Through the looking glass? Let's Play The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past!

No the old woman in town in Link to the Past. The one sweeping outside. Dust her and she turns into a bottle type fairy.

I treasured each and every letter delivered by that beautiful, beautiful man.

those scary clowns with the big cannon were the wrong kind of twisted, though.

Yes, and that was a lame-ass cop-out.

...I dunno. I see a corrupt Toon Link, and all I see is a mad dictator who doesn't actually speak, so he's reduced to yelling incomprehensible quips at his bemused subjects.

Then Tetra comes behind him and slaps him upside the head.

Im always pretty happy when there is a new Link game where he isnt saving Zelda from Ganon. Too bad those are usually relegated to portable systems now.


Also didnt there used to be a fan project to remake Ocarina of Time using Link to the Past graphics?

There ostensibly was, but the guy running it turned out to be a charlatan whose output never exceeded the occasional mock-up screenshot and a very basic demo of Link running around a grassy field with an Ocarina-style HUD.

However, there was a working demo of a Gameboy-ised OOT with Link's Awakening graphics. From what I remember it was fairly playable, but obviously suffered some issues with the 3D to 2D conversion. I'm not actually sure how much of the game it covered, as I couldn't get any further than the Gohma battle.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I like the "classic" feel of Zelda games. I can depend on them for spin-attacks, puzzle solving and princess saving. I really don't ask for much more out of them.

Yeah, but the intrigue was fun while it lasted.

Hmmm, now that's a game that could benefit from a re-translation.

i love the zelda universe. i just want them to develop it more.
give me the continuity i crave!

I really, really loved Twilight Princess' story up until the point where you find out [SPOILERZ?]that of course Ganon is the real boss of everything again. I mean, Zant was just the creepiest and most evil Zelda villain I've seen. Ganon just kidnaps Zelda repeatedly and most other villains just release monsters that can't even smash their way into some random old person's doorless hut or slip through an unguarded city gate.

Zant throws people around with telekinesis and makes honest attempts to kill them so his plans cannot be thwarted. He wins. The spoiler mentioned above combined with the whole OoT 1.5 thing is why I just can't really get behind the idea that TP is one of the best Zeldas; it could have been awesomely different, but it wasn't.

About the whole "TP eleventh hour villian switch-a-roo" thing...TP was basically an updated OoT. I think we can all agree on that. It had some new gadgets and waggle, but that's it. Otherwise it was OoT. And how can you have OoT without an epic encounter with Ganon? I think Nintendo just copped out and went with that to not upset the fanboys.

Either way, I'm just glad that Zelda games have (generally speaking) been moving beyond having just Ganon as a final boss. The Adventure of Link, the two Oracle games, Majora's Mask, Four Swords Adventures, and Phantom Hourglass all had non-Ganon final bosses, and TP had a non-Ganon main enemy for 90% of the game. I hope we see more of this in the future.

I don't hope to see any major changes in the Zelda formula, though. I love Zelda because it's the most dependable series in existence. It's constantly changing and innovating, but it's always outstanding. Some titles are better than others, to be sure. But each Zelda title is a superb example of how games should be made.

actually, to be completely honest? what i really want is a zelda novel that goes beyond the game (at least the first two). I think there's a fantastic story waiting to be told there, and i totally want to read it.

The question is, how do you turn a mute everyman pushing ice blocks and finding keys etc. into an epic novel?

The answer? Make it about Twilight Princess.

You forgot the fact that the plot is entirely different from anything in Ocarina until the point where they suddenly decide it shouldn't be.


You can't, of course. But Twilight Princess didn't have an epic encounter with Ganon. It had a painfully pandering swordfight with Ganondorf, and Ganon was demoted from "horrifying bestial demigod" to "pointless quadrupedal stop-gap."

This may be my love for OoT talking, but I don't think I agree. Beyond an update of the art style and a few knowing references, they don't share much beyond what is traditionally defined as Zelda. I mean, you could say the Wind Waker was just OoT with a much larger overworld and cel-shading, but does anyone consider it as such?

