Rumour that PS3/PSP/Vita store is to permanently close

[MetManMas]

we're all carrying around phones that are more expensive than gaming consoles, and those are *actually* designed to have artificially short lifespans, yet we all keep buying them. I'd love it if the hard-to-replace battery on my stupidly expensive cellphone lasted a decade before needing to be replaced, or if my phone could survive over two years without firmware updates crippling my phone's performance (if you're lucky to even get firmware updates and your hardware hasn't been orphaned after a year by the manufacturer).

I really hate how the mobile industry treats these phones as disposable. I'm in a life position where I can't upgrade every few years and it annoys me to no end when a formerly adequate phone, tablet, or computer becomes a slow piece of junk that can barely handle basic functions.

Thankfully that hasn't happened to my LG Stylo 4 yet (I'm using it to type this post now) but I know it's only a matter of time before it gets left behind like the ol' RCA tablets my mom got on the cheap in 2017 did. There's already mobile games I can't play on it 'cuz it isn't powerful enough.

 

[Regulus]

How likely is it for the CMOS to die before any other given bit of its innards? I'm pretty sure these consoles already have a (comparatively) short shelf life relative to older machines. I'm technically on my 4th PS3.

Also, doesn't the PS3 have this same issue? I don't know if you guys remember the "ApocalyPS3" bug back in 2010 that killed non-slim PS3 models for 24 hours because the internal clock thought it was Feb 29 in a non-leap year.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Nah, that's nonsense. The CMOS doesn't need to be cooled and

No, you don't get it. The CMOS doesn't need to be cooled, but the CPU and GPU both desperately need to, which is where all the massive cooling apparatuses come into play. The entire chassis and interior engineering is all designed around squeezing as many things as possible into as tiny of a space as possible. And half of the system size is dedicated to fans, heat sinks, and the apparatuses to keep them all connected and snuggly fit. Getting to the mobo on a launch PS3 entails removing the case, removing the BD drive, removing the internal fans, removing the SD adapters, and all the junk that keeps those things attached. It's messy and complicated, but that's the price of a device that doesn't light your house on fire (thanks, Microsoft) and still gives you the pretty shinys. And every access port and flap you design into such a thing, increases the complexity and potentially adds volume, heft, and additional points of failure to the machines. Making anything on the mobo easily accessible on a launch PS3 would have required a radical redesign of the machine, and I can guarantee you that the way engineers think, they're not anticipating these kinds of issues a decade plus down the line when they're just trying to get the thing to remain stable/durable enough to outlive the default warranties.

 

[Phantoon]

How likely is it for the CMOS to die before any other given bit if its innards? I'm pretty sure these consoles already have a (comparatively) short shelf life relative to older machines. I'm technically on my 4th PS3.

It's a fair point, the original PS3 was a slipshod rickety piece of crap. I went through three of them and eventually gave up and got a slim. But it's philosophically different - if anything else goes on that board it can (in theory at least) be replaced without needing a check-in afterwards. The battery, however? The one bit that is known to have a limited lifespan before it's even fitted?

Also, I should point out here that I'm an engineer. And serviceability should be considered. And even if it wasn't and the battery had to be stuck in the most remote part possible, then the DRM issue should've been given a better solution.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Also, I should point out here that I'm an engineer. And serviceability should be considered.

Serviceability is definitely considered, but there's a difference between certified technicians doing official repairs for Sony who could probably strip a PS3 down in seconds with ease, versus Joe Schmoe in their basement poking around in the dark. Nintendo devices are notoriously hard to self-service on account of them historically using anti-tamper screws. If you're mad about not being able to access a CMOS battery with ease despite it probably not being an issue for over a decade, how about all these industry-standard that antagonistically aim to keep consumers out of their own devices for any and all reasons?

 

[Sprite]

If you're mad about not being able to access a CMOS battery with ease despite it probably not being an issue for over a decade, how about all these industry-standard that antagonistically aim to keep consumers out of their own devices for any and all reasons?

You can be mad at both.

 

[ShakeWell]

As usual, the pirates will save us all.

Ain't that the truth.

Also, like... it's one thing when the CD-i or the Neo-Geo have issues like this (I think they simply didn't think it would matter, that no one would care after they were dead), or even when Capcom arcade boards do (piracy was rampant in the '90s, particularly of expensive arcade boards, the suicide battery was... dumb and bad, but I at least get where they were coming from). But by 2021, this should not be a problem anymore, and it's so damn frustrating that it is.

