All aboard the Vore Express! Talking about Monster Train!

[Mogri]

Have you been doing the covenant ranks? In particular, once you finish covenant 20, you unlock the "expert challenges," which give you some cool new ways to approach the game (not all of them actually more difficult than normal).

Also, if you have the DLC, it's 60 champion/secondary combinations instead of 20. Even if you ignore Exiled versus not, one new extra clan takes it from 20 to 30 combinations.

The fifth clan does take unreasonably long to unlock, but it's also the most flavorful and unique. You might look into editing your save file to get the unlock if you don't want to wait it out.

 

[YangusKhan]

So apparently the Melting Remnant clan just whips ass and I managed to get this amazing floor against Seraph as my first win:

Spoiler

I think I need to resume turning up the Covenant ranks now that I exercised my Monster Train muscles again.

 

[JBear]

It's always seemed to be that the designers of this game balanced it for players who are just better/faster learning at these games than I am.

That's funny, because I also thought that the Melting Remnant took way too long to unlock and my takeaway was that I was annoyed that game designers always seem to balance for players who are worse than I am. Like, my covenant level was already pretty high by that point and I still hadn't unlocked all the factions, so I felt like the unlocks were balanced around me failing more and making progress towards the unlocks but not getting wins.

So I promise I'm not saying this to make Yangus feel bad, but I've now played a total of six games of Monster Train and I've won five of them. It's a fun enough game, but either I'm strangely good at it or else it's just too easy. There's only one combination of clans left for me to play right now and if the next clan doesn't unlock soon then I might end up putting this down soon. I've been enjoying it! But I think I need them to dangle that carrot a little further out of reach if they want me to stick with the game for longer.

Bump up the covenant? I promise that you won't find this game too easy at Covenant 25. Some of the covenant breakpoints layer in new wrinkles that make it seems like an entirely different game. To me, it feels like Covenant 25 is the intended difficulty, and everything up until that point is just layering in changes until players feel comfortable there. Also, once you get to 25, you unlock the expert challenges, and those were my favourite part of the game.

ETA: Er, didn't see Mogri's reply when I wrote this. I think I must have missed a page. Whoops!

 

[Mogri]

Yep, except that I forgot that MT goes to 25.

Fortunately, unlike StS, that progression is unlocked across clans.

 

[JBear]

That is an important distinction. I fell off Slay the Spire because I pretty much never lost and immediately began win-streaking heart kills and felt like I couldn't ramp up the difficulty fast enough to suit my tastes, and didn't want to grind out wins to get there. Making Ascension global would likely have made a big difference.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Wait, you can bump up the covenant at will? I thought you had to win a round at each covenant level to move it up further. Well, either way, I just unlocked the fourth clan, so learning them will keep me occupied for another couple of runs. I also started unlocking alternate champions, which could also freshen things up somewhat. Plus, I'm still not super reliable with the Stygians - I've come up with a few creature pairings that work well, but I really don't know what to do with their default champion yet. I tried the channeler build (the one that reduces the price of attack spells), but didn't have enough card draw to make much use of it and wound up losing in the early game. That does remind me of one thing I really like about this game, though, which is the predictable buffs you gain every time you beat a boss. Knowing that you can choose to increase your energy/increase your card draw/stack more monsters at specific points makes it easier to build your deck. In fact, maybe that's why I find this game generally easier than Spire? Removing cards is a lot easier, and the starting cards tend to retain some usefulness as you go along, depending on your build. In Spire, it's a constant fight to get rid of the chaff, whereas in my last successful Train run I actually didn't even make use of the last card removal station that I got to, because I liked everything in my deck.

 

[Mogri]

You do have to win each covenant to unlock the next one - you just don't have to do it separately for each clan.

I like frostbite Tethys as a boss-killer (except against cleanse Seraph). You can splash in sweep if you struggle against waves.

 

[YangusKhan]

That's funny, because I also thought that the Melting Remnant took way too long to unlock and my takeaway was that I was annoyed that game designers always seem to balance for players who are worse than I am. Like, my covenant level was already pretty high by that point and I still hadn't unlocked all the factions, so I felt like the unlocks were balanced around me failing more and making progress towards the unlocks but not getting wins.

Yeah, on thinking about it more, I'd say they just tuned the "enemies killed" number a little too high for that clan unlock if it's frustrating for both of us.

I'm starting to think I'm not actually that bad at this game anymore, it just took me a bit longer to get into the learning curve (understandably so). My mindset for approaching a run lately has been something like "just focus on making sure I can beat the major bosses + Seraph" because the minor waves have really not been an issue if I do that. I am still on Covenant 3 though, so I'm sure I'll hit a problem eventually as I keep climbing the ranks.

 

[JBear]

*bump*-ing for Bongo.

How about that train, huh? Still full of ghouls and gobbos?

(This may be one of my favourite games of all time, but I think Last Divinity was a step too far for me. They just layered in one or two mechanics too many; I prefer the base experience. I had 100% cheevos and logbook before the patch, but fell off hard soon after it hit.)

