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Star Trek: Discovery - Disco isn't dead
- Thread starter SpoonyBard
- Start date
Almost the entirety of this week's episode was about trying to figure out how to talk to bizarre aliens and it was the most intensely Star Trek thing I've seen in forever. Man, Disco friggin' rules.
Is it the Arrival episode?
I dunno what that's in reference to, but this week's episode that went live today is called "Species Ten-C" so do with that what you may. Next week's episode will be the end of the season.
The season finale was incredible. Masterful writing job here. Season 4 in general is straight up a masterpiece. Also, love love love the Stacy Abrams cameo at the end. That's gonna piss off all the right people and I'm here for it. Can't wait to see what's in store for Season 5. What a marvelous time for Star Trek!
Yeah that was just fantastic. Loved every minute. I did guess that the 10-C had probably intercepted Book’s pattern buffer to deus ex his death, but that’s fine, happy to have him still around and his closure speech with them was great. Does look like he’s set up to not be main cast for next season, but he got a lot to chew on during this one and he’s around whenever they want him. Speaking of, great to finally see more Tilley, wonder if she’ll be coming back in any greater capacity.
So I had a bit of down-time on the couch recently and randomly put on Wil Wheaton's Ready Room interviews for Discovery S4 and oh my goooooood everyone on this show is so wonderful and awesome and I love them all and want to take them all home with me. Hands-down the most wholesome hype show I've ever seen.
David Ajala has this weird thing where he says the full names of Michael Burnham and Cleveland Booker *every* single time he mentions the characters, which is a lot. Maybe it comes from them being written out that way in the script prompts? Or maybe he's just very British.
Anyway, surprisingly good and watchable for an interview/clip-show.
Also makes me kinda with I'd had a chance to say more than two words to Wil the time I met him in person, but he was on vacation with his family and I didn't want to bother him too much.
David Ajala has this weird thing where he says the full names of Michael Burnham and Cleveland Booker *every* single time he mentions the characters, which is a lot. Maybe it comes from them being written out that way in the script prompts? Or maybe he's just very British.
Anyway, surprisingly good and watchable for an interview/clip-show.
Also makes me kinda with I'd had a chance to say more than two words to Wil the time I met him in person, but he was on vacation with his family and I didn't want to bother him too much.
Welp might need to change the thread title?
Season 5 will be the last. Which is a shame, after a rocky start it eventually found it's footing and season 4 was damned good. Hope it goes out witb a bang at least.
Season 5 will be the last. Which is a shame, after a rocky start it eventually found it's footing and season 4 was damned good. Hope it goes out witb a bang at least.
I thought this might be a possibility, but didn't necessarily think they'd jump to make it happen this quickly. That's a bummer. And it obviously calls into question the health and viability of the franchise/parent corporation. NuTrek isn't going to go away, but I'm not confident we'll be getting any replacement shows for this, or if this will be the only cancellation.
Reportedly, they're almost done with filming for S5 anyways, and they ordered more filming to create a wrap up for the franchise. So it'll be interesting to see how that happens. And a little ironic that Disco is going out the way it came in: with a hastily slapped together addendum to the season. I'm hoping they get enough budget and screen time to make like a Disco movie, rather than a sentimental montage or something short.
Reportedly, they're almost done with filming for S5 anyways, and they ordered more filming to create a wrap up for the franchise. So it'll be interesting to see how that happens. And a little ironic that Disco is going out the way it came in: with a hastily slapped together addendum to the season. I'm hoping they get enough budget and screen time to make like a Disco movie, rather than a sentimental montage or something short.
I think with all of the cost cutting happening across a lot of streaming outlets, this news doesn't come as too much of a shock, even though it's still disappointing. The need for reshoots to craft a conclusion means the showrunners obviously weren't originally planning for this to be the end, but I'm grateful they're getting the opportunity.
