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I'm playing through all of Final Fantasy, and everyone is invited (Playing Lightning Returns now)

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
I've played through both the DS and NES versions of FFIII, and thought both were excellent. I do lean a bit toward the NES version, just because you don't feel quite as locked in to jobs, but the DS game was still very good, and even retained that brutal end stretch with no save point before the final battle. It's something else, let me tell you.

There are concessions, though, to make some of the other jobs more viable in the DS game. The NES version, by the end, basically boils down to "Ninjas and Sages"... which isn't necessarily terrible, either. Tossing stuff for insane damage is great in both.
 

Destil

DestilG
(he/him)
Staff member
The Famicom 3D version's harsh punishment for switching jobs, both short and long term, goes against a lot of the design of the game which wasn't changed. Also the small enemy groups just kinda suck, amazing they made IV work with its 5 person party without having to do that.

It's cool you can take thief to the endgame, it's annoying you may have to if you don't want to grind.

Costumes are super cute and cool, though, and I like the Onion Kids.

(and I'm currently CP grinding in a III romhack, still prefer that)
 
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Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
The Famicom version's harsh punishment for switching jobs, both short and long term, goes against a lot of the design of the game which wasn't changed. Also the small enemy groups just kinda suck, amazing they made IV work with its 5 person party without having to do that.
You mean the remake here.

Matrix clearly upped their game for FF4DS, which looked nicer than 3 in addition to having larger enemy groups.
 

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
It's hard for me to go back to Famicom III after playing through the DS one as my first time ever with the game, because of how it fleshes out so many of the unique job commands and altogether rebalances jobs across the board (Luneth was a Thief the entire game because he was just always useful and his outfit was nice). Aesthetically I prefer Famicom in almost every way. I know I've looked at Famicom romhacks that try to crib from the DS remake, but nothing quite caught my attention the last time I was browsing...
 
Is there some kind of Japanese pun in the name Onion Knight that just wouldn't survive the translation? Because I really wonder exactly why that name was chosen.

Japanese fan wikis or message boards describe the origin of the name as unclear. There are some consensus theories and relevant known facts, but none of them rely on Japanese language puns. Here are popular answers you see:
  • Because at first they are so weak they could only cut an onion
  • But when they shed their skin (level up) they become something else entirely
  • Designer Tanaka Hiromichi once answered, "because their helmets look like onions" (although that just raises the question, "why do their helmets look like onions?")
  • Whoever came up with the name doesn't remember the actual origin
 
Played a bit further, defeating the Djinn. Once he's defeated, you are warped back to the crystal and finally get the first set of jobs. In the remake, these are Warrior, Monk, Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage and Thief, so exactly the FF1 jobs, give or take some naming conventions. You also get a credit roll with the bridge crossing theme after this scene.

Before getting jobs, I had given the Wightslayer to Luneth, the pair of knuckles to Ingus and the bow and holy arrows to Refia. That left Arc without a strong weapon, so I gave him the Blizzard spell. That made it most convenient to make Luneth a Red Mage, Ingus a Monk and Arc a Black Mage. Refia can keep using her bow as a Warrior, so I did change her to that, but I bought her a mythril sword not long after.

Switching jobs puts you in a weakened state for a few battles, and switching again before fighting enough to get out of that state makes the number of battles required larger. Maybe that means I should be making somebody a full time thief so I don't have to choose between being able to open doors (there's an NPC in Ur who tells you the uses of each job, and that's what he says thieves do; I have not seen any locked doors yet) and not having someone stuck with crappy stats? I don't really want a thief at this point, though.

In the last floor of the Djinn's cave, Princess Sara was helping in combat! In the two random battles I had between meeting her and getting to the boss, she cast Aero on the enemies, which heavily damaged one group and completely wiped out the other. I guess this would be a good grinding spot for someone so inclined, although being stuck with Freelancers would make it less appealing. Sara also cast Cure on my party at the start of the Djinn fight, but that was not helpful since I had already topped off my HP beforehand. Still, it's cool that guests are more than just plot devices in this game.

Also, you can talk to Sara while she's with you, cycling through a few different conversations. She seems to have a close relationship with Ingus, and she chats up Luneth while Refia gives him a dirty look. When the party gets warped to the crystal, she's separated from them, but when you return to the castle, she's there to break the curse, and you can visit her afterwards for a scene where she bids a tearful farewell to Ingus. Also, the king gives us a canoe, which we need to cross the river to the Djinn's cave and get the airship back. In this game, it's specifically a magical folding canoe. It works just like the one in FF1, appearing whenever you move onto a river and vanishing as soon as you're back on land.

Returning to Kazus, Refia reluctantly leaves the party to return to Takka's smithy. We meet up with Cid, no longer a ghost, and he suggests getting a battering ram forged at that smithy to destroy the rock on the world map that's been blocking off the starting area from the rest of the world. Refia sneaks out while the ram is being forged and attached, and we find her back on the airship, ready to resume her life as a Light Warrior. Also during this scene, she mentions that Takka, the blacksmith, isn't her real father; she's actually an orphan, like Luneth and Arc. Hearing this, Ingus says that he also has no parents. So although these four didn't all grow up together in Ur like the original game's Onion Knights, they are all orphans.

At this point I want to editorialize a bit and say that this party's reason for sticking together is kind of weak. Like, Luneth fell down a hole and found a crystal that told him to save the world. That was good enough for the Onion Knights and it's good enough for him. Arc is Luneth's friend who wants to prove he's not a coward, even though his only real character trait so far is being afraid of extremely non-threatening ghosts (but not the legitimately dangerous undead that he encounters soon after joining). That's also fine, he can fake it 'til he makes it. Refia and Ingus, though? They don't have much reason to keep adventuring once the Djinn's curse is lifted, beyond the fact that a talking rock told them to. And this has an easy fix: just give them the original backstory! Let them all be orphans who grew up together and were already friends, before Refia left for a blacksmith apprenticeship and Ingus became a soldier. Then they can reunite and have their interactions be mostly the same as they are, but it would be a lot more believable that they'd abandon their jobs to travel the world with their lifelong friends than with a couple of guys they just met, Light Warriors or not.

I forgot to switch the music to the original. Whoops! Next time. This game has some great music, anyway. Eternal Wind deserves the praise it's gotten in this thread already, and I quite like the regular battle theme as well.
 

Lokii

(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
Re: onion knights I always figured it was the shape of the plume. Plus it’s catchy and evocative. It doesn’t need to be anything more than that.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
Nice to have you with me on the journey through FF III, gorha. I'm curious to learn more about the differences between the two versions. Having the guest characters actually fight with you, even if you have no control over them, seems like a nice change, to make them feel more like they are actually with you.

How difficult was the start for you? The part in the back of Ur, where actual monsters appear, was pretty tough at the beginning, I got nearly wiped. And even aside from that, the game isn't too hard, but it feels like every area starts out a bit more intense than I'm accustomed to from the first two games.

Also, even with the weak motivations, do you feel the added backstory makes your people stronger as characters? I mean, compared to FF I, the small stuff about them growing up in Ur and being specifically chosen by the crystal made a lot of difference to me. But maybe the added details help even more?

Also, thanks for talking about the soundtrack, everyone. As I said, I'm not much of a music person, and I forget about the soundtrack of games pretty quickly, so it's nice that other people pick that up. I do really like the overworld and the boss battle theme, though.

Re: onion knights I always figured it was the shape of the plume. Plus it’s catchy and evocative. It doesn’t need to be anything more than that.

While these are perfectly valid reasons, I also wondered about the origin of the name. I find it super interesting to find stuff like this out. I mean, there was still a decision to call them Onion Knight, and not something else, there is a little story behind this. Even if the reason is just "They look like Onions, don't they? Let's call them Onion Knights." There were a handful of games that gave you some background info about decisions like that (I think God of War did that?), and it is my favourite kind of bonus for beating a game.

I believe it was Mogri who described FF3 to me as an Easter Egg hunt, and I really like that comparison.