 

[Seven]

It's disappointing seeing Sony pretty much toss out their handheld legacy without a care in the world. I dropped out of the Playstation ecosystem after Sony relegated the Vita to legacy hardware status and when the expensive 64 GB memory card I imported started corrupting after barely a year of use, but I still have fond memories of playing on the Playstation handhelds. I should look into getting an SD2VITA and downloading all my digital purchases since I spent some good money on this platform.

Also that CMOS battery problem is crazy and likely would not have seen the light of day if not for this unrelated rumor.

 

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

Turns out you can just lie to consumers and they’ll buy your stuff anyway.

I mean, I’d say this would prevent me from getting a PS5, but I know I’ll break once a Final Fantasy hits.

Case in point: Sony covered up losing peoples' information in a security breach, and people still helped them win over Xbox that generation.

As usual, the pirates will save us all.

Incidentally, I'm surprised that they haven't-- as far as I've heard-- found ways to preserve digital-only games on disc.

Like, burn Contra ReBirth to a disc, slot it into the Wii, and run it. Surely there's a way to make the system recognize it.

 

[Kazin]

Incidentally, I'm surprised that they haven't-- as far as I've heard-- found ways to preserve digital-only games on disc.

Like, burn Contra ReBirth to a disc, slot it into the Wii, and run it. Surely there's a way to make the system recognize it.

What would be the point of that, though? The laser on those drives will eventually burn out, so you'll want to have it digitally anyway, which I think they have preserved, as far as I'm aware...

 

[John]

What would be the point of that, though? The laser on those drives will eventually burn out, so you'll want to have it digitally anyway, which I think they have preserved, as far as I'm aware...

That's the old modchip model, which has gone out of favor with the new ODE's and soft mods. You can still find chips for PSX/PS2, but CD/DVD burners and media aren't as good as they used to be, so they wear out the lasers even quicker. It's just more convenient to throw disc images onto hard drives/SD cards.

The console makers know that supporting older games doesn't make them money, when the alternative is to cherry-pick the top and re-sell with minor/major changes. I see the long-term future for all games just being emulation, either software or at the FPGA level, once tech grows to support it. The current MiSTer platform's got 16-bit and below covered, though 32/64-bit is a challenge, and PS2/Xbox/GC won't happen. Software emulation's pretty good for PS3, but a long way off for any FPGA simulation.

 

[Kazin]

I could've sworn I have the Castlevania Rebirth game on my softmodded Wii, where I run stuff off a SD card... Maybe I'm forgetting, I haven't had it hooked up in a while.

 

[madhair60]

All three Rebirth games are installable on a hacked Wii quite easily

 

[fanboymaster]

Last I checked everything ever on the Wii Shop was preserved save possibly a few regional variants of extraordinarily obscure titles. I wish they were still downloadable officially but it's something.

This whole thing just makes me sad that so much of Sony's pre-PS4 history has been relegated to "you can play it on PSNow... maybe" would you like to play the first 5 mainline Ratchet and Clank games? Too bad they aren't on there. None of the Jak games either. No PS1 games to speak of. The Jak games are available as PS2 on PS4 titles along with an utterly bizarre array of titles, now you can play Ace Combat 5, very definitely the only one of those available on PS2. It's just straight up depressing. The PS1 and PS2 have some of the most creative, diverse and unique libraries of any systems ever released and there's barely even lipservice to this fact.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Case in point: Sony covered up losing peoples' information in a security breach, and people still helped them win over Xbox that generation.

On the other hand, Microsoft was literally burning people's houses down, never admitted to any fault or culpability of any kind, and people still helped them win over the PS3 the very next generation.

 

[Phantoon]

I got a special power supply for my XBox so there must have been some sort of recall

 

[Kairu]

Last I checked everything ever on the Wii Shop was preserved save possibly a few regional variants of extraordinarily obscure titles. I wish they were still downloadable officially but it's something.

As of right now, they still are? The Wii Shop channel still lives on in a zombified state. Nintendo at first gave notice that they would stop allowing you to add funds, then about a year later they stopped allowing you to purchase software, but they haven't taken the final step of actually shutting off the shop (at least not world wide). You can currently redownload any purchased software... for now. The relevant bit from the article: "However, for the time being you may continue to re-download content you have purchased or transfer that content from a Wii system to a Wii U system. Be aware that these features will eventually end at a future date."

I'm actually kind of surprised anything on the Wii Shop hasn't been preserved, as the files are still there on the servers for downloading and the DRM of the Wii was defeated years ago...

Oh your mention of the regional things does bring something to mind. For some regions Nintendo partnered with another company to run that region's shop (This is separate from the whole GameSpy shutdown that affected online multiplayer for Wii and DS... and a bunch of older PC games) and when those agreements expired Nintendo opted not to renew them, so those shops are *dead dead* as it were. So yeah, at this point no one would be able to redownload any version of a game that might have been exclusive to that region.