 

[Mogri]

The DLC wasn't as good as the base game, but that's praise by way of faint damnation as far as I'm concerned. I fired it back up a couple weeks ago and found I hadn't even seen all of the DLC cards or even all forms of the Wyrmkin champions, which is much more of an indictment. But, like, I have over 200 hours in Monster Train. I don't dislike The Last Divinity; it's just that it only provided me with the desire to put another 50 hours into the game. That's still pretty good.

 

[JBear]

I mean, same, on all counts. My Steam played is just a hair short of 360 hours. I like it quite a bit.

 

[YangusKhan]

I played a couple runs of this again last night. First time on Covenant 1 because I thought I'd be rusty, but that went extremely stompy using the Reform-tree Rector Flicker. Then I did Covenant 5 using the Little Fade Champion, and well...

I don't understand how to use Little Fade's other two paths. "Slay: Gain attack and spikes" is dubious on a 1-health unit, and "Extinguish: Give everyone else stats but also burnout 2" is a tough sell when your deck has zero burnout units to start with. "Extinguish: Become ridiculous" is a little tricky to use, but it's head and shoulders above the other two.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. 2 years later and this is still the case! I guess they haven't gone back to do a re-balance pass since the DLC came out? The other paths are just really awkward, whereas the Endless variant I had them hitting for 300+ damage on Seraph and they put in a ton of work during enemy waves as well. The only benefit I see for the "Slay: +Attack and Spikes" variant is that it's permanent for the entire run, which can certainly get pretty snowbally; I got a taste of this from an early Epic unit that had "Extinguish: +8 Attack permanently." But the other Extinguish variant? IMO it's unplayable unless you get a whole bunch of starting Burnout cards.

I still haven't played with the Exile Champion for Awoken, Umbra or Hellhorned, so I suppose those are next.

I also still haven't bought the DLC yet... from what I can see, it adds a whole bunch of difficulty twists to the game and I'm not really at that level yet. But it also adds a new Faction and some more cards across the board, so maybe I should just get it? But I guess my question is: can I turn off the new Shards mechanic and the Superboss and still get the rest of the content?

 

[Mogri]

You can't turn off the shards, but you can ignore them. The superboss is only activated if you get to 100 shards.

Stuff that gives shards also gives absurd power boosts, so if you stay below 100 shards, you'll generally end up in a way stronger position (although note that possessing shards will power up normal enemies here and there).

There's enough in the base game that I would recommend holding off on the DLC until you've at least tried everything.

Oh, and spiky Little Fade can also get ridiculous, especially with some armor

 

[YangusKhan]

I had another question: is there ever a Covenant rank that gets rid of the terrible starting 4 copies of the train steward units? I'm pretty tired of having to spend gold and vortex nodes to get rid of them in every single run.

 

[Mogri]

No, your starting deck only gets worse as you go up in covenant level.

I personally prioritize removing low-value spells, since a unit that is played will not be drawn for the rest of that combat.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Sometimes I consider buying this game when it goes on sale on Steam, but I played it through Game Pass (Windows store) and I can't stomach the idea of having to start a new save file. Wonder if there's an easy way to transfer your progress over?

 

[Mogri]

I'm sure it's just a matter of locating the right files. Achievements wouldn't carry over, of course, but the unlocks are more important anyway.

 

[Paul le Fou]

Just started this the other day and have been playing it Very Much since then.

I had the most luck getting my first wins with Awakened main and others supporting, especially once I unlocked the exiled champion and started using him instead (though I've unlocked a few more spine-related cards since then, might be worth a try again). Though growing thorn-wardens with a bagillion health was always a lot of fun.

Hellhorned are fine but I feel like they're better as supporters, since they're pretty straightforward. Like, the armor stuff is pretty cool, but still pretty plain? Stygian doesn't do much for me - it feels like it's too finnicky to get their good combos going consistently, or something, though I do love Sweeping enemies with Frostbite. The Wurmkin are neat but I feel like their special resource is juuust a bit too scarce for all the demands that consume it (like eggs).

The Umbra quickly became my favorites once I unlocked them, so I followed up by racking up wins with them. What can I say, feeding morsels to my crew and watching them grow crazy strong was Very Good. I also liked that they had a lot of extra sources for ember generation, which I always greatly appreciated, and made up pretty well for needing the space-expanders after bosses. I definitely preferred the main champion to the alternate; it just doesn't seem as useful at first glance although I'm sure there's some specific build or trick that makes it even stronger.

Then I unlocked Them Waxy Boys just last night or this morning, and they quickly overtook the Umbra to become my favorites. Letting my dudes get ground up and just bringing them back stronger than ever was immensely satisfying, not to mention powerful and strategically flexible, especially combined with the hellhorns' strong-but-low-defense guys (and Inferno, though I didn't get to use it ) . I just ignored extra armor stuff and suddenly every level was packed with very strong boys. In fact, I lost my last run only because I overpacked some of my floors and didn't have room to bring back my resurrected boys as the boss moved up, leaving weaker ones filling space. I also need to figure out balancing Reform and Endless - a couple times I'd forget and a boy I played with the intent of getting him reformed came back Endless instead, without the extra strength. Especially since I had the (otherwise amazing) trinket where my first boy played on each turn gets endless. Feeling out when I want a card back the very next turn and when I want it to get stronger instead (also, the timing of how reform works with burnout and deaths) is next on my list.