And you didn't even get to slam the Master sword into his forehead in an awesome ending blow! Though I guess that would have been really pandering...

Speaking of TP's plot, I was always kind of disappointed you never got to hand over the Ordon sword to Zelda. I mean, wasn't it made for the royal family? Maybe it could have made her actually be useful during the final battle.

It's not any particular thing I could point to and say "this makes them the same" but the whole time I played TP I just felt like it OoT with updated graphics and mechanics. OoT Zero Mission, if you will.

I meant Gannondorf. I just always call him Ganon since it's easier. I was referring more to the fact that Zant couldn't be the final boss in a game like TP, rather than what form of Ganon/dorf Link should fight. Like I said before, the game is an updated form of OoT. They pandered to fanboys and went with an ending sequence that was sure to please, rather than potentially upset some people and make Zant the final boss.

...plus, I thought it was pretty epic. The part on horseback was awesome.

Yes, the plot and general tone of the game are very different. It was a welcome change too. But like I said before, it seems to me that they just wanted to play it safe. Plus, given the improvements they made to the combat in TP, it seemed like they wanted to create the definitive Gannondorf/Link throw down and you can't do that with Zant as the final boss.

The entire time I was playing through TP, I just kept thinking that it felt like a bigger, better OoT. ...which isn't a bad thing in any way, shape, or form. But it all felt familiar. It's OoT with new art, an actual story, and some new trinkets. It took the framework of OoT and added some wolf stuff. There's nothing that really alters the fundamental gameplay in any way (except for maybe the enhanced combat system, but that's it).

I don't think you can say that for Wind Waker, even in a joking fashion. Similarly to Majora's Mask, the game wasn't focused on the main quest. The player is given a much bigger and more open world to experiment in. Sure, there is a certain path that each player must follow to get to the end...but there's also a ridiculous amount of time spent exploring uncharted islands and doing things for NPCs and doing other stuff that isn't related to the main quest.

Of course that's in TP/OoT too; it's a Zelda staple. But it seems like WW and MM had a greater focus on exploration and freedom whereas OoT and TP focused more on cinematic story telling and creating an engaging atmosphere.

I was just pointing out that that part of the game wasn't really true to Ocarina anyway; if it had been, you'd have a final battle against a huge, intimidating boar-man shrouded in darkness. Instead, if it were based on anything, it's the SpaceWorld 2000 demo, which first planted the seed of "OMFG Link + Ganondorf + swordfighting = AWESOME PUT IT IN THE NEXT GAME" (and later, "WHAT'S THIS CEL-DA CRAP WHERE'S OUR GRITTY SWORDFIGHT") in the minds of Zelda fans everywhere.

For me, it reeks too much of whenever Sephiroth pops up to swordfight to yet another arrangement of "One-Winged Angel" in any Compilation of FFVII product or Kingdom Hearts game. And Ganon is such a more interesting and potentially imposing foe than the 'Dorf anyway.

I want to run a theory by you lot, while we're waiting.

We more or less know that the Zelda chronology is some kind of split timeline, and that it's likely that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are on one side and the earlier Zelda games are on the other, with the Oracle games in there somewhere.

Considering the important role Zelda played in the last couple of games (excluding Phantom Hourglass, which might sink this theory) compared to her impotent role in the pre-Ocarina games, and her increased potency in the second half of Ocarina, it seems like we can say that in the later games the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom is more potent, and in the earlier games Courage is more potent. That is, that the 'split timelines' actually unbalanced Hyrule, and each alternate timestream puts one Triforce attribute above the others.

Which implies a third timestream, a Power timestream, in which Ganon won. Now that would be a heck of a Zelda game.

</fanwank>

I say that, except for the ones that are direct sequels (ie- Phantom Hourglass, Majora's Mask, Zelda 2 etc), none of the Zelda games are related.

It's a hell of a lot less confusing that way, and it doesn't result in people endless gushing about "Where this one fits in the time line" and whining about retcons.

The main problem I see with that is that the cause of the timeline split had nothing to do with the three pieces of the Triforce.

