"It feels different this time..." - The new Doctor Who Thread

[Phantoon]

Yeah, it's doing Fu Manchu, which is potentially a very atmospheric story to tell.

Unfortunately Fu Manchu is Mega Racist Turbo EX edition, so there wasn't any way a 70's take on it wasn't going to be bad.

On the plus side, giant rat

 

[Vaeran]

and occasionally, regular rat filmed in tiny sewer diorama

 

[Vaeran]

I've moved on to the blu-ray Season 2 I got for my birthday, and whoof, this Matthew Sweet interview with William Russell is some rough sledding. I know Russell now suffers from dementia and apparently needed a lot of help to get through his cameo in The Power of the Doctor, but you can see his mental decline was already in progress when they shot this interview in 2018. His answers are vague and wandering, and he seems to forget exactly what he was asked or what point he was making halfway through his answer. It's honestly kind of uncomfortable to watch.

 

[Kazin]

Really thoughtful of Chibnall to put that obviously ailing old man at risk of contracting covid and dying, too, for a completely hack one liner "joke"

 

[Vaeran]

Seriously.

I had to stop the interview halfway through. It was just too depressing. I understand (and share) the enthusiasm DW fans have for these surviving classic cast members, especially a link to the show's very beginning like William Russell... but I draw the line at elder abuse.

 

[Kazin]

@Vaeran Have you watched any of the serials from season 2 yet? I don't know if you've seen any of them before. The Web Planet might be the weirdest shit Doctor Who has ever put on television, although I can barely get through it.

 

[Vaeran]

I just finished Planet of Giants, and I rewatched The Dalek Invasion of Earth not that long ago, but that's it -- the rest will be entirely new to me. I'm going in order and watching all the extras after each story, so it'll be a little bit before I reach The Web Planet. But I'm very excited!

 

[Vaeran]

Doctor Who @ 60: A Musical Celebration

Two-hour orchestra concert of DW music, consisting of a number of old favorites as well as premiering Murray Gold's new arrangement of the opening theme, and themes for the Fifteenth Doctor and Ruby. I just started listening but the description says there are also (presumably brief) interviews with RTD, Moffat and Chibnall.

It also says "Available for 29 days," so get on it if you're interested.

 

[Kazin]

Heard the new theme. It's... Murray Gold! More-y Gold. It sounds a lot like the Eccleston/Tennant theme, which is probably on purpose, I suppose. I didn't listen to the new stuff otherwise, I'll see how that all feels once we finally get to Ncuti Gatwa (who I watched in Sex Education with my wife last month - he's really fucking good).

 

[Vaeran]

Yeah, Murray Gold gonna Murray Gold. I've made my peace with the bombast. I actually rather like Fifteen and Ruby's themes on a first listen, but I won't say more than that.

Meanwhile, I guess Anthony Coburn (writer of An Unearthly Child)'s son is currently feuding with the BBC over the rights to that story:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1710642035189772654

I don't have a Twitter account anymore so I can't see replies or view his timeline in order (thanks, Elon) but all the comments on r/gallifrey paint a picture of a paranoid, angry, racist, transphobic, homophobic, anti-vax nutball. Cool! Cool cool cool. Obviously a Season 1 blu-ray was going to have to wait until they animated Marco Polo anyway, but this certainly doesn't help.

 

[Kazin]

Lovely. I don't know how copyright in the UK works, but I really wish that shit expired after a certain number of years. Certainly we can agree that something 60 years old - the original writer of which is dead! - should be publicly available, whether commercially or otherwise?

 

[Vaeran]

Found this reddit thread which seems to give a good overview of the Stef Coburn situation:

Alright so here’s the situation: An Unearthly Child was written by Anthony Coburn, who helped in creating Doctor Who alongside Sydney Newman, Verity Lambert, C E Weber, Donald Wilson, and David Whittaker. He died in 1977, with his son Stef then inherited his estate after his mother’s passing in 2013.

Back in 2013 Stef tried to sue the BBC claiming that his father created the idea for the TARDIS and therefore deserved royalties for all of its uses. This was obviously thrown out by the BBC since the TARDIS was made by Verity Lambert, with Coburn only coming up with the police box exterior, which the BBC had earlier settled that they fully owned the design for in an early 2000s court case with the metropolitan police department.

