Hades is out now, holy heck

[Sarcasmorator]

With the gun I immediately go for either of the multi-shell specials. Beyond that, whatever looks like it'll complement that best.

 

[Kalir]

All of my gun's strats are based on the hidden aspect for it, so my advice probably won't apply to the other kinds.

 

[Paul le Fou]

Oops, won 4 times in a row just spamming festive fog over and over again. Granted you kind of need a zeus or demeter duo to really make it overpowered but those aren’t too hard to come by. Kinda makes that whole choosing a weapon step a little pointless.

Not necessarily; there are weapon aspects that specifically synergize well with casting, making your cast-spam even better! A sword aspect increases cast damage and the special pulls crystals out of enemies; Achilles' spear aspect boosts your next 4 casts or attacks; Talos fist's magnetic cutter increases cast damage taken; Eris gun aspect increases all damage, including cast damage. The Hera bow aspect or 4th shield aspect let you load those casts into other attacks for a different style. And sometimes you just don't get the boons you need for Ultimate Casting, of course.

But yeah, on one of my last runs I had a build that was pretty much just cast-cast-cast-cast-cast-dead. 5 cast crystals, dropped faster, exit wounds, poseidon cast with an epic 40% boost to bosses, backstab damage on cast, can't remember if I had lightning (or was it the pos/dem duo?)... At one point I blasted Hades with all of them and I think it did almost 4000 damage. I don't even remember what weapon I had with that, but I think it was the Achilles spear so I was boosting those casts by a lot, too.

How do folks build the gun? Right now I'm trying to win with Hestia. After that, I just need a spear win.

Also, can I say it's extremely disappointing the Hestia shot is not effected by the shotgun blast hammer?

Hestia aspect, the biggest thing is that you want a % boost on your bullets (a lot of boosts if you can), definitely, since that boosts the really strong first shot. Demeter has one of the highest % boosts, and since the gun fires fast, you can build a lot of chill quickly with Demeter (and get the "explode on 10 stacks" for a bit of extra damage). Aphrodite's % is also high and has a good debuff (which can get some good riders on it). Artemis for crit chance? Poseidon has a % boost too, and poseidon on gun can be really fun as you push enemies way back into a wall and slam them into it repeatedly, but it won't be the most-optimal for your Hestia hits (gotta get the boss-boost too, which will help). Any hammers that boost normal attacks get priority. Avoid Zeus/Dio/Ares for attack, since the damage curses won't get the Hestia boost.
-As for special, I guess I'd go with Aphrodite; the boon to add damage vulnerability to weakened enemies would work well for those Hestia blasts.
-Casts...Can't think of any particularly synergistic ones, so best would be any of them that stick in the target to get the extra 50% damage for that Hestia blast again: Artemis might be the simplest and most straightforward for that, Poseidon can also keep you safe with its big knockback area; Athena sticks, it's slow but reflects for a bit of safety, and you can add the exposed debuff to boost the Hestia blasts even more if you land the backstab, so it's most technical but highest return; Aphrodite sticks but it's short, and Zeus sticks but unreliably because of the bouncing.


I usually run Eris out of the normal aspects, because it's a pretty significant boost to all damage that's easy to keep running. Start a room by blasting myself, then basically any time I run out of ammo I launch another special while reloading so I don't have any downtime; Zeus (or Dionysus, to a degree) on attack for rail is just so powerful (but doesn't work with Hestia at all), it feels more natural to me, and the Eris boost is to all damage. Poseidon is a decent boost for the special on this one because you're standing in the blast radius, so pushing enemies away can be a nice help. Aphrodite too, for the same reason. I find that Dio's fog is a decent cast for this, since it can help protect you in a blast area w/ stun, damage reduction, or whatever else you combine with it (and it has a couple duos that deal tons of damage); I think any high-damage cast is good though, since you're keeping such a big damage boost up. %attack speed from Hermes and/or hammers works really well with an attack-based output here, obviously. (Avoid the special for bigger and wider special that damages you as well, though...)


