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"It feels different this time..." - The new Doctor Who Thread
- Thread starter Kazin
- Start date
Yeah, there's no way they'd use that mess for any proposed series for McGann, though I can see some cheeky references to it happening, which could be fun. Maybe they could bring Jacobi back as an on screen Master? Though he's probably a bit old for that now, alas.
The TARDIS interior was amazing though.
Hooray!
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
Yes it was. The one thing that was better than you'd expect in that terrible, terrible film. I remember watching it, genuinely thinking "maybe it being dead isn't such a bad thing after all"
Look at this way. The American take was to the new Dr. Who as Batman & Robin '97 was to Batman Begins. A misguided attempt that spurred a better version into being. Plus McGann got a ton of work via Big Finnish audio dramas.
My policy with rumors is generally to treat them as untrue until they're substantiated, so I'm not getting too excited about this Eighth Doctor business. Of course I hope it's true; I love getting classic Doctors back on my screen, and nobody deserves another crack at it more than Paul McGann.
On the other hand... My extremely bad faith hot take is that the optics on this are a little unfortunate. For the first time in DW history, the current Doctor (played by a gay black man) is going to have to share the spotlight with another, who just happens to be straight and white. A more cynical person might think this was being planned as counterprogramming for those who can't hang with "DOCTOR WOKE," but while I'm sure that's not the conscious intent of anybody at Bad Wolf Ltd., it does make me wince a little.
On the other hand... My extremely bad faith hot take is that the optics on this are a little unfortunate. For the first time in DW history, the current Doctor (played by a gay black man) is going to have to share the spotlight with another, who just happens to be straight and white. A more cynical person might think this was being planned as counterprogramming for those who can't hang with "DOCTOR WOKE," but while I'm sure that's not the conscious intent of anybody at Bad Wolf Ltd., it does make me wince a little.
That's all fair, yeah. I'm also a little leery of the MCU-ification vibes I'm getting from these rumors and the whole "Doctor Whoniverse" thing they seem to be peddling. No offense to those who like the MCU (hi Vaeran), but I don't like the idea of commodifying Doctor Who. Feels wrong for the show.
...which is a ridiculous thing to think, of course, since the show has been commodified since the 60s (TV annuals, books, Dalek tat of every kind, etc etc). I dunno! lol
...which is a ridiculous thing to think, of course, since the show has been commodified since the 60s (TV annuals, books, Dalek tat of every kind, etc etc). I dunno! lol
Nah, I definitely understand the apprehension, especially with Disney having fingers in the pie. But personally I feel pretty safe with RTD at the creative helm. DW already became a shared universe under his first administration, with Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures, and that was before the MCU took off. It seems that's just how he likes things.
Yeah, I feel alright about things under RTD, but he won't be around forever... can you imagine Chibnall directing the "Doctor Whoniverse?" It'd be intolerable lol. I suppose I'm getting ahead of things though, we really don't know what this all entails, yet.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
I mean I saw where it was going but I still had fun. And Julian Bleach's Davros is still working both for actual menace and comedic effect.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
Apparently this is going to stick. I'm in two minds about it; it's not a good look equating evil and disability but it's a big change to a long established character. I'd sooner they added a disabled hero to balance him out.
But Davros always was able-bodied at the beginning, right? Although I may be confusing what is said in Genesis of the Daleks with the I, Davros audios I listened to years ago.
