It'sa me, Kaizo Mario!

[SilentSnake]

The only other thing I'll say is that this game was my introduction to trolls, though they're way milder than most hacks due to the levels being easier than normal and the nature of the trolls themselves. If you've played Invictus, you'll be fine. They're more playful than anything.

 

[lincolnic]

Well, I got through the first half of the motor skills level in an hour, which was fine, but I'm two hours and 20 minutes into the second half and I can't even reliably get halfway through it. Mostly due to this fucking disco shell that I can't ever seem to land on. I feel like I've never had this much trouble with one single obstacle before.

That's not even the worst part -- about ten minutes into my play session, the B button on my controller started sticking again, which turned out to be extremely terrible for playing motor skills. So I had to switch to a PS4 controller, and 1) it's weird to play Mario on a PS4 controller and 2) because the button spacing is different, my thumb is cramping up.

You win today, game.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

I spent an hour with Hark Bros last night and, as Snake can probably attest, I didn’t really enjoy any of it! It probably didn’t help that I was really tired and I wound up getting hung up on the back half of the second level. I realized this morning that I kept getting shot by that stupid bullet because I wasn’t destroying it - spin jump on the damn thing and it will stop respawning every time you scroll the screen back. Anyway, brain problems aside, I can’t say I was very excited about what I played in the first two levels. The combination of old-school design + precision + trolls makes for levels that don’t flow at all IMO. I might pick away at it here and there this week in preparation for Hark 2, but once that’s out I expect I’ll drop it.

ETA: Figured I'd give it another shot this morning, since I'm rested and I know what to do, and that the whole thing would take me 10 minutes to complete. NOPE. Half an hour later, the best I've managed is to pull off the shell jump from the yoshi exactly once, which sent me straight into the bat. After that, I couldn't even get past the chuck any more. Remember that chart from way back in this thread, about how good kaizo design should fall in the correct side of the "sick as hell" axis? This game is medium difficulty and it isn't sick at all. I think I'm done with Hark 1, let's hope the sequel is more inspiring.

 

[lincolnic]

I hear you, Mike, I didn't care for the early levels of Hark Bros either. That second level has to be the worst in the game. I do think the late-game levels are much better, but if you're not having any fun there's no point in slogging through until you get there.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

I had hoped it would be a pretty quick jaunt and that I could get to the later stuff in short order, but at this point I don't think I even want to finish this level. It's really weird that I wound up disliking this game so much, considering it's the hack that convinced me to try playing kaizo! But contrast that to Invictus, where I've spent nearly four hours on Cemetary Bloom without quite finishing it, and yet I'm still enjoying myself because the moment-to-moment is so much more engaging. I think there's a certain kind of player who really loves the super-vanilla kaizo, things that you could imagine someone putting together in the late 90s by hand. But for me I'll always be more interested in the games that stretch the mechanics and aesthetics to their breaking points. Honestly, Invictus has me seriously considering running GPW2 soon, and that game is even harder! But the art, music and creative level designs are likely to keep me motivated even if every individual level is a huge challenge. We'll see how I feel about that once I actually finish Invictus, mind you.

Speaking of, I really am painfully close to finishing Cemetary Bloom, but I think it's going to go down as the most time I've ever spent on a single level. Progress has been steady, and aside from the vine jump in the first half there's nothing particularly egregious, it's just...really hard. I made it as far as the pipe troll right before the exit, which I fell for, and I'm not even mad. Juz finds super creative ways to troll the player that are almost rewarding in and of themselves, which contrasts pretty starkly to the kaizo blocks of Hark Bros that just feel lazy and frustrating. I'm still going to give Hark 2 a chance, because 2-3 years is like a geologic age in terms of kaizo design, but I hope it doesn't feel like such a throwback.

 

[lincolnic]

You're almost there! If you've reached the troll, then you're at the end of the level. You'll be through it really soon now.

Speaking of the most time I've spent on a single level, I've finally conquered Absolute Power. It took another hour and 40 minutes today to finally clear the second half and boss, which leads to a grand total of five hours for the entire level. Woof. I'm not being salty when I say this, but at least some of the deaths were not my fault. There were two particular spots where enemies would occasionally spawn either too early or too late, and since you need to bounce off of every single enemy, you just lose a run if that happens.

