I'm playing through all of Final Fantasy, and everyone is invited (Playing Lightning Returns now)

[4-So]

My friends and I used to have conversations about how FF7 was where the series changed tonally (in more ways than one) for better or worse. Years later it occurred to me that the change really happened with FF6, where FF7 was just Square going all in.

 

[Beowulf]

Good question but can only people like Shadow use those scrolls? Are there enough of them to make them a good item for stores to stock? And are they mass produced because they are relatively cheap. Were they something that the Empire developed that got out of their control?

I always assumed that, similar to the way there's "more" town that we can't visit and more people we never talk to, the shops stock plenty of things that just aren't relevant to my party. Items like dried meat, for example, which is only available for sale in the one area of the game that it's necessary for my party. (Presumably people in other towns also buy meat!) The flipside of this is that clearly, I can't be the only audience for many things sold in these shops, such as the ninja scrolls. Given that only Shadow can do anything with them in my party, either there are lots of other ninja/assassins running around (possible, there are enemies who fit the bill) or they have some other use to random people. I personally love the idea that they're just decorative wall hangings, unless you know the secret ninja technique of transforming them into magical explosions...which sounds like the sort of thing a guy who spent a lot of time in Thamasa would have picked up.

 

[conchobhar]

Glad to see this thread back!

Final Fantasy VI was also my first Final Fantasy game. I played it in 2006 or thereabouts, via the Advance port, and it blew me away. It wasn't the first RPG I had played, but at this point I had cut my teeth on the second-rung franchises (Tales, Golden Sun, Breath of Fire, Wild Arms, and so on), so it was a shock to my system to see this amount of ambition, this quality of writing, and this quality of presentation, in a game from a decade earlier. There was a period I considered it the finest RPG of them all.

I actually replayed it a few years back (2018), and found it measured up to my memories shockingly well: I don't have that same gushing teenage adoration, but the sheer ambition and craft on display remains impressive. It's not my favourite in the series anymore but it is a very good one indeed. I won't be playing along this time, but I'm looking forward to reading your own re-discovery of the game.

We first have to kill the bears, before being able to attack Vargas. After doing that a few times, which isn't particularly hard, Sabin appears (who Terra mistook for one of Vargas bears, I'm glad the game didn't lose all it's humour). Which makes Vargas angry enough, that he uses a special technic, blowing everyone aside from Sabin away.

In the SNES translation Terra imagines Sabin as some bodybuilder who wandered away from his gym, which is fair enough I guess. In later retranslations she had mistaken him for another one of Vargas's trained bears. Either way Sabin refers to himself as a bear later on in the conversation, but it only makes sense in the GBA-and-later retranslations. (Unless you wanna take "bear" to mean that Sabin is a burly gay man...)

Perhaps of note: some concept art (1, 2) gives Sabin a scruffy beard, which might go some ways in explaining this joke.

Final Fantasy games tend to swing pendulum-like between "detailed character customization system" and "static character mechanics with better-defined character development".

This is the received wisdom but I don't think it's really so clear-cut. II throws a wrench in it from the start, featuring both the first distinct cast of characters as well as a SaGa-esque system where characters develop according to what weapons they use/actions they take. And while IV marks a turning point for the series' character writing, V is really not that different from it— Cecil is really the only character in IV who has major character development, while the rest can be described in reductive terms.

VI doesn't fit cleanly into either 'side', either: on one hand, it gives each character a job and unique ability; but on the other hand, character growth entirely player-driven. And I do mean entirely: there is no 'natural' stat growth in the game, and characters only gain stats upon level-up in accordance with their equipped magicite. VI's cast aren't blank slates in the same way as V, but they also aren't immutable in the way as IV.

 

[FelixSH]

Sorry for the slow pace. My job is pretty exhausting, I'm just too tired to write anything interesting after work, or even play much, at the moment.

When you meet Shadow, Edgar goes "Oh man that guy would kill anybody if there's a dime to be made better steer clear" and it's just like, wow, Edgar. That's pretty harsh. Terrible thing to say about someone really. You know what? I bet he wouldn't. I bet that guy wouldn't kill someone near and dear to him, just absolutely could not bring himself to end the life of a good friend, even if his friend was begging him to.

Well, Shadow does have a reputation, and Edgar just goes from there. I mean, he is supposed to be a ruthless killer. I think it's fair - our characters aren't perfect, they can be wrong, even heavily so.

I used to grind everyone up to level 13 before fighting Vargas, because Sabin joins at average party level plus two. At level 15, Sabin learns Phoenix Dance, a fire-elemental attack that hits all enemies -- it makes the next few sections of the game much easier.

I remember this attack, and am looking very much forward to burn everything down that's standing in my way.

Remember to stick Banon in the back row once he joins!

I will...try, but probably still forget. Honestly, no idea anymore why. I'm looking forward to finding it out.

On the character focus:
Final Fantasy games tend to swing pendulum-like between "detailed character customization system" and "static character mechanics with better-defined character development".
Final Fantasy 3 introduced the job system with interchangeable, nameless characters.
Final Fantasy 4 had static you-learn-X-spell-at-Y-level improvements with characters that developed over the story.
Final Fantasy 5 refined the job system and allowed skills to be transferred between jobs for the first time, but characters didn't really develop much more than "adventurer", "princess", "Mary Sue", and "pirate who is also a princess".
Final Fantasy 6 swings back the other way. It's Everyone Gets Character Development: The Game, but each character is stuck doing their own special ability for the entire story (with one major exception to be found in the middle of act two). Most of the characters have shades of previous standard jobs, but almost always with a twist.

Afte playing through all the games before, this seems to be a simplification, even if there is some truth to it. I mean, even with FF II, you have a game that basically introduces story into JRPGs, but you also have an interesting trial at mechanisms. III might have a party that is basically non-descript, but it does have guest characters, who are characterized. Square didn't forget their lessons, the focus is just different. And honestly, the story might be very simple, but I think it's not that much simpler than the one from FF II?

While you are right with IV, V does have more to it's characters than meets the eye. You need to take detours, but you can learn interesting things about all of them. Remembering FF IV, Bartz and his friends don't seem that lacking to me. I mean, how much character work did Rosa or Rydia even get? Edge lost his parents (which was a neat bit, but there isn't much else there) and Kain is just the worst who switches sides, because he is jealous. Cecil is the only one of the main five who I think of having real depth, and even then, you can see him being a bit more trial than I would expect. The side characters (again) seem to be more flashed out, in particular Tellah and Edward. But elsewise? It was a very good try, but I still think you can clearly see that it was, still, a try.

With VI, I think we are getting away from this anyway. The game is clearly story- and character-based, like IV was, but it also offers you a good amount of character development. They start out in fixed roles, but as time goes on, there are different ways (specifically magic, but also relics, if my memory is correct) to customize the characters. Which really fits - considering how this game breaks with FF traditions in different ways. It's not story OR mechanics - it's both now. And it's the basis for the games that will follow. Also, I guess we just are at the point, where story is expected, so we have to have some gameplay stuff, if FF needs to differentiate itself from earlier games.

With regards to your job analysis, I think the game also sort-of reworks the old job structures, using them just as a basis for something new. The characters you mention mainly fit to the jobs you mentioned. Edgar is a special case, and I don't think he really fits to anything from the older games, because this is the first Sci-Fi-like one. Machines are a real thing now, not just something that has existed long ago, that only a handful of experts can use. It's part of everyday life. So, having someone who specializes there is very fitting.

That is sensible but I don't remember if I ever used them that way. Maybe in the early game but as you proceed I guess tents are cheap enough (and everyone can have MP that need refilling) that you never bother with the bags/sacks again. Or at least I never bothered with them again. Other than hoarding them "just in case".