As for the health of Star Trek as a brand, Paramount has thrown an absolute megaton of cash at Alex Kurtzman to steer the franchise, so i don't think there's a question about the commitment to the brand. If anything, I think new shows are kind of what took Discovery out. Strange New Worlds immediately took the crown in the Star Trek lineup, and Lower Decks is up there and a hell of a lot cheaper to produce.
I haven't found a news story that states this, but I saw a comment that noted that the Disco cast probably signed a five year contract at the start, and that's always been a major break point in the television industry. Re-upping a TV contract usually means a significant salary bump, multiplied across the entire cast. Contracts are the death of many a show or character (for example: Terry Farrell had a six year contract and then Berman screwed her over in negotiations).
So, newer shows (that happen to be cheaper than S6 of Discovery) are probably the future of Trek. There's been that long rumored Star Trek Academy show, which would presumably have a majority younger, cheaper cast. And S3 of Picard feels like it wants to be the backdoor pilot for another show in the same way that S2 of Discovery bore Strange New Worlds.
As for the health of Star Trek as a brand, Paramount has thrown an absolute megaton of cash at Alex Kurtzman to steer the franchise, so i don't think there's a question about the commitment to the brand. If anything, I think new shows are kind of what took Discovery out. Strange New Worlds immediately took the crown in the Star Trek lineup, and Lower Decks is up there and a hell of a lot cheaper to produce.
I haven't found a news story that states this, but I saw a comment that noted that the Disco cast probably signed a five year contract at the start, and that's always been a major break point in the television industry. Re-upping a TV contract usually means a significant salary bump, multiplied across the entire cast. Contracts are the death of many a show or character (for example: Terry Farrell had a six year contract and then Berman screwed her over in negotiations).
So, newer shows (that happen to be cheaper than S6 of Discovery) are probably the future of Trek. There's been that long rumored Star Trek Academy show, which would presumably have a majority younger, cheaper cast. And S3 of Picard feels like it wants to be the backdoor pilot for another show in the same way that S2 of Discovery bore Strange New Worlds.
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Sprite
(He/Him/His)
Oh oof, I didn’t realize the showrunners didn’t know the end was coming. That suuuucks.
Here’s hoping it’s just clearing the slate for another show and this isn’t the canary in the coal mine. I don’t think Trek is going anywhere but I also don’t expect this glut to continue too much longer.
Here’s hoping it’s just clearing the slate for another show and this isn’t the canary in the coal mine. I don’t think Trek is going anywhere but I also don’t expect this glut to continue too much longer.
I just think that's how fans and people are, for better or worse. Very reactionary, default conservative mindset, suspicious of change, etc. It takes conscious thought fight against our human nature, and most people don't approach their entertainment in that manner.
I've been listening to interviews from the TNG crew for PIC, and it's something I knew happened, but it's striking to hear them talk about how much backlash there was from the fandom for the first season or two. They were pretty understanding of it and forgiving, especially since they won everyone over eventually. But they just felt bewildered that they could go from the reject pretender crew, to today where fans see them as the quintessential, franchise defining OGs, supplanting TOS.
Pretty much every new Star Trek has had that kind of reaction, and it takes years, potentially even decades, for a consensus to shift away from bad to actually pretty good. The only exception to this rule has been SNW, which has also been the first Star Trek to, as a conscious decision, make replicating old Star Trek its raison d'etre versus trying to be something new/differentiated from the rest of the franchise.
I just hope we won't have to wait decades for fans to more broadly discover that actually, DIS was pretty good, and for the consensus to shift on the show like DS9 and ENT had to wait to receive its due recognition.
Can't say I'm surprised at all that season 5 will be DISCO's last. Personally speaking I couldn't see alotta' what they could do with the current main arc that isn't slowly restoring the status quo of roughly the same era they escaped hundreds of years before. They've put a lot of effort in the character stories of Seasons 3 and 4, I'll quickly grant them. Looking back I enjoyed the first and second seasons, then slowly fell off from there. It's nice to hear others who've appreciated what's lost on me.