I was grinding out shiny Eevees today in Pokemon Scarlet (caught like 17 of them in the event over the past day and a half... only 1 mark so far, dangit), and I rewatched Donna's season and The End of Time to re-familiarize myself before her return. A couple things stand out - season 4 is an exceptional season. Partners in Time is always a better watch than I remember going into it. The scene where the Doctor and Donna see each other again is still funny. The Fires of Pompeii is great as well - it's interesting how much screen time Capaldi gets, given that he basically has nothing to do in the plot (his daughter has much more to do in the story, and she's great as well). Planet of the Ood is a masterpiece - Donna is at her most empathetic, and she and the Doctor are almost just witnesses to the Ood revolution. The Doctor even asks Ood Sigma for permission to disable the barrier around the big brain thing - he says it'd be his honor to do it, like he knows he's not the hero here, he's just along for the ride. I love it so, so much. The Sontaran two parter, the Unicorn and the Wasp, and the Doctor's Daughter are all terrible, and I didn't pay too much attention to them lol. But then it's just banger after banger until the series is over. Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead are great, obviously for the River Song stuff - Alex Kingston is so good in these two, it's almost like she had already played River Song in the 11th Doctor era, she feels right at home in that part right away and this two parter watches so well after seeing the Matt Smith stuff. It's also a fun story on it's own, even if the way the Doctor beats the Vashta Narada is a little cop-outy (and won't be the last time Moffat uses "I'm the Doctor, look me up" to end a plot, sadly).
Then the one-two punch of Midnight and Turn Left - what a bleak stretch of Doctor Who (in a good way). Midnight is easily Davies' most terrifying script to date - it's like he wrote a plot starting from the point of "what would be a nightmare for specifically the 10th Doctor to live through," as in what would be the worst arena for him to be in. That little ship where his charms and gobby mouth are used against him is just delicious television. It's obviously Davies writing a "Moffat script" - like Moffat makes everyday things scary, Davies makes the thing kids do to annoy each other - copying what they say - fucking scary, which shows the dude can do scary if he wants to. And then Turn Left - holy shit, what a bleak, sad story. We watch a sideways universe Donna die, for real! And that's after killing the Doctor, Martha, Sarah Jane, and her little friends off screen, resulting in, among other things, irradiated England, a provisional government that sends non-English people to camps with Wilf saying "it's happening again," I mean, damn. And then The Stolen Earth/Journey's End are just big dumb fun, at least until the very very end with Donna which I'm not going to talk about because I'm hoping it gets undone next week.
The End of Time was... fine. I'm all over the place with that two parter. There are bits of it that I adore - every scene with Wilf is excellent, he lifts every scene he's in. Timothy Dalton is having fun. I like Tennant's performance throughout, particularly his scene with Wilf in the glass box bit. The Doctor's reward portion of the episode is largely dumb, but the bit with "Verity Newman" (d'aww) and her book, with the Doctor asking if her grandmother was happy... Wonderful, wonderful touch. I love the way Jessica Hynes plays that scene. The Master is ridiculous, even if John Simm laughing in a hundred different outfits is funny at the end of the first episode. The Obama stuff is crap and very weird. The Time Lord stuff barely makes any sense, even if The Day of the Doctor tries to retcon it ever so slightly to make a bit more sense. Also, Rassilon just being around is super weird - I guess he was resurrected during the Time War, but he was only ever glimpsed in the classic series, in The Five Doctors, otherwise being basically a Time Lord legendary historical figure, one of the founders of Time Lord society. Being annoyed about that is obviously fan nonsense on my part, though.
In any case, bring on next week! I will not be rewatching The Celestial Toymaker, thanks, it's dogshit unwatchable boring nonsense.
I was grinding out shiny Eevees today in Pokemon Scarlet (caught like 17 of them in the event over the past day and a half... only 1 mark so far, dangit), and I rewatched Donna's season and The End of Time to re-familiarize myself before her return. A couple things stand out - season 4 is an exceptional season. Partners in Time is always a better watch than I remember going into it. The scene where the Doctor and Donna see each other again is still funny. The Fires of Pompeii is great as well - it's interesting how much screen time Capaldi gets, given that he basically has nothing to do in the plot (his daughter has much more to do in the story, and she's great as well). Planet of the Ood is a masterpiece - Donna is at her most empathetic, and she and the Doctor are almost just witnesses to the Ood revolution. The Doctor even asks Ood Sigma for permission to disable the barrier around the big brain thing - he says it'd be his honor to do it, like he knows he's not the hero here, he's just along for the ride. I love it so, so much. The Sontaran two parter, the Unicorn and the Wasp, and the Doctor's Daughter are all terrible, and I didn't pay too much attention to them lol. But then it's just banger after banger until the series is over. Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead are great, obviously for the River Song stuff - Alex Kingston is so good in these two, it's almost like she had already played River Song in the 11th Doctor era, she feels right at home in that part right away and this two parter watches so well after seeing the Matt Smith stuff. It's also a fun story on it's own, even if the way the Doctor beats the Vashta Narada is a little cop-outy (and won't be the last time Moffat uses "I'm the Doctor, look me up" to end a plot, sadly).