For the 4th aspect, Zeus as usual, OR, the super-soaker build with Poseidon(+zeus duo if at all possible, for sick zappps) on attack, to spray them back into walls; boost those slams (and make sure you get your boss damage boost). Artemis/Dem/Aph might be good too because of the escalating damage, but that would rely on being able to consistently build to late in the sequence to do the really big damage (Definitely look for Hermes' attack speed boost; the "starts firing faster" hammer is always good but would be even more important with those; I think there's a "escalates higher or faster" hammer too?). On Special I've really liked Aphrodite and Demeter for big booms and pulsing debuff, but I feel like Dio or Zeus would also do well because of the pulsing. The big thing that really blows the 4th aspect wide open IMO is getting the hammer to launch 3 specials quickly - triple the pulse damage and explosion are NASTY, or you can cover a lot more area with them, etc. Faster Special from Hermes combos extremely well with that.

And uh I just use Athena dash pretty much all the time forever.

 

[Kalir]

I keep telling people, if it has a big active hitbox (secret rail aspect special), it's tailor-made for Athena! Why don't they believe me :<

 

[Paul le Fou]

Hmm, I can totally see the secret rail aspect's special doing well because you can plant deflection safe zones around... I never had much luck with Athena on attacks since even with the fists or flurry sword enough would get through that I didn't feel very safe using it defensively. I haven't messed around more with Athena on attack or special largely because I don't prioritize defensive playstyles so much, though I can see them being very useful for that. What other Athena stuff do you use? Zeus aspect special, secret rail special... I can see it being really good on a normal or hera bow's special, too, covering all that ground.

 

[Kalir]

Assuming we're just talking Divine Strike/Flourish...

Sword: Flourish makes a great bullet hell bomb no matter the aspect. Strike isn't really worth using.
Spear: How fast can you get Quick Spin? If you get it before you have an attack boon, Strike is considerable (especially for the secret aspect).
Shield: Flourish is decent for Chaos aspect and really good for Zeus aspect. Strike isn't bad to have if you're doing a lot of bull rushing.
Bow: As you said, Flourish is respectable for Zagreus or Hera aspects. You could make a case for Strike on the secret aspect, MAYBE.
Fists: At best, you could use Strike here, but honestly you have so many other, better choices no matter your aspect.
Rail: Obviously, Strike or Flourish is really good for the secret aspect, but you can also use Strike with Zagreus or Eris aspects pretty handily.

 

[Paul le Fou]

So, after ~125 hours, I've put the game down. I got the epilogue, and did so by finishing its requirements during - and triggering it right after - my 100th run exactly, which felt like the perfect spot. (After the epilogue, on that same visit to the House, I also managed to get Orpheus to talk to me and complete my last prophecy on the list, for extra finality.) (I found there was one more on the list after that, except no there isn't, it doesn't exist, la la la I can't hear you.)

Total was 67 clears out of those 100, I believe (2 away...), and longest streak was 27 (and counting; still active at the end). Best heat was 13 with the bow followed by 12 with the rail, mostly because I just crept up one at a time with the heat and switched weapons around a lot. Never did do an EM4 run; there's stuff I can do if I go back to it, but I'm going to play some other stuff in the meantime. This game is....................good.

 

[ShakeWell]

The best luck I've had with the gun is using the Daedalus boon that makes the bomb do 500% damage (but it will damage you if you're nearby). I got to Hades with it, which is the best I've done with the Adamant Rail, period. And I know a couple folks who escaped with it.

Also, I fought (and beat) Charon for the first time last night. That was unexpected.

 

[R.R. Bigman]

I've run up against a problem I don't think I can overcome. I just can't comprehend what is happening in some spots, namely the final boss. The small size of the characters is manageable when there are less things on the screen, and when the enemies and backgrounds are certain colors. I'm at least slightly colorblind, and some of the colors being used in certain enemy attacks might be telegraphed in colors I can't see. I looked in the settings and there are no options to zoom in the camera or help with colorblindness. My eyes are always so tired after a half hour of playing, so I may just have to turn on God Mode and hope I can brute force my way to seeing what happens in the fairly intriguing story.