This is a really good way of putting it. Running around the town and looking into all the corners, finding hidden ways and stuff like that is really fun. It gives the game a playful vibe, and just fits the tone very well. I mean, the more I play, the more it feels like the game was very intentionally made to be a lighthearted adventure, where searching and finding hidden, little things is part of the fun. Just in contrast to the grim reality of FF II.

Presumably I should go back to the Famicom version, even with the downgrade to the music?

I find the games to be different enough, that I would totally recommend playing the Famicom version. If you are into old-school JRPGs, that is. It's at least a very different flavor of the same game, if nothing else.

In FF 1 there were a rare few objects in towns and dungeons that you could 'interact" with outside of your quest objectives but all you got out of that was a little bit of text.

I only remember the well in the first town, which just seemed like a good-natured jab at DQ, where you can go into every well, if I remember correctly. But it only was a background thing, which grew over II to an integral part of the game in III. But you are right, it was there from the very beginning. I find it fascinating, how this stuff develops throught over the games. I really wished there was more material available, about their thought process in using stuff from old games and how they made something more interesting out of them.

Also the small enemy groups just kinda suck

I always was curious about why this is a problem. I'm not judging, just honestly curious. I never got the feeling that it made the game worse.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I made it a bit further into the game. I think I left off, right after defeating the Djinn. So, yeah, like gorha mentioned, we get a canoe (which I'm curious about, it was pretty important for a part of FF I, then less so in II and I guess it will have just this single use in III, which might be why it vanished afterwards completely), to get our airship back. It does, indeed, get upgraded, just to completely explode when we ram it against the stupid rock. Which, uh, I didn't expect.

Cid accompanies us back to town south of the starting area (I have forgotten the name, let's call it Cids town for now). Cid makes his way back to his wife, who is very ill. But a traveling wizard has hidden an elixir in town, as one of the NPCs mentiones, and after finding it we actually have a choice between keeping it, or giving it to Cids wife.

I really like this little side quest. It's just another part of the game that makes you look around and be rewarded for talking to people. It also gives you an actual choice. You don't know what will happen, if you help Cids wife, except that you sacrificed a great healing item, that you will not get for a long time, I suppose. You might get nothing, except some flavour text. But, being heroes, we obviously give up our elixir to help someone in need. To thank us, Cid gives us access to his secret hangar, where we get some more treasure. And I think some of it is even hidden further away, inside a secret passage. I like these secrets-within-secrets.

We don't have much to go on now, but we learn that a young woman misses her love, Desch, who went to the top of the mountain in the south. Were a dragon is supposed to be. I actually forgot why exactly he went there, but, as there is nothing else to do, we follow him.

There is a cool scene, of a dragon flying to the top of the mountain, when we enter. It's just the dragon sprite, flapping it's wings, circling around the top until it is gone, but it made me really excited to go up there. The dungeon itself wasn't that big or interesting, except that it made the Horrible Birds come back. They can turn you to stone, and Gold Needles can't be bought, so you need to make it without wasting them all. Which isn't a problem, I only had to use one, but it seems like an oversight. Or you just need a bit of luck, to make it through that one screen.

On top of the mountain, the dragon takes us, and drops us into his nest. Where we learn that it is Bahamuts Nest, which, of course, means that this jerk is Bahamut, King of the Dragons! I completely missed that he wasn't actually there in FF II. I'm glad he is back. There are some hungry baby Bahamuts, and also Desch, who had lost his memory, I guess. He also got it back pretty soon, so no worries.

We soon get attacked by the Mama Bahamut, who is way too strong for us. Desch tells us to flee, which doesn't even work all the time, so I guess you could just die here? Again, not a problem, the chances are probably high enough, and Bahamut seems to only attack one person at a time. She probably doesn't want to obliterate the food for her chicks.

But we flee, and run in terror from the monster, falling down the mountain. We find ourselves on the other side of the mountain range, where healing and reviving water waits for us. We also learn about a gnome village, and Desch just has the Mini spell with him.

I do like how they include these status spells, that were purely a combat thing in FF II, as puzzle pieces into this game. It can be annoying, but at least the two dungeons we will soon face, aren't too bad. It's certainly a cool idea.

So, we turn ourselves into mini-versions, and enter the little village, with adorable little gnomes and adorable, little houses. And, like always, poking around gets rewarded. There is the Cura spell, which Picard immediately learns (he is a White Mage again, the attack power of his Red Mage form felt lackluster, and now he just has more spell charges), and a Flame Staff, which I forgot to try using in battle. Still need to see if they already get broken, when used that way.

In mini-form, we make our way through a cave, which leads to the vikings hideout. Desch thankfully tells us a bit about the disadvantages of being mini (defense of 1, no attack power, we just should go to the back row and be mages). With that setup, and a level 1 attack spell for everyone, the dungeon is pretty simple. I think it was only one screen, no branching pathways or anything. And the monsters all died to one spell.

Oh, I also learned that, while physical attacks get redirected, if the target is dead, this is not true for spells. They just vanish. So you still have to choose your targets carefully, if you are a caster. No problem here, because everything dies to one casting of Fire.

When we meet up with the vikings (who are just pirates), we learn that Nepto, the Sea Dragon was woken up by the big Earthquake, and destroyed all but one of their ships in his rage. There is one left, and they offered it to me, if I just could calm down Nepto.

Before leaving, I stole all their treasure, including the level 2 elemental spells! I guess the idea was to distribute them equally to your three black mages, but I just put them all on Janewe. She is the only one who will stay in that job, after all, would be a waste.

When stepping outside, you can totally take the ship immediately, but are attacked by the angry Nepto. Who is Leviathan, I guess? Even though he looks pretty dorky:

50911261472_934a59f3d9_m.jpg


I guess he is supposed to look dangerous, with all his teeth, but he seems more like he is happy to see us. Me too, buddy. Just wished you wouldn't completely wipe me. It do find the whole design pretty nice looking, though. Like many of the monsters, there is a certain cartoony quality to them, which adds to the games light-hearted touch.

The battle is actually quite survivable for some time. But at some point, he just smashes into one character for a few hundred points of damage, and that is way too much at this point.

So, we had to make our way on foot to the Nepto Temple. Inside, there is a statue of Neptos head. We, again, have to turn to mini-form. Which is annoying, if you are like me, and changed back to physical jobs. Because, while you can turn back to mages immediately, you have no spell charges than, and have to rest first. But no biggie, the pirate hideout isn't far away.

Also, there is a cute, little cannon in the hideout which you can fire. And an adorable cannon-ball flys out, into the water. It's really cute. I love that they included all these little flourishes into the game.

It's another easy mini-dungeon, except that the enemies are a bit stronger, and throw spells at us. They hurt, up to 100 HP to one character, with everyone having only around 200 HP. Thankfully, they are too dumb to be really dangerous, but I needed my White Mage.

The dungeon is just three screens, with a fourth that included a bunch of treasure chests. At the end, we meet a big rat. I guess it's even big for normal people? I mean, we are mini, of course it's a giant. The jerk stole one of the statues eyes, which makes the dragon go crazy. So we fight.

Unfortunately, the stupid rat is clever enough to attack Janewe for the first two turns, and just kills her. Which is annoying, as she had the level 2 elemental spells, and could deal over 100 damage. Kirk and Sisko only dealt around 20, and I forgot to use the pretty great Aero spell that Picard had.

In the early game, White Mages are pretty great. They can heal, but also have access to some painful attack magic.

Oh, I took a screenshot of the adorable, defeated mini-Janewe:

50911134561_14e11b589a_q.jpg


Completely flat. It's so cute!

Before I forget, I wanted to mention that this game is the first that lets you defend! But only as a special command, for now only the Knight and Monk (and maybe the Freelancer?) can use it, the mages have, of course, there magic command.

Anyway, we still win. This time, we have to get out ourselves, but the dungeon is short. Still, I was out of spell charges afterwards, partly due to having lost one character. Still was glad to get out. The vikings stood to their word, and gave me their ship.