The idea is certainly neat, but I think we are at a point, were having to deal with items like that is just a tradition, and Square didn't quite realize it yet. Sleeping bags would make a lot more sense, if tents were actually expensive, and if there were real, long dungeon crawling involved, but the series is past that. So, yeah, a nice idea, but seems like they didn't really think about how items are used at this point.

Good question but can only people like Shadow use those scrolls? Are there enough of them to make them a good item for stores to stock? And are they mass produced because they are relatively cheap. Were they something that the Empire developed that got out of their control?

I assumed that these scrolls are just an old, ancient tradition, that you have spend a lot of time to learn. The empire, on the other hand, tries to abuse technology AND magic to create a shortcut, and having people get magic, without earning it. The use and power of these scrolls is pretty restricted, if I remember correctly (at least, I never used them much), and they need a lot of training and time. The empire wants instant super-soldiers.

Maybe that's reading to much into it, but on the other hand, this tale might be about unearned power, in some way. Which probably is also part of VIIs story. Hmm, I'll think about that.

My friends and I used to have conversations about how FF7 was where the series changed tonally (in more ways than one) for better or worse. Years later it occurred to me that the change really happened with FF6, where FF7 was just Square going all in.

Pretty sure the graphics have a lot to do with it. VI is still very colorful, and the sprites are still adorable. No matter how hard you try making Kefka evil, you just can't replicate something like Seqhiroth in the sea of flames on an SNES. In VII, it's just obvious that we aren't really in fun-adventure-world anymore.

Glad to see this thread back!

Thanks! I hope to be able to not take forever to continue.

Final Fantasy VI was also my first Final Fantasy game. I played it in 2006 or thereabouts, via the Advance port, and it blew me away. It wasn't the first RPG I had played, but at this point I had cut my teeth on the second-rung franchises (Tales, Golden Sun, Breath of Fire, Wild Arms, and so on), so it was a shock to my system to see this amount of ambition, this quality of writing, and this quality of presentation, in a game from a decade earlier. There was a period I considered it the finest RPG of them all.

I actually replayed it a few years back (2018), and found it measured up to my memories shockingly well: I don't have that same gushing teenage adoration, but the sheer ambition and craft on display remains impressive. It's not my favourite in the series anymore but it is a very good one indeed. I won't be playing along this time, but I'm looking forward to reading your own re-discovery of the game.

Yeah, you can like the game or not, but it is a piece of real ambition, which should be appreciated. The artstyle alone is so amazing, the spritework so detailed, and that we go away from classical fantasy alone is a breath of fresh air. I totally understand, why one would think of this as one (if not the) best JRPG of the 16-bit systems.

Perhaps of note: some concept art (1, 2) gives Sabin a scruffy beard, which might go some ways in explaining this joke.

Nice artwork, thanks. I have never seen him with a beard. Still, Terra seems kind of rude there. I find that interesting, that joke would fit PERFECTLY into FF V, but the tone is so different that I'm just surprised to find a good-natured joke of that kind here.

This is the received wisdom but I don't think it's really so clear-cut. II throws a wrench in it from the start, featuring both the first distinct cast of characters as well as a SaGa-esque system where characters develop according to what weapons they use/actions they take. And while IV marks a turning point for the series' character writing, V is really not that different from it— Cecil is really the only character in IV who has major character development, while the rest can be described in reductive terms.

VI doesn't fit cleanly into either 'side', either: on one hand, it gives each character a job and unique ability; but on the other hand, character growth entirely player-driven. And I do mean entirely: there is no 'natural' stat growth in the game, and characters only gain stats upon level-up in accordance with their equipped magicite. VI's cast aren't blank slates in the same way as V, but they also aren't immutable in the way as IV.

Yeah, I honestly think people buy a bit too much into the narrative of the first few FFs switching between story and character development. I mean, it's not completely wrong, but it's also not as clearcut as people make it out to be. Stuff from one game always follows to the next, and, honestly - I think the story never gets actually weaker, from one FF to the next. The focus in V is just very different from IV, and it's stronger focus on comedy makes it seem like a lesser story. But than, IV becomes a dungeon crawler in the middle of the game - the story takes a strong backseat, which isn't true for V, I think.

I actually didn't have time to continue the game, so nothing more for now, but I plan to get some playtime in, tomorrow at the latest.

 

[FelixSH]

I actually played some more!

First, through the awful d-pad of the 360-controller, it's always a gamble to let Sabin use any of his Blitzes. I swear, there is no way to actually make sure that I get the input correct, with this stupid thing.

Anyway, when I last stopped playing, I was near the hideout of the Returners, where Edgar is well known, of course. We meet Banon, leader of the rebels. Also, I realized that the bed in here has a capital B on the lower end, which I saw later on other beds. Are these Banon-branded?

Sorry for the bad joke. I find it really impressive, how the game always gives Terra a bit to do, and shows how vulnerable she is. Edgar and Banon talk about her power, which visibly scares her. Also, Pandoras Box is mentioned - not by name, but they have a similar myth in their world. Just a nice tidbit.

Banon, and the returners as a whole, are clearly nicer than the awful Empire, but they still are mainly interested in Terra as a weapon, not as a person. Which makes sense, but it doesn't help Terra at all. Yes, she can help others. But who is helping her? The only one interested in her wellbeing is Locke, but that is only his obsession for his dead love. The Returners, including Locke, aren't her friends, or her family. They want her as a work partner. While Terra just wants a place, where she is save and loved.

Terra herself still doesn't feel like a protagonist (until the end of the scenario of her, Edgar and Banon). She does make a decision, to help the Returners, but what choice did she actually have? It's helping the Empire, or the Returners. She has nowhere else to go. Which really speaks for the idea, that this is an ensemble story, with no clear leading hero.

There is the nice bit, where Terra can talk to everyone, and is allowed to decide for herself, if she wants to help. You are even asked by Banon. The choice is fake, of course - saying "no" let's you just back into the hideout. Which makes sense, this is a linear story. But it also feels a bit meta. As I said, there isn't really a choice. Terras world is extremely small. Yes, she can say no, but than she needs to get back into the cave. Because outside, the Empire waits for her.

In the discussion, where Banon talks about his plan, it seems like the War of the Magi, while a known, historical event, seems to be shrouded in mystery and myth. Lockes grandma told him stuff about it. But then, it was a thousand years ago.

Interestingly, even then, people abused Espers, and took their power. Which brings me to a point that I'm always fascinated by. In most stories, where there are other races than humans, which are more directly powerful than us, humans prevail. There is always the adaptability, and the use of technology, plus our work in groups, that makes it possible for humans to fight against magic creatures, which should be clearly stronger. It seems to happen always in stories, doesn't it? Humans always are the strongest, even if they lose. Huh.

Edgar, true to his love for machines, wants to use Magitek Armor himself. Which doesn't speak too highly of him, considering where the power comes from. Banon is against it anyway - he fears another War of the Magi. Instead, he wants Terra to talk to the Esper in Narshe.

Locke comes to Terras side, but she already decided - she will help. Which is the moment, where a guard comes in, telling the others that South Figaro has fallen, and the hideout will be attacked soon. Locke is sent there, to slow the Empire down, while the others flee over Lethe River.

I thankfully DID remember to put Banon in the back. I mean, the game mentions that he can't die, so that was motivation enough. And his pray ability is super good, plus you have other strong fighters, so no need to let him attack anyway.

Let me mention, that I find it really well done, how the characters are defined inside battle. It's maybe not as clever as IV (that Tellah loses stats, when leveling up, is genius), but you never use the normal attack. Everyone has an ability, that also defines them, and that is mostly free. It's really neat.

