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It'sa me, Kaizo Mario!

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Just rolled credits on Hyperion. Overall I think it was excellent, though not without some flaws. SilentSnake asked me for feedback, so I'm going to elaborate a little more here than I might otherwise. I'm gonna break this down into chunks to try and keep my thoughts organized.

Overworld: The overworld in this game is so good! AmperSam clearly put a ton of thought into their map, and it not only looks great but also is exciting to explore. Rather than doing the typical kaizo thing of having secret exits lead straight to a switch palace, in this game they lead you to brand new chunks of the map, with 3-5 levels to play before you reach the switch palace. Those levels are all generally built around a similar environmental theme which is reflected on the overworld map itself for those areas. It's just really well planned and executed. My only criticism here is that the switch palaces themselves are in dead ends on the map, so after you finish one you've got to backtrack to get to a new level. Not the biggest deal, but a little annoying at times.

Difficulty: Probably a notch or two below Akogare Mario World, with the caveat that the game expects you to have a solid grasp on the general vocabulary of kaizo tricks. You'll also need to be very comfortable with the various types of regrabs. But if you've cleared a few hacks already, there won't be anything you don't know how to do. The easiest levels (for me) took about 5-10 minutes, most of them somewhere around 20-40. The hardest levels could take an hour, with maybe one or two that I had to grind for 90 minutes or so. But I don't think any of them took longer than that. I did notice some occasional inconsistency in the difficulty from level to level. More than once I'd finish a hard exit after spending an hour or so, only to blow through the next two levels in 5-10 minutes each.

Level design/gameplay: In my first post about the game, I said the level design thus far had been on a scale of "Very Good to Excellent". Having finished it, I generally still feel that way, though I noticed a few things that could be improved. The biggest thing that stood out to me was checkpoint placement. There are some levels where it feels like the checkpoint doesn't come until 3/4 of the way through the level, and then the "second half" is much shorter than the first. Not every level is like that, but it happened enough times that I noticed. There are also a couple of levels that are really slow to play through, even though they're well-designed. To me those are significantly more frustrating, because it feels like each death is that much more punishing.

But please don't get me wrong! Aside from that paragraph I had a pretty hard time finding faults in the game. Most of the levels are a blast to play. Just like the overworld, it's obvious that AmperSam really put in a lot of time polishing things. If I didn't know, I never would've guessed this was their first hack. Everything is so detailed and consistent. A lot of the levels are really memorable, which isn't always something you can say about the hacks I've played so far. The chocolate elements are pretty unobtrusive, which means that most of the time the hack still feels like Mario. To me, that's important.

Lore: arguably the part of any kaizo hack that most players care the least about. I liked how the game gives you a vague intro screen and lets you essentially make your own story, though I had no idea who or what the final boss was supposed to be. I guess it doesn't really matter that much, but I'm curious about what AmperSam intended.

Soundtrack: it ruled. Shout-out to Koyaanisqatsi.

So yeah! Fantastic hack, can't wait to see what AmperSam comes up with next. They're clearly a very talented and thoughtful creator and I hope they've got more hacks planned. I really want Hyperion to become part of the kaizo canon. Granted, I've only played a tiny fraction of what's out there, but I really feel like this one should be played by everyone at some point.
 

SilentSnake

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Excellent, can't wait to play it eventually!

Super Hark Bros. is going extremely well. After that first rude jump, everything else feels so cleanly designed. I don't know if it's just me getting better, but there were entire stretches where I one-shotted everything, and it felt really good to clutch those tricks out. Not that the game is easy, mind. It feels like a little step up in difficulty from the Quickie Worlds complete with meaner trolls, though not in a bad way. There was one set of tricks I was extremely proud to nail that included a betrayer into a shell jump into a bat bop. All in all, I'm liking the design of this kaizo more than any I've played before. Y'all should definitely give it a look (after looking up the first jump, because wow you'll never get it otherwise).
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Nice, maybe I'll have to check out Hark Bros next then!

It's funny, there are so many hacks now and so few of them get wider amounts of attention, so it can be hard to know what's worth playing sometimes. I caught Mike on stream last night and we were talking about this a little. That's actually what I was trying to get at when I said

I really want Hyperion to become part of the kaizo canon.

The hack is so good but I haven't really seen any of the bigger streamers talk about it, and I think that's a shame. I want it to get enough attention so that it ends up on the inevitable lists of "hacks every newer player should play". One can hope.

