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SaGa Frontier Remastered
- Thread starter YangusKhan
- Start date
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- Tags
- kawazu saga square square enix
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
i think maybe it was in the ps1 version and this one of the fights towards the end of his quest that adjusted in the remaster?
nosimpleway
(he/him)
I've only played the original and that's the strat I used.
Man, nothing I've heard about Riki's quest has me looking forward to it.
I've been taking a bit of a break since beating Emilia's quest (I didn't get the good ending, because of course there's a counterintuitive choice you have to avoid despite its being straightforward enough that it doesn't even appear to be something that you can not make), and I'm not sure who to jump in to next. I'm thinking Asellus or Red.
Maybe I'll build Riki and/or some other monsters up at the end of some other run and use him to blow through his scenario on NG+. Actually look up how to get good monster forms and farm for them or something. Between that and throwing NG+ gear on some robots it should alleviate a lot of the annoyance. I hope?
And then there's Lute. What do I even do with Lute?
I've been taking a bit of a break since beating Emilia's quest (I didn't get the good ending, because of course there's a counterintuitive choice you have to avoid despite its being straightforward enough that it doesn't even appear to be something that you can not make), and I'm not sure who to jump in to next. I'm thinking Asellus or Red.
Maybe I'll build Riki and/or some other monsters up at the end of some other run and use him to blow through his scenario on NG+. Actually look up how to get good monster forms and farm for them or something. Between that and throwing NG+ gear on some robots it should alleviate a lot of the annoyance. I hope?
And then there's Lute. What do I even do with Lute?
Among a cast where every story is a treat in its own way, I think Riki's is one of the best in most ways that I care about: delightful protagonist and a distinct voice in how they view the shared world; structural scenario amalgam that by necessity takes the player through many of the game's locales but also allows them to dictate the order along the way according to their interests; a climax that integrates novelty in game design already inherent to monsters into the very methods that are now asked of the player in the literalized final tests assigned by a capricious and fickle taskmaster, tying a sequence that in isolation feels punitive and arbitrary really aptly together as an encapsulation of the narrative expressed through both text and game mechanics up to that point. Even the final boss is more inspired than the other single-target counterparts tend to be.
Fyonn
did their best!
The big thing about monsters is that every time they learn a new ability, they get more base HP, so you don't want to worry about getting an endgame form until the endgame. That said, if you want to metagame it, holding onto Fang and Tail will get you one endgame ability away from one of the best forms in the game.
Also, counterintuitively, they make the best healers in the game thanks to some moves they can get.
The other thing about monsters is that they don't need any equipment, and endgame forms can hit 80-99 in stats very easily, so that frees you up to arm your other characters to the teeth.
And most of Riki's scenario is fine. It just has a couple of bits that are speedbumps. Just knowing they exist does a lot to help get through them.
Also, counterintuitively, they make the best healers in the game thanks to some moves they can get.
The other thing about monsters is that they don't need any equipment, and endgame forms can hit 80-99 in stats very easily, so that frees you up to arm your other characters to the teeth.
And most of Riki's scenario is fine. It just has a couple of bits that are speedbumps. Just knowing they exist does a lot to help get through them.
nosimpleway
(he/him)
When I did my Riki LP run with a full-monster party, I had Kylin in the group and he threw down his daylight spell to power the Photosynthesis passive I had on everyone. Never had to worry about healing. Actual combat was easy, it was the scenario itself that hurts.
riki's scenario has some especially rude parts but they're all basically at the end. earlier on i think it's actually a lot more easygoing than most other scenarios since a lot of the hard bosses you would randomly run into otherwise either aren't really fought or are replaced with different ones. and i'm sure you can mitigate a lot of it in remaster either way by having a buff gen and/or lute to ng+ onto the file, even more so because riki's access to really high-attack swords that most other characters can get is extremely low
i actually think the rings are one of the most powerful character-unique mechanics in the game, maybe even *the* most overall. i think they'd even be gamebreaking in some of the other stories, but the way the game is designed they're really only fully useful against the last boss...
still, hide effect is unbelievably powerful, and as destil says, basically buys you 1-2 full free turns in that one battle depending on how exactly the speeds line up. that doesn't solve everything but it can definitely make the difference.
i actually think the rings are one of the most powerful character-unique mechanics in the game, maybe even *the* most overall. i think they'd even be gamebreaking in some of the other stories, but the way the game is designed they're really only fully useful against the last boss...
still, hide effect is unbelievably powerful, and as destil says, basically buys you 1-2 full free turns in that one battle depending on how exactly the speeds line up. that doesn't solve everything but it can definitely make the difference.