The flight is pretty effective, even if it's slightly annoying to go in circles. At the end, we meet Ultros, someone who I have enjoyed a lot in my earlier playthroughs. I still did - up to the point, where he gets gross, with regards to Terra. Sigh.

That battle was actually somewhat hard. Or maybe that's the wrong word - you can just have bad luck, like I did, and get Banon attacked by a single, and then everyone attacked by Ultros group attack. For me, it was Banons death. Worked out the second time, though.

And then, the split happens. I always liked that. It, again, makes this seem more like an ensemble story, instead of one with a clear main character.

First, I did Lockes scenario. So, the part where you get the cider to the old man wasn't a side quest, but part of this here. It was an interesting scenario, kind of like an adventure game, a bit. Except that it was also kind of annoying, with South Figaro being not too easy to navigate, I thought. Also, you basically can't get the password wrong if you think about it. But if you do, you kind of start over, which is weird. Does the little kid beat you up?

I do like, that Lockes special ability steal is used for something interesting here. Stealing the clothes of merchants (who attack you for no reason, what the hell?) and a soldier in battle is pretty cool.

We also get to the South Figaro headquarter, where the traitor lives. At least he feels bad, for betraying his people. What a jerk. It is fun, though, that one of the soldiers has to take care of the kids, and they drive him crazy.

We soon reach the part, where Celes is tortured by the two soldiers. And, again, Locke sees a pretty woman in need, and decides to protect her. Yeah, sure. He seems to actually care for Terra and Celes, at least, but it all feels icky in some way.

So, let's talk about Celes.

A Magitek knight forged by the Empire
and tempered in battle.
None have ever truly known the woman
beneath the general's guise...

So, who is Celes? I mean, she has a conscience. The reason why she is here, is because she defied the idea of Kefka to poison a whole town. Which speaks very bad for the Empire. Is Gestahl just cartoonishly evil, too?

But I think we never learn about her way before that act of defiance? Was she a harsh general? She probably didn't enjoy making people suffer, but she still fought a war, that is overthrowing free countries. I assume she was more cold-blooded earlier on, and this is basically her becoming a Paladin, just without the direct transformation.

Did the infusion with magic have anything to do with her being a general? I mean, was she capable and got chosen for this honor (I guess it must have been one?), or was she randomly chosen, and was one of the few who survived, and therefore became a general?

For now, she is broken. But she will grow stronger, and Lockes help is actually needed.

Together, Celes and Locke get back through the tunnel to Narshe, where they are attacked by the tunnel armor. It was actually a hard fight, and I needed a few of my high potions. I just didn't want to use Relic all the time. It's an interesting technic, but so situational, and the tunnel armor can attack in different, strong ways.

Next, I chose Terras scenario, the shortest of the three. The guards in Narshe don't want the group to enter, and even physically throw back Edgar and Banon. I wouldn't be surprised, if one gets stuck here (like I did, in my first two playthroughs). You actually need to remember the secret exit you used with Locke.

Not much is happening here. We just make our way through the mines, where we play a strange minigame, that is excused as a test for new guards. Also, we find the Moogles home, which is nice. Moogles are always great.

Soon, we reach the house of the old man (Arvis), where Terra woke up in the beginning. At this point, Edgar becomes unsure, because the Esper could actually be dangerous. And with that, this scenario is over, and the longest of the three starts.

Sabin had become unconscious, when he entered the currents to fight against Ultros underwater, I guess. He wakes up near a house, where we find the cold-blooded assassin, Shadow. Who isn't nearly as cold-blooded as Edgar made him out. He offers his help, without any costs (didn't it cost a lot, in the SNES version), but with the caveat that he might leave anytime. There is also a traveling merchant on a cute Chocobo, who sells me 99 shurikens. So, yeah, Shadow will never not use the throw command, unlike all my other playthroughs. I played this game kind of bad, you know? Shurikens are finite, so how could I use them?

I do like, that we finally use shurikens as regular, cheap items, instead of these overpriced super-powerful things.

Also, in the hut is a nice, old man, who thinks we are here to repair all kinds of things in his house. Dude, what are you doing out here, all alone, when you aren't really in the clearest state of mind? I guess the traveling merchant mainly comes here to make sure, that the old man is still in a good state.

Soon, we reach the enemy camp, were we here Kefka talk about wanting Leos position. Which confuses me, I though they are both generals? At least the soldiers know that Kefka is awful, but I guess that comes only from the fact, that he is awful to them too.

We just came before the attack on Doga castle. The assault strikes fear in the hearts of the soldiers there, until Cyan appears.

A noble warrior of a foreign land.
A faithful retainer
to his lord and master,
he fears not even death...

I like Cyan. He is a bit of an old-timey weirdo, but that gives him some fun bits with Sabin, and he just screams "loyal, powerful soldier". He just goes outside, defeats the enemy commander, and makes the regular soldiers flee.

Switching back to the camp, we see the southern part, where Leo talks to a soldier. He sounds like a really great guy (not throwing away the life of his soldiers counts for a lot), but I have the same problem I have with Celes. Ok, this guy doesn't want to play dirty, and he values life. How does one like him get anywhere, in the awful army of Gestahl. Was Gestahl nicer, at some point? Did Leo buy into some "We only want to bring the culture" nonsense? Why does a nice guy like Leo attack a castle, that clearly wants to stay independant?

And, if he defies Kefkas insane plan, like Celes did - why is she stripped of rank, while he is still in charge? I mean, there seems to be something going on, as he is called back. But still, he isn't punished. Honestly, the most obvious reason seems to me, that Celes is a woman for Locke to rescue. Would he have freed Leo, if he was in the cell? I can't imagine so, which really throws a bad light on Locke. Leo certainly wouldn't have reminded him of "someone".

Leo tells Kefka not to do anything dirty, like, maybe, poison a river. There are captured, imperial soldiers, who would die too. But Kefka doesn't care. He cares about nothing, and no one.

Sabin can't take it any longer, and after Leo is gone, he confronts Kefka, and we fight. Well, sort of. Kefka just flees ("Do I look like a waiter?" is a great line). But this means, that he isn't the magical soldier, like he will be shortly, right? Here, he is just a total loser, who can't take a single hit.

Like, how did Kefka get this position? Was he never a grunt, trained as a soldier? Is he just a favourite of Gestahl, because Gestahl likes people who have no scruples? I would really like to learn a bit more about the past of the three generals.

Well, Kefka gets rid of us by throwing some regular soldiers at us, and flees. Which gives him time to poison the river. And then, everyone dies. I know, all members of your party have lived through trauma, or will at least, but this one always seemed the heaviest, to me. Domas king was probably a good man, and Cyan comes too late. And then, we see his dead wife and son, which is just heartbreaking. And makes Cyan go superangry.

He attacks the camp, on his own, and at this point, we help him slaughter enemies. Until we finally decide to go. There is a cute bit, where Cyan doesn't get technology. "How does one manipulate these abominations?" I like you, Cyan.

We are pretty far from Narshe, and have to go through a forest. There is a recovery spring, which looks absolutely amazing.

We find a train station, which confuses Cyan. He seems to remember that here shouldn't be one - which also means, that there are other train stations, or at least have been. But than, we are in a steampunk world, a train shouldn't surprise me.

As Sabin isn't the smartest, he wants to look inside, where we are soon trapped, as the train departs. At this point, Cyan explains that this is the Phantom Train, which takes the souls of the departed (including Cyans family, of course).