That same year an audiobook reading of the Target Novelization of “An Unearthly Child” was to be released by AudioGO, but then the company fell through and the release was stalled till February 2015. The audiobook was however never released as Stef disputed the rights for its release and the audiobook currently being stuck in purgatory.

Now in 2023 he is using his ownership of the estate to pull “An Unearthly Child” from circulation due to him being mad at the casting of a gay black actor in the title role and demanding a massive settlement payment to give the rights back. These claims are currently being disputed by the BBC as Anthony was working directly for the BBC during the series creation as a staff writer and wasn’t a contracted hire like Terry Nation was when he made the Daleks. Since the Daleks were made for a contracted script, this is how the Daleks and Brigadier are controlled by the Terry Nation and Haisman Estate, but the Master or the Time Lords are controlled by the BBC since they were an internal creation.

If you’re wondering why Stef did these two actions it is purely because he’s greedy and hopes to scare the BBC into giving into his demands and has only made these ownership claims during the anniversary years in a sad attempt at drumming up as much press around it, which he is succeeding at. This habit can be seen by the fact that he recently put a DVD of the episode up for sale on eBay for £500 starting auction before taking it down after people found out it was him.

If you don’t hate the man already. He’s extremely racist, homophobic, transphobic, and a massive anti-vaxxer. When I first clicked on his Twitter, the first tweet I saw was him saying how his estranged sister told him his son died and his response was that vaccines killed him.

Currently the BBC is playing it safe by privating all clips of “An Unearthly Child” and there will probably be some legal action soon to resolve this issue and there’s a fairly good chance the courts will side with the BBC.

He sounds like a miserable creep with no legal leg to stand on, but I guess it remains to be seen how long he can tie the matter up in litigation if it comes to that. It sounds like the BBC is making clips of the serial private for now out of an abundance of caution, presumably while their lawyers dig out dusty 60 year old contracts to review. Pain in the ass.

 

[Kazin]

Yep, sounds like an enormous asshole. I didn't know his dad came up with the police box exterior, though, I thought that was Verity Lambert too.

I wonder if UK courts are as backed up as ours are... Will be interesting to see whether the newly announced BBC streaming of all of Doctor Who will have An Unearthly Child on it. Would be wild if not.

 

[Vaeran]

I'm hoping this is all a bluff on Stef Coburn's part to see how much money he can get out of the BBC and that it won't actually proceed to litigation, but I guess we'll see.

In lighter news, I watched The Rescue over the weekend and enjoyed it! Vicki seems a bit unstable at times (wanting desperately to be rescued but then getting furious with the TARDIS team for showing up and "ruining everything" when they haven't interfered with her rescue in any way) but I'll chalk that up to the stress of being stranded for who knows how long and having the deal with the deaths of the rest of the crew.

What really struck me was the Doctor's showdown with Koquillion. Maybe this is just my bad memory or the gaps in my First Doctor knowledge at work, but this is the first time I can remember Hartnell being completely in control at the climax of the story, having figured out what's going on all by himself and confronting the villain alone. It's very impressive and a sign of the commanding presence the Doctor will come to wield much more often in the future.

It's also interesting how the limited special effects of the time make it unclear whether we're looking at Koquillion's actual face or a mask. Had they played it straight and insisted this is what this creature actually looks like, I would have accepted it without question. (Small plot nitpick: when Ian describes having met Koquillion, the Doctor correctly guesses a description of horns and fangs before Ian can even get to that part. But then later we find out the inhabitants of Dido are either human or indistinguishable from human, and the horned guise is just an outfit to be used for ceremonial purposes. It's like hearing that your friend met a random person on a mountain, and then preemptively guessing that this person was wearing the Pope's hat... and being right. Maybe Pertwee's "...all teeth and curls?" line in The Five Doctors is a callback to this little-known ability of the Doctor's.)

Somewhat less pleasant (though no less interesting) was the "In Conversation" interview with Maureen O'Brien, who, if she doesn't outright regret having done Doctor Who, at least feels ambivalent about it to this day. As she describes the loss of her privacy and anonymity, and the way this brief job she had right out of drama school has overshadowed literally everything else in her career, I can certainly understand her having a sort of resentment towards it. When Matthew Sweet informs her that even the most recent reprinting of her detective novel contains "best known for playing Vicki in Doctor Who" in her biographical blurb, a look of horror flashes across her face. "I would never have allowed that if I'd known about it!" Taking all that into consideration it's surprising she wants to have anything at all to do with the show now, in the form of this interview, Behind the Sofa, etc. I'm glad to have her perspective on things even if it isn't all sunshine.