 

[R.R. Bigman]

Spoiler: Mad rantings like beyond

After 26 attempts, I beat Hades. Only for him to say ,"JK, I have another life bar and here's a bunch of new attacks", and then proceeded to easily kill me because my brain had simply checked out after that. It's at that moment that I realized that for all it's airs that it puts on about narrative and storytelling, Hades is just a videogame-ass videogame that doesn't want to really push the medium forward. All the thousands of lines of dialogue are merely overwritten window dressing to make you think there's more to this dumb action game with four stages that you have to do over and over again than there really is. Despite all the characters knowing it's stupid and pointless, you have to fight the same four bosses over and over. There's no sidequests or clever trick to finagle some way to either avoid them or engineer a way to make them be at a different place when you reach the boss chamber. It's just Git Gud and here's some mostly worthless permanent upgrades. If you're really struggling there's a toggle in the options menu that makes enemy attacks hurt a bit less. Jesus Christ, can't I just get Meg drunk at the lounge so she deals less damage or buy Cerberus a chew toy so I don't have to guess which of five chambers full of poisonous enemies has the key item before I get to fight Shitty Dad with TWO Life Bars!?

 

[R.R. Bigman]

A few hours after writing that screed above I went back and played another two runs. I was hoping the mysterious power of Complaining would give me the edge I needed, but my efforts were in vain. Got enough money to buy a diamond, though.

 

[jpfriction]

Took me like 30 tries before my first escape and then I had ten in a row. You’ll find a combo of boons you like.

 

[Zef]

A question: I'm about to buy this game, such is the power of public praise (plus there's the whole mythology thing going on), but I've also read lots of comments of "multiple runs" or "just one more run" and so forth, so... is it the kind of roguelike I can keep at, and make progress through persistence, attrition, and sheer bloody-mindedness, or is it a Dead Cells situation where I will eventually hit a skill wall and will never actually see the end of the story?

 

[Denn]

Early on, bad luck or good luck can have a big impact on how far you get, especially if there's a rare boon that jives with your playstyle. I used to need the hammer upgrade to the sword that lets you heal automatically, for example. Or there's a legendary boon where you heal over time if you're out of Death Defy. I've literally never lost with that one.

Personally, I find Hades to be significantly more fair and forgiving than other Rougelikes/Rougelites I've played (I'm looking at you, Spelunky 2!), and it sounds like you're on a normal pace (based on how many tries it took the people I know), so don't get discouraged! Unless you're not enjoying things, it might not be your type of game.

A question: I'm about to buy this game, such is the power of public praise (plus there's the whole mythology thing going on), but I've also read lots of comments of "multiple runs" or "just one more run" and so forth, so... is it the kind of roguelike I can keep at, and make progress through persistence, attrition, and sheer bloody-mindedness, or is it a Dead Cells situation where I will eventually hit a skill wall and will never actually see the end of the story?

It's a Roguelite, so you gain abilities over time that make future runs easier. But you also tend to improve over time (both technically and with knowledge). I'd say that if you enjoy the combat, you'll make it through.

 

[karzac]

A question: I'm about to buy this game, such is the power of public praise (plus there's the whole mythology thing going on), but I've also read lots of comments of "multiple runs" or "just one more run" and so forth, so... is it the kind of roguelike I can keep at, and make progress through persistence, attrition, and sheer bloody-mindedness, or is it a Dead Cells situation where I will eventually hit a skill wall and will never actually see the end of the story?

Yes, the whole game is built around the idea that you can eventually win through persistence. And if you're really having trouble, you can turn on a mode where you gain damage resistance every time you die.

Most people seem to make it out for the first time in the 20-30 run range. A single run takes between 30-45 minutes, depending on your play style.

The intensity and style of action of a single run feels very similar to Dead Cells, but there are way more permanent upgrades you can acquire. And the writing, art, music and general vibe are all way better than Dead Cells.

 

[Regulus]

Look ma, no boons:

 

[karzac]

No gods, no masters.

 

[Paul le Fou]

It's a Roguelite, so you gain abilities over time that make future runs easier. But you also tend to improve over time (both technically and with knowledge). I'd say that if you enjoy the combat, you'll make it through.