Then the one-two punch of Midnight and Turn Left - what a bleak stretch of Doctor Who (in a good way). Midnight is easily Davies' most terrifying script to date - it's like he wrote a plot starting from the point of "what would be a nightmare for specifically the 10th Doctor to live through," as in what would be the worst arena for him to be in. That little ship where his charms and gobby mouth are used against him is just delicious television. It's obviously Davies writing a "Moffat script" - like Moffat makes everyday things scary, Davies makes the thing kids do to annoy each other - copying what they say - fucking scary, which shows the dude can do scary if he wants to. And then Turn Left - holy shit, what a bleak, sad story. We watch a sideways universe Donna die, for real! And that's after killing the Doctor, Martha, Sarah Jane, and her little friends off screen, resulting in, among other things, irradiated England, a provisional government that sends non-English people to camps with Wilf saying "it's happening again," I mean, damn. And then The Stolen Earth/Journey's End are just big dumb fun, at least until the very very end with Donna which I'm not going to talk about because I'm hoping it gets undone next week.
The End of Time was... fine. I'm all over the place with that two parter. There are bits of it that I adore - every scene with Wilf is excellent, he lifts every scene he's in. Timothy Dalton is having fun. I like Tennant's performance throughout, particularly his scene with Wilf in the glass box bit. The Doctor's reward portion of the episode is largely dumb, but the bit with "Verity Newman" (d'aww) and her book, with the Doctor asking if her grandmother was happy... Wonderful, wonderful touch. I love the way Jessica Hynes plays that scene. The Master is ridiculous, even if John Simm laughing in a hundred different outfits is funny at the end of the first episode. The Obama stuff is crap and very weird. The Time Lord stuff barely makes any sense, even if The Day of the Doctor tries to retcon it ever so slightly to make a bit more sense. Also, Rassilon just being around is super weird - I guess he was resurrected during the Time War, but he was only ever glimpsed in the classic series, in The Five Doctors, otherwise being basically a Time Lord legendary historical figure, one of the founders of Time Lord society. Being annoyed about that is obviously fan nonsense on my part, though.
In any case, bring on next week! I will not be rewatching The Celestial Toymaker, thanks, it's dogshit unwatchable boring nonsense.
Excellent overview of the season, Kazin! S4 was always my favorite, mostly because Donna's the super best forever, but it's also got a very high hit-to-miss ratio. The episodes you singled out as "terrible" certainly aren't my favorites, but I don't find them irredeemable in the same way that earlier seasons have stinkers like Fear Her or Evolution of the Daleks. I haven't revisited the season as a whole in a long time, aside from cherrypicking the big faves like the Library two-parter and Midnight to rewatch. I'm planning to get real cozy with that New Who blu-ray box when it arrives, though! Should be this week (hopefully, but who knows with the holidays) or next.
God I'm so hype for the 60th, hnnnghgghhhhh
God I'm so hype for the 60th, hnnnghgghhhhh
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
One of the thing I love about Midnight is almost everything that is the Doctor's strength is completely twisted around against him in a way you rarely see and runs counter to the ethos the show often has without feeling like a betrayal. The Doctor is curious and wants to communicate and understand and the threat uses against him. But at the same time, he is able to reach out to the humanity of one other person who saves him, at a grave cost. Dark Doctor Who episodes can often fall flat but it really is one of the strongest ones.