I immediately went back to Cids Town, to bring Desch back to his girlfriend. But he seems to have more pressing matters, and won't leave us, until we spoke to King Argus about an airship. Which is our next quest. But it has to wait for next time.

---------------------------------------------------

For the record, I really enjoy this game. It feels so vibrant and lively, and like such a fun adventure.

I also thought that this game basically ignored FF II, and was just a Bigger and Better version of I, or maybe just one that is more realized, with regards to the vision everyone had of I.

But II isn't forgotten. The focus on story is turned down, but there are still mini-arcs, even if they have more to do with the guest characters. In FF I, it really feels like the stories are already told, and we just make a bad situation un-stuck. We never really interact with anyone, except the monsters. It's like the Heroes of Light are not quite part of the world.

Here, it is different, and that is probably due to the lessons the team has learned from FF II. The heroes are still mainly ciphers, but you have actual characters with motivations and goals now. It really adds to the world.
 

JBear

Internet's foremost Bertolli cosplayer
(He/Him)
a Flame Staff, which I forgot to try using in battle. Still need to see if they already get broken, when used that way.
Don't click if you'd prefer to find out for yourself: IIRC, that staff is reusable. When I went through the mini-dungeons, I gave it to one of my physical fighters so I didn't have to job change him and had him use it every turn. In fact, I want to say I had two such staves, so I was able to keep a Fighter and a Monk? I believe the second one was well-hidden.

Anyway, I love the mini-dungeons. They're cute, easy, fun, and short, and I've never understood why so many people complain about them.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I've tended to chalk it up to expectations from later Job System games--V, Tactics, maybe even X-2--being retroactively applied to the formative example of the concept--since III went largely unplayed for so long outside of Japan--and how those don't necessarily align with what the designers were interested in doing at the time of III's creation. If the subsequent games define themselves by the free experimentation in their systems in players' eyes, the "forced" job segments that III uses as narrative tools and fun setpiece concepts to underline the versatility of the systems at hand often get read as a mistake in that context. I think similar sentiments affect the cooler or conflicted reception to something like The 4 Heroes of Light too: what's so strongly associated with freedom of play and play mechanics is rejected if it places restrictions on those options over the course of the story it wants to tell and impress upon the audience.
 

Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
Having the guest characters actually fight with you, even if you have no control over them, seems like a nice change, to make them feel more like they are actually with you.

Number Four Five is helping!

I only remember the well in the first town, which just seemed like a good-natured jab at DQ, where you can go into every well, if I remember correctly.
There were also the graves in Elftown (which I think had another jab at DQ in some versions) and the "viewing window" in the Flying/Floating Fortress.

we get a canoe (which I'm curious about, it was pretty important for a part of FF I, then less so in II and I guess it will have just this single use in III, which might be why it vanished afterwards completely)
That is true but I wonder if the raft ride section in 6 was included as a homage to the canoes from the first few games in the series.

Oh, I also learned that, while physical attacks get redirected, if the target is dead, this is not true for spells. They just vanish. So you still have to choose your targets carefully, if you are a caster. No problem here, because everything dies to one casting of Fire.
But does that not matter since you can multi-target the spells?

Oh, I took a screenshot of the adorable, defeated mini-Janewe:

50911134561_14e11b589a_q.jpg


Completely flat. It's so cute!
The alternate forms and their dead sprites are a part of the series that always made me smile. I think it's a shame that the series stopped including them. (Weren't 6 and the Tactics games the last ones that had something like that in them?)
 

Lokii

(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
Oh sorry I misunderstood. You meant specifically a knocked out sprite of the alternate form. I'm looking to see what happens if you KO as a frog in 7R but it's not an easily googable subject.
 
I was surprised to see monsters in Ur at all, but they were just goblins. I guess I got lucky and didn't meet anything more dangerous there, or maybe it's a change in the remake? In general, the game hasn't been too hard so far, but back attacks are brutal, both giving the enemies a free round of attacks and reversing your rows. They seem more common in this game than in most RPGs I've played, too. I haven't gotten a game over yet, but I had a close call in the Djinn's cave. Two mummies back attacked me, killed Refia and did a lot of damage to everyone else before going down. The Djinn himself was also potentially threatening, since he would use a physical attack and a Fire spell each turn, and if he used both on the same person, it would nearly kill them - but fortunately, he always spread the attacks around, so a multitarget Cure spell each turn kept everyone healthy enough.

I'd say the characters in this version are a bit stronger, yeah. I can at least say things about each party member that only apply to them. It's affecting how I treat them in gameplay as well: Refia's experience as a smith makes her suitable for Warrior since they get the strongest weapons, Arc is easily frightened, so he becomes a back row caster, Luneth is a fairly generic main character, so he gets Red Mage, whose skillset is similar to that of a Dragon Quest main character (also because he's the one you see outside of battle, and red mages look cool), and Ingus is a Monk because I thought the line about his sword being worth twice those of the others when he didn't have a sword was funny and decided to have him never hold a sword. I'm sure I never gave any thought to whether a job or weapon choice was "in character" for any given Onion Knight over another.

Oh, one thing I keep forgetting to mention is that there are several different attack animations for each weapon, which is pretty neat, but also makes combat take longer. I wouldn't want large enemy groups on top of that, at least not frequently. A little more variety in enemy group size would be nice, though. Nearly every random battle so far has been with exactly two enemies; one is rare, but I see it occasionally, and I think there was a group of three goblins once.
 
I've played up to getting the ship and exploring the sea.

The scene where Bahamut brings you to his nest is a bit different in the remake. It looks like he's just chasing you off the screen, and then you end up in the nest. Kind of weird. I didn't see him flying around the mountain before entering, either. I had much the same experience with the dungeon itself, though, down to only needing to use one gold needle.

Desch joining and giving you Mini after escaping from Bahamut is the same. Desch himself is another guest who helps in battle sometimes, usually by casting Thundara on all enemies. It's pretty great. He occasionally just swings his sword at one enemy, which is substantially less great, but still nice. Even without his help, Luneth using the fire staff from the gnome village and Arc casting either Fire or Blizzard was enough to take out the groups of one or two enemies that are still the norm at this point, so I didn't bother changing Refia or Ingus' jobs, though I did put them in the back row.

The viking hideout still has that cannon! It still serves no purpose except to be a cool little touch in this town, which is a purpose it serves very well. Incidentally, I remember getting stuck here for a while the first time I played this game; I didn't look around on land for Nepto's shrine and thought you were supposed to actually beat Nepto or get past him somehow to reach it. I tried fighting him once this time to see if the fight was any different, and he wasted no time in hitting two characters per turn for four digit damage. I guess that makes it clear that direct combat is not the answer here.

I like the enemies in Nepto's shrine. They're all just small animals that are only threatening because you're tiny. Lots of games make you fight giant rats and worms, but not many make you shrink so that normal-sized ones become monstrous. The shrine also has skulls and bones scattered around, like some other dungeons, but here they're giant sized compared to your characters, which is another nice touch. The treasure chests here are strange, containing a new set of equipment, which doesn't help when you're mini, for the warrior, a job you're not supposed to be using in this dungeon. Still, they go to Refia and are a welcome upgrade once we don't need to be mini anymore. The giant rat boss, like the Djinn, could use both a spell and a physical attack in the same turn, so it was a bit dangerous, but I could have Refia and Ingus toss potions while the mages did damage. Desch cast Thundara twice in this battle, too, which helped a lot, even though it only did about as much as Arc's level 1 spells. I think it's because he targets all enemies even if there's only one, which reminds me: spells do seem to retarget if the target is dead in this version, like physical attacks, but if you choose to cast a spell on all enemies, it will do half damage even if there's only one enemy left by the time it's cast.

Anyway, returning Nepto's eye restores his sanity. He tells you that someone caused the earthquake that seems to be the source of all the problems we've encountered so far, and caused the water to lose its light. It's not very specific, but this is the first time we're hearing of a major villain in this game; up to this point, it seemed like the world was just being threatened by monsters who were unleashed by or capitalizing on a natural disaster. Nepto also gives you the Fang of Water, which goes into your key item list. It's not clear what it's for, but it'll surely be important at some point.