 

[Vaeran]

Will be interesting to see whether the newly announced BBC streaming of all of Doctor Who will have An Unearthly Child on it. Would be wild if not.

welp

BBC confirms Doctor Who's first story won't be in iPlayer back catalogue

A spokesperson for the BBC said: "This massive iPlayer back catalogue will be home to over 800 hours of Doctor Who content, making it the biggest ever collection of Doctor Who programming in one place but will not include the first four episodes as we do not have all the rights to those."

This sucks. I'm gonna go hug my DVDs.

 

[Kazin]

The Radio Times thankfully posted this article about where to watch An Unearthly Child (and there's more options than you'd think), but yeah, this absolutely sucks, especially considering the first episode of the entire show is a banger. Fuck Anthony Coburn's stupid asshole kid.

 

[Kazin]

Currently watching a video all about this whole thing, which only five minutes in is quite informative, so I heartily recommend it.

Trigger warnings for homophobia, transphobia, racism:

 

[Vaeran]

Thanks for the link, I'll check that out when I get home.

 

[Kazin]

Ian Levine has made an appearance! LMAO

Trigger warnings for the above video, btw - the host of the video does go over a whole bunch of bigoted shit the person in question tweeted, so beware of homophobia, transphobia, racism, etc.

 

[Kazin]

In lighter news, I watched The Rescue over the weekend and enjoyed it! Vicki seems a bit unstable at times (wanting desperately to be rescued but then getting furious with the TARDIS team for showing up and "ruining everything" when they haven't interfered with her rescue in any way) but I'll chalk that up to the stress of being stranded for who knows how long and having the deal with the deaths of the rest of the crew.

What really struck me was the Doctor's showdown with Koquillion. Maybe this is just my bad memory or the gaps in my First Doctor knowledge at work, but this is the first time I can remember Hartnell being completely in control at the climax of the story, having figured out what's going on all by himself and confronting the villain alone. It's very impressive and a sign of the commanding presence the Doctor will come to wield much more often in the future.

It's also interesting how the limited special effects of the time make it unclear whether we're looking at Koquillion's actual face or a mask. Had they played it straight and insisted this is what this creature actually looks like, I would have accepted it without question. (Small plot nitpick: when Ian describes having met Koquillion, the Doctor correctly guesses a description of horns and fangs before Ian can even get to that part. But then later we find out the inhabitants of Dido are either human or indistinguishable from human, and the horned guise is just an outfit to be used for ceremonial purposes. It's like hearing that your friend met a random person on a mountain, and then preemptively guessing that this person was wearing the Pope's hat... and being right. Maybe Pertwee's "...all teeth and curls?" line in The Five Doctors is a callback to this little-known ability of the Doctor's.)

Been meaning to reply to this post since I read it. I love The Rescue! Vicki is a delight, and I think she gets mad with the TARDIS crew because they show up and promptly shoot her dog, basically. I'd be mad at them too lol

I wish I hadn't been massively spoiled on Koquillion before even having seen it, but I was, so I knew immediately what was going on, unfortunately. Still, I think it would have surprised me - and you're right, the Doctor knew what was going on without telling us, so the reveal would have been pretty cool.

Special shout out to the Doctor convincing Vicki to travel with him at the end - it's the first time the Doctor ever tries to convince someone to travel with him, rather than kidnap them like Ian and Barbara. Hartnell does what becomes a standard Doctor Who scene very well, and Maureen O'Brien plays it well also, and thankfully it doesn't come off as creepy due to their age gap. And, as always, the writer of this, David Whittaker, quietly sets a DW precedent that continues to this very day.

Somewhat less pleasant (though no less interesting) was the "In Conversation" interview with Maureen O'Brien, who, if she doesn't outright regret having done Doctor Who, at least feels ambivalent about it to this day. As she describes the loss of her privacy and anonymity, and the way this brief job she had right out of drama school has overshadowed literally everything else in her career, I can certainly understand her having a sort of resentment towards it. When Matthew Sweet informs her that even the most recent reprinting of her detective novel contains "best known for playing Vicki in Doctor Who" in her biographical blurb, a look of horror flashes across her face. "I would never have allowed that if I'd known about it!" Taking all that into consideration it's surprising she wants to have anything at all to do with the show now, in the form of this interview, Behind the Sofa, etc. I'm glad to have her perspective on things even if it isn't all sunshine.