The difficulty curve in Riki's scenario is pretty wild in general. Caballero can be tough, and Tanzer is brutal unless you grind a bunch or get a lucky absorb, but past that, it's pretty easy... until you get to Virgil's palace, the hardest final dungeon by far. You're also pretty limited in what you can do outside of the ring events. Can't get the rune gift, can get light and shadow gifts for your humans and mystics but can't enter the associated dungeons, can't do the time magic quest or go to Facinaturu at all.
The scenario itself is great, though. The ring events are some of the coolest parts of the game, and Riki is indeed a great protagonist. Delightful is right. I think his conversation with Sei was my favorite, and learning what's up with Mei-ling and Fei-on was nice too. Even though some of them are annoying, the challenge rooms are at least unique and thematically appropriate, and to be honest, most of them are fun. Riki's quest definitely had a lot of work put into it, maybe the most of all of them.
But it is frustrating to play for the first time. I had a lot more fun revisiting it in this version than I did playing it in the original. It also helps that the monster skill UI is so much better now; like a lot of people, I used to think monsters were the least useful PC race, but now I think they're pretty great.
The scenario itself is great, though. The ring events are some of the coolest parts of the game, and Riki is indeed a great protagonist. Delightful is right. I think his conversation with Sei was my favorite, and learning what's up with Mei-ling and Fei-on was nice too. Even though some of them are annoying, the challenge rooms are at least unique and thematically appropriate, and to be honest, most of them are fun. Riki's quest definitely had a lot of work put into it, maybe the most of all of them.
But it is frustrating to play for the first time. I had a lot more fun revisiting it in this version than I did playing it in the original. It also helps that the monster skill UI is so much better now; like a lot of people, I used to think monsters were the least useful PC race, but now I think they're pretty great.
Thanks both of you for the advice! Learning about guns made me curious, and now I've turned Fuse and Emilia into gunners.
I beat the damned creatures, then went on to defeat the boss of the dungeon on my second try — It only took three turns!
The final boss was surprisingly easy, as my NG+ characters are now absurdly overpowered. Currently playing Fuse/Lute; next up is Red.
nosimpleway
(he/him)
Yeah, after that absolutely brutal final dungeon Riki's final boss is kind of a pushover. Especially if you knew not to take Mei-Ling. Doubly especially if you went "well, monsters can only equip accessories, guess I'll give everybody the one that makes them immune to Gaze attacks and the one that makes them immune to sonic-elemental attacks" and you just ignore half the things the final boss mob throws at you.
Finished Asellus' scenario. The added content helps a lot, giving context to two dungeons that served no purpose in the original beyond being places to grind and grab loot, and letting you recruit every mystic. The quest log also helps to make it clear what you need to do to advance, at least in a general sense. This was a scenario I liked a lot in concept but had trouble enjoying in the original, but this time it was great.
I wanted the human ending because I had never seen it (couldn't resist making Asellus super overpowered with absorbs when I played before), but on my first run through the final dungeon I forgot to go back and actually save Gina after killing the giant, so I got the unique combination of not having to fight Rastaban but still getting the half-mystic ending. Then I went back and did it the right way. I wasn't expecting to like the human ending that much, but it was actually really sweet. All the mystics showing up to talk about Asellus echoes the way Orlouge's subjects talked about him in his intro scene, and the photo montage tells a story all by itself. One of the last pictures shows her hanging out with two girls who look like they might be Rei and a reincarnated Princess Lion, but I'm not sure?
I wanted the human ending because I had never seen it (couldn't resist making Asellus super overpowered with absorbs when I played before), but on my first run through the final dungeon I forgot to go back and actually save Gina after killing the giant, so I got the unique combination of not having to fight Rastaban but still getting the half-mystic ending. Then I went back and did it the right way. I wasn't expecting to like the human ending that much, but it was actually really sweet. All the mystics showing up to talk about Asellus echoes the way Orlouge's subjects talked about him in his intro scene, and the photo montage tells a story all by itself. One of the last pictures shows her hanging out with two girls who look like they might be Rei and a reincarnated Princess Lion, but I'm not sure?