We don't want to go to the afterlife, of course, so we decide to stop the train. There is a neat scene, where Sabin pulls a button, just because, which Cyan undoes. It becomes clear, that he doesn't like technology.

We do find a bunch of wandering ghosts, which attack us, if spoken to, except for one that sells stuff. We also meet Siegfried, the "greatest swordsman in all the world", who is a pathetic fighter. Also, I'm questioning how he entered and left the train.

After some time, we get to the front of the train, and have to fight it, for it to stop. That fight was extremely easy - the train hit me one time with a wheel, before dying. I forgot to Suplex it, but I assumed I would have more time. Oh, well.

The train brings us to another station, where Cyan remembers his family. I really, really like Cyans story here, it is probably one of the more touching parts of the game.

But we still have some way to go, before getting back to Narshe. To continue, we have to jump down the South Falls, which leads to the Weldt. Shadow decides to leave us, but Sabin and Cyan jump. We fight some ugly, weak fish, and an ugly, strong fish, who nearly killed me with El Nino. How dare you, random nonsense boss?

Before stopping, I still watched the scene, where Gau finds us unconscious.

A youth draped in monster hides,
his eyes shining
with a warm and gentle light...

And that's it for today. Thanks for reading.

 

[Mightyblue]

Like always the Blitz inputs for FF6 are always straight directionals regardless of what the screen shows. So if you see a diagonal you can always do down or right and so on.

 

[4-So]

As far as Leo and Kefka as generals, I just assumed Leo was the higher-ranking general.

Edgar, true to his love for machines, wants to use Magitek Armor himself. Which doesn't speak too highly of him, considering where the power comes from. Banon is against it anyway - he fears another War of the Magi. Instead, he wants Terra to talk to the Esper in Narshe.

I'd be willing to give Edgar the benefit of the doubt here. It's not uncommon in war for the belligerents to find munitions stockpiles and abandoned weapons left behind by the enemy, for various reasons, or finding hidden caches. While he's likely interested because of his machinist background, it's possible Edgar is simply being pragmatic here as well. Fighting firaga with firaga and whatnot. (Which is why Banon warns against another War of the Magi...tek.)

Interestingly, even then, people abused Espers, and took their power. Which brings me to a point that I'm always fascinated by. In most stories, where there are other races than humans, which are more directly powerful than us, humans prevail. There is always the adaptability, and the use of technology, plus our work in groups, that makes it possible for humans to fight against magic creatures, which should be clearly stronger. It seems to happen always in stories, doesn't it? Humans always are the strongest, even if they lose. Huh.

Doesn't FF6 imply some humans became espers, that an esper is a human that came in contact with magic? I seem to remember something about that.

 

[conchobhar]

So, who is Celes? I mean, she has a conscience. The reason why she is here, is because she defied the idea of Kefka to poison a whole town. Which speaks very bad for the Empire. Is Gestahl just cartoonishly evil, too?

But I think we never learn about her way before that act of defiance? Was she a harsh general? She probably didn't enjoy making people suffer, but she still fought a war, that is overthrowing free countries. I assume she was more cold-blooded earlier on, and this is basically her becoming a Paladin, just without the direct transformation.

The game does tell us what she was like as a general, but it comes up later so I'll spoilerpop my comments here…

Spoiler: Celes talk

Celes was one of the Empire's most fearsome enforcers, and among her accomplishments is attacking the town of Maranda and forcibly conscripting the populace into the Imperial Army.

So it's a little odd that Celes is introduced as a simple "soldier with a conscience", given that she's been directly involved in at least some of the Empire's atrocities. It's not unreasonable to have the mass poisoning as a bridge too far, but the game really glosses over her change of heart: why it happened, or why people should trust her now.

That said, a lot of Celes' character makes sense when you learn about the original plan for her. Per the FF wiki:

Celes was originally meant to be a "conflicted spy" archetype—a spy working for the antagonists, but swayed by the benevolence of the people she was supposed to be spying on and how nice Locke was to her. She was to be psychologically unstable, like Kefka, due to a similar magic infusion process. Although the "conflicted spy" idea was not used in Final Fantasy VI itself, the archetype was later used for Cait Sith in Final Fantasy VII.

I do like the idea of this being her de facto Paladin transformation though; I think that's a clever interpretation.

I like Cyan. He is a bit of an old-timey weirdo, but that gives him some fun bits with Sabin, and he just screams "loyal, powerful soldier". He just goes outside, defeats the enemy commander, and makes the regular soldiers flee.

Cyan's one of my favourites in the game. I'm sure it owes in part to his character design (older, crag-faced mustachioed man), but I feel that he has a sense of weariness to him that the rest of the cast don't— like he's someone really weighed down by grief, duty, and general exhaustion. Someone who's lost everything but trudges on anyway, because he's got nothing else.

Like, how did Kefka get this position? Was he never a grunt, trained as a soldier? Is he just a favourite of Gestahl, because Gestahl likes people who have no scruples? I would really like to learn a bit more about the past of the three generals.

Rest assured this does get covered, although with Kefka more implicitly than explicitly.

 

[Purple]

I mean, even with FF II, you have a game that basically introduces story into JRPGs,

A timeline of the first few entries in the most relevant series here:

DQ1- May 27th, 1986
DQ2- Jan 26th, 1987
FF1- Dec 18th, 1987
PS1- Dec 20th, 1987
DQ3- Feb 10th, 1988
FF2- Dec 17th, 1988
PS2- Mar 20th, 1989
DQ4- Feb 11th, 1990
FF3- April 27th, 1990

That's... more dates than is relevant but I can't very well not share the oddity that Phantasy Star 2 predates the final famicom Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games by 13 and 11 months respectively. But anyway other games were messing around with fancy cutscenes and guest characters dropping in and out a good year prior to FF2.

 

[nosimpleway]

First, through the awful d-pad of the 360-controller, it's always a gamble to let Sabin use any of his Blitzes. I swear, there is no way to actually make sure that I get the input correct, with this stupid thing.

Hey, I talked about this!

Every other Blitz Sabin learns is another quarter-circle on the controller input. Look, Street Fighter II was really popular at the time, okay? Aura Cannon is QCF, Phoenix Dance is a half-circle, and so on. But this is an RPG, not a fighting game, and was always intended to be played on a controller with a cross-shaped directional input rather than a joystick. So there's a trick to getting those to work right: any diagonal directional input can be substituted for either of the two directions that make up the diagonal.
Aura Cannon demands a down-left diagonal. But because of this -- bug? feature? whatever it is -- you can press either down or left instead. So Aura Cannon turns from a tricky QCF on a cross pad to either down-down-left or down-left-left. Easy and reliable.

There is the nice bit, where Terra can talk to everyone, and is allowed to decide for herself, if she wants to help. You are even asked by Banon. The choice is fake, of course - saying "no" let's you just back into the hideout. Which makes sense, this is a linear story. But it also feels a bit meta. As I said, there isn't really a choice. Terras world is extremely small. Yes, she can say no, but than she needs to get back into the cave. Because outside, the Empire waits for her.

Terra can be as conflicted as she needs, saying "No" to Banon three times has her mope a bit about how unsure she is that anyone can rely on her. She can't even remember who she is, after all. At this point the Empire forces her hand, the messenger shows up to let everyone know that they sacked South Figaro, and Terra has to escape up the Lethe even if she doesn't agree to what the Returners are asking her to do.

So yeah, the Empire's right outside. And if you dilly and/or dally, they get a whole lot closer. Evil is proactive.

In the discussion, where Banon talks about his plan, it seems like the War of the Magi, while a known, historical event, seems to be shrouded in mystery and myth. Lockes grandma told him stuff about it. But then, it was a thousand years ago.