There are lots of places to check out after getting the ship, but I'll save them for another post.
 

MetManMas

Me and My Bestie
(He, him)
I always was curious about why this is a problem. I'm not judging, just honestly curious. I never got the feeling that it made the game worse.
It's kind of a mixed bag. On the one hand, it's nice that battles don't take forever with the smaller monster groups, but on the other enemies are sometimes given ludicrous boosts in power to compensate for you only fighting all of two (rarely three) monsters at a time.

Nothing against the DS remake, but I really wish we would see another Final Fantasy III remake or an official localization of the Famicom game.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
Don't click if you'd prefer to find out for yourself: IIRC, that staff is reusable. When I went through the mini-dungeons, I gave it to one of my physical fighters so I didn't have to job change him and had him use it every turn. In fact, I want to say I had two such staves, so I was able to keep a Fighter and a Monk? I believe the second one was well-hidden.

Thanks! And don't worry, I don't mind being spoilered about stuff.

But does that not matter since you can multi-target the spells?

While multi-targeting feels not as weak as in the second game, it is still considerably weaker than single-targeting. So, depending on the enemies, it might still be a problem.

Nepto also gives you the Fang of Water, which goes into your key item list.

In the Famicom-version, they still haven't figured out that key items might be better put into a seperate place. I will get to that in my post.

It's kind of a mixed bag. On the one hand, it's nice that battles don't take forever with the smaller monster groups, but on the other enemies are sometimes given ludicrous boosts in power to compensate for you only fighting all of two (rarely three) monsters at a time.

I forgot that monsters can attack multiple times. Which I now vaguely remember as really frustrating, especially with bosses. Yeah, I guess it makes sense that this would be more annoying.

---------------------------------------------

After finally getting the ship, it is made clear that the places to go are more restricted than they appear. Your ship can bring you to two new parts of the land, the rest of the ocean is restricted by a maelstrom in a narrow passage.

I find it really interesting, how this game keeps opening up, but only in small increments. First, you soon get an airship, but you are still restricted to a very small place. When that place opens, it feels like new freedom, but you actually can only access one town and one dungeon (which then leads to more adventure). After that, you get the ship, but are still restricted. Like FF I, this game feels more open than it actually is. I'm not sure if this will change, like it did in I, but for now, it always looks like a lot of new space to explore, but the game is still very linear. But, and this is important, it definitely doesn't feel like it.

Part of that is the Easter-Egg-Hunt aspect. I just can't stop talking about how great it is, that especially the towns and castles have all this hidden treasure, and than hidden hallways within hidden hallways. When I played through the game for the first time, I didn't look for this stuff nearly as much.

Like, the first thing I did with my new ship was to move East. Soon, you get to a new landmass with a castle on it. It's Castle Argus, where the king is supposed to know something about airships. But no one is here. Weird. But it has a ton of hidden treasure, plus two locked doors. More on them later. For now, I just looted all the regular stuff, and got probably 7000 Gil out of it. Pretty great, that's a ton of cash.

To the north, there is a tower, very near to the maelstrom that is blocking our way to the rest of the world (I guess, and I know even than, only sort of). I didn't go inside, but went further West. Soon, I reached a cave. To the South of the cave, there was a lake with a giant, moving shadow. Leviathan? We will see later, I'm sure, for now, there was no way to access it.

But we could access the cave, and are greeted by ten sages, who tell us vague stuff about the Darkness, and how it will conquer the world. Something like that. These sages are a specific race, called the Gulgans. The are born blind, but can see into the future. I feel like there is something interesting to say there, but I can't really think of anything specific. It's a neat idea, if nothing else.

In his own room, there is the eleventh sage, who gives us the Toad spell. Similar to the Mini-spell, it is mainly used to grant us access to certain dungeons, by turning us into helpless Toads.

I really like this, that the team used these spells from the second game to create small...puzzles? I mean, that's probably the wrong word, because you know that you need to use them for access. But it's just nice that the game actually makes it clear "You become tiny, or a frog, and can do specific things that way, stuff you couldn't do before.". It adds another bit of flavour to this weird, fantastical world, and makes it a bit more vibrant. I mean, just the idea that you have to turn yourself into frogs, to solve a problem, is so nice and childlike.

I probably repeat myself, but I really love this world, and how it is a playground for fun ideas. It really feels like the creators wanted to replicate an adventure that a child would play out with it's friends, where they have to do the weirdest stuff. It's a lovely world.

Desch, our companion who lost his memory, also learns that his destiny awats him at the Tower of Owen, the one near the maelstrom. So, this is obviously our next goal. But before I went there, I made a short trip to look at where we can go to, elsewise. There is one more town in the south, with a desert in the East.

It's the town of Tokkul, and it has been attacked by Argonian soldiers. Which is weird, the castle was empty. But maybe I'm getting things mixed up here. The town contains nothing, except for scared villagers and destroyed houses. There is also a kid that runs from us, and his mother, who explains that her husband was made into a slave. We need to save him. But that has to come later (deserts are bad news, in general). First, we will visit the Tower of Owen.

The first thing you see, is a place populated by frogs. Even in frog form, you don't understand them, which was very disappointing. But this, and the words of the Gulgan, clue you in, that you need to become frogs, to actually enter the Tower. Elsewise, there is no visible way to progress here. At one specific place, you can enter, when you have transformed.

The tower itself looks really cool, probably the prettiest dungeon so far. The walls are all made up of chains and technical stuff. It's really neat, and a big progress, compared to FF II. A strange voice talks to us from time to time (or, more specifically, Desch). It taunts us.

The tower itself is one of the harder dungeons in the series. It is long, and the monsters are strong. Kirk, my knight, has two weapons, but the lack of a shield made him take around 100 damage from one hit. Which is a lot, considering he has only 300. Thankfully, he never died. But the game shows, again, that it has teeth. A shield would probably help, but I don't want to weaken him too much.

The tower has something like 11 floors, and takes pretty long. I really learned how valuable and potent potions are. By now, I can easily buy a lot of them. Which is good, because my White Mage has not enough charges for something that long. He has more than in FF I, but I still wished for more.

At the top, we find Medusa, who was the one who spoke to us. She wants to kill us, and is the first to actually speak of Xande, her master. A battle starts, which seems to be a pure game of luck? She only used one move, break, which I think is an instant death spell? That would explain, why it never did anything. So she went down pretty easily.

With her out of the way, we have access to the flame at the top, and Desch finally gets his memory back. He is actually one of the Ancients, and the guardian of the tower. Something doesn't work, which seems to have created the maelstrom. To repair it, he has to jump into the flame and die in the process. Sorry, I'm not sure if it was me or the translation, but I wasn't too clear why he had to jump into the flame. Maybe gorha can clear that up a bit.

So, like in II, a guest character sacrifices himself. Unlike II, we take a lot of time. We just stand there, with sad music, and wait for 30 seconds, or something like that, with nothing moving. The game really wants us to feel, that this is a sad moment. It worked for me.

We than get teleported outside, and see the maelstrom gone. We can finally visit (sort of) the rest of the world! I guess the correct thing to do, would be to finally go to Tokkul, the destroyed village, and help them. But eh, I want to know what other stuff is out there. Which is a good thing, as the game will actually tell us later, when it is time to help Tokkul.

I didn't look everywhere, though. Finally out on the big ocean, I went West, and soon found a new cave. Inside, there were dwarfs! They were nice to me, but were distraught, because one of their horns was stolen. The thief fled through the lake in their cave.

Another situation, that demands the use of Toad. We follow, and make it through an easy dungeon. It does look pretty cool, though! Instead of walls, we see that there is just nothing that will stop us from falling to our doom, if we aren't careful. Except that we play a JRPG, and can't fall down there, but the thought counts.