I'm not sure if I ever got 100% used to motor skills. Once I knew what I had to do it went into muscle memory, but on sections where I was unsure it sometimes felt like just one thing too many for me to try and keep in mind. Unfortunately for me, I'm gonna have to do it again once I get to the final level. Hopefully that one won't take nearly as long.

In better news, the next level coming up is fairly short and doesn't seem nearly as hard. Famous last words, maybe, but after two levels in a row of super chocolate mechanics I'm looking forward to one where I don't have to worry about anything beyond platforming. It's the penultimate level, which means I've got a decent chance of finishing this hack before Friday! Cross your fingers for me.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Wow, you’re almost there! Don’t stop now, you’ve got this.

 

[SilentSnake]

I beat Shell's Retriever! As my first shell hack, it was a lot of fun nailing the strings of tricks, and I never felt too out of my depth, but I did learn a lot about shells. If you're ever curious about shell hacks, this is definitely the place to start.

As for Hark 1, I think the reason I like it is that it has such playful design in its levels, and not just in its trolls. I also appreciate that it pushed me to be a better player coming off a bunch of beginner hacks while still remaining approachable for me. But this is just my view on it.

Now I'm going to see if I can complete Quest for Corgi Butts before Hark 2 comes out.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Good work on Shells, and good luck with Corgis! You'll need all that shell practice for the finale...

 

[lincolnic]

Nice work! I'll probably come back to Shell's Retriever every so often and beat it over time. For me I think it works better as playing a level or two in between other hacks so I don't get too tired of the concept. Shell hacks are a sometimes food.

 

[SilentSnake]

Gotta say, Corgi was the right call right now. It's not the easiest hack, but it's chill in that the segments are short. Can def see myself any%ing this before Friday.

 

[lincolnic]

Glad it's working out for you so far! Just remember that the beginning and end of the game are somehow the easiest parts, and the middle is the worst.

 

[SilentSnake]

All right, 11 exits into Corgi and I'm having fun with it. It's definitely a chill game with short levels and creative gimmicks. Basically perfect filler hack material right now.

 

[lincolnic]

Alright, gang. Koopa Road is down (an hour forty) and it's time for the final level. I'm fully expecting this to take at least two sittings, but the end is in sight. Onward to Invictus!

 

[MCBanjoMike]

I am sending you my power!

 

[SilentSnake]

Oh god, I made it to the shell level in Corgi Butts. My confidence is starting to waver...

 

[lincolnic]

If anyone in this thread can beat that level, it's you!

Or you could do what I did and say "You know what, I beat enough of this game" and maybe come back to it another day.

I've made it to Kamek! Though by the time I got there I was pretty much out of steam for the day, because it sure was a battle getting through the castle. Most of it was pretty fun, but the second room was very tough for me. There's a part towards the end where you have to stall on a saw while constantly activating on/off blocks with the shoulder buttons until your path forward is clear, and I had a lot of trouble with that because the rhythm that you're bouncing on the saw is completely unrelated to the rhythm you need to press the shoulder buttons. You basically have to keep two completely separate timings in your brain, which feels pretty unnatural.

I would like to say, though, that I did not find the kaizo block, and I made it into the final up pipe on my first try.

I am sending you my power!

I want you to know that when I was stuck in the second room, I thought of this message and it genuinely helped.

Tomorrow: several deaths, ideally followed by credits.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Haven't played a ton lately because it's been a week and I'm really tired, but I did finally finish Cemetery Bloom! I spent half an hour on the subsequent sky tree level and made it as far as the block that you have to throw off the screen to the right, which then wraps around to activate a switch. I actually managed it once, only to die immediately afterwards, but overall I find it to be a really tough maneuver. I decided to watch Ryukahr play that level and he has a little trick that makes it way easier: kick the block up and then bump it to the right. I'm gonna start doing that in more situations, because consistently launching throw blocks is one of the hardest things in SMW for me. Anyway, the level has been really fun so far! I'm a sucker for platforming where the goal is to go as fast as possible.

 

[lincolnic]

Kamek update: two hours in and I've got pretty consistent strats for the first two phases, as well as the first half of the third. Then there's a disco shell and I've only cleared that once. Kinda running out of steam for now, more attempts tomorrow.

I'm not particularly frustrated with anything, it's just that having to do the first phases over and over again takes so much time. I'm pretty much at the exact halfway point of the fight. Let's hope I can get there tomorrow.