1000 years is a lot of time, but it's not so much time that a historical event should be the subject of fairy-tales and myths, really. It's like if we said "No one knows how William the Conqueror managed to subdue the entirety of England. The answers have been lost to time..."

Interestingly, even then, people abused Espers, and took their power. Which brings me to a point that I'm always fascinated by. In most stories, where there are other races than humans, which are more directly powerful than us, humans prevail. There is always the adaptability, and the use of technology, plus our work in groups, that makes it possible for humans to fight against magic creatures, which should be clearly stronger. It seems to happen always in stories, doesn't it? Humans always are the strongest, even if they lose. Huh.

Humans are space orcs.

We soon reach the part, where Celes is tortured by the two soldiers.

Not in the GBA version! They took out the Celes-punchin', so she just sort of exchanges a few words with her guard and then collapses for no reason.

Is Gestahl just cartoonishly evil, too?

He's an Emperor in a Final Fantasy game, so yes.

Did the infusion with magic have anything to do with her being a general? I mean, was she capable and got chosen for this honor (I guess it must have been one?), or was she randomly chosen, and was one of the few who survived, and therefore became a general?

Gestahl's plan was that his top brass was the first to get infused. Kefka went first and went utterly bonkers as a result, so it took some refinement before his other generals were up for their shot at it. Leo refused entirely as a result, so Celes was up next. After that they started getting more of the Imperial mooks in on the action.

Together, Celes and Locke get back through the tunnel to Narshe, where they are attacked by the tunnel armor. It was actually a hard fight, and I needed a few of my high potions. I just didn't want to use Relic all the time. It's an interesting technic, but so situational, and the tunnel armor can attack in different, strong ways.

Look, Celes has the ability to absorb magic when it's cast. Why the hell would Gestahl give one of his own soldiers the ability to null magic when his army are the only ones with magic in the first place?

Spoiler: Share Your Headcanons

Celes was given the ability in preparation for another raid on the Esper world so Gestahl could get his mitts on more research subjects to drain.

Also, in the hut is a nice, old man, who thinks we are here to repair all kinds of things in his house. Dude, what are you doing out here, all alone, when you aren't really in the clearest state of mind? I guess the traveling merchant mainly comes here to make sure, that the old man is still in a good state.

Well, he used to have a family with him.

Soon, we reach the enemy camp, were we here Kefka talk about wanting Leos position. Which confuses me, I though they are both generals? At least the soldiers know that Kefka is awful, but I guess that comes only from the fact, that he is awful to them too.

Leo doesn't outrank Kefka, they're equal. If anything, Kefka has Gestahl's ear in ways Leo doesn't. It's that Leo is in charge of this specific operation to raid Doma, and Kefka thinks he can do it faster and better.

Switching back to the camp, we see the southern part, where Leo talks to a soldier. He sounds like a really great guy (not throwing away the life of his soldiers counts for a lot), but I have the same problem I have with Celes. Ok, this guy doesn't want to play dirty, and he values life. How does one like him get anywhere, in the awful army of Gestahl. Was Gestahl nicer, at some point? Did Leo buy into some "We only want to bring the culture" nonsense? Why does a nice guy like Leo attack a castle, that clearly wants to stay independant?

Leo got his position based on the strength of his sword-arm and the utter, unfailing loyalty Gestahl finds easily manipulable. Leo does his job even if he personally finds the orders distasteful.

But this means, that he isn't the magical soldier, like he will be shortly, right? Here, he is just a total loser, who can't take a single hit.

Kefka's already infused and already crazy. He could roast Sabin with Fira if he felt like it, but he's in a hurry to be somewhere else. He's got poisonin' to do.

Like, how did Kefka get this position? Was he never a grunt, trained as a soldier? Is he just a favourite of Gestahl, because Gestahl likes people who have no scruples? I would really like to learn a bit more about the past of the three generals.

I wanna say it was Famitsu or something similar that pegged Kefka as an actual court jester before he was picked, presumably on a whim, for the first magic infusion. Once he actually got the phenominal cosmic power he was put in charge of part of the military. idk how canonical that explanation is.

We do find a bunch of wandering ghosts, which attack us, if spoken to, except for one that sells stuff. We also meet Siegfried, the "greatest swordsman in all the world", who is a pathetic fighter. Also, I'm questioning how he entered and left the train.

The Siegfried Rule: Just because you are weird does not mean you are important. (He's a leftover from some of the earlier drafts of the story, where he was actually relevant.)

Doesn't FF6 imply some humans became espers, that an esper is a human that came in contact with magic? I seem to remember something about that.

Espers used to be humans, only they were infused with magic by the gods themselves to become weapons for their war against the other gods.

 

[Torzelbaum]

DQ1- May 27th, 1986
DQ2- Jan 26th, 1987
FF1- Dec 18th, 1987
PS1- Dec 20th, 1987
DQ3- Feb 10th, 1988
FF2- Dec 17th, 1988
PS2- Mar 20th, 1989
DQ4- Feb 11th, 1990
FF3- April 27th, 1990

It's kind of crazy how close those games were released to each other - even in the same series.

After some time, we get to the front of the train, and have to fight it, for it to stop. That fight was extremely easy - the train hit me one time with a wheel, before dying.

Did you use a phoenix down on the Train?

We do find a bunch of wandering ghosts, which attack us, if spoken to, except for one

*perks up expectantly*

that sells stuff.

Oh...

Locke is sent there, to slow the Empire down,

I really do wonder how much Locke was actually able to slow down the Empire here. I am having a hard time remembering what he really even did other than free and recruit Celes.

 

[Beowulf]

I really do wonder how much Locke was actually able to slow down the Empire here. I am having a hard time remembering what he really even did other than free and recruit Celes.

I feel like there's an implication that he ran around town messing with soldiers and screwing up supply lines for a while, and then his scenario picks up with him needing to escape.

 

[gorha]

First, through the awful d-pad of the 360-controller, it's always a gamble to let Sabin use any of his Blitzes. I swear, there is no way to actually make sure that I get the input correct, with this stupid thing.

Yeah, the 360 d-pad is pretty wobbly. I would mess up inputs all the time when I tried to play fighting games on it. One thing that may help: after selecting Blitz and pressing the directional buttons, but before pressing A, if you feel like you won't get the result you wanted, you can press B to cancel the move entry and then choose the command again. Of course, that doesn't help if you feel like the input was right and the game disagrees. Another thing is that if you have the ATB set to Wait mode, time stops while you're entering the move, so you can do it slowly, which helps sometimes. But honestly, I prefer to just use the keyboard for Blitzes.

 

[Lokii]

An interesting new mod came out this week so I guess I'm playing along too. It's called Divergent Paths and the premise is that one small change (Edgar jumping off the raft to save Sabin) results in a cascade of differences which include a playable Leo, of course. The new content is mostly character focused, adding new scenes and resolving storylines using stuff from developer interviews, cut content, etc. It also includes a whole suite of bug fixes and improvements with some gameplay changes.

Two I like so far: Encounter rate is at 75% by default, but you can find a moogle charm and moogle lure in the beginners hall which let you set it to 0%, 50%, or 100%. Edgar's tools now have a chance to break and you can purchase multiple of each type (from Mid no less!) I like this as a balance to their utility and it makes Edgar feel a lot less lopsided.

I'm only a little ways in but it seems pretty slick and well constructed so far. I'll post more impressions as I go.

 

[Mogri]

I'm interested to hear how they work in the Chainsaw.