I'd add that "enjoy the combat" may vary strongly with weapons. I was struggling and getting frustrated on my first handful of runs, then I switched to the spear and got past the boss that had stymied me, past the next boss, and all the way to the third boss on my first run with it. Part of that might have also been getting a really good hammer that gelled with my style for that weapon, or getting good boons, but to this day the sword is my least favorite weapon by a longshot and the bow my favorite, with one certain aspect of the shield being great for me as well and the 6th weapon being pretty fun too. So experiment with the different weapons as you go, and try different combinations of boons when you can.

And always get Athena's dash.

 

[Denn]

And always get Athena's dash.

 

[Fyonn]

The true Hades begins when you first think "Do I really want Athena's dash this run, though???"

A lot of Athena's boons are extremely good, but Athena's dash is never the wrong choice for any given build. It's always at least pretty nice to have.

 

[Regulus]

It's also good regardless of rarity.

 

[Mogri]

Let me tell you about Flood Dash, though: it one-shots numbskulls.

 

[R.R. Bigman]

I both defeated and escaped Hades. I used the Nemesis aspect of the sword, which gives 15% chance of a critical for 7 seconds after attacking with the special. I used Artemis' keepsake for a lucky blessing that increased critical chances and damage, which helped a lot. I also got some good synergy with a Chaos boon that increased the money I earned with a second boon that increased attack damage by a percentage of your carried money. The hammer buff that restored health per attack helped a whole lot, of course.

I was expecting some kind of big reward upon clearing the game, but nothing new unlocked. All the folks in Hades House say just keep doing more escape runs, despite Zagreus'... condition. What do I work towards now?

 

[Sarcasmorator]

The first clear is your first clear, it's not the end. The game is really meant to be beaten over and over and over. It takes ten clears to get the credits and some resolution to the primary storyline. It takes much more than that to max out all your relationships and get the epilogue (which I haven't yet).

The good news is that if you've beaten it once, it'll get easier to beat from here on out. Maybe not right away, but as you build out the rest of your mirror abilities and upgrade your weapons with titan blood, unlock new aspects, etc. And if you haven't started a new run, you've missed that something DID unlock: the Pact of Punishment. This lets you add difficulty in various ways (none too difficult at low settings) so that you can earn more of the high-end rewards with each weapon as you finish more runs.

What I found is that eventually I stopped trying to go for efficient runs. I'd start mixing it up, doing new things for variety, taking suboptimal boons to see how I'd do, because actually beating Hades was becoming pretty trivial. And the way the dialogue and relationships with the characters change kinda support this over time.

There's a lot left to do, if you want to do it.

 

[aturtledoesbite]

Let me tell you about Flood Dash, though: it one-shots numbskulls.

so does most things

 

[R.R. Bigman]

I will definitely keep going. I already have nearly every mirror ability maxed out, but I want to try more weapon aspects. Need more of that titan blood.

 

[Paul le Fou]

Things to work towards:
-The story keeps developing over subsequent clears, up to ten clears to get the credits.
-Collecting more boss-reward bounties via the pact of punishment. At first, that's mostly getting more titan blood to unlock and rank up weapon aspects (and diamonds and ambrosia, but focus on blood first). Experimenting with different aspects and finding powerful ones that feel comfortable to use. Leveling a weapon aspect up can make a huge difference in its power, which leads to more, and more reliable, clears for yet more bounties. (I don't recommend putting any blood into Aspect of Zagreus for any given weapon, btw.)
-Leveling up relationships through giving more nectar to the point where you have a quest to do for them. After the quest, you can give them ambrosia instead of nectar - In return for the first ambrosia you give them, six of the characters give you items that let you summon them as supermoves X times/run (the times/run rank are also leveled up with ambrosia) .
-Clearing out prophecies on the prophecy list (these rewards can also be a good way to get blood and ambrosia (and you can always trade an ambrosia for a blood, which I did a lot.)


...Ugh no why am I considering starting a new data file to run from scratch again noooooooooooo I'll just do the odd run here and there on my current file it'll be less addictive aaaaaaaagh

 

[karzac]

Glad to hear that you escaped and are still enjoying it, Bigman!

 

[Mogri]

so does most things

Not most dashes!

 

[Kalir]

Learn to not take Divine Dash. You have iframes on the dash already. Make it do other cool things instead!