Fyonn
did their best!
I have discovered that this is not a game I am capable of playing under the influence.
nosimpleway
(he/him)
The Frillneck looks pretty surprised that happened
Been playing some SaGa Frontier Remastered again. Little bit of Red and Blue. One big thing that continues to impress me on replay is how the game does a lot with a little.
A few observations.
1) Towns and cities are not specifically tailor made for you, the player. Manhattan is a futuristic sky city with a shopping mall. In any other game, said mall would have loads of stores to buy all the adventuring essentials; in SaGa Frontier, the only points of interest are a jewelry shop selling accessories and a restaurant that only serves as a meet-up place.
Devin is where you'll go to buy your Arcane and Rune magic and where you'll initiate two of the longest sidequests in the game. It also has an extremely diverse range of fortune telling scams presumably designed to make money off of tourists (not that you pay them).
Baccarat has an enormous casino and floors upon floors of hotel rooms. You are not here to play gambling mini games, you are here to pursue a gnome in the catacombs.
Owmi is a port town that has a mansion with a monster-infested basement, an inn, and the one port that goes to Nelson. Nelson is a port that has a gold ingot seller at its pub and a shop that sells one sword and one suit of armor and nothing else.
Yorkland has no shops at all, it's just a place where people live and brew sake. Outside of recruiting an ogre and drunkenly staggering through the kraken-infested swamp searching for a card there is nothing to do. Don't bother visiting Lute's mom, she'll just glare at you and throw you out. You are a mysterious stranger invading her privacy.
These and other locations may be more or less relevant depending on whose quest you're playing but having locations not just have the requisite weapons/armor/item/magic shops does an effective job of making SaGa Frontier feel a little more like a living world than a game's interpretation of one.
On the subject of shops...
2) Shops have very specific specialties. You don't just go to the weapons or armor store in SaGa Frontier; Koorong is the prime example of how shops work in the game. One person sells helmets, another sells boots, yet another sells armor, and one buys leather. Dive down the manhole out of the sight of any authorities for the robots that sell swords and guns. If you want the really good stuff, you're gonna have to dive deeper into the back alleys.
Repair kits? No, the medicine guy does not sell those, you want Nakajima Robotics over in Shrike. Or maybe try your luck with the junk shop in Scrap.
Speaking of junk...
3) You can only sell things to a dedicated buyer for them and they only accept a specific list of things. The junk shop in Scrap only accepts repair kits for fixing junk and some of the rarest pieces of heavy equipment. Nakajima Robotics accepts low tier swords, probably to melt down for the metal to build parts with. Koorong has a leather buyer and a gold ingot buyer.
There are loads and loads of different items in the game but you can only ever sell a select few of them. People won't just buy whatever junk you're carrying, the world doesn't work that way.
4) There is a sense of distance for locations even though there is no world map. Koorong serves as a main hub for most of the game world. It has two pages worth of locations.
The first page is generally locations that can be travelled to or from one another at their ports, presumably 'cuz they're all close to one another. In contrast, the second page is specialty locations, ones that generally only go to or from Koorong with the notable exception of Owmi connecting to Nelson.
And Junk isn't even an option, which likely says a lot about its position in the world. That trip to Scrap is one-way.
Anyway, I find this kinda stuff really fascinating.
A few observations.
1) Towns and cities are not specifically tailor made for you, the player. Manhattan is a futuristic sky city with a shopping mall. In any other game, said mall would have loads of stores to buy all the adventuring essentials; in SaGa Frontier, the only points of interest are a jewelry shop selling accessories and a restaurant that only serves as a meet-up place.
Devin is where you'll go to buy your Arcane and Rune magic and where you'll initiate two of the longest sidequests in the game. It also has an extremely diverse range of fortune telling scams presumably designed to make money off of tourists (not that you pay them).
Baccarat has an enormous casino and floors upon floors of hotel rooms. You are not here to play gambling mini games, you are here to pursue a gnome in the catacombs.