Anyway, we were also thinking that when you finish Hark Bros, you might want to move on to Little Mario World. For the most part it's maybe a little harder than the Quickie Worlds, with similar level length. The biggest step up in this game is that there are sometimes extremely specific regrabs you have to do, but past that I don't think there's anything you don't know how to do.
 

MCBanjoMike

Sudden chomper
(He/him)
I think the big problem is that the most popular streamers are all really good at kaizo, so they blow through the easier hacks in a day or two and move on to something else. Recent hacks like Let's Give Up and Casio Mario World gained more traction just by virtue of taking way longer for them to complete, if I had to guess.

Anyway, seconding Little Mario World. I'm having a lot of fun with it, aside from one level in the second world that I found to be fairly irritating. I've completed a dozen exits in a little under 4 hours so far, so it's a good bit easier than Take it Easy World was, but it still has teeth. And the levels have almost all been very well designed, with good visual and audio flair too.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
I think the big problem is that the most popular streamers are all really good at kaizo, so they blow through the easier hacks in a day or two and move on to something else. Recent hacks like Let's Give Up and Casio Mario World gained more traction just by virtue of taking way longer for them to complete, if I had to guess.
That's a part of it for sure. I also haven't seen any Hyperion videos on Youtube yet, which is the main way I watch this stuff. Even if a streamer like Juz or someone plays through the hack in one or two sittings, the Youtube video exists forever and can help spread awareness to an audience that might not watch streams at all.

Hyperion also isn't a very speedrun-friendly game (by design you pretty much have to 100% it), so there's maybe less incentive for streamers to replay it.

I guess at the end of the day the real issue is that anything in this scene lives or dies by word of mouth, so if a hack fails to gain traction quickly enough it just kinda...goes away.
 

SilentSnake

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I dunno, I feel like Hyperion has been steadily gaining ground. It's in the most downloaded list months after release, so that should say something.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
So I'm a decent chunk of the way into Hark Bros (I think I have maybe 5 exits to go?) and to be honest, I haven't enjoyed it that much. Not every level is like this, but the first two have a lot of "hurry up and wait" built into their design, and that's really not fun for me. This is going to sound like a weird criticism to level against a kaizo game, where it generally takes a while to clear a level, but I feel like the hack doesn't respect my time. The blue switch ghost house is a good example: at the start of the level, you're forced to literally do nothing and wait while a koopa turns around twice, and then the very next thing you do is wait for a shell to pass you by (twice!) and hit a switch behind you. There's no checkpoint in that level either, so every time you die you're forced to wait for those two very slow jumps again.

It's not all bad, and there are some cool levels (the one where you turn moles into saws via On/Off switches is a standout). I don't think I've spent more than 20 minutes on any given exit. I probably will finish it, because it's a different style of level design from other hacks I've played, and I think there's still value in that. But overall I'm ready to move on.
 

SilentSnake

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Up to 12 of 16 exits in Super Hark Bros done. I still feel really strongly that I like the way the levels flow and allows me to clutch out some nice strings of tricks first try. The trolls in the levels are more mischievous than anything, which I can appreciate. I also like how the game is paced so that it's not a constantly increasing curve of difficulty being ratcheted up, but rather will give you some chill levels after a couple of hard ones. (Funny enough, the Bait and Switch ghost house is one of my least favorite because it was such a wall for me.) And as for the hurry and wait thing, I appreciate how this game gives me a moment to breathe in between tricks, a moment for my brain to catch up. I know that this game is a small step up from the Quickie games in difficulty, but there's a lot here I'm nailing pretty quickly. I don't know how much of that is the level design and how much is me getting better, but the game has been great for my self-confidence in kaizo.
 

SilentSnake

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Super Hark Bros. is done! I think overall it's a bit more inconsistent than the Quickie Worlds, and yet this ended up being my favorite hack so far. The level design just flows really well, and I could tell I'm better than I was when I first started. Also the trolls were cute.

And now I will give in to peer pressure and start Little Mario World.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Yep, done with Hark Bros too. I wish I'd liked it as much as you did! I will admit that the back half of the hack generally felt better to me than the early levels. I liked the damage boost level and the one where you have to purposely hit the kaizo blocks especially, and the final castle was also pretty fun...except for that last kaizo block.

