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A Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy: The Star Wars Thread

karzac

karzac

(he/him)
WisteriaHysteria said:
Seems like this show's M.O. is to have two and a half episodes of plodding dialog, followed by half an episode of action that is more dramatic tension by weight than cool fights/set pieces.

I don't hate this show, I just kinda wish it was better planned out. (Edit: in the meta sense. The actual planning that must have gone into this show itself is really impressive.) I wish this show came first instead of Rogue One, and that it wasn't called Andor. Knowing the Rogue One M.O., it's not surprising that almost everyone died in the heist. And also knowing that a show is titled after a character, and is also a prequel to something else means there's almost no dramatic tension either because he'll have invincible plot armor the whole way. Which depending on the type of show isn't a terrible thing, but in a more grounded show like Andor where it's relying on dramatic tension more than anything else, and the harrowing feeling of vulnerability since he's just a regular dude and not a space-wizard, it very much undercuts things for me at least. I think if the show followed a character that wasn't Andor but still did most of the same things it would be a much more compelling experience.

I thought the tribal ritual was beyond weird.
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I disagree with this. First off, I don't think there's any moment in the show where it tries to make you think Cassian is about to die (which is often the fake-tension trap that prequels fall into that you're talking about.) The show is not about "What happens to Cassian Andor"? It's about "What happens to Cassian Andor that makes him the person we meet in Rogue One". In that way, knowing the outcome helps set up the dramatic tension: we know where Cassian starts and where he ends up, and the show is about the journey from A to B.

That said, I think your proposal that the show would be just as interesting if it weren't a prequel is probably true. But knowing the main character won't die throughout it doesn't really weaken it.
 
Phantoon

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Yeah, I agree with everything you say, Karzac. It's not groundbreaking per se (although telling a story like this in Star Wars absolutely is), it's just a really interesting story being given proper time to brew.
 
karzac

karzac

(he/him)
I love how many little character moments you get that aren't directly plot related. Nemek being proud of his models, Carn's nagging mother and sad blue cereal, Mon Mothma's broken marriage, Andor's old broken down droid. It's full of life in way this stuff just hasn't been usually.
 
Bongo

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
I like Rogue One a lot, but it suffered from executive meddling - albeit to the least degree among the four post-buyout films. You have to dig a little bit to find the "real" story where Jyn and Saw have substance and grime to 'em.

I think Disney put all their eggs in the Obi-Wan basket and sent Andor out to die, which allowed it to be good instead. At least, by reputation. I'll probably start watching once the last episode has dropped.
 
WisteriaHysteria

WisteriaHysteria

That's really just fascist work camps though. The slowest people get tortured to make example of. Keep your prisoners busy competing against each other so they can't all unite in common cause. I like that this show is attempting to be relevant by instructing its audience what fascism looks like. I still think Disney is cowardly for not showing what Fascism sounds like and its ideology.
 
Phantoon

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
WisteriaHysteria said:
That's really just fascist work camps though. The slowest people get tortured to make example of. Keep your prisoners busy competing against each other so they can't all unite in common cause. I like that this show is attempting to be relevant by instructing its audience what fascism looks like. I still think Disney is cowardly for not showing what Fascism sounds like and its ideology.
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Who says they won't? Andor is in the outer rim, where the Imperial presence isn't as strong. If we see that it'll be through Mon Mothma, who's sat there in Coruscant. Also the story is fleshing her out into an incredible character; she actually has stuff to lose and there she is, fighting away in the belly of the beast regardless.
 
karzac

karzac

(he/him)
WisteriaHysteria said:
That's really just fascist work camps though. The slowest people get tortured to make example of. Keep your prisoners busy competing against each other so they can't all unite in common cause. I like that this show is attempting to be relevant by instructing its audience what fascism looks like. I still think Disney is cowardly for not showing what Fascism sounds like and its ideology.
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Haven't they been? All the stuff with the ISB and Carn (especially that first scene where he recruits Mosk) has been people reciting fascist and imperialist talking points.
 
Adrenaline

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
Except for identifying the evil others who are causing all the problems our fascist saviors are here to fix.
 
Adrenaline

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
If you like Clone Wars at all you should watch Tales of the Jedi on Disney+. It's 6 short episodes, 3 each about Dooku and Ahsoka, filling out their stories in some interesting ways.
 
Sarcasmorator

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
I need to watch the last two but I liked the Dooku stuff a lot. Could have gone deeper, but he has actual events that caused disillusionment now!
 
Adrenaline

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
Andor is an unreasonably good TV show. Unfairly raising expectations for any other thing they do with Star Wars.
 
WisteriaHysteria

WisteriaHysteria

karzac said:
Andy Serkis killed it in last night's Andor.
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I'm not as high on the show as most of y'all, but it's almost predictable at this point to have Serkis in something and just really steal literally every single scene he's in, no matter what his character means to the plot or what he's doing. Dude deserves Tom Cruise megastardom; I'm happy he's starting to at least get good roles where he can just have his regular face.
 
BEAT

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
It's weird that andor kept going after what was very obviously a season finale.
 
Sarcasmorator

Sarcasmorator

Same as I ever was
(He/him)
I entirely disagree. Showing the aftermath and fallout of the raid is at least as important as the raid itself to what this show is about.
 
karzac

karzac

(he/him)
The show's been structured in 3 episode arcs, with episode 7 being a pivot between two of them. I think we've just become accustomed to the streaming TV idea that all the action of a TV season needs to be packed into the premier and the finally.
 
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BEAT

BEAT

LOUDSKULL
(DUDE/BRO)
WisteriaHysteria said:
Sure, but I think the whole point Beat is making is that a regular D+ show would have had that be Season 2...
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Yeah basically.

When I started shotgunning the show it was "dude goes to prison, Nazi is miserable and desk jobbed. And I was like "huh good season finale! Enjoyed it!"

And then I see a few days later that new episodes were up and I was like "wait there's more? But it just ended."
 
Phantoon

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
WisteriaHysteria said:
I'm not as high on the show as most of y'all, but it's almost predictable at this point to have Serkis in something and just really steal literally every single scene he's in, no matter what his character means to the plot or what he's doing. Dude deserves Tom Cruise megastardom; I'm happy he's starting to at least get good roles where he can just have his regular face.
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He'll never be a megastar because he's not easy on the eye like Tom Cruise. But as a character actor I think he has few equals, ever; he's frankly incredible in everything he's in. You could cast the bugger as a pebble and he'd be still be memorable somehow.

Andor continues to excel in its self chosen impossible remit; display totalitarianism without underselling its horror while still fitting in Star Wars. While on Disney, for maximum difficulty! What an achievement this thing is.
 
Johnny Unusual

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
Phantoon said:
He'll never be a megastar because he's not easy on the eye like Tom Cruise. But as a character actor I think he has few equals, ever; he's frankly incredible in everything he's in. You could cast the bugger as a pebble and he'd be still be memorable somehow.
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He's really good at the motion capture stuff but I'm glad he's being seen beyond that. He's always good (including The Adventures of Tintin, a film I think is really underrated and also shows he's a good co-lead).
 
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