While the cave was easy on the whole (and nicely short), there were two enemies that I loved, though I also hated one of them:

50923041517_dc0371c22a_m.jpg


The pudding, or whatever his actual name is, looks just perfect. He is so grumpy, I want to cuddle him. Look at his...arms(?), I thing he is complaining. Adorable, and easily killed.

The bomb, now, looks great. But he is also a jerk, and can just explode now, whenever he feels like it. Which is a problem, because the explosion does over 300 damage, which is enough to kill all, except for Sisko, the Monk (and even he has to be fully healed). Sisko actually died, and I had to waste a Pheonix Down on him. Which is bad, because I only have a handful of them at this moment, with no way of getting more, except for finding one in a random chest.

But we soon make our way to the thief. His name is Gutsco, and he challenges us (of course). He wasn't particularly challenging, but his design was interesting, I thought:

50922915521_c001aa531e_o.png


The poor snake is his only piece of clothing. I dunno, he just looked so goofy. It looks like he is strangling the poor animal.

Anyway, he soon falls. But when we make our way back, a white line is following us. It looks pretty weird, and like a bug, but it moves exactly like a guest character.

When we are back at the dwarf village, we go to the place where the second horn is, to place the stolen one back. But TWIST! Gutsco isn't dead, the white line was his shadow, who followed us. He takes form again, steals both horns (Horns of Ice), and makes his way to the temple in the north, where the Fire Crystal is. The horns will make him immune to the heat.

We follow, of course.

The Fire Crystal cave is a relatively straight-forward dungeon, with a few dead ends that have treasure chests, just sitting there. We walk through lava, which doesn't hurt us, surprisingly. Let's say the Wind Crystal protected us.

Not much was happening, so we find ourselves soon in the chamber of the Fire Crystal, where Gutsco is waiting for us. He seems to have absorbed the power of the Crystal, and has transformed himself into a dragon.

That one was probably the hardest boss fight, up to now. He only used one attack, a strong fire-breath that hurt everyone for over 100 damage, which was too much, even for Cura. The only one not in danger was Kirk, because he wore fire-resistant equipment. But Sisko the Monk and Janewe the Black Mage died. Still, after four or five rounds, the dragon was dead, and we finally got our second set of jobs!

Before I get to that, I just want to end the story part. I went back to the dwarves, giving them back their horns. As a thank you, they opened their treasure chamber, with a ton of chests.

When I wanted to leave (or maybe when I entered?), a man appeared, asking for help. He was from Tokkul (the destroyed village that I have ignored, for now) and dies, after telling us of the horrible fate of the village. So, this is were we go next. After we explored the rest of the world, of course.

Anyway, I took a look at the new jobs. They are Knight, Thief, Archer and Scholar. Obviously, Kirk got promoted from Fighter to Knight. I guess that one is a straight upgrade. But I didn't know what to do with the other three jobs. I soon got a new bow and new arrows, but I like my Monk, and my Black Mage seems to be an integral part of the team. Thief is a class that I never cared much about, and considering that this is an early FF, I can't imagine that there is too much interesting stuff to steal. I'd prefer to keep a high damage output.

I did, however, change Picard from White Mage to Scholar. Which is a fitting job, considering his name. I do like the sprite, it looks like an Austrian musician from the 19th century, or something (I hope I don't get the time wrong here, music history isn't my strength). Considering that my White Mage doesn't have too many spell charges anyway, Cura being not enough to effectively heal my party and me healing by using potions most of the time, that job change seems to make sense. Scholars heal more with potions, so that should work out fine. And, as I found out, they hit pretty hard with their books, even from the back row.

We'll see how it goes. I can always change Picard back to a White Mage, but I hope that I can wait it out, until I get to the next crystal and get a clear upgrade for a healing mage.

One thing that finally created a problem here was the small inventory. There just isn't enough, and when I got the treasure from the dwarves, I had to throw stuff away, or rather sell it, two times to get everything. When changing your job, the character needs to unequip everything, which wasn't possible. I actually sold usables like Antidots, because I could easily buy that stuff back now. Thankfully, there aren't so many key items, like there were in FF II. But the Fang of Water still takes up a bit of space.

I think this game introduces the Fat Chocobo? I have a Gysahl Green, I should probably try if it will summon him. But I think in the West, there is the town of Gysahl, where I will probably find more of those, so I should probably go there first.

One of the dwarfs also thanked me, by giving me a magic key. In the west, there is supposed to be a key maker, so I should look there later. But for now, I used it up to open one of the locked doors in Castle Argus. Nothing too great in there, but that's ok. I got a full set of Scholar equipment already from the dwarves, I just sold the second one. And the key is one of the Zelda-type. It broke after one use.

Well, that's all for now. I'm looking forward to seeing more of the world, and of this fun adventure. It really feels a lot like a predecessor to V. They have a very similar tone, V just worked it out more. I'm looking forward to replaying that, and comparing the two games.
 

conchobhar

What's Shenmue?
Seeing this thread going again was enough to push me into playing Final Fantasy III, too. Granted, I didn't need much of a push (it's the only one of the first ten I haven't yet played, and I was already intending to get to it sooner than later), but hey, that's still something, right?

I'm not very far yet— I only just broke the rock and made it to Cid's hometown of Canaan— but I'm enjoying it. There's a bit more of a narrative than I was expecting: from the Crystal explicitly setting up the premise of the game, to the party members speaking and weighing in on events, to NPCs explicitly asking your help and pointing you in the right directions, to other NPCs tagging along with the party (and having some things to say, too). It's not much, even for the era, but from the way that people talk about this game— as a return to FF1, or a Job System Puzzlebox— I wasn't expecting even the slightest amount of story. I think you're right, Felix, that the influence of FF2 can already be felt.

Aside from that, it's also fun to see Sakaguchi's sense of world map design and progression. I laughed when the airship hit the rock and immediately exploded, but of course it would: there's nothing Sakaguchi loves more than carefully controlling how much of a space is open to the player, and giving and taking away vehicles to accomplish that (this peaks in FF5, incidentally). More specifically, the part of starting out in an open, but small and self-contained area, and where escaping it is the goal, is a Sakaguchi trademark. It's really fun to play the games he designed, because his whole approach to RPGs is so different from his contemporaries.
 

Lokii

(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
Aside from that, it's also fun to see Sakaguchi's sense of world map design and progression. I laughed when the airship hit the rock and immediately exploded, but of course it would: there's nothing Sakaguchi loves more than carefully controlling how much of a space is open to the player, and giving and taking away vehicles to accomplish that (this peaks in FF5, incidentally). More specifically, the part of starting out in an open, but small and self-contained area, and where escaping it is the goal, is a Sakaguchi trademark. It's really fun to play the games he designed, because his whole approach to RPGs is so different from his contemporaries.

You're in for a treat then.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
I'm glad to know that you are giving it a try. It's a really fun game, and the way of designing semi-open maps that get bigger and bigger is really nice to experience.

I think I just shook my head, when the airship exploded. Of course it would, I mean, obviously. :D
 
I still have an old FFIII DS cart I never got past twenty hours of playtime.

Is there any particularly good guides out there for it? I think it could be fun after all this discussion... but not enough without help.
 
I did things in a different order after getting the ship, heading west first and finding Tokkul. The village has been raided by soldiers from castle Argus, and they took everything of value and enslaved the able-bodied men (I think the remake's translation didn't use the word "slave", but it was pretty clear anyway), so most of the people here are old men, plus a few women and children. When we first enter, they think we're from Argus, too, and run away from us. In one of the two houses we can enter, Luneth convinces a mother shielding her son that we're not here to kidnap him, and then we can talk to people in town normally. There are no shops, and not as many hidden items as in other towns, but the people in the other house have hidden some weapons and offer them to us. They turn out to be a new weapon and armor for a monk. Ingus was far behind the other characters in attack and defense by this time, and I was thinking of changing his job, but these bring him back up to par. The village elder says that the soldiers came from the nearby desert, and another NPC talks about something moving around in the desert, so that seems like the next thing to check out.