The timeline split when Link opened the path to the Sacred Realm for Ganondorf, creating a future where he ruled, which was later negated when Zelda sent Link back in time to before it ever happened and he refrained from doing it thereafter. This creates the "child" timeline, where the Sacred Realm remains closed and Ganondorf ends up waiting until later--after Link has departed from Hyrule (Majora's Mask)--to make his bid for power (Twilight Princess's backstory); and the "adult" timeline, where Ganondorf becomes the tyrant-king and is eventually sealed in the Sacred Realm by Link and the Seven Sages (A Link to the Past's backstory).

(And before Parish comes in here slinging his usual jive, this only used to be a crazy crackpot theory. Twilight Princess and Aonuma's own comments have confirmed it to be true.)

But it's far more fun this way!

Actually, the Triforce thing makes sense, given that Zelda sent the carrier of the Triforce of Courage back in time, resulting in Wind Waker's split. I have no idea about TP, though. That seemed to shoot it all up. I tend to ignore the Capcom games though- as awesome as they are, it screws things up even more than they already are.

The Oracle games are supposed to take place between ALttP and Link's Awakening (the very end of the secret ending makes it clear enough), but there are enough inconsistencies to make them best ignored in the grand scheme of things. (If this takes place after ALttP, why does Zelda seem to be meeting Link for the first time in her little cameo? Why is there suddenly an Impa for this era? And for that matter, why are all the NPCs carbon copies of characters from Ocarina and Majora's Mask? I get the theme of history repeating itself with all the Links and Zeldas, but recycling to this extent just infringes on the integrity of the setting.)

The Four Swords games, including The Minish Cap, clearly have their own little mythology going with Vaati and the Four Sword and the "Hero of Men," so they're a continuity unto themselves. Occam's Razor, son. (Four Swords Adventures managed to tie in Ganon, but his backstory was totally different from what we know it to be from ALttP and Ocarina and The Wind Waker, so it's still evidently a separate universe.)

Actually, The Minish Cap could be considered to be part of the "Main Zelda Continuity" if you think of it as taking place even before OoT, which explains why no Ganon(dorf). As for FSA, son, you're on your own. I personally don't think of that as a "real Zelda" kinda like the BS Sattaview (or whatever they were called) and The Forgotten Ones. It's more of an excuse to sell more GBA Link Cables, supposedly pretty fun, but I'm not messing around with the hardware needed.

Like I said, Occam's Razor. There's no reason to clutter up the main timeline trying to shoehorn in all the Four Sword games when they make no reference to the main games and the main games make no reference to them. They fit too neatly as their own separate thing.

I don't know about that. I think the Wind Waker Ganon was the best one yet, and it was also the most human Ganon. I don't think those two facts are unrelated.

I don't know if anyone suggested this(since I was catching up on just reading the gameplay parts of this thread), but does anything happen if you pick up the blue tunic after getting the red one? Do you get stuck with the weaker of the two if you get it last or does it know which one is better?

This sounds like a great experiment for Our Esteemed Host.

Hmm... now you've got me curious as well. All righty, I think I'll give it a shot then, see what happens.

But first, the final installment:



Before we head onto the final battle, I'm curious about this crack down here. What could be inside it? What made the crack in the first place? And why do I have this nagging feeling that I need to get inside of it?

Normal bombs don't seem to scratch it, so let's see if the Bomb Shop has anything of help.



Nope, nothing. Well I'm stumped. What do I do now?



According to this guy, we need to jump down the well outside of the smith's shop. I'm not so sure about the well part, but the smith sounds like a reliable fellow.



Too bad the guy's having some family issues. Well, you know what they say - if there's a problem to be solved, there's loot involved.

Now where could the other smith be? Hmm... Wait, hold on a minute. I think I remember something...



Aha! Found ya! Time to help him back to the light world.



Damn, it's only a sword upgrade. Oh well, at least we tried. Time to blow off some steam with a couple of mini-games.



*bangbangbangbangbangbang*

Ahh, that was fun. I wonder if the Bomb Shop has anything new in yet?