Thanks! I do think The Doctor's Daughter is terrible, but the others are just pretty boring. I remember the Sontaran two parter having it's moments. I was never an enormous fan of The Unicorn and the Wasp, and not just because the writer is a dipshit transphobe - I think Roberts' best script is The Caretaker, which I know gets some stick from fans (and it ain't perfect), but at least has some interesting character stuff going on for Clara.
I would really like to be watching colourized Daleks right now but only fans with access to iPlayer can see it, and I don't know when torrent sites will get it uploaded (if they ever do). So, US fans get nothing on the actual anniversary of the show. Sucks to be a US fan of this show sometimes.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
They showed it on BBC Four yesterday, but I was too busy watching Genesis of the Daleks with my daughter
I think it's aged a bit too much for the kids to take The Daleks seriously, colourised or not. I'll watch it on my own
I also watched some of the Tales of the TARDIS. The Curse of Fenric is still fantastic
I think it's aged a bit too much for the kids to take The Daleks seriously, colourised or not. I'll watch it on my own
I also watched some of the Tales of the TARDIS. The Curse of Fenric is still fantastic
NOW THAT'S SOME DOCTOR WHO-ASS DOCTOR WHO
I WOULD LIKE MORE RIGHT NOW PLEASE
That Tennant and Tate still had it was never in doubt. The question was whether RTD could bring the goods again, and I'm pleased to report his second administration is off to a great start. Feels like the show is in safe hands once again.
I like that the sonic can make a little hologram screen! I don't like that it can make portable laserblast shields! Stop that!
I never read the original Beep the Meep comic(s?) but was vaguely aware from osmosis that he was a villain of some sort, so I was kind of prepared for the twist. Nice crunchy baddie.
Is it weird that the Doctor left a Winter Soldier-style activation phrase in Donna's brain? It's weird, isn't it? For a moment my dumb ass thought RTD was going to stick to his guns and restore Donna's memory just to kill her in front of us. Maybe he was really bitter all this time that no one liked her ending! "You want me to undo it? Fine, here you go!" Nah, it's all right, of course.
Taking Donna's "binarybinarybinarybinary" meltdown and paying it off with "non-binary" was some brilliant cheese. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Rose, though her "did you just assume the Meep's gender???" moment kind of made me wince.
New TARDIS interior is a nice visual callback to the classic console room but feels rather sterile. I don't mind if this is just for the 60th specials, but I hope Gatwa gets his own interior and that it's a bit warmer.
I like that the sonic can make a little hologram screen! I don't like that it can make portable laserblast shields! Stop that!
I never read the original Beep the Meep comic(s?) but was vaguely aware from osmosis that he was a villain of some sort, so I was kind of prepared for the twist. Nice crunchy baddie.
Is it weird that the Doctor left a Winter Soldier-style activation phrase in Donna's brain? It's weird, isn't it? For a moment my dumb ass thought RTD was going to stick to his guns and restore Donna's memory just to kill her in front of us. Maybe he was really bitter all this time that no one liked her ending! "You want me to undo it? Fine, here you go!" Nah, it's all right, of course.
Taking Donna's "binarybinarybinarybinary" meltdown and paying it off with "non-binary" was some brilliant cheese. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Rose, though her "did you just assume the Meep's gender???" moment kind of made me wince.
New TARDIS interior is a nice visual callback to the classic console room but feels rather sterile. I don't mind if this is just for the 60th specials, but I hope Gatwa gets his own interior and that it's a bit warmer.
I WOULD LIKE MORE RIGHT NOW PLEASE
Non spoilery reaction: characters! Dialogue! A fucking point! Doctor Who is back! It's so great to have a good fucking writer back again, sheesh.