I wrote this show off after season 1 because stylistically I felt it was pretty repelling (sooo many dutch angles my god) and in general I didn't care much for the plot of the season either. I don't know if I feel like giving it another chance to keep watching past that even knowing about the changes it goes through...
I'd still say try to give season 2 a shot, since it is so different tonally from season 1. I mean, even season 1 is all over the map because of the behind-the-scenes changes. If you get to the season finale, then you'll be like "I have to see where this goes next".
I think everyone expects shows to be fully formed today, WYSIWYG, it's either good or it's bad. But look at how much TNG had to find itself over the course of its first two seasons. Television shows don't often get the chance to grow like that anymore, so it's kind of amazing that Discovery managed to do it, and leading the charge for a new generation of Trek shows. Sure, SNW gets a lot of credit for going back to "the old formula" but I'd still say that a lot of what they did there was also informed by Discovery's evolution.
Honestly Yangus, if you were "repelled" from watching more of the show simply because of the way it looks, and the kind of story S1 was telling, I don't know if watching the rest of the show will really change your mind.
Discovery has changed quite a lot between Seasons 1 through 4. There was a fair amount of stylistic changes regarding less dutch angles/lens flares, less cursing and general violence, more ship-porn, continual realignment of the supporting cast around what worked and what didn't, shifting the story towards feeling a little more episodic in nature (but never jettisoning the serialized nature of the show's overarching plot lines; think Enterprise S3), etc, etc. But at the end of the day, Discovery still remained steadfast to being three things:
1) A "cinematic experience" at home: For better worse. (I think better most of the time, but that's always going to be a ymmv decision.) I think Discovery, and most cinematic experiences in general, works best when you can put it on as big of a screen as possible that fills as much of your field of view as possible. Some stuff just looks goofy when you shrink it down in size, but when it's taking up your whole field of vision it looks cool. When I watch Discovery (and nuTrek in general) I'm seated about 2ft away from a 55" screen, so everything looks incredible to me. Even the dutch angles lol. I've posted this clip a few times, and it's HUGE spoilers for S2, but man is this some of the coolest, most cinematic stuff ever done in the franchise:
2) The "Michael Burnham Show": A lot of Star Trek fans grew up on TNG and expect/insist that Star Trek ought to be an ensemble show, focused narrowly on the "bridge crew". I think that's an extremely limited, illogical, and myopic perspective, but it is what it is. Discovery has a supporting cast (that I think are awesome), but it was never and will never be a show about a traditional bridge crew. Discovery was a show concerned first and foremost with a main character and her personal journey. To me, the Klingon War and Mirror Universe overarching stories in Season 1 was kind of whatever. We've seen these kinds of stories before, this permutation of them wasn't bad but they weren't great either. What was interesting (at least to myself) was Michael's personal journey through it all. "Star Trek: Discovery" is called what it is, in large part because the show focuses on the personal discovery that Michael experiences as she figures out who she is as a person, what is important to her, and what she wants to be. If you like Sonequa Martin-Green and can buy into her acting, there's a really fulfilling and compelling character development arc that has steadily grown from S1 on through S4. If you can't be convinced to care about her or her journey, then the odds are already stacked against you enjoying the show.
3) The reaffirmation of hope in the face of despair: Every season has had this as its primary theme. From the big overarching storylines, to small character moments. Discovery is very much a show that - having launched in 2017 - was informed by and a firm rebukement of the post-Trump world we find ourselves having to navigate in. That even when things seem like they're at their worst, or when you're facing a situation that seems hopeless/impossible, or when our ability to even communicate with one another seems compromised because we don't even appear to experience the same reality anymore. Holding onto hope, remaining steadfast in our morals rather than compromising them, never giving up on compassion and understanding as essential tools for forwards progress, and maintaining our own identities/being the authors of our own narratives instead of letting the times or our enemies define us, Discovery beats these drums in a way that I found to be earnest and authentic. The way S1 approached this message was very hamfisted. S2 spent most of its energy modeling how grace and composure ought to look as a contrast to the lack of such in S1. S3 and 4 I thought nailed these ideas superbly.