I'm not sure what to play next!
 

SilentSnake

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I'm not sure what to play next!

Might you be ready for Invictus?

If not, a couple of other options that just came out are Quest for Corgi Butts and Unintended Behavior. The former seems about as difficult as Hyperion with the exception of a very challenging last shell level. The latter is more puzzley but definitely still in the kaizo wheelhouse. Both look pretty good from just me watching some of them.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
I have Invictus downloaded, but I'm still a little scared of it! Good call about Quest for Corgi Butts though, I saw GlitchCat playing some of that a week or two ago and it looked pretty cool. I think I'll give that a go.

From what I can make of Unintended Behavior's SMWC page, it seems like it's built around glitches? I might take a look later, but I'm not sure if I'll know how to actually finish a lot of those levels!
 

MCBanjoMike

Sudden chomper
(He/him)
Give me another week to finish Little Mario World and maybe we can start Invictus at the same time. You know, buddy system and all that. I'm up to the special world in LMW, although it's got a lot of exits if I recall correctly.

Might not be able to play for a couple days, renovations are ramping up here and it's going to be a gigantic mess until the weekend. Bleah.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Give me another week to finish Little Mario World and maybe we can start Invictus at the same time. You know, buddy system and all that. I'm up to the special world in LMW, although it's got a lot of exits if I recall correctly.

I'm down for a buddy system playthrough! I can work on Quest for Corgi Butts in the meantime. There's actually only two stages in the LMW special world proper, then past them there's the fake ending level and the real final level. You're nearly there! Those two special levels are pretty tough, though.

Whenever you're ready for Invictus, it's worth noting that SMWC only has the 1.0 version, but you can get version 1.1 from Juz's Discord (or me, if you don't want to jump through that hoop). I'm not sure why the update never made it to SMWC, or what exactly was changed, but I've seen mention of some "luck-based things" being corrected. Figured it was worth having the latest version for that.

Hope your renovations go smoothly!
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Quest for Corgi Butts is hard! Way harder than I expected. The early stages were pretty short (like, QW level-length), but they're getting longer now that I'm in the second world. I just spent over an hour grinding half a level, which is exactly what I'd hoped I was done with.

The level in question is a "keep the mushroom" level, but alongside the obligatory ice physics you also spend most of the level upside down thanks to some gravity-flip blocks. And then you have to do a frame perfect block grab, without stopping, while you're upside down. And all of this just to get to the checkpoint.

There are a lot of cool things going on in the other levels I've played so far, but I just wasn't expecting it to be like this. I'm gonna keep at it, but that ice level is really no fun.
 
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SilentSnake

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So I'm enjoying my time with Little Mario World, but I can't help but feel like what I've already played does what this game does better. Like, the Quickies introduce more fundamentals, while Hark is just a better, more varied experience overall imo, but this is mostly iterations on hop and bop basics. Don't get me wrong, I like it - the way it makes levels feel more than left-to-right affairs is appreciated - but I think it's merely "good" rather than "great". I just made it past the Doom level, so there's probably more to it and I like it enough to get to the end. But yeah, I think this will be my last beginner kaizo before I move on to slightly harder things.
Quest for Corgi Butts is hard! Way harder than I expected. The early stages were pretty short (like, QW level-length), but they're getting longer now that I'm in the second world. I just spent over an hour grinding half a level, which is exactly what I'd hoped I was done with.

The level in question is a "keep the mushroom" level, but alongside the obligatory ice physics you also spend most of the level upside down thanks to some gravity-flip blocks. And then you have to do a frame perfect block grab, without stopping, while you're upside down. And all of this just to get to the checkpoint.

There are a lot of cool things going on in the other levels I've played so far, but I really wasn't expecting it to be like this. I'm gonna keep at it, but that ice level is really no fun.
Oof, sorry to hear that. I mostly was suggesting based on what I've seen people playing, so I apologize if I suggested something harder than what you were looking for.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Oof, sorry to hear that. I mostly was suggesting based on what I've seen people playing, so I apologize if I suggested something harder than what you were looking for.

Not your fault at all, no apology necessary! I honestly thought it was going to be on the easier side, even the SMWC description says it's "a little harder than baby" which I assumed meant Baby Kaizo World, but it's definitely tougher than that.

