"It feels different this time..." - The new Doctor Who Thread

[Exposition Owl]

Wonderful episode. It boggles my mind that “soldiers of the psychedelic sun” isn’t the name of a funk album. More, please?

ETA: Also, that moment of facial acting from David Tennant when the Doctor first hears Donna calling the name “Rose” in the street. Just a moment of combined “no, she can’t mean that Rose; that’s impossible” and “but could it be … ?” I know when I’m being pandered to, and I love it.

 

[Daikaiju]

For a half second I thought they were crossing over with Phineas & Ferb. It'd be neat to see the Doctor's reaction to Dr. Zone.

 

[madhair60]

Sorry for the lack of any better analysis but I thought that was fucking joyous, and necessary. It feels weird to be excited about Who again!

Edit: I have mixed feelings about the misgendering/deadnaming stuff, because while I don't want to see/hear it in any other context, it was representative of horrible TERF Island, and placed carefully for intentionally upsetting effect. I'm cis/het so my perspective on this is worth next to nothing, but is it really completely off-limits/unacceptable to depict that sort of abuse in fiction, when it still happens every single day? This is a sincere question rather than rhetorical.

 

[Phantoon]

In addition, it confirmed that

1) Rose is indeed trans rather than have subtext - none of the plausible deniability nonsense big corps are so fond of, and 2) tell you everything you need to know about Donna's relationship with her daughter. And 3) there's the offchance that casually shitty people might see that behaviour and think twice next time.


As with Madhair I'm no expert on this, but fiction should be allowed to be upsetting, especially if there's a decent reason for it.

 

[Kazin]

Fair points, both of you. I have nothing to add at this point, other than to reiterate how delighted I am that there's at least some ambiguity to discuss again lol

 

[Phantoon]

I just like the way watching it didn't feel like I was doing homework. I'll never quite get along with RTD's blatant deus ex machinas and "subtlety is for cowards" but he's a hell of a writer still.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

I wasn't quite as over the moon as most (keeping in mind, I have not seen most of the recent Doctor Who seasons people seem to hate) but I found it to be a fun, goofy episode. Some elements seemed like they were not as cool or clever as RTD seemed to think (guns and missiles in a wheelchair) but I liked it as a fun Saturday morning cartoon-style Doctor adventure. And while Tennant looks older, he really hasn't lost a step.

Also, so rare for the Doctor Who expanded universe to get canonized.

 

[Kazin]

I dunno, I kinda liked the guns and missiles in the wheelchair, along with the line "we all have them" haha. Sure, it wasn't subtle, but as Phantoon said, RTD is very much a "subtlety is for cowards" writer.

I wonder who will be writing for Gatwa besides RTD. Will be interesting to see for sure...

 

[Johnny Unusual]

I dunno, I kinda liked the guns and missiles in the wheelchair, along with the line "we all have them" haha. Sure, it wasn't subtle, but as Phantoon said, RTD is very much a "subtlety is for cowards" writer.

I think my issue is I feel like I've seen that as a gimmick before to make a character who has a wheelchair have a cool thing.

The fate of Wilf was a good one. That's a bit I liked a lot.

And again, I liked the cartoony monster designs. It really suited this particular adventure (I feel like if there wasn't a Christmas special for the new Doctor, this would feel like the kind of madcap energy that works for a Christmas episode)

 

[madhair60]

They were cartoony in that they quite literally came from a cartoon! The eighties Doctor Who magazine strip of the same name, by Pat Mills and Dave Gibbons.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

They were cartoony in that they quite literally came from a cartoon! The eighties Doctor Who magazine strip of the same name, by Pat Mills and Dave Gibbons.

I assumed but I also felt it would have easy to make them look less like rounded-edges action figures and I liked they kept the look,

 

[Vaeran]

I dunno, I kinda liked the guns and missiles in the wheelchair, along with the line "we all have them" haha. Sure, it wasn't subtle, but as Phantoon said, RTD is very much a "subtlety is for cowards" writer.

Spoiler

It just struck me as a bizarre non-sequitur. It's like if Rose started spontaneously levitating, and this exchange happened:

DOCTOR: You can fly?!
ROSE: All trans people can!

like, what

I took it again as well-intentioned but clumsy on RTD's part. He's trying, I guess, to empower disabled people, but I feel like there are ways to do that without... lying about them being universally well-armed with secret weaponry??? It's so strange, and for that reason I don't think it's going to do any harm, but I don't see it doing much good either. I'm probably not qualified to talk about this as I'm not disabled, but I feel like if I were I'd be a little put off by that line. As it is I'm just baffled.

 

[Kazin]

Eh, I took it as a cheeky joke on her part, not literally trying to make the point that all wheelchair users have missiles lol. And if the show doesn't have bizarre non-sequiturs, can you even call it Doctor Who?!