Owmi is a port town that has a mansion with a monster-infested basement, an inn, and the one port that goes to Nelson. Nelson is a port that has a gold ingot seller at its pub and a shop that sells one sword and one suit of armor and nothing else.
Yorkland has no shops at all, it's just a place where people live and brew sake. Outside of recruiting an ogre and drunkenly staggering through the kraken-infested swamp searching for a card there is nothing to do. Don't bother visiting Lute's mom, she'll just glare at you and throw you out. You are a mysterious stranger invading her privacy.
These and other locations may be more or less relevant depending on whose quest you're playing but having locations not just have the requisite weapons/armor/item/magic shops does an effective job of making SaGa Frontier feel a little more like a living world than a game's interpretation of one.
On the subject of shops...
2) Shops have very specific specialties. You don't just go to the weapons or armor store in SaGa Frontier; Koorong is the prime example of how shops work in the game. One person sells helmets, another sells boots, yet another sells armor, and one buys leather. Dive down the manhole out of the sight of any authorities for the robots that sell swords and guns. If you want the really good stuff, you're gonna have to dive deeper into the back alleys.
Repair kits? No, the medicine guy does not sell those, you want Nakajima Robotics over in Shrike. Or maybe try your luck with the junk shop in Scrap.
Speaking of junk...
3) You can only sell things to a dedicated buyer for them and they only accept a specific list of things. The junk shop in Scrap only accepts repair kits for fixing junk and some of the rarest pieces of heavy equipment. Nakajima Robotics accepts low tier swords, probably to melt down for the metal to build parts with. Koorong has a leather buyer and a gold ingot buyer.
There are loads and loads of different items in the game but you can only ever sell a select few of them. People won't just buy whatever junk you're carrying, the world doesn't work that way.
4) There is a sense of distance for locations even though there is no world map. Koorong serves as a main hub for most of the game world. It has two pages worth of locations.
The first page is generally locations that can be travelled to or from one another at their ports, presumably 'cuz they're all close to one another. In contrast, the second page is specialty locations, ones that generally only go to or from Koorong with the notable exception of Owmi connecting to Nelson.
And Junk isn't even an option, which likely says a lot about its position in the world. That trip to Scrap is one-way.
Anyway, I find this kinda stuff really fascinating.
Tried this for the first time recently. Whoah, Emelia’s quest is very disjointed. First you’re a prisoner, then a wife, then a spy. All the areas are mazes. Is this typical of the others quests?
In short:
Yes, it rocks.
Longer:
The characters with plot-heavy quests tend to move very, very quickly like this, instead of having a slow build. Most of these are like 5-10 hour long mini-JRPGs that pack a full narrative into a very short playtime. However, many characters don't have plot heavy quests, so you're doing even more disparate things but with no narrative link at all. Does this make them more or less disjointed? I'm not sure. Emelia's is arguably the most disjointed, because it's a pastiche of various women's pulp fiction, and there is an emphasis on disguises/costumes which is a unique mechanic for her quest. She also has the most mazey areas, if I recall. But basically all of them involve sudden leaps in narrative logic, where you have to do some work filling in the gaps with your imagination. That's part of why I love the game, but it definitely doesn't flow in the way a modern narrative JRPG does, or even in the way many of its contemporaries did.
yeah, the style and nature of the stories varies a lot but none of them are quite like anything in a non-saga jrpg i've played. t260g and red (to a slightly lesser extent) are the most linear and "normal" stories, though they retain a similar kind of genre pastiche feeling without a ton of exposition or buildup.
i would say that emelia's last boss is more abrupt than any of the other stories, though. even lute's quest (which famously doesn't have any direction for "what you should do"-there's just a character out in the world who will take you to the final dungeon when you ask, once you've found them-and has maybe 5 minutes of scenes at most) has more explanation for what the boss is and where it came from, haha
i would say that emelia's last boss is more abrupt than any of the other stories, though. even lute's quest (which famously doesn't have any direction for "what you should do"-there's just a character out in the world who will take you to the final dungeon when you ask, once you've found them-and has maybe 5 minutes of scenes at most) has more explanation for what the boss is and where it came from, haha