 

[SilentSnake]

One hellish shell level and cursed Boom Boom fight later, I've 100%'d Corgi Butts. I'm not sure if this was the hardest kaizo level I've beaten yet, but it might have been. Either way, I'm extremely proud that I got through it.

So I know I said that I would stick to filler stuff before Hark 2 comes out, but I've kinda been itching to get to Invictus, so I think I'm going to start that just to see how far I can get.

 

[lincolnic]

Way to go! That level is no joke.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Wow, I’m legitimately impressed. My feeling is that level may be tougher than anything I’ve done in Invictus to date.

 

[lincolnic]

Put another hour into Kamek, still can't get past the disco shell. It's gotten to the point where there's no challenge in the first two phases at all, they're just tedious. This boss fight needs a damn checkpoint.

 

[SilentSnake]

I lied, I decided to start Unintended Behavior next, and I'm glad I did. The gentle puzzle solving is the perfect antidote to shell hell. And the best part is you don't need to know any of the glitches beforehand because message boxes nicely tutorialize everything you need to know about the glitches to beat the levels. A very cool palate cleanser.

 

[lincolnic]

My head is bloody, but unbowed...
I am the master of my fate.
I am the captain of my soul.

 

[SilentSnake]

Yessss!!!! Congrats, and well earned!

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Woohoo! Congratulations, that's incredible. To think, it's only been a few months since we all started this little adventure, it's pretty amazing.

 

[lincolnic]

Thanks so much, guys. It's been a hell of a journey, and I really appreciate being able to share and talk about this stuff with you both!

Kamek ended up taking another two sittings. The third phase (with the shells) was by far the most difficult for me. I was able to learn a good pattern for the disco shell (shoutouts to Barb, Xwater, and Calco's speedrun videos), but keeping my balance on it was hard every time. I managed to get enough practice in the other phases that they basically became free -- all my runs lived and died (mostly died) on the disco shell. The second time I sat down to play today, I went for an hour and started to see some real progress; I was getting past the shells more and more frequently and I knew the end was in sight. I got up with the intention of taking maybe half an hour to clear my head, but the feeling that I was close kept nagging at me. I sat down after a five minute break, got to the final phase on my second attempt, missed the first shell throw but kept my cool and closed it out.

Clear times for posterity:
Final castle, pre-Kamek - three hours, 5 minutes (one hour for the first room, an hour and 45 minutes for the second, 20 minutes for the last)
Kamek - five hours, 40 minutes
100% completion - 45 hours

So, Invictus. By far the hardest video game I've ever beaten, and if you'd told me when I started Learn 2 Kaizo in September that I'd 100% it after just four months, I would've laughed at you. I don't have to tell you guys how frustrated I was in the beginning, either. Honestly, some amount of that was due to Pandemic Feelings, but I think I was also unwilling to meet the game on its own terms for a while. Just like how you have to learn to play kaizo even if you know how to play vanilla SMW, I feel like I had to learn how to play Invictus even after clearing a number of kaizo hacks. The level of precision it asks from you was just a step above anything else I've played to date.

I can't pinpoint a particular level or section, but eventually I managed to internalize that yes, every level is going to take a while, and learned to be okay with that. And once I did, it was so much easier to appreciate all the cool stuff that's packed into every single level. Because let's be real: there's an incredible amount of ideas in this game. Every single level is memorable and has a unique theme. They're extremely well designed (the sewer autoscroller can still suck a butt though). Juz clearly poured a lot of himself into the game, and I think its monumental status in the community is rightfully deserved. The whole experience really and truly made me a better kaizo player. I learned new skills and sharpened the ones I came in with. Here's the most important part, though, cheesy as it may be: it reminded me about the value of perseverence. Having finished this, I know I can beat whatever kaizo I set out to play, as long as I'm willing to put the time in. I'm not about to boot up Grand Poo World 2 next, but I've gone from "I don't think I'll ever play that" to "Yeah, maybe I will some day".

I'm super glad I played Invictus. I may even play it again some day! But holy shit am I gonna play some easier stuff first.

 

[SilentSnake]

Hey. I'm proud of us. We've all reached heights and accomplished things we never would have dreamed of before. Let's keep going.

 

[lincolnic]

Well said, my friend.