If a show oriented around these three concepts doesn't sound interesting to you versus a more modular, classical Star Trek experience, I think that's fine. The great thing about nuTrek is that there's flavors for everyone. And it's ok to just pick the ones you like, you don't have to force yourself to watch them all.
Discovery has changed quite a lot between Seasons 1 through 4. There was a fair amount of stylistic changes regarding less dutch angles/lens flares, less cursing and general violence, more ship-porn, continual realignment of the supporting cast around what worked and what didn't, shifting the story towards feeling a little more episodic in nature (but never jettisoning the serialized nature of the show's overarching plot lines; think Enterprise S3), etc, etc. But at the end of the day, Discovery still remained steadfast to being three things:
1) A "cinematic experience" at home: For better worse. (I think better most of the time, but that's always going to be a ymmv decision.) I think Discovery, and most cinematic experiences in general, works best when you can put it on as big of a screen as possible that fills as much of your field of view as possible. Some stuff just looks goofy when you shrink it down in size, but when it's taking up your whole field of vision it looks cool. When I watch Discovery (and nuTrek in general) I'm seated about 2ft away from a 55" screen, so everything looks incredible to me. Even the dutch angles lol. I've posted this clip a few times, and it's HUGE spoilers for S2, but man is this some of the coolest, most cinematic stuff ever done in the franchise:
2) The "Michael Burnham Show": A lot of Star Trek fans grew up on TNG and expect/insist that Star Trek ought to be an ensemble show, focused narrowly on the "bridge crew". I think that's an extremely limited, illogical, and myopic perspective, but it is what it is. Discovery has a supporting cast (that I think are awesome), but it was never and will never be a show about a traditional bridge crew. Discovery was a show concerned first and foremost with a main character and her personal journey. To me, the Klingon War and Mirror Universe overarching stories in Season 1 was kind of whatever. We've seen these kinds of stories before, this permutation of them wasn't bad but they weren't great either. What was interesting (at least to myself) was Michael's personal journey through it all. "Star Trek: Discovery" is called what it is, in large part because the show focuses on the personal discovery that Michael experiences as she figures out who she is as a person, what is important to her, and what she wants to be. If you like Sonequa Martin-Green and can buy into her acting, there's a really fulfilling and compelling character development arc that has steadily grown from S1 on through S4. If you can't be convinced to care about her or her journey, then the odds are already stacked against you enjoying the show.
3) The reaffirmation of hope in the face of despair: Every season has had this as its primary theme. From the big overarching storylines, to small character moments. Discovery is very much a show that - having launched in 2017 - was informed by and a firm rebukement of the post-Trump world we find ourselves having to navigate in. That even when things seem like they're at their worst, or when you're facing a situation that seems hopeless/impossible, or when our ability to even communicate with one another seems compromised because we don't even appear to experience the same reality anymore. Holding onto hope, remaining steadfast in our morals rather than compromising them, never giving up on compassion and understanding as essential tools for forwards progress, and maintaining our own identities/being the authors of our own narratives instead of letting the times or our enemies define us, Discovery beats these drums in a way that I found to be earnest and authentic. The way S1 approached this message was very hamfisted. S2 spent most of its energy modeling how grace and composure ought to look as a contrast to the lack of such in S1. S3 and 4 I thought nailed these ideas superbly.
If a show oriented around these three concepts doesn't sound interesting to you versus a more modular, classical Star Trek experience, I think that's fine. The great thing about nuTrek is that there's flavors for everyone. And it's ok to just pick the ones you like, you don't have to force yourself to watch them all.