There is some kind of structure flying around in the desert. I guess that's castle Argus, but since it's flying, we can't reach it. Continuing west, though, we find... a chocobo forest! And as exciting as this is, it's less exciting than what we find a bit further west: another town, at what appears to be the edge of the world. It looks like there's cloud cover below it. Entering, we find that this is the Village of the Ancients. NPCs here give us quite a lore dump. One explains that the whole world as we know it is just one continent floating high in the sky, but there are other continents on the surface of the world below. Another talks about the wills of light and darkness, kept in balance by the crystals, which choose four warriors whenever the balance is disturbed. He says that the balance has shifted towards darkness, and so four warriors of light will be chosen; he doesn't seem to realize that he's talking to them. Still, it implies that this has happened before. Other NPCs here talk about the Great Will that they follow, which commands them to protect the Tower of Owen. There are also shops here with a bunch of new equipment and spells, but this game likes to hand out lots of free stuff if you explore thoroughly, and there are more places to explore with the ship, so I'm not buying anything yet.

Finally, a kid in this town offers a prize if we can ride around the continent on a chocobo, so we leave for a bit to do that. There's a convenient strip of land all around the edge of the continent, which is quite small now that we can see it all like this, especially at chocobo speed. There's a town on the eastern side of the continent that's blocked off by mountains. Returning to the village of the ancients, the prize for doing this is Gnomish Bread, a cheap consumable item... but the real prize is the trip itself. This is the single moment I remember best from playing the original game. Seeing the limits of a world that seemed, until just now, to be so expansive was really cool.

Northeast of Tokkul is a forest full of fairies. There's a giant hole in the ground here, and the fairies say that a great tree used to be here, but it was taken to the desert by the wizard Hein, and the forest will die without it. So maybe that thing flying around the desert was the tree, not castle Argus?

North of Tokkul we find the empty castle Argus, which is indeed not a tree. It's not confirmed yet, but it seems likely that Hein took everyone here to the desert as well; that would explain why soldiers wearing Argus' emblem were coming from there. There's lots of treasure hidden in the castle, some behind locked doors, which I briefly change Refia into a Thief to open. Most of the equipment sold in the village of the ancients can be found here, along with enough money to buy the rest if we want it. There's a recovery spring here, too, which is convenient when the nearest inns are in the viking hideout and village of the ancients, both of which are pretty far away from everywhere else we might want to go at this point.

A little bit north of Argus is the Tower of Owen that we heard about from the ancients. Just east of it is a whirlpool that blocks access to another part of the sea, and to the west is Gulgan Gulch, where the Gulgans, a race of blind sages, live. They warn that the earthquake and monster attacks are just the beginning, and if the balance of light and dark is not restored, the whole world will be swallowed by the void. They also tell Desch that his destiny awaits in the tower, and give us the Toad spell to enter it.

There's another chocobo forest north of Gulgan Gulch, but it's out of the way enough that it's not that useful. In the original, it might be a good place to visit the Fat Chocobo to drop off some items while looting the castle and tower, but in the remake, there's been no indication that a Fat Chocobo exists, and the apparent inventory size keeps expanding as I pick up more stuff. There's probably no limit to how much you can carry in this version, beyond the usual limit of 99 of the same item.

The ground floor of the tower is full of frogs. I, too, was disappointed that even after casting Toad on myself, I couldn't talk to them. I thought there would be some kind of frog-shaped entryway to the rest of the tower, but there isn't; you just have to walk into the middle of a dead end room, and then you find yourself in the dungeon proper. The voice that taunts you as you move up the tower has its own little scene each time, and seems to be talking to your party specifically in this version, not to Desch; your party leader (Refia for me at this point, since I moved her to the front to open the doors in castle Argus) looks around for the source of the voice, and Desch doesn't even appear during these scenes. There are a lot of floors in this dungeon, but most of them are pretty small. Still, it's the longest and toughest dungeon so far by a significant margin. Many enemies here can use magic to do a lot of damage to the whole party, but the biggest threat is the Petit Mages, which look like squirrels bouncing on their tails, which can also petrify with their physical attacks. I think gold needles are buyable now, in the village of the ancients, but I had forgotten to stock up on items there, so I only had 2 of them going into the tower. Fortunately, I only ended up needing 1.

Medusa fights similarly to previous bosses in this version, using a mix of spells and physical attacks and attacking twice per turn, but she has the -ra spells, so she's considerably more dangerous. Towards the end of the fight, she used Stare, which I assume would have petrified someone; fortunately, it missed. Also, she's a whole, humanoid medusa on the field, but in battle, she's just a giant medusa head. After the battle, Desch finally remembers who he is: an ancient tasked with protecting the tower. Because it's already damaged, he has to jump into the flames to try to repair it, or else the whole continent will fly into the sun or something. The exact mechanics of the Tower of Owen aren't much clearer in the remake, but the implication seems to be that if Desch hadn't lost his memories and left the tower, he could've prevented the damage from getting this bad in the first place, without dying. His death scene is pretty effective, especially since he participated in battle in this version; that really made him feel more like a companion, not just a tagalong, and he'd been with us for nearly half the game up to this point. We find ourselves back on the ship after this scene, and the whirlpool that was blocking off the rest of the sea disappears. That's where I stopped for today.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
In case it's not obvious, I'm looking forward to more write-ups, conchobar. I'm happy to know that people give this game a (new) chance, due to this thread. :)

I still have an old FFIII DS cart I never got past twenty hours of playtime.

Is there any particularly good guides out there for it? I think it could be fun after all this discussion... but not enough without help.

I'm glad you want to participate. :) I unfortunately don't know about a good guide. Maybe this picture-LP would be of help? Elsewise, maybe just ask here? gorha plays at a nice pace, and there are others who have played through the DS version, I'm sure you would find answers to your questions in this thread.

Finally, a kid in this town offers a prize if we can ride around the continent on a chocobo, so we leave for a bit to do that. There's a convenient strip of land all around the edge of the continent, which is quite small now that we can see it all like this, especially at chocobo speed. There's a town on the eastern side of the continent that's blocked off by mountains. Returning to the village of the ancients, the prize for doing this is Gnomish Bread, a cheap consumable item... but the real prize is the trip itself. This is the single moment I remember best from playing the original game. Seeing the limits of a world that seemed, until just now, to be so expansive was really cool.

I remember that moment too! It's one of the few moments that stuck (the others are the final dungeon, the fight against the Djinn and being shot down, when flying over a certain castle/town). Realizing that what you thought to be the world is a really cool moment. Or maybe thinking, that the world here is actually a disc, that you can fall off from.

There's another chocobo forest north of Gulgan Gulch, but it's out of the way enough that it's not that useful. In the original, it might be a good place to visit the Fat Chocobo to drop off some items while looting the castle and tower, but in the remake, there's been no indication that a Fat Chocobo exists, and the apparent inventory size keeps expanding as I pick up more stuff. There's probably no limit to how much you can carry in this version, beyond the usual limit of 99 of the same item.

I read that even the DS/PSP version has an item limit that you can actually fill out, but it is supposed to be so big, that it's actually pretty hard to fill up. But yeah, for practical purposes, the Fat Chocobo is completely pointless in the newer versions. Not so in the original, I guess.
 

conchobhar

What's Shenmue?
In case it's not obvious, I'm looking forward to more write-ups, conchobar. I'm happy to know that people give this game a (new) chance, due to this thread. :)
Thanks! I wasn't sure that I would keep posting about it, since I'm behind you and gorha and don't want to retread the same things, but I'll try to pop in every now and then.
 
I'm glad you want to participate. :) I unfortunately don't know about a good guide. Maybe this picture-LP would be of help? Elsewise, maybe just ask here? gorha plays at a nice pace, and there are others who have played through the DS version, I'm sure you would find answers to your questions in this thread.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll probably go troll gamefaqs or similar for something as well. Good drops and chances AGAINST death in battle to you.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
Thief is a class that I never cared much about, and considering that this is an early FF, I can't imagine that there is too much interesting stuff to steal. I'd prefer to keep a high damage output.