Despite the complaints in my last post I've mostly been having a good time with it, cursed upside down ice level notwithstanding. Hopefully once I get through that one things will pick up again.

So I'm enjoying my time with Little Mario World, but I can't help but feel like what I've already played does what this game does better. Like, the Quickies introduce more fundamentals, while Hark is just a better, more varied experience overall imo, but this is mostly iterations on hop and bop basics. Don't get me wrong, I like it - the way it makes levels feel more than left-to-right affairs is appreciated - but I think it's merely "good" rather than "great". I just made it past the Doom level, so there's probably more to it and I like it enough to get to the end. But yeah, I think this will be my last beginner kaizo before I move on to slightly harder things.

That's a totally fair assessment. I was thinking this would be a good hack for you to pick up because it was similar to ones you've already played, but maybe you're ready to move on from (mostly) vanilla hacks? The Doom level is the halfway point for 100%, and it's also a pretty big difficulty spike. (For me it was also the least fun.) I will say that there's at least one level coming up that will introduce you to a mechanic you may not have experienced too much yet, so it's worth finishing if you're still enjoying things. And if you haven't been having too much trouble with any of the hacks you've played so far, you're definitely ready to tackle Hyperion after this one.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Quest for Corgi Butts is...basically done? The final 100% level is an intentionally bonkers shell level, and it's beyond my ability to play right now. You spawn in mid-air, and you immediately have to grab a shell, throw it up, do a falling bump shell jump off another shell, grab a third shell and throw it into a spike pit and immediately jump off of that to continue. And this all happens in the span of about a second. I spent a few minutes trying it, but I only got it by accident so far.

I'm not sure if the proper timestamp will embed in this video, so if not, skip to 27:30 to see the level in question:


I'm not sure if I'll come back to that level or not. It's kind of a shame, because outside of that, the last levels in the game were actually all pretty fun. Nothing was too hard (except for one jump in the second switch palace), and there were some really cool mechanics. One of the levels uses the sprite-freezing clocks from the end of Grand Poo World 2, which was really neat to play with in a less extreme context. It honestly feels like all of the levels in the final world could've been in the first world. Even the one special level before the shell one was much easier than some of the ones that came before it. If you were to graph the game's difficulty, it would basically be a bell curve.

Overall there was a lot in this hack that I really liked, but also several spots that felt extra difficult for no real reason. The cool levels outweighed the frustrating ones by far, but the frustrating ones were really frustrating. I get the sense that the creator has a lot of good ideas and understands how to make a good level, but they don't have enough experience to make a really cohesive game yet.

I took a peek at Unintended Behavior, but as expected I immediately had no idea what I was supposed to do. That hack is clearly for people with a much deeper understanding of obscure SMW mechanics than me. Maybe...maybe it's Invictus time? It still scares me, but I don't think there'll be a point otherwise where I say "Okay, I'm definitely ready for this," which probably means I should just go for it.
 

MCBanjoMike

Sudden chomper
(He/him)
If you're willing to wait a couple of days, I'll be right there with you for Invictus! Just gotta put the special world of Little Mario to bed. The construction is ongoing here, but happily the office has been spared, so I'm hoping to get back into kaizo tonight or tomorrow.
 

SilentSnake

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Staff member
Moderator
First, let me share my neat gaming gloves that just arrived! These will definitely save my hands when playing more involved kaizo. Also pride themed!
gloves.jpg
I've been inching my way through more Little Mario World. The game definitely gets harder past the Doom level, and La Sala de Machinas is just an incredibly good level, with a lot of nuanced stuff required with regrabs, sliding, and P-speed. *chef kiss* I'm trying to get the regular exit in Woxic's Snakeybus right now, which is requiring some really tricky spin jumps. Good stuff.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
I'm trying to get the regular exit in Woxic's Snakeybus right now, which is requiring some really tricky spin jumps. Good stuff.

I liked that level, but the second half took me a while. That single tile snake block is tricky! I really liked the switch palace you get after the secret exit, too.

Also, what exactly do those gloves do for you? Asking for a friend with an RSI (me) who's never heard of anything like that.

If you're willing to wait a couple of days, I'll be right there with you for Invictus! Just gotta put the special world of Little Mario to bed. The construction is ongoing here, but happily the office has been spared, so I'm hoping to get back into kaizo tonight or tomorrow.