 

[fanboymaster]

Bear in mind I last checked in right as people were scrambling before the purchase cut-off date, it may have been fixed at some stage. I'm surprised that they haven't taken away redownloads but at least it's a good surprise.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

I got a special power supply for my XBox so there must have been some sort of recall

You didn't actually get a special 'power supply', that was actually an extremely shitty con-job and most people bought it without question.

The original Xbox used notoriously cheap, off-the-shelf internal power supplies. The fundamental problem was that the plug you connected the power cables to, was only attached to the console by the solder points of the plug's power connection to the board itself. Over the natural course of the console's life, any moderate amount of plugging and unplugging of the power cable put direct stress on those solder points and caused them to eventually break and short out, leading to sparks and fire.

Microsoft never acknowledged the REAL cause here, never offered to recall and fix the power supplies themselves, and instead blamed the power cords which weren't faulty in any way. And they did this only to dupe the public so they could save money, since sending out replacement cords cost them a whole lot less than doing physical internal repairs on the xboxes. The replacement cords didn't actually do anything to directly address the design flaw of the power supplies. What they did was have those little circuit breakers you see attached to the plug of hair dryers that will pop and shut the machine down if it senses a short/dangerous power fluxuations. It was a bandaid, masqueraded as a solution. It kept your house from burning down, but didn't actually fix the inherent problem if your power supply got damaged through normal wear and tear. But the world moved on because it came to a head at the end of the console's cycle, internet organizing and advocacy wasn't even out of the cradle yet because modern social media didn't even exist yet, brand loyalty, and people were just super horny for HD gaming.

Meanwhile, Microsoft pretty ruthlessly shutdown lawsuits stemming from this and to this day never acknowledged their culpability. I remember one semi-high profile case they got the judge to dismiss because the dumbass lawyer representing the victims mistook the original Xbox for the Xbox 360 in the terminology of their lawsuit and got the case dismissed on a technicality despite, you know, Microsoft burning their house down and the fire being easily traced back to the xbox via the fire department's forensics.

Ever wondered why all the MS consoles from the 360 and beyond all use gigantic external power supplies, while Sony mostly keeps them internal? That's because of this event, and because generally Sony has much more competent engineers and quality testing than Microsoft does.

So pardon me, I always get a little incredulous about these kinds of things. All these companies are ruthless and money hungry, but at least Sony and Nintendo and Sega never almost burned my house down and then tried to gaslight me about it.

 

[Phantoon]

Great, guess I have more soldering to do. It's still a pretty moot point though, this thread is about Sony. I'll be happy to join you in a rant in the "Microsoft happily burns your house down thread"

 

[Kazin]

they got the judge to dismiss because the dumbass lawyer representing the victims mistook the original Xbox for the Xbox 360 in the terminology of their lawsuit and got the case dismissed on a technicality

Oh, so that's why their consoles since the 360 have been nonsensically named, so they can trip up future lawyers because no one* can remember what the hell their systems are called


*me

 

[ShakeWell]

This whole thing just makes me sad that so much of Sony's pre-PS4 history has been relegated to "you can play it on PSNow... maybe" would you like to play the first 5 mainline Ratchet and Clank games? Too bad they aren't on there. None of the Jak games either. No PS1 games to speak of. The Jak games are available as PS2 on PS4 titles along with an utterly bizarre array of titles, now you can play Ace Combat 5, very definitely the only one of those available on PS2. It's just straight up depressing. The PS1 and PS2 have some of the most creative, diverse and unique libraries of any systems ever released and there's barely even lipservice to this fact.

This is why I sprung for the XStation ODE for my PS1. Would I like to have the option to get them *officially* and maybe pass some bucks to whoever made them? Yes. But without that option, do I feel bad about putting 800 disc images on an SD card and slotting that in where the CD assembly in my PS1 used to be? Not at all.

As of right now, they still are? The Wii Shop channel still lives on in a zombified state. Nintendo at first gave notice that they would stop allowing you to add funds, then about a year later they stopped allowing you to purchase software, but they haven't taken the final step of actually shutting off the shop (at least not world wide). You can currently redownload any purchased software... for now. The relevant bit from the article: "However, for the time being you may continue to re-download content you have purchased or transfer that content from a Wii system to a Wii U system. Be aware that these features will eventually end at a future date."

I'm actually kind of surprised anything on the Wii Shop hasn't been preserved, as the files are still there on the servers for downloading and the DRM of the Wii was defeated years ago...