 

[FelixSH]

An interesting new mod came out this week so I guess I'm playing along too. It's called Divergent Paths and the premise is that one small change (Edgar jumping off the raft to save Sabin) results in a cascade of differences which include a playable Leo, of course. The new content is mostly character focused, adding new scenes and resolving storylines using stuff from developer interviews, cut content, etc. It also includes a whole suite of bug fixes and improvements with some gameplay changes.

Two I like so far: Encounter rate is at 75% by default, but you can find a moogle charm and moogle lure in the beginners hall which let you set it to 0%, 50%, or 100%. Edgar's tools now have a chance to break and you can purchase multiple of each type (from Mid no less!) I like this as a balance to their utility and it makes Edgar feel a lot less lopsided.

I'm only a little ways in but it seems pretty slick and well constructed so far. I'll post more impressions as I go.

Welcome! I'm looking forward to more of your impressions.

Did they balance Sabin too? He always seemed equally overpowered. I'm not quite sure if I would like it, that the tools can break, but that's just me not getting much out of ressource management. I'm glad you enjoy the mod.

Like always the Blitz inputs for FF6 are always straight directionals regardless of what the screen shows. So if you see a diagonal you can always do down or right and so on.

Oh, I know about this. It's just incredibly hard to make it clear that I want to press, say, down, and not down-right or down-left. The same is true for the other directions, for some reason, the input is very often interpreted as diagonal. It's a complete crapshot.

Stuff like this is also the reason, why I lost a ton of lifes in Celeste (I swear, have of my deaths were just due to incorrect input read) and why I can't do the challenges in the Megaman Legacy Collections (I crouch way too easily, it's obnoxious).

I mean, it fits - I'm very bad at fighting games.

Terra can be as conflicted as she needs, saying "No" to Banon three times has her mope a bit about how unsure she is that anyone can rely on her. She can't even remember who she is, after all. At this point the Empire forces her hand, the messenger shows up to let everyone know that they sacked South Figaro, and Terra has to escape up the Lethe even if she doesn't agree to what the Returners are asking her to do.

So yeah, the Empire's right outside. And if you dilly and/or dally, they get a whole lot closer. Evil is proactive.

Sure, it totally fits with the game, so having a choice that isn't really one is quite well done here.

1000 years is a lot of time, but it's not so much time that a historical event should be the subject of fairy-tales and myths, really. It's like if we said "No one knows how William the Conqueror managed to subdue the entirety of England. The answers have been lost to time..."

Well, it is a different world. Maybe the people here don't have actual Historians? Maybe the war was so horrible, that no one was able to write stuff down? Or the documents about the war were lost, due to something like the destroyed Library of Alexandria? There certainly are ways for this to happen.

But it seems like something in the middle - people do remember stuff, and then there might be memories left, that became legends, maybe for less educated people?

Not in the GBA version! They took out the Celes-punchin', so she just sort of exchanges a few words with her guard and then collapses for no reason.

Yeah, but it was so obvious what was supposed to be happening here. I just ignored that they left it out here.

Look, Celes has the ability to absorb magic when it's cast. Why the hell would Gestahl give one of his own soldiers the ability to null magic when his army are the only ones with magic in the first place?

Spoiler: Share Your Headcanons

Celes was given the ability in preparation for another raid on the Esper world so Gestahl could get his mitts on more research subjects to drain.

I do like this headcanon a lot. Seems like a good use for this ability. Though it might be sensible for Gestahl, to build more regular machines than, so that Celes can void all magic and the Espers have lost all their way of attack.

More stuff.

All interesting, but all I could add would be "Thanks for the info". So, instead of saying it for every paragraph, let me say it for the whole post.

I'd be willing to give Edgar the benefit of the doubt here. It's not uncommon in war for the belligerents to find munitions stockpiles and abandoned weapons left behind by the enemy, for various reasons, or finding hidden caches. While he's likely interested because of his machinist background, it's possible Edgar is simply being pragmatic here as well. Fighting firaga with firaga and whatnot. (Which is why Banon warns against another War of the Magi...tek.)

I might be a bit harsh against Edgar, but I don't know. He feels a bit like he would sacrifice a lot, if he just could get his hands on great machinery. But I guess that's unfair, if this were his main motivation, he could easily work to his hearts content for the empire. I guess I'm unfair here.

The game does tell us what she was like as a general, but it comes up later so I'll spoilerpop my comments here…

I'll save this for later. I actually totally forgot, that you learn anything about the past of the generals. Good to know, that there is stuff in the game.

Cyan's one of my favourites in the game. I'm sure it owes in part to his character design (older, crag-faced mustachioed man), but I feel that he has a sense of weariness to him that the rest of the cast don't— like he's someone really weighed down by grief, duty, and general exhaustion. Someone who's lost everything but trudges on anyway, because he's got nothing else.

Totally. He reminds me a bit of Yang, like a version of him that lost everything at the beginning of the game. Well, at least in the sense, that there is a clear past to the character, and a life that was already lived (uh, that sounds a bit harsh, I don't mean it that way).

But yeah, even aside from that, he feels like one of the more flavourful characters. Also, he is an old guy in a series with mainly young people (though we do get a few older dudes from time to time). Or is he actually just 35, or something?

A timeline of the first few entries in the most relevant series here:

DQ1- May 27th, 1986
DQ2- Jan 26th, 1987
FF1- Dec 18th, 1987
PS1- Dec 20th, 1987
DQ3- Feb 10th, 1988
FF2- Dec 17th, 1988
PS2- Mar 20th, 1989
DQ4- Feb 11th, 1990
FF3- April 27th, 1990

That's... more dates than is relevant but I can't very well not share the oddity that Phantasy Star 2 predates the final famicom Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games by 13 and 11 months respectively. But anyway other games were messing around with fancy cutscenes and guest characters dropping in and out a good year prior to FF2.

Oh, nice post. Hmm, I still think that, from all these games, only FF2, PS2 and DQ4 have a storyline in the sense, that it strongly sends you from plot point to plot point. It is clumsily done in FF2 - the war isn't too strong of a connector, and the things that happen are still semi-random. But it still feels more of a throughline than something like FF3 or DQ3 did.

That said, PS2 did it basically at the same time, and if my memory is correct, did an even better job at this than FF2.

Phantasy Star is a fascinating series, that was ahead of it's time, in a lot of ways.

Did you use a phoenix down on the Train?

Nope, he just didn't put up a fight. Like, at all. It was really weird, I remember this fight being at least somewhat challenging.

*perks up expectantly*

Oh...

Ok, now I want to know what I missed. I just wasn't motivated to fight all kinds of ghosts, but I really should have talked to more of them.

I feel like there's an implication that he ran around town messing with soldiers and screwing up supply lines for a while, and then his scenario picks up with him needing to escape.

Yeah, when you start Lockes scenario, the game tells you that Locke actually managed to slow the people in South Figaro down. I guess at this point, it just became to dangerous here. But considering that you still do some stuff, like stealing clothes of merchants and a soldier, the game shows you that Locke is actually competent in this stuff.

 

[Torzelbaum]

Ok, now I want to know what I missed. I just wasn't motivated to fight all kinds of ghosts, but I really should have talked to more of them.

One/some of the ghosts can temporarily join your party while you're on the Train. My forum avatar and title are from the status screen info that is displayed for the ghost character. I can't exactly remember where on the train are the ghost(s) that can join. The ghost will leave the party before the boss fight.

 

[FelixSH]

I didn't know that! And I finally know, where your avatar comes from. Nice. If nothing else, this thread thaught me the origin of your and Beowulfs avatars.

 

[Mogri]

Those ghosts are indistinguishable from ghosts that will fight you and ghosts that are wandering vendors, and they're not the most helpful party members, but it's a nice touch all the same.