Her view of her run on Doctor Who has always struck me as "healthy," in that she clearly thinks it's very strange she did a half year's work 60 years ago and still gets asked about it now, along with losing privacy and anonymity, as you say. I think I'd feel similarly, even as a massive fan of the show. Unfortunately, she's been around so long, I'm sure she's dealt with very unpleasant creepy fans over the years, so I'm thankful we get interviews with her at all, as I could hardly blame her if she chose to turn down interview requests and whatnot (like Jackie Lane did - her turning up for the 50th anniversary special thingie was wild, as she hadn't returned to Doctor Who since the 60s, as far as I'm aware, in any format).

My favorite thing about O'Brien is how she took the piss out of Galaxy Four's script (eventually getting fired for it, unfortunately), because it deserved it - that script sucks and her and Hartnell ripping on it warms my heart lol

 

[Vaeran]

I wish I hadn't been massively spoiled on Koquillion before even having seen it, but I was, so I knew immediately what was going on, unfortunately. Still, I think it would have surprised me - and you're right, the Doctor knew what was going on without telling us, so the reveal would have been pretty cool.

I figured out the twist early because I'm just soooo clever, but the way they played the reveal was fun. There's something so earnest and charming about Hartnell's era, and I think it gets unfairly written off as boring and unwatchable by a lot of people who haven't given it a fair shake. Do I prefer it to the later stuff? Nah, not really, but I'm glad it's part of DW's history. It's fascinating to watch the show (and the character of the Doctor) evolve over the decades.

 

[Kazin]

I enjoyed this from the 60th music concert thing:

(and he's joking at the end there, but I agree with Chibnall, dialogue was his problem lol)

 

[Vaeran]

Oh that was cute! I cackled when they were asked about their favorite pieces from the concert, and they all named parts of the "classic" suite:

MOFFAT: That's because we don't really think modern Doctor Who counts. I'm sorry. None of us do.
RTD: [shaking head vigorously]

 

[Kazin]

We've got release dates! From this article:

"Disney Branded Television and BBC have revealed the trailer and premiere dates for the 60th anniversary “Doctor Who” specials, debuting on Disney+ and the BBC later this year. The first special, “The Star Beast,” premieres Nov. 25; “Wild Blue Yonder” comes out Dec. 2; “The Giggle” will premiere Dec. 9."

("Disney Branded Television" is an absolutely horrible three words put together, good lord)

 

[Vaeran]

Huh! So it's not three specials in November, it's three specials starting in November. Okay then. And then don't forget we've got An Extremely Ncuti Gatwa Christmas not long after that!

 

[Kazin]

We're also - thankfully - back to Saturdays for air dates as well, which suits me much better than Sundays.

 

[Kazin]

How did I miss this yesterday?!

Tales of the TARDIS

It's not straight up new episodes with classic Doctors and classic companions, but they are in character and they are in new scenes, basically presenting a clip show (which isn't as exciting as new stuff, but this wouldn't be a bad way to rewatch some old episodes, I think).

 

[Vaeran]

Wow, that's extremely random but also very cool! Love seeing these people back in character. Hopefully this is a way of priming the audience for some of them to return to the show proper in the future.

Reprising their roles as the Doctor and companions to go on a timey-wimey spin down memory lane in these unmissable adventures are; Maureen O’Brien and Peter Purves, Frazer Hines and Wendy Padbury, Katy Manning and Daniel Anthony, Peter Davison and Janet Fielding, Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant, and Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred.

Who? Apparently he was on The Sarah Jane Adventures, which I never watched more than a couple episodes of. Nice of them to bring him back too, I suppose.

I have to imagine that they'll be trimming some of these classic serials down a bit, and not just presenting them in full with new "Tales" scenes bookending them. Well, if it gets more people interested in the classic series then I'm all for it.

 

[Vaeran]

lol

 

[Kirin]

So, uh... is iPlayer stuff accessible in the US at all without VPN shenanigans? It looks like there was briefly an international version but it's defunct. Or do we think Tales will eventually end up on Disney+ over here along with the new Who seasons?