 

[Daikaiju]

Sidenote: The Technobable level was off the charts.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Most importantly, it contained the line “Behold my PSYCHEDELIC SOLAR SOLDIERS and if you don’t get into acting for the expressed purpose of getting a chance to say something like that… what are you doing it for?

 

[Vaeran]

Just watched The Colorization of the Daleks. I'm a little cooler on it than you were, Kazin, but it was still an interesting novelty.

The main issue is the music is too loud, and often doesn't fit. Not just for classic Who, but in general, it doesn't match the tone of the story. Apparently Murray Gold did it, and I'm surprised it's so poorly mixed and ill advised tonewise. I guess he couldn't help himself but try to make it sound like NuWho. It doesn't work. The last half of the serial is some weird jaunty, funky mix that I don't like at all.

Totally agreed on all points, except that according to the credits we have Mark Ayres to blame this time, not Murray Gold. When I'm straining to hear Dalek shrieking over the bombastic, cacophonic soundtrack, something has gone terribly wrong. The jaunty, synth-jazzy bop when Ian's rolling down the corridor inside the Dalek casing was particularly silly.

As for the colorization itself, I think it's a mixed success. Seeing the original TARDIS team in color was a treat, of course, but some odd choices like the plywood you mentioned leave the sets looking rather cheap. Also, I couldn't help but lol:

BARBARA: [standing in a pink and green forest] There's been a forest fire... Everything's sort of white and ashen.

is it

is it Barbara

The editing is similarly hit and miss. They certainly cut out some unnecessary padding, but the pacing of the second half feels very rushed and choppy. And what was with the random flashbacks to things we'd seen ten minutes ago?


If this was a one-off, then it was an interesting little curiosity but I don't see myself revisiting it again. If it's a trial run for more of the same in the future, well, they've got some kinks to iron out. Personally I'd rather the BBC focus its money and resources towards animating the remaining missing episodes rather than fiddling with stories that are already complete, but of course it's not up to me. And it's not like anyone's coming to confiscate my DVDs of the original.

 

[Phantoon]

Most importantly, it contained the line “Behold my PSYCHEDELIC SOLAR SOLDIERS and if you don’t get into acting for the expressed purpose of getting a chance to say something like that… what are you doing it for?

If the Meep isn't back soon I riot

 

[Kazin]

Just watched The Colorization of the Daleks. I'm a little cooler on it than you were, Kazin, but it was still an interesting novelty.



Totally agreed on all points, except that according to the credits we have Mark Ayres to blame this time, not Murray Gold. When I'm straining to hear Dalek shrieking over the bombastic, cacophonic soundtrack, something has gone terribly wrong. The jaunty, synth-jazzy bop when Ian's rolling down the corridor inside the Dalek casing was particularly silly.

Huh, I wonder why I thought it was Gold? I could have sworn I read that somewhere. Maybe it was on the torrent site lmao

As for the colorization itself, I think it's a mixed success. Seeing the original TARDIS team in color was a treat, of course, but some odd choices like the plywood you mentioned leave the sets looking rather cheap. Also, I couldn't help but lol:

BARBARA: [standing in a pink and green forest] There's been a forest fire... Everything's sort of white and ashen.

is it

is it Barbara

Well, for pink and green trees, they ARE *sort of* white and ashen. Kinda. ...eh, that doesn't work, does it? lol

The editing is similarly hit and miss. They certainly cut out some unnecessary padding, but the pacing of the second half feels very rushed and choppy. And what was with the random flashbacks to things we'd seen ten minutes ago?

I'm with you here. One or two flashbacks, sure, but a few of the latter flashbacks made me think the editors thought we were stupid lol.

If this was a one-off, then it was an interesting little curiosity but I don't see myself revisiting it again. If it's a trial run for more of the same in the future, well, they've got some kinks to iron out. Personally I'd rather the BBC focus its money and resources towards animating the remaining missing episodes rather than fiddling with stories that are already complete, but of course it's not up to me. And it's not like anyone's coming to confiscate my DVDs of the original.

I'm with you 100% here, I'd rather they animate missing stuff too, even with the compromises that format brings to the table. For all I'd like to see the 1960s live version, Power of the Daleks is much better with moving pictures.

 

[Kazin]

I watched the behind the scenes video on YT, and recognized the "Iron Legion" comic collection, which reminded me I actually already own it, so I went and read the original Star Beast. The TV story is actually pretty close to the comic, although the Meep's treachery is revealed in an internal thought bubble halfway through the comic, which yeah, wouldn't work on TV. I can see why Dave Gibbons and Pat Mills were so pleased with the adaptation, though - it's pretty close to their plot in many ways. Though I do think the Meep is cuter on TV, there are a couple comic panels where they really play up the cuteness of the Meep, where it fake cries to try to gain sympathy. Obviously the Doctor/Donna/Rose/Sylvia stuff is completely absent from the comic, and K-9 and the Fourth Doctor are in the comic itself. The main difference between the Meep part of the TV story and the comic is the Wrarth Warriors put a bomb in the Doctor's stomach to try to get him to unknowingly kill the Meep by blowing him up, which does kind of go against the "peaceful alien" vibe the Wrarth otherwise give off, even in the comic. But, it's solved by the Doctor wrapping himself in lead shielding to prevent the detonation signal from getting through, and they remove the bomb in between panels at the end of the story as the Meep is taken off to await trial.