 

[Torzelbaum]

I'm just trying to help however I can.

 

[Lokii]

I'd rather have a ghost than not a ghost so I always make sure to have a ghost or two.

 

[FelixSH]

When I stopped last time, I was in the middle of Sabins scenario, the last of the three. We just arrived at the Veldt.

Ignoring Gau for now, we made our way to Moblitz, where we learn some sad context for the old man in the hut. I don't remember if we learn everything here, but I know now, that Gaus mother died, when giving birth, and that broke the mind of the father, who threw Gau out.

So, our next party member is sort-of Mowgli, raised by animals.

Aside from that, Moblitz is mainly connected to the rest of the world through carrier pidgeons, so they only know that a war has broken out - they are probably not on the Empires radar, yet.

We learn about diving helmets, that will make it possible to get us through the strong currents, to Nikea. They were stolen, though. Also, it's supposed to be one, but that doesn't really work for us. It reminds me a bit of the part, where you go underwater in FF I, even if you don't really use technology. Or do you, partly? I don't quite remember.

There is also the sad story of the soldier, who was forced into the Empires army, but fled and nearly paid with his life for it. His girlfriend, Lola, has written him a letter, but he is too hurt to even read it. We do it for him - it's a really nice, sad touch.

Anyway, we get some meat to give to Gau. Someone in the town mentions something about it, which is the only clue. But then, Gau got an introductory screen, and behaves different than the rest of the monsters (and looks different too). So, pretty obvious that there is something up here. Getting him results in a funny scene with Sabin and Cyan. I like this party, they play well off each other.

Gaus rage is pretty interesting, in being a mix of blue magic and berserker. I spent some time, getting all the available rages, and made a table with them. Some interesting stuff there, like the Stray Cat, but there are also Hornets with a powerful, regular attack, Ghosts and Clouds for Thundara, Cirpius for Hastega, Bomb for Blaze, Belmodar for Megavolt, Templar for Fira, and Unseelie for Shell. Plus all the weak monsters, that aren't worth using, but the ones I mentioned offer a ton of stuff.

It's the first time, that I really used Gau. Like all Blue Mages, he seemed too much work, especially when I had guys like Edgar and Sabin, who just dominate everything, just so. A shame, like all Blue Mages, Gau is pretty fun to use.

The restriction is, of course, that you can use only one of these in battle. Dunno, I would like to say something more interesting, but all I have is that I like this version of the Blue Mage. It's fun, and not quite as reliable as I generally like. But Stray Cat, Cloud and Templar alone are a great arsenal for Gau to use.

I do like the Veldt, with every regular monster in the game here (at least potentially). And a kid, that was raised here and, as a human, adapts to everything and can easily dominate the whole place. It's so...typically human. The good and evil of our adaptability is fascinating.

The trench is easy, and some more Mode 7. They went all out with that, didn't they? Also, does it matter in any way, which direction we take the two times? Does it just make the trench longer or shorter? Is there treasure, that you get only with the right directions?

For the third time in this scenario, we wake up after being knocked out by strong currents. We wake up in Nikea, where we find the midwife, who helped deliver Gau. Oh, right, she told us about the mothers death.

We also learn, that the ships from Nikea went to different harbors, earlier on. But they all fell to the Empire - we only can get to South Figaro now. I guess Nikea has to deal with the problem of working with the Empire now.

After a long time (seriously, Sabins scenario is longer than the other two combined), everyone meets up in Narshe, in the old mans house, where we left of with Terra, Edgar and Banon. They talk with the city Elder, when Sabin appears, and let's Cyan talk about his horrible tragedy.

Still, the Elder just hopes that staying neutral will keep Narshe save. Which is quite disappointing. I hoped, there was some in-game reason, why Narshe could withstand the Empire. Seems like there isn't, the Empire just had no reason to conquer it, for now. And by now, the Elder should know better, the Empire already just walked in and killed countless guardsmen.

At this point, Locke and Celes appear, and tell everyone about the planned attack. Kefka is on his way, and the Elder has no say anymore, he has to play defence now. We move north, to the cliffs before the Esper, from the start of the game.

There are some nice inter-personal moments in here. Like Cyan, who recognizes Celes and tells us that she is a damn powerful soldier (single-handedly decimated Maranda), and that he (unsurprisingly) doesn't trust her. That one moment makes her seem similar to Beatrix, from FF IX. I wouldn't be surprised, if Beatrix was a callback to Celes, with the difference that there was no Kefka in IX, that opened Beatrix' eyes. I guess I will get back to the comparison, when playing FF IX.

Other nice/interesting moments are, when Edgar explains to Celes, that Locke doesn't defend her because of herself, but for other, strange reasons. Not that she cared. Celes seems still pretty cold here, which fits. She probably still hasn't given up on the idea of being a soldier of the Empire, and being too proud for these resistance (remember, she would have prefered to die "honorably", when Locke saved her). But I do like, that the game actually acknowledges, that Locke isn't that great guy he appears to be, and that there is something more complex going on.

When talking to Terra, Celes seems less cold than to the others. Maybe it's the writing, but there seems to be some warmth for Terra (like Beatrix cares for Garnet?), because they know each other. We learn about the infusion of magic, that the Empire does, and that makes Terras and Celes' magic different.

Terra probably DOESN'T trust Celes. I can't read her question another way ("Are you able to love people?"). So, does Terra only know Celes, the slaughterer, and cold-hearted general?

The second tactics-like battle starts, and it was harder than I remembered. The last times, I just made one strong team (I guess with Terra, Celes, Sabin and Edgar) and killed everything with it. I guess the idea is, to make three equally strong parties, but it's just not necessary, not with how you can play this. Still, I tried to do it for real, and made three teams of roughly equal strengths (and forgot to write them down, damn!). Gau was probably my strongest character.

I had forgotten about Hell Rider, who was a decent sub-boss. Kefka was surprisingly brutal - I tried to stop his magic with Celes' Runic ability, but it just didn't really work out. There were always timing problems. I guess the fight would have been hard, if Gau didn't Cat Scratch the Joker to death. Who, again, flees.

I guess this is the climax and end of act one. We finally fight the jerk, that is the main face from the Evil Empire, and use everone in a big battle, with many antagonists. The battle is fittingly challenging, too. While it's still a bit weird, that seven people can stop the Empire, it did throw a ton of soldiers at us, which makes it actually work, that we did throw the Empire back.

From a story standpoint, we see Terra transform, for the first time, and fly away. We move away from running from the Empire. Now, we need to find out what's up with Terra. And the Empire did taste defeat, so we can assume that there is at least a short break.

It's the first time, where we can create our own team! And, something I just now realized, the first time in the whole series! Never before did we have more characters than space in our party. The only one where this was different was IV, but there, the game created the party for us. Guys, this is the first time, where we have to decide who sits on the bench!

It is nice, that the game tries to justify this (someone must protect the Esper, if the Empire comes back), but it's kind of flimsy, considering that only two people will be left. I left Locke, of course, he is weak and I still don't care much for him. Cyan also sat this one out.

We learn, that Terra flew to Kohlingen, which also can be reached by Edgars castle (it has two different routes to travel on). We meet Shadow there, who wants to stay alone. But, I assume if you only have three members, you might be able to recruit him, again? We also find Rachel, a sleeping(?) woman, who is often visited by Locke. I guess we would get some flavour, if he were here, but, oh well. Terra definitely came through - she destroyed a poo guys home.

Celes new best armor is a white dress. I guess I will just act, like they meant "robe", because it makes her magic stronger, if I remember correctly.

