of Friede is actually that much worse than a standard DS3 boss, it's just artificially difficult because it's a hassle to practice. The third phase has a lot of moves that will one-shot you if you don't already know the tells and very few opportunities to safely punish (pretty much just the jumping attacks and also the invisible grab wind-up time where she'll reappear if you successfully track track movements?), which isn't itself that out of the ordinary for the series, but by the time you get to phase three it's hard to keep patient until phases one and two become dull through repetition.

For me, the most important strategy for this boss was probably nothing about the tells themselves and more along the lines of: "Only play for ~15 minute sessions so you don't get too frustrated/impatient."

The area after Friede is very cool!

edit: evil pope still the hardest boss in this game so far, imho, just because your build is less likely to be complete at that point in time than by the endgame/postgame (maybe less of a problem on a second playthrough so you can keep that difficulty spike in mind as you allocate stats and decide how/when to spend upgrade materials on what?)
 
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Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
EvilPope was one of the hardest bosses for me the first time through, but on subsequent playthroughs felt a lot more manageable for some reason, whereas e.g. Nameless held his position near the top of the list very firmly. Maybe it was just having better builds, or just a better idea of what I was in for, but the same could be true for all bosses and some stayed as hard as ever... I'd need to go back through the list and try to remember them one by one to be sure.
 
DLC Dragon is probably my most severe transition from "this is unfair, this game sucks" to "this is a great boss" in the history of the series. The trick for me was realizing that both Nameless King phase one and DLC Dragon are both an attempt to create dragon bosses with a strategy other than "run around and hit them in their back legs," which always did feel a little silly. Here, they create two different types of dragons that react very negatively to anything other than a head-on confrontation, so you have to unlearn instincts from Sinh and Kalameet. Once you do though, it's a pretty fair fight, I think. Forcing you into this kind of a head-on confrontation gives it a very different feel from those earlier fights, which in the end works on its own terms.

Gael was tough but extremely fair and had great visual design (both for himself over a few transformations and the arena), another highlight in DS3's extremely well designed fights against big knights. It's probably in part being used to the series, but I don't think Gael is any harder than Artorius or Sir Alonne from DS1 and 2. I think he's much easier to read and gives much more room to breathe than either of those, and it also helps that the bonfire is right next to the fog gate so you can retry immediately.

Ringed City is a very strong expansion. No idea what was going on with their approach to Ashes of Ariandel.

Just the final boss left now, excited to finish up tonight, unless I really struggle with it.
 
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Did not struggle with it so I was able to sneak in beating the game over lunch. Loved it, very fun setpiece to end the story proper. Every Demons' and Dark Souls game is good. Some boss rankings, from the perspective of a Hit Them With A Really Big Sword build:

Hardest Bosses

5. Twin Princes
The only boss that's on both Top 5 Hardest and Best for me. Mostly I don't like difficult bosses, but this is very good mechanically and thematically. I think the tells are fair, but I found it very easy to get flustered and make a dumb mistake when you have to dodge the melees attacks from one and spells from the other.

4. DLC Dragon
Discussed above. Very tough to learn, but in the end basically fair.

3. Iudex Gundyr
It happens before you can gain levels or significantly alter your build, and I think it's balanced way too hard for a boss fight at that point in the game. The camera goes too crazy after the transformation, and it's really hard to see. I think this boss is my least favorite thing about the game.

2. Sister Friede
Discussed earlier, but this is mostly because it gets tedious going through the first two phases. Overall I don't like this encounter, but I do think phase 2 is my favorite 2 on 1 battle in the series, if it was on its own, or even just paired with phase 1. Unfortunately, it's not! First two phases should stay dead.

1. Evil Pope
I can't parry, windows to punish here are extremely short, he doesn't stagger easily, and it feels like he has infinite stamina. It gets easier when he starts to summon the spirit double because you can catch him and the double in a big sword swing during the summon animation so you just get a bunch of free hits at that point and the double dies, prompting him to summon it again instead of doing more infinite stamina combos.

Best Bosses

5. Curse Rotted Greatwood
I don't really go into these games for difficulty. I like the atmosphere, and popping giant cursed rot sacs on a big tree along with a regenerating mob made for a great gimmick battle that's not overly difficult but extremely memorable.

4. Gael
3. Abyss Watchers
These two are a perfect example of the Dark Souls boss experience of feeling like you've walked into some terrible beyond human comprehension that you weren't meant to see, and now you're duty bound to end their eternal misery, but you feel kind of bad about getting involved at all. Mechanically, tough but fair fights against humanoids with clear tells.

2. Twin Princes
The teleportation and revival mechanics here come together to create an experience that feels very new despite being so late in the series. Wonderful narrative and atmosphere. Sometimes I think the spells are a smidge too hard to dodge, but I forgive it for being the second to last main narrative boss and probably the second hardest encounter of the critical path after Iudex Gundyr. Feels like the actual final boss of the story, and the final boss is more of a narrative event.

1. Nameless King
Discussed earlier. The apotheosis of DS3 boss fights, combining a great "gimmick" phase with a tough but fair humanoid battle. In retrospect, phase one also teaches you some of the rules for Midir. Defeating a dragon rider's dragon and then having a one-on-one fight afterwards while walking on clouds is just a cool encounter concept.

edit:

Just to elaborate on this a bit, poise in Dark Souls 3 is only active during certain attacks. It's actually a lot more common than just Stomp and Perseverance; hammers, greatswords, and non-spear pole weapons use poise during their 2 handed attacks, while pretty much any of the "heavy" weapons (ultra greatswords and the like) use poise even 1 handed. Certain weapon arts also use poise, like the R2 Stance attack on most straight swords.

Without getting too deep into the details, poise reduces the amount of "stagger" damage you take from enemy attacks when making attacks of your own. If an enemy's attacks outdamage the "stagger threshold" of your weapon, your attack is interrupted. Generally, the heavier the weapon or the stronger the attack, the higher this threshold is.

Definitely felt this system using this build, as I gradually made more and more investments to increase carry weight to have armor with more poise while wielding a big sword. Did a bunch of reading about the details of how this works last night, and apparently this system was really controversial but I think it's absolutely fair. I like the shift to poise being something that mostly activates during certain attacks from certain weapons, made it much less frustrating to fight other characters using big weapons, and I didn't feel significantly disadvantaged by it.

Patrick Klepek wrote a lot of articles about this (both pre- and post- a major patch to poise) that went viral at least within games spaces because even I remember them as a someone who hadn't seriously played these games yet, and after reading them yesterday in hindsight I think were not very good and probably confused a lot of people about this system, making it sound much more broken and obscure than it is. The early articles are excusable because no one understood the mechanics and they did in fact end up getting patched, but later on he way overstates the obscurity of the system. You wear heavier armor with more poise and swing bigger weapons, and your attacks are harder to interrupt. The system works!
 
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lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Asked my Souls-guru friend for build suggestions and, on his advice, started a playthrough the other day with Vordt's Great Hammer. This thing absolutely honks, but my problem ("problem") is that now I'm up to Pontiff Sulyvahn and I have to actually relearn how the fight works instead of just smashing through with brute force. The previous four bosses were all one-shots, but this one's gonna take some work.
 
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