I'm with you on the "assume the Meep's gender" moment being absolutely cringe as fuck, Vaeran. Though, the episode showed enough goodwill elsewhere that I'll forgive it. Though we didn't also need the misgendering deadnaming shit at the beginning, either, imo.
Fucking hell, though, is it good to have good dialogue again. And fun pacing, and character conflict (Sylvia was a fucking delight throughout, her slapping Tennant might have been my favorite bit of the episode lol)!
Also, the brand new TARDIS fucking exploding because someone spilled coffee on it is amazing. The TARDIS is a fantastic machine, but it's always been a bit shit, and I wouldn't have it any other way. That coffee hits the console and it is in flames IMMEDIATELY. I love it lmao
I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle Wilf.
I'm with you on the "assume the Meep's gender" moment being absolutely cringe as fuck, Vaeran. Though, the episode showed enough goodwill elsewhere that I'll forgive it. Though we didn't also need the misgendering deadnaming shit at the beginning, either, imo.
Fucking hell, though, is it good to have good dialogue again. And fun pacing, and character conflict (Sylvia was a fucking delight throughout, her slapping Tennant might have been my favorite bit of the episode lol)!
Also, the brand new TARDIS fucking exploding because someone spilled coffee on it is amazing. The TARDIS is a fantastic machine, but it's always been a bit shit, and I wouldn't have it any other way. That coffee hits the console and it is in flames IMMEDIATELY. I love it lmao
I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle Wilf.
I just finished the colourised Dalek edit they released on the 23rd (somebody finally uploaded a t*rrent). I actually quite liked it overall!
The main issue is the music is too loud, and often doesn't fit. Not just for classic Who, but in general, it doesn't match the tone of the story. Apparently Murray Gold did it, and I'm surprised it's so poorly mixed and ill advised tonewise. I guess he couldn't help himself but try to make it sound like NuWho. It doesn't work. The last half of the serial is some weird jaunty, funky mix that I don't like at all.
That said, the editing is largely a success. Right away, they cut Susan finding that weird, fake looking metal creature, and cut the TARDIS food machine nonsense completely, other than a brief shot of the Doctor unwrapping a piece of food. They get to the end of the original episode one in ten minutes - meaning they cut nearly fifteen. I don't miss it! This moves along at a great pace. They cut most of Susan running to get the anti-radiation drugs (especially the shot of her clearly running in place while stagehands slap her with palm fronds. They seem to want to fix "mistakes" which is sensible, but it's weird not having Hartnell say "anti-radiation gloves. ...Drugs!" in that one scene lol), but some of the plot points are somewhat hard to follow. The letter the Daleks force Susan to write with lies in it is completely gone, the Thals just... get a letter and wander into the city. Oddly, they left more of the interminable cave jump nonsense in than I thought they would, though mercifully it goes quick.
The colour is fun for the actors - I adore seeing Hartnell, Ford, Russell, and Hill in colour. It's kind of amazing, actually. And it looks quite good, if a bit blurry (which is hardly an issue, it looks like watching a VHS tape or something, who cares if it's not crystal clear 1080p, this is television from the 1960s). The Daleks look good, too. The sets... Oddly, they left the plywood naturally coloured, which is an odd choice. I wish they'd have coloured it silver or something, even if it had wood patterns in it still, just to make it look less shoddy. For all the work they did to modernize this, when the TARDIS crew first get to the city and you see everything is plywood, it's a bit ridiculous.
Still, for all that, I really enjoyed it, and it is certainly an easier watch than the original seven fucking episodes (which still exist! We can all still watch them!). There's even several shots in colour from future Hartnell episodes - I didn't catch them all and wouldn't remember them all if I did anyway, but some Daleks Masterplan, Time Meddler, Tenth Planet, even the friggin Gunfighters have some colour shots, it's pretty rad, though I doubt we'll get all those colourized and edited down, though I kinda wish we would. Though I don't think the fans will stand for it, alas.
It's so nice to be wholeheartedly in to Doctor Who again, my goodness.