There isn't much of interest to steal (the remake changes things some), but because of how FFIII doles out equipment, there comes a point where a Thief might very well be the strongest character one can have thanks to the gear available to them at that point, so don't discount them entirely. Their Escape command is also somewhat handy in negating one of the most brutal things about the game's design, in that any character attempting to run from battle has their defenses drop to a flat zero. Escape is a guaranteed retreat from any battle that can be abandoned in such a way.
 
I played a little bit this morning, not making much progress but revisiting some towns. First, the village of the ancients has the Teleport spell for sale, which I forgot to buy before. Most dungeons so far have either been one way trips or just warped me out upon beating the boss anyway, but it's good to have a quick escape available. Also, a couple of NPCs here whom I either missed or forgot about before explain a bit more about the Tower of Owen and the history of the world. The tower is a pillar holding the continent in place, so I guess it really would either crash down to earth or fly into space if the tower collapsed. Also, there was a disaster in the past called the Wrath of the Light, where the balance between light and dark shifted too far towards the light, and the world was saved by four warriors of darkness.

Then I went back to Canaan to check on Salina, Desch's girlfriend. We tell her what happened to him, and she says something like, "I hope he comes back soon. Be safe, Desch!" Well... I guess it wouldn't be that surprising if he shows up again, especially if the tower really is connected to the surface. This does seem like the kind of story where someone could fall from above the clouds, through a tube full of lava, and be fine.

Also, while poking around the eastern part of the sea, I ended up back at the healing spring near where we landed after escaping from Bahamut's nest with Desch. The gnome there gave me a second copy of the Mini spell.

For new progress, all I did was sail to the eastern edge of the continent to check out the town I saw there while riding the chocobo around. It turned out to be Gysahl, a farming village with sheep, chocobos and Gysahl greens. An NPC here says to check the tree in the middle of a chocobo forest, and when I do, the "smells like chocobos" message and the prompt to use an item appear, so it looks like the fat chocobo is in this version after all. Even though inventory space isn't much of a concern, I bought a few greens just in case. The magic shop in Gysahl sells some level 4 spells, but they're all ailment inflicting spells that don't seem too useful when random monsters usually go down in one round of attacks, and buying them now would take most of my money. I guess I should remember to come back for them? We can also buy magic keys here, which would be great if the first set of jobs in this version didn't include Thief.

Oh, and I forgot to mention it last time, but if you press square in the Tower of Owen after turning your party into frogs, there's a scene where everyone just hops around and croaks at each other for a few seconds. It's great.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
Thanks! I wasn't sure that I would keep posting about it, since I'm behind you and gorha and don't want to retread the same things, but I'll try to pop in every now and then.

Sure, no need to go into too much detail, just inform us about stuff that jumped out to you. :)

There isn't much of interest to steal (the remake changes things some), but because of how FFIII doles out equipment, there comes a point where a Thief might very well be the strongest character one can have thanks to the gear available to them at that point, so don't discount them entirely. Their Escape command is also somewhat handy in negating one of the most brutal things about the game's design, in that any character attempting to run from battle has their defenses drop to a flat zero. Escape is a guaranteed retreat from any battle that can be abandoned in such a way.

I didn't know about the reduction in defense, when trying to flee. Up to now, it didn't matter, because I fight every fight anyway. But I'll keep it in mind. Thanks for mentioning it.

Also, while poking around the eastern part of the sea, I ended up back at the healing spring near where we landed after escaping from Bahamut's nest with Desch. The gnome there gave me a second copy of the Mini spell.

Huh, that's interesting. I would expect oversights like this to happen in the original. But than, maybe it's intended? More Mini-spells wouldn't hurt.

Oh, and I forgot to mention it last time, but if you press square in the Tower of Owen after turning your party into frogs, there's a scene where everyone just hops around and croaks at each other for a few seconds. It's great.

I vaguely remember that. :D

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After thinking it over, I decided that it's in the spirit of this project to actually try out what the game gives me. So, instead of sticking with a White and Black Mage, I gave everyone a new job. It helped, that there are exactly four new ones. So, let's go into a bit of detail. I used the new jobs, while making my way through Heins castle, so I have an idea of how useful they are, by now.

The Fighter is a very useful job, with great equipment, of course. There isn't too much to say about it, it's just what it's name says, someone who deals a lot of damage. Their HP also increase at a good pace. As mentioned before, the Knight is the clear, next step. He hits hard, his defense is great and he is pretty slow. Also, he looks great, with his cape. Kirk is my main damage dealer.

For the record, I used a Red Mage for some time. His attack was very lackluster, so I changed him back to a White Mage.

The White Mage is actually surprisigly strong. I think I mentioned that already, but he can actually attack with his spells, because the first dungeon includes a lot of undead, and after that, he immediately gets Aero, a level 2 spell and pretty strong. He also heals, of course. Unfortunately, even with more charges, I was running low and switched to using potions for healing purposes. Aero was nice, but with only 5 charges or so, I never used it, because I wanted to reserve it for the boss. Using the staffs wasn't that helpful either, the spells they produced were pretty weak.

So, considering that my healing was done via potions most of the time, I made Picard into a scholar. Who is actually really useful. His two abilities are of limited use. There is Study, which showed me the HP of a monster (which is nice, but nothing more), and Scan, which showed it's weaknesses. Both are kind of ok, but not a big deal. The main draw is, that they can use items with higher efficiency. Plus, and this was the real surprise, they can hit REALLY hard with their fat tomes. If you look around a bit, you find two tomes for each of fire, ice and thunder. Even from the backrow, my scholar got hits in that would rival the damage of the knight. The elemental property helped, of course, but considering that you get these books that way, that's a perk of the job. They miss often, though, but that might be because they are sitting in the back row. Oh, right, they do good damage from the back row. Really a pleasant surprise.

Janewe was my Black Mage, and did fine. Especially against bosses, when she would through -ara spells around, she would be pretty badass. But elsewise, the level 1 spells weren't that amazing, even with the boosts from the staffs you find. And they are also restricted to the 15 charges or so, I think even less. A nice job, but not essential.

So I made her into a Ranger. Which isn't a bad change, because at this point, you get a new bow and can by an infinite amount of the elemental arrows. If the monster is weak to the element of the arrow, she often one-shots it. Again, from the safety of the back-row, of course. I even forgot to get her defensive equipment, and it wasn't a big deal. She is also quite fast. The only annoying thing is, that, while I can carry up to 99 arrows (I guess), I can only equip 20. I realized that at sea, when she suddenly started to punch with her fists. But that is only a minor annoyance. You just have to un- and reequip her arrows every few battles. Not a big deal. Again, a very nice class, and a good replacement for the Black Mage.

Finally, Sisko is was my Monk. Monks are, of course, great. They need no, or nearly no, equipment, they are pretty strong themselves, and they get a ton of HP. Very good, and it might be a good idea to have everyone get a few levels as a Monk, just for that reason. They can't abuse elemental weaknesses, though. But on the whole, a pretty good job.

Because I was curious, I switched him into a Theif. They can do up to four hits with one attack. Which would be impressive, if that amount would increase, but at least for now, it didn't. I also haven't found good equipment for them. I mean, his HP are high enough that he can take a lot of damage, and the monsters in Heins castle aren't that big of a deal (at least in the sense of pure damage). And you can steal magical one-shot items (you know, arctic winds and stuff), which is useful. They also do open closed doors, so you can just change someone into a thief, if you find one of those. Or get a bunch of magical keys. Alltogether, I'm not a big fan of this job, but I hope this will get better, whenever I find actually good equipment for them, especially daggers. I mean, it's not a bad class, but they just did pretty low damage. Four more hits would have helped a lot there.

I'll stick with this setup for now, and probably only change it, whenever I get the next set of jobs. The game isn't that hard, in general, so even if the thief is a bit lacking for now, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

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Aside from that, let's talk about the adventure itself!