I (or someone) should probably post this in the general thread as well. But it seems mostly Disco-adjacent to me:
So there it is. We're getting our 32nd Century Starfleet Academy spin-off. Production is going to begin in 2024. Reading between the lines this is probably part of why Discovery got cancelled. I read some scuttlebut (Here? Elsewhere? I forget) that ending Disco at S5 was probably mostly about contracts. Sonequa, and a lot of TV shows in general, structure their initial contracts around a 5 year plan. Most actors would expect a raise after 5 years, so if your show is going to continue past that, it should probably be performing so well that you can justify big raises for everyone involved. Disco has done well for P+, but probably not so well that they wouldn't be better served by ending it there, and then moving into a spin-off instead where they could roll the dice once more in search of a bigger hit. That they're keeping the 32nd Century setting tells me they believe in what they've got going on there, and/or are going to keep the price of production in control by reusing assets/sets/props/costumes.
On a side note:
-Reports of the death of Star Trek turned out to be greatly exaggerated. Along with this, P+ announced a week or so ago that SNW and Lower Decks were getting renewed for an additional season - and are already in production all well before their next seasons even air. Kurtzman at the same time also strongly insisted that a Michelle Yeoh vehicle was still in the works, and that we can look forward to character-focused mini-series and films in the future as well. So instead of this Era of Trek ending prematurely, it seems now more like it's thriving and expanding.
-I'm really curious what's even gonna happen on First Contact Day. That's less than a week away at this point, but they're already dropping big news like this. So either we aren't going to have a First Contact Day at all, or they're saving the megatons for then.
So there it is. We're getting our 32nd Century Starfleet Academy spin-off. Production is going to begin in 2024. Reading between the lines this is probably part of why Discovery got cancelled. I read some scuttlebut (Here? Elsewhere? I forget) that ending Disco at S5 was probably mostly about contracts. Sonequa, and a lot of TV shows in general, structure their initial contracts around a 5 year plan. Most actors would expect a raise after 5 years, so if your show is going to continue past that, it should probably be performing so well that you can justify big raises for everyone involved. Disco has done well for P+, but probably not so well that they wouldn't be better served by ending it there, and then moving into a spin-off instead where they could roll the dice once more in search of a bigger hit. That they're keeping the 32nd Century setting tells me they believe in what they've got going on there, and/or are going to keep the price of production in control by reusing assets/sets/props/costumes.
On a side note:
-Reports of the death of Star Trek turned out to be greatly exaggerated. Along with this, P+ announced a week or so ago that SNW and Lower Decks were getting renewed for an additional season - and are already in production all well before their next seasons even air. Kurtzman at the same time also strongly insisted that a Michelle Yeoh vehicle was still in the works, and that we can look forward to character-focused mini-series and films in the future as well. So instead of this Era of Trek ending prematurely, it seems now more like it's thriving and expanding.
-I'm really curious what's even gonna happen on First Contact Day. That's less than a week away at this point, but they're already dropping big news like this. So either we aren't going to have a First Contact Day at all, or they're saving the megatons for then.
First two episodes of Season 5 aired last night. I've seen the first one so far. Good opening, and it ended with an unexpected and fun callback to that one TNG episode that dealt with the origin of all humanoid races in the galaxy.
But more importantly we finally see a new Soong android not played by Brent Spiner!
Also Tilly is back, I'm not sure if she's a permanent cast member for the season or only present in a limited capacity, guess we'll see.
But more importantly we finally see a new Soong android not played by Brent Spiner!
Also Tilly is back, I'm not sure if she's a permanent cast member for the season or only present in a limited capacity, guess we'll see.
Who dies immediately! Oh well.
Tilly is in full effect for Ep 2 and it looks like she may stay for the duration, which is excellent.
Also getting a lot of David Cronenberg this season which is always fun.
I swear the symbol in the diary that's circles with some squiggly lines dividing them looks super familiar, but by the end of the second episode it appears it's just a template for a five-piece macguffin puzzle so maybe I'm just imagining it?
It's just a pretty common type of image that's all. Basically you just make concentric circles, then connect the circles with random perpendicular lines, and erase some of the circles edges between the lines. The Cardassian visual motifs for their computers used to have junk like that in the past, among lots of other stuff.