I'm most likely going to get started on it tomorrow, but I also probably won't get too far, so don't feel like I'm gonna zoom ahead of you or anything. Also, I know you're planning to use Hyperion as a lighter hack to switch to when Invictus gets tough, but I'm really excited for you to play Hyperion.
 

SilentSnake

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Also, what exactly do those gloves do for you? Asking for a friend with an RSI (me) who's never heard of anything like that.
According to the site, "the moisture-wicking compression fabric increases blood flow, reduces muscle fatigue, and boosts your overall performance." They also have wrist straps that stabilizes your wrists. My hands were starting to hurt a bit doing this, and Amethyst uses them, so I figured I'd try these. If nothing else, they look cool and cost a lot less than a gaming chair haha.

The site is here if you want to look. I also got a promo code from Skybilz's Twitch page which gave me a discount.

 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Doesn't look like something useful for my particular issues, but thanks for the link and the info!
 

MCBanjoMike

Sudden chomper
(He/him)
Pushed onwards in Little Mario World and I've made it to the Pepper Grinder level...which I kind of hate. There was some really good stuff in the Special World - the brewery level in particular was really good IMO. I had to look up the answer to the secret after the end of GG, and honestly it seems kinda like bullshit to me? No idea how you're supposed to figure that out using the information that you're given. Anyway, now I'm at what I assume is the ultimate platforming challenge in the hack and I'm not having a good time with it. The bit where you bop the chuck, go up and over, then come back down and land on him seems really hard to make consistent. Hopefully I'll make some more progress tomorrow, because I want to put this hack to bed. It's a bit of a downer to end on a level that I'm not enjoying, though.
 

SilentSnake

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So I'm pretty much where you're at, and I've gotta say, I'm confused at the puzzle as well. Octavio said that the same music that's in the hint room is in the brewery, but did I just not find the hint room? Some galaxy brain shit happening with that one.

I'm going to hold off on the Pepper Grinder until tomorrow, but once that's done I'll move on to Hyperion.
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the puzzle either, but I had no shame in just looking up the answer. Who's got the time? I came to kick shells and jump on things, often also shells.

Anyway, now I'm at what I assume is the ultimate platforming challenge in the hack and I'm not having a good time with it. The bit where you bop the chuck, go up and over, then come back down and land on him seems really hard to make consistent. Hopefully I'll make some more progress tomorrow, because I want to put this hack to bed. It's a bit of a downer to end on a level that I'm not enjoying, though.

If it's any consolation, I also didn't enjoy the first half of that level very much, but I think the second half is more fun. As for that Chuck, there's a pretty easy way to make it consistent if you want to know: hold jump all the way down, don't regrab. For what it's worth, I do think that jump is pretty bullshit since there's no way to really know outside of trial and error.

So I'm pretty much where you're at, and I've gotta say, I'm confused at the puzzle as well. Octavio said that the same music that's in the hint room is in the brewery, but did I just not find the hint room? Some galaxy brain shit happening with that one.

Did you find the exit in GG?
 

lincolnic

can stop, will stop
(he/him)
Welp, it's been over half an hour and I can't even get past the first screen of the first level of Invictus with any consistency.

This...bodes poorly.

edit: an hour in and I can get past it maybe 50% of the time. ugh.
 
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MCBanjoMike

Sudden chomper
(He/him)
All right, I pulled it together and finished Little Mario World. As promised, the back half of Pepper Grinder wasn't as bad as the front, although there were still a few too many setups that depended on enemy spawns for my liking. The boss fight probably took me 15 minutes to complete, but I was a little frazzled. Overall, I really enjoyed most of the hack, with a few exceptions. DOOM level and Pepper Grinder were low spots for me, and it's never fun to finish a game on a low. Also, I really grew to hate the checkered death walls by the end of the game, they aren't visible enough and there are places where they feel totally superfluous. Kaizo makers in general seem obsessed with making every single surface in the game kill you, which I think kinda misses the point sometimes. Gripes aside, though, the platforming was really fun and there were some excellent palette and musical choices. Glad I played it, might come back to it some time when I'm in the mood for a lighter hack.

But for now, onwards and upwards...TO INVICTUS
Welp, it's been over half an hour and I can't even get past the first screen of the first level of Invictus with any consistency.

This...bodes poorly.
Ha! I've already spent a half hour dying endlessly to the first screen! This will be a cakewalk.
 
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