I visited the rest of the world, which mainly consisted of two new towns. One is at the Western edge. It's the city of Ancients. gorha already talked about it, but why not repeat it? There is just some interesting lore to find here. Specifically, we learn about the last big war between Light and Darkness. Except that it was the other way around. People abused the power of the Crystals, which is also the power of Light. The Ancient says, that the world was destroyed back than. Only a handful of Ancients seem to have survived, they stayed in this very town.

This concept is really interesting. I like that we aren't fighting a war of Good vs Evil, but one about equilibrium. Too much Light can be as damaging as too much Darkness. I wonder if there are actually some Dark Crystals. It doesn't change much about the game, but I really like that this detail was added.

I did, of course, take the boy up on his challenge to go around the world on a chocobo. Riding these silly birds and listening to their song is always a pleasure. No wonder they stayed, chocobos are just a good time.

It's here, that we actually find out that this isn't the whole world. It's only a floating continent. If I hadn't known about this already, I would probably find this twist to be pretty cool.

On the other side of the continent, we find Gysahl. It's a neat, little city, where you can buy Gysahl Greens and Magic Keys. I got a bunch of both. There isn't that much equipment to buy, and I don't have mages at the moment, so I have a ton of money to spare.

The town is adorable. When you enter, you are greeted by a bunch of sheep, who make a "Baah"-sound, when you talk with them. Very cute. Here is one of the adorable guys:

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If you talk to the shepard, you see a little scene, where she tries to get one of the more stubborn sheep back to it's place. Adorable, and perfect for this game. The inn is a bigger one, and contains a secret room. In there, a woman named Kate is writing letters, and urges us to do so too. It's a message from the Square Team itself, which is neat.

There is also a garden here. When you try to enter, the gardener gets angry at you and pushes you out. As he should!

I also unloaded my for-now useless equipment at the Fat Chocobo, and he is adorable too:

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I see now that I missed the bubble that comes out of his mouth. He is just sleeping the whole time, and keeping our stuff by storing it in his stomach. Really great bit. I guess the single chocobo in FF II was a hit. As it should be.

And with that, there was only one more thing to do: Finally help Tokkul. When we enter the town, we are immediately paralyzed and seized by Heins soldiers. They throw us into prison, into the same cell as King Argus and his soldiers. We learn that Hein was an advisor, but got corrupted by the Darkness.

The castle is actually the Elder Tree of the Living Woods, and it was cursed by Hein. It shows, as the walls are all made out of green vines. It looks really nice. One of the soldiers tells us, that there is a hole in the wall, that we can enter in mini-form. He gives us a spell (in case we don't have one), and dies. And so we enter the dungeon part.

The dungeon itself is pretty simple. Nothing confusing, but a few times, you need to enter hidden walkways. You can spot them, if you look for them, but, considering it's a tree, that seems quite fitting and still not too punishing.

The monsters, as mentioned, don't hit too hard. But they are the first to be really annoying with status effects. Stronger mummies, now called Pharaos, attack us, and can put us to sleep. There are also Lamias, who return from FF II, and I really like their design:

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I don't know why, maybe it's all those details, like the spots on her tail, and the silly, little snake in her hair. It's a neat design. Their behaviour, though, isn't neat. These jerks can confuse my people, which is the worst. They don't hit as hard as in FF II, but you still have to waste a round to restore their sanity, which just makes the fights even longer and more annoying.

There is also Dullahan:

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She fills the whole screen, and is therefore the only enemy, if you fight here. Just really cool design, with the cape and the horse. Some of those monsters look just really great, and it shows that we are nearing the end of the Famicom era. Not a bad enemy either, except for it's durability.

And then, after some more rooms, we meet Hein himself:

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His design is great. Look at this cape, and how it is wrapped around his arm. Look at these great boots, and the long rat-tail of hair. And you can clearly see how much he is already corrupted. This guy isn't even human anymore. All-around great design, probably my favourite up to now.

I didn't bring a Black Mage (as mentioned, I wanted to use the new jobs), and thought I could just hit him with my Knight. Well, that didn't work out. He is nearly impossible to hit. Rarely, my Thief or my Knight would do around 30 damage, but most of the time, they just missed.

My Archer was a bit more useful. When Janewe hit, she would do around 100 damage, at least if the arrows fit Heins weakness.

Because, you see, Hein has a weakness to a random element which he can change, by sacrificing a round. Unfortunately, this happens at the beginning, and if you are already casting that round, you will heal the jerk.

How do you find out his weakness? With scholars Scan ability, of course! It's an infamous part of the game, and the fight is often mentioned as the only place where it makes sense to have a scholar. Which is, as I mentioned above, nonsense, they are quite useful.

So, what I did was to find out his weakness, and throw Arctic Winds and Bomb Shard at the jerk. Mainly with the Scholar, which also lead to him healing Hein a few times. But the damage output was pretty low, and the Thief and the Archer just threw potions around. Hein knows -ara spells, but they still only do up to 150 points of damage, which can be easily healed, because he only attacks one person at a time.

The concept of the fight is pretty neat as a puzzle, but I don't like that you can just straight up heal him with no fault of your own, because he suddenly decided to change his weakness. But he only changes it every few rounds, so that is more than enough time to kill him. He also went down relatively fast, considering that I had mainly one attacker.

Afterwards, the Tree thanks us and moves back to the Living Woods, where he came from. He also lets everyone out, givs us the Wind Fang and makes us leave the Woods, which will not let you in again.

Now that we did everything on the floating continent, we move back to Castle Argus. If you remember, Desch told us a long time ago that King Argus knows stuff about airships. He doesn't really, though, but he has a Time Wheel, which he tells us to bring to Cid, so that he can make us a new airship. Cid upgrades the Enterprise, our regular ship, and it can now, by simply pressing a button, turn into an airship. We are finally really airborne!

Except for the small problem, that it can only land on water. It also, still, can't fly over mountains. But it certainly makes moving around the floating continent a lot easier, and it is also really fast.

So, it's time to get to the rest of the world. It's really exciting, leaving the place that we thought was the whole world, finally seeing what else is there.

Except that there is nothing down there, but water. The whole world had drowned, probably during the last battle between Light and Darkness. That's what the Ancients meant, when they said the world got destroyed. Except for that bit of land, flying in the sky, which the Ancients made possible with the Tower of Owen.
 

JBear

Internet's foremost Bertolli cosplayer
(He/Him)
After thinking it over, I decided that it's in the spirit of this project to actually try out what the game gives me.
FWIW, I recommend this. I found that, when I was willing to give each job a chance, there was only one job in the entire game that didn't impress me in some way or have some niche use.

For the record, I used a Red Mage for some time. His attack was very lackluster, so I changed him back to a White Mage.
Red Mages are best in the early game. You get an early Red Mage exclusive weapon (Wight Slayer, IIRC?) that makes having exactly one really useful at that point.

So I made her into a Ranger. Which isn't a bad change, because at this point, you get a new bow and can by an infinite amount of the elemental arrows. If the monster is weak to the element of the arrow, she often one-shots it.
I like that the game gives you Ranger and Scholar at the same time, because the two jobs synergize really well.

Alltogether, I'm not a big fan of this job, but I hope this will get better, whenever I find actually good equipment for them, especially daggers. I mean, it's not a bad class, but they just did pretty low damage. Four more hits would have helped a lot there.
IIRC, (slight equipment spoiler), you'll hit a town soon whose shop is lousy with amazing daggers. I find that in general the game does a really good job of signaling/pushing you into certain jobs at certain points by giving you gear for that job.

How do you find out his weakness? With scholars Scan ability, of course! It's an infamous part of the game, and the fight is often mentioned as the only place where it makes sense to have a scholar. Which is, as I mentioned above, nonsense, they are quite useful.
Yeah, as always, the internet is wrong. Scholars are great! During this point of the game, my Scholar was as beefy as my Knight. I think the issue is that folks don't explore enough? If you miss the Dwarf trove *and* the locked key door, then you don't have much gear for your Scholar, and the class is our course much worse without the free loot that the game hands you multiple copies of.
 
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