Oh your mention of the regional things does bring something to mind. For some regions Nintendo partnered with another company to run that region's shop (This is separate from the whole GameSpy shutdown that affected online multiplayer for Wii and DS... and a bunch of older PC games) and when those agreements expired Nintendo opted not to renew them, so those shops are *dead dead* as it were. So yeah, at this point no one would be able to redownload any version of a game that might have been exclusive to that region.

I think he meant the pirates have preserved them, not that they're preserved even in a legacy fashion on Nintendo's servers.

 

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

What would be the point of that, though? The laser on those drives will eventually burn out, so you'll want to have it digitally anyway, which I think they have preserved, as far as I'm aware...

I'd love to be able to get/play some of these games without me having to hack/mod my console, which is just asking for trouble.

On the other hand, Microsoft was literally burning people's houses down, never admitted to any fault or culpability of any kind, and people still helped them win over the PS3 the very next generation.

When did Microsoft ever win a generation?

Ever wondered why all the MS consoles from the 360 and beyond all use gigantic external power supplies, while Sony mostly keeps them internal?

Series X is internal. I thought the One X was, too, but I'm not certain.

 

[Kazin]

I'd love to be able to get/play some of these games without me having to hack/mod my console, which is just asking for trouble.

Ah, I see. Well, if you ever do want to go down the hacking road, the Wii is extremely easy, and basically just involves putting some files on an SD card and going to some websites on the Wii browser and such. No modding of the hardware required.

 

[Voncaster]

I don't know anything about system architecture. But would it be possible for Sony to release a firmware update for old systems that prevents the system from being unusable when the CMOS battery dies? For example if Sony is done supporting the PS3 could a firmware update negate the CMOS battery issue?

Also has anyone had a CMOS battery die on them? What is the standard life of a CMOS battery on PS3 and PS4?

My PS3 slim is 10 years old and still works. At some point my PS3 will fail. I suspect the optical drive (which I use to play 75% of my games) will fail long before the CMOS battery does.

I have an old Mac Mini that is beyond its service window; it is my primary computer. If something goes wrong with it; Apple will not fix it. They will tell me to buy a new computer. I have no expectation that this computer will last forever and that it will be serviced forever. Isn't a console failing similar?

 

[Kirin]

*Apple* won't fix your super-old Mac, but if you found the right parts and repaired it yourself, it wouldn't have to call in to old possibly-decommissioned Apple servers before booting up and running old Mac software just fine. That's the issue people are complaining about - that with the current firmware/CMOS issue, even fixing the hardware of an old PS3 won't let it play games because it won't be able to re-authenticate itself with Sony.

 

[Voncaster]

Thanks for the clarity Kirin.

This problem is unique to Sony? Nintendo and Microsoft have implemented systems without this issue?

 

[Kairu]

Thanks for the clarity Kirin.

This problem is unique to Sony? Nintendo and Microsoft have implemented systems without this issue?

No, it's not unique, but neither have been in the news for rumored shutdown of their associated stores.

There was a bit of a panic when Nintendo announced they would be disabling purchases on the Wii eShop, but so far they've allowed redownloads still, it also doesn't perform any sort of checks when running discs or downloaded software. I believe the Wii U is the same, once you've downloaded software you are good to go and no check for discs.

The Switch is a bit of a different beast as it finally moved to having a full fledged account system, rather then tying downloads to a piece of hardware. This does have a bunch of benefits, such as not needing to contact Nintendo if you need to redownload software but don't have the original system on hand or it's not functional. You can also share games between primary and secondary systems, though because of this account system it does require periodic check-ins when starting software.

I don't know as much about the various XBoxes, but I believe you can't even complete setup of the Series S/X without an internet connection so you can authorize against Microsoft servers, and you can't even run software until you complete setup.

I think these check-ins and authentication mechanisms are due in part to the XBox Gold and PS Plus services where you have access to games for "free" as part of the service, but only as long as your subscribed. So they both perform periodic checks to make sure you are OK to still use the associated software. I seem to recall there's a bit of grace period of something like a few days or maybe even weeks between required check-ins.

 

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

Ah, I see. Well, if you ever do want to go down the hacking road, the Wii is extremely easy, and basically just involves putting some files on an SD card and going to some websites on the Wii browser and such. No modding of the hardware required.

Hm, maybe... are there risks involved?

In any case, I think it would be good for other systems with digital platforms and people who don't want to go all-in on modding and such. SEGA had OutRun Online Arcade and AfterBurner Climax on 360 and PS3, but both were eventually pulled.

 

[Sarge]

There's always a small risk, but I've modded four Wiis through various methods and never had an issue. Especially if you're just installing Homebrew Channel and not going for USB Loader GX and the like. HBC alone is very, very safe.