So that's neat. Doctor Who is good enough again to get me to go read ancillary material. Hooray!

 

[Vaeran]

That's cool! My own knowledge of Doctor Who comics is pretty limited. I own a few trade paperbacks that came out after the modern series launched, but nothing from before that. Any you'd recommend?

Speaking of limited knowledge, the answer to this is "almost certainly not," but I wonder if there's anything to the fact that the Doctor (Star Beast spoilers) had never heard of the Meep. They were an interstellar scourge, to hear the Wrarth tell it, and yet Fourteen's got no clue. Obviously it's no fun if every story has the Doctor immediately go "ohh I know what this is," but RTD is known to sow innocuous-seeming plot seeds that he pays off later, so you never know...

 

[Kazin]

I'm not really a comics guy, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, but nah, I don't think you're missing much. I remember really liking the DWM 8th Doctor arc, but I couldn't tell you what happened in it now, nearly ten years after reading it. But then, I never really "got" comics, so what do I know lol

 

[Vaeran]

Fair enough! I own the following:

The Forgotten and Prisoners of Time, which are unrelated to each other, but I mention them together because both are anthologies of short stories featuring past Doctors, set within a framing narrative. Lots and lots of fanservice and callbacks.

Assimilation² sees the Eleventh Doctor and the Ponds team up with the Star Trek: The Next Generation crew to battle the combined forces of the Borg and the Cybermen. Gorgeous art that really captures the actors' likenesses, and a lot of fun. If you're a fan of both series you've got to read this.

Four Doctors. Not The Four Doctors. Just Four Doctors. Legit forgot I owned this until I went and looked at my comics shelf just now, lol. Couldn't tell you a blasted thing about it. (From the cover, the Doctors in question are Ten, Eleven, Twelve and War.) Guess I should re-read this and see what it's about!

 

[Kazin]

I've read all of those, and the only one I remember is The Forgotten because it ties up a sort of loose story thread from series 1 of NuWho, with Adam being dumped off at home with a hole in his head by the Ninth Doctor. I guess I vaguely remember liking Assimilation² as well, since I'd just watched Next Gen around the same time lol

 

[Vaeran]

I think I'm probably the only one here who ordered this blu ray box, but just in case: People are starting to receive theirs now, and the word going around is that the spindles are a disc-cracking nightmare. They're talking about having to use needle-nose pliers (!) to press in the hub tabs so as not to damage the discs getting them out. So I'm going ahead and ordering a big old DVD binder to transfer them into and keep them safe. Pain in my ass.

 

[Phantoon]

That's a stupid mistake to make on something that awesome

 

[Kazin]

We have had disc holding technology since the 19-damn-80s, how does anyone screw this up so badly 40 years later?!

 

[Kirin]

All hail The Meep! (Which is to say, "woo! fun episode!")

Yeah, it's real nice to have good dialog and plotting again. If I had even a tiny quibble, it would be that The Doctor and Donna (and Rose!) getting to be totally awesome together again amounted to all of them knowing the right arbitrary buttons to push on a bunch of consoles as opposed to getting to do anything obviously clever. But the wildly over-the-top technobabble accompanying all of that kind of saved it anyway.

I came to Who late, but my wife had watched Tennant's original run when it was new and she was just in heaven through the whole episode.

 

[madhair60]

We have had disc holding technology since the 19-damn-80s, how does anyone screw this up so badly 40 years later?!

it costs an amount of money above £0.00

edit: second snarky answer: at least the Chibnall years Blu-Rays would be OK

 

[Phantoon]

amounted to all of them knowing the right arbitrary buttons to push on a bunch of consoles as opposed to getting to do anything obviously clever

Welcome to Russell T Davies!

He's a great writer but he's terrible about setting up his Deus Ex Machinas to not just be ridiculous cheats. Although Dobby Doctor becoming Magical Love Jesus Doctor through the power of Doctor Who fandom will take some topping.

Edit: yeah, you wouldn't be taking the Chibnall DVDs off the spindle at all

 

[Kazin]

It's twenty minutes into the podcast, but RTD explicitly brings up the deadnaming and transphobia from the episode, and the host, Juno Dawson, herself trans, addresses it and it's pretty interesting:

I know this is from the Doctor Who production team and is going to be emphatically positive towards the show, but the impression I've always gotten from Juno Dawson is that she would say if she felt something was inappropriate. The fact that it's addressed at all is nice, though, and I'll be watching it going forward.