The main issue is the music is too loud, and often doesn't fit. Not just for classic Who, but in general, it doesn't match the tone of the story. Apparently Murray Gold did it, and I'm surprised it's so poorly mixed and ill advised tonewise. I guess he couldn't help himself but try to make it sound like NuWho. It doesn't work. The last half of the serial is some weird jaunty, funky mix that I don't like at all.
That said, the editing is largely a success. Right away, they cut Susan finding that weird, fake looking metal creature, and cut the TARDIS food machine nonsense completely, other than a brief shot of the Doctor unwrapping a piece of food. They get to the end of the original episode one in ten minutes - meaning they cut nearly fifteen. I don't miss it! This moves along at a great pace. They cut most of Susan running to get the anti-radiation drugs (especially the shot of her clearly running in place while stagehands slap her with palm fronds. They seem to want to fix "mistakes" which is sensible, but it's weird not having Hartnell say "anti-radiation gloves. ...Drugs!" in that one scene lol), but some of the plot points are somewhat hard to follow. The letter the Daleks force Susan to write with lies in it is completely gone, the Thals just... get a letter and wander into the city. Oddly, they left more of the interminable cave jump nonsense in than I thought they would, though mercifully it goes quick.
The colour is fun for the actors - I adore seeing Hartnell, Ford, Russell, and Hill in colour. It's kind of amazing, actually. And it looks quite good, if a bit blurry (which is hardly an issue, it looks like watching a VHS tape or something, who cares if it's not crystal clear 1080p, this is television from the 1960s). The Daleks look good, too. The sets... Oddly, they left the plywood naturally coloured, which is an odd choice. I wish they'd have coloured it silver or something, even if it had wood patterns in it still, just to make it look less shoddy. For all the work they did to modernize this, when the TARDIS crew first get to the city and you see everything is plywood, it's a bit ridiculous.
Still, for all that, I really enjoyed it, and it is certainly an easier watch than the original seven fucking episodes (which still exist! We can all still watch them!). There's even several shots in colour from future Hartnell episodes - I didn't catch them all and wouldn't remember them all if I did anyway, but some Daleks Masterplan, Time Meddler, Tenth Planet, even the friggin Gunfighters have some colour shots, it's pretty rad, though I doubt we'll get all those colourized and edited down, though I kinda wish we would. Though I don't think the fans will stand for it, alas.
It's so nice to be wholeheartedly in to Doctor Who again, my goodness.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I know we were both a little unsure about Tennant's return, and he's my favorite Doctor whereas I know he's not yours, so I wondered as I was watching if these specials had a bit of an uphill battle to fight for you.
I feel really optimistic about the future of this series right now.
Yeah... I think RTD has established himself as a good trans ally (see his "to remove the T from LGBT is to kill" speech), so I'm going to call these well-intentioned but unfortunate missteps. Others may see them less charitably.
Oh my god I know. I started getting a little misty when they were just talking about him.
I may not get to The Colorization of the Daleks until tomorrow, so I'll leave your other post unread for now.
I still like Ten and his era a lot! Though, yes, he's not my favorite. Regarding Fourteen: I understand this is meant to be a greatest hits parade, but I don't need more fucking "allons-y" when I didn't even like it in Ten's era proper. Otherwise, though, Tennant is as good as I expected him to be, though I'm still really looking forward to Gatwa.
Same. I mean it was obvious this was going to be an immediate step up in quality, but it's nice to see that even though this appears to be a bit of a retread in part, that RTD is not afraid to get some politics in there. I can't imagine how terf island is taking it (and don't care to look, because fuck em).
Yeah, I'm probably coming off as a bit harsh when I don't mean to be. I mean, clumsy or not, it's fucking there. We got absolutely nothing like that in the Chibnall era. Frankly it's a delight to even have something of substance to debate lol (sorry Chibnall fans)
Literally same lol. It's going to be delightful, but rough.