 

[JBear]

Glad to hear you immediately took to the Melting Remnant, but anecdotally, that makes you very much the exception. Most people that I've spoken to (including myself) find them to be the hardest faction to grok, which is why I assumed they were left as the last unlock.

 

[YangusKhan]

Melting Remnant owns bones (or... doesn't in this case, since they're made of wax). They may take a smidge more brain power to get your bearings, but IMO they are the strongest faction.

 

[JBear]

I feel like the factions are pretty well-balanced, myself. I definitely have some that I prefer over others, but I think that comes down to style, not efficacy.

 

[Mogri]

For me, Stygian is the strongest faction by far. Ostensibly the spell-focused faction, they also have the best units (Sirens and Cold Shark).

 

[JBear]

I mean, if we're talking non-Champion units, my faves are the Umbra chompy bros, no contest. (I've been away from the game way too long to remember names, but the ones that gain Lifesteal and Damage Shield when they eat.) That said, the pair you listed might be a close second. Spell decks are some of the most fun to pilot.

 

[Paul le Fou]

Oh yeah, the Chompy Bros are definitely very good, and put in lots of work when I play Umbra.

I've yet to find a spell deck that really works for me; they just seem less consistent and reliable for not significantly more power. Though I've definitely nuked some bosses with massive spells before, to be sure.

 

[Mogri]

The trick is to get a unit that doesn't care what you're casting so long as you're casting. Stick Multistrike and Incant: 2 Armor on the Rage Siren and go to town.

 

[Paul le Fou]

So I did another Waxy Boys with Hellhorn supporter run and, for the first time, 1. went over 100 shards, 2. still beat Seraph, and 3. beat the "true final boss" on my first time running into it. CAN I GET A WHAT WHAT HELL YEAH FOR THOSE WAXY BOYS

 

[Mogri]

Nice job! The Final Divinity is a big jump in difficulty.

 

[Paul le Fou]

UGH I just had a run of Stygian + Awakened, where I had the champion that basically tanks hits for frostbite, right? I absolutely slaughtered everything in my path up the the Final Divinity (Seraph died with a little over 1000 frostbite on him) and I absolutely would have had FD easily if frostbite stacks didn't get erased at the end of every turn. So the whole point of frostbite is lost and turns into just another damage spell, and suddenly pretty much all my boss damage evaporated.

Oh well. The shitty part is that I didn't get credit for the Seraph kill as a victory, so I'll need to do another run without breaking 100 artifacts (or not using them at all) to tick off that box and get my gold special cards. nyeh!

 

[JBear]

Deaths to the bonus boss not counting as Seraph kills has always struck me as an odd and frustrating decision, and may well be what ultimately soured me on the Final Divinity expansion and finally broke the Monster Train spell for me after some 360 hours logged on Steam. So thanks, Final Divinity, I guess, for giving me my life back? lol

We had a good run!

 

[Paul le Fou]

I went ahead and turned off the shards entirely because I'm currently trying to fill out the Wins icons, to get one with every combination.

I've had a lot of neat runs, but one of the most memorable/unique ones was the Consume spell build with Wurmkin (Awakened sub). I went with the alt hero and the upgrade route to bring back 1 consumed spell per turn as a Resolve, so I was churning through them like crazy. I also had a relic to make 2 copies of the first consume spell I cast in each battle, and I also had the "do 30 damage when you cast a Consume spell" relic. It was probably the spell-iest spell build I've played, charging up tons of infusions for damage spells and unit buffs, adding consume to my spells willy-nilly, just blasting away. with them. If I had one realization it was that I had too many consume spells - I was getting +20 regens and wurmkin damage plinkers back instead of, say, "spend your ridiculous amount of ember to add +bajillion Reap to enemy" and other more fun ones. But overall it was a crazy hectic build by the end, and a lot of fun.

Other fun moments on runs was finally setting up that Stygian offering spell for crazy damage with offering tokens and getting free blasts of 260 (before spell weakness, which I definitely did combine). Also, triggering feeding on a morsel 14+ times, getting my Umbra champion up to like, 390 attack and 210 health or something absurd like that, and having a morselmaker provide a constant stream of fuel for my autoloader dude (buffed with quick). Some sick siren buffs, Hellhorned champions reaching crazy-high power (I looooove the trinket that makes rage stop decaying, holy piss), and having fun with Little Kite, the endless dying secondary Waxy Boys champion who also upgrades to attack values somewhere between 150 and Stupid.

I can feel myself losing a bit of steam, but I'm close enough that I shouldn't have a problem getting a win for each combination, and feel like I have enough of a hang of the systems that no normal run combo should pose an insurmountable obstacle for me (as long as I don't make some sort of stupidly obvious mis-play, which is absolutely not a guarantee). I'm barely reaching the point where I can reach the final divinity, I wouldn't say consistently but also not irregularly, but still only have 2 wins against it. Feh!