Going further south, we find Jidoor, a town with rich and poor people, though the latter were forced out. A class divide, another element that FF VII would take up with it's bigger cities.

Following the lead, we reach the horrible city Zozo. It's dark and moody, with constant rain, attacks everywhere and the stronger random encounters to date. The Hill Gigas (hey, the jerk from FF II!) was the lesser problem (not that confusion helps, his Quake just heals him). Way more often, I met these dancers that would just kill someone with Fira (or some other second-level spell). I got some hints for the clock puzzle, but wasn't motivated to search for the clock, and just stumbled upon Dadaluma, the boss here. When he started his second part, he pretty much immediately died - his underlings couldn't even get one attack out. Gau, I assume. And then, we find Terra.

This place is interesting. It's dangerous, and kind of awful. I'm curious, if we get attacked all the time, because we are strangers, or if everyone here is in constant danger of being killed. I kind of assume the former - it seems to me, that Dadaluma was protecting Terra, considering he was just chilling in front of her room. Did Ramuh help build the city? Is he the reason, why it is raining all the time? Does bad weather make him stronger?

BTW, before doing anything, I got the Hermes Sandals, and put them on Edgar.

We find Terra, still transformed, in bad. Ramuh appears, and tells us she is frightened, because she can't control her power.

We also get some exposition. Before the War of the Magi, Humans and Espers lived in peace together. But after the War, the Espers flew to a different realm that they created themselves. Which means that there was already, way in the past, a way to take the powers of Espers from them.

Way later, Gestahl mentions something about finally translating ancient texts, or something like that. So, either this war, or another one seems to have erased a lot of History, and even made a language into a dead one. I wished, we would learn something nice about this world, at one point. It feels kind of grimdark. In a 90s way, where the dark isn't completely overwhelming, but still. The game really sticks with the dark, with only few moments of levity on a personal level.

Anyway, 20 years ago, Gestahl and his troops found an entrance. He got a few Espers, but got thrown out, as the Espers created a gate that was even stronger than before. Most of the captured Espers have been in the Empire's Magitek Research Facility, where their power has been drained for the last twenty years, I guess. Ramuh escaped.

This is really grim. The only thing that even comes to mind, that is as horrifying as the situation of these Espers is what happened to Edges parents in FF IV. Someting about thinking creatures being victims to horrible, technological experiments, or similar, makes my skin crawl. FF VI isn't quite a dystopia, the way VII is, but it's damn close.

Ramuh explained that he summoned Terra, when she had lost control. She will get better, when she gets rid of her fear. He also says, that Gestahl methods are bad, not only morally, but just from a practical standpoint. Getting the power of an Esper is way easier and more effective, when the Esper dies, and becomes magicite.

And with this, he summons three magicites (I guess they died in the Magitek Research Facility?), and turns himself into one, and offers them all to us.

We get his last thoughts. That we need to free the other Espers from the Facility, maybe they can help Terra. But also, that if the Espers powers are used for destruction, the skies will darken and life will fade from the earth.

So, we still have crystals, right? They just took a different form. And what he says is, again, used in FF VII. Using up the power of the lifestream will destroy the planet. FF VII is really just FF VI, Take 2, isn't it? There are so many ideas reused and reinterpreted in that game, with a mood that is similar, just more intense. Well, I'll get there soon enough, but the more I play, the more these games seem like two parts of the same theme.

Also, I never realized that what we got in FF VII, with the abuse of the great power of the planet, is nothing else but a reinterpretation of the power of the Crystals, and how their abuse or destruction will also destroy the planet. FF VII just puts a new coat on the idea, and creates it's most modern interpretation - one about abusing nature in a very real way, which is less removed from us than some magical crytals. But, essentially, you can draw a line from FF I to FF VII, where it is always about some awful entity abusing great power, and bringing the planet near colapse. There are exceptions - II and VI don't quite fit in there, I think, but IVs version of the crystals is, essentially, quite different from the other games versions. Still, the espers and the lifestream are thematically very similar to the importance of the Crystals to the world.

With this, I will stop for now. I actually have played some more, but the post is already way too long.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Lokii]

Gaus rage is pretty interesting, in being a mix of blue magic and berserker. I spent some time, getting all the available rages, and made a table with them. Some interesting stuff there, like the Stray Cat, but there are also Hornets with a powerful, regular attack, Ghosts and Clouds for Thundara, Cirpius for Hastega, Bomb for Blaze, Belmodar for Megavolt, Templar for Fira, and Unseelie for Shell. Plus all the weak monsters, that aren't worth using, but the ones I mentioned offer a ton of stuff.

How long did you spend? Due to the way the encounter tables work some of these can be a big pain to get. I've spent hours just trying to get Templar before.

 

[FelixSH]

I think one hour? Maybe 1.5 hours? I did it while watching Netflix, so I'm not too sure. And I spent most of the time trying out and writing down the different Rages, so it would have been even faster otherwise. I might have missed a rare one, no idea - I didn't look up what I should have at this point. But when I had tried out all my Rages (just counted, 28), I hadn't gotten a new encounter in a while. I guess I was pretty lucky, at least with stuff like Templar and Stray Cat.

 

[Lokii]

Stray Cat's pretty easy to get but some of the others rely on some RNG. Lucky you!

I think Gau is a ton of fun to play with if you take the time to sink some work into him. Plus that cello theme. <3

I guess I just can't say no to a jungle boy.

 

[ASandoval]

Terra probably DOESN'T trust Celes. I can't read her question another way ("Are you able to love people?"). So, does Terra only know Celes, the slaughterer, and cold-hearted general?

I always interpreted this as a genuine question and part of Terra's existential dilemma. Her memories are still hazy from the slave crown and she really only knows herself as a weapon, one hunted by the empire and wanted by the returners, and now she's meeting another woman from the empire who also can use magic, albeit slightly differently. Terra's unsure of her own humanity at this point, with the ability to love and receive love being a recurring theme and hang up for her, something she's hoping the person from a similar background can help her figure out. It... doesn't go well.

 

[conchobhar]

I always interpreted this as a genuine question and part of Terra's existential dilemma. Her memories are still hazy from the slave crown and she really only knows herself as a weapon, one hunted by the empire and wanted by the returners, and now she's meeting another woman from the empire who also can use magic, albeit slightly differently. Terra's unsure of her own humanity at this point, with the ability to love and receive love being a recurring theme and hang up for her, something she's hoping the person from a similar background can help her figure out. It... doesn't go well.

I was in the midst of writing a post to this effect, only to see you beat me to the punch! I think it's a really great little exchange.

 

[Purple]

Terra probably DOESN'T trust Celes. I can't read her question another way ("Are you able to love people?"). So, does Terra only know Celes, the slaughterer, and cold-hearted general?

It has never even occurred to me to read that without the implied "because I can't, and we were both put through the same weird stuff." Which is pretty damn well supported by the text as the game goes on. The whole bit in the back half with the orphanage tying into not really having the proper drive to try the parenting thing from the more traditional angle.

I honestly have a hard time trying to find a non-queer reading on it, which might just be a perspective thing. "Terra is asexual and doesn't know if that's because of trauma or just her natural state." "Terra is gay and asking the butchest woman she knows what's up with that." "Magic-infusions from the empire are a stand-in for HRT and Terra's freaked out having hit that point where the new drivers get installed and stuff needs relearning." Take your pick, they all fit weirdly well.

 

[FelixSH]

I totally didn't think of that read, which I like way more than my own. I blame the heat.

Thanks.

 

[4-So]

The Serpent Trench is one of my favorite parts. Such great music. For whatever reason, when I was a kid I associated the Serpent Trench with the Serpent Road in FF4, although there's no real connective tissue.