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No One Can Stop Mr. Talking Time's Top 50 32 & 64-Bit Video Games!

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
I'm curious if you get a decent challenge, if you just fight every monster, like you do in most other JRPGs.
I can tell you the game gets significantly harder if you end up getting your characters to max level while farming weapon parts, giving the enemies a significant bump to *their* max level. Which is what I did when first playing the game and not really using the junction system to its fullest, with the result that I barely scraped through the end-game by the skin of my teeth. I think I had one party member alive when Ultimecia went down.
 

Lokii

(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
I don't really know how to convey how much Suikoden II means to me as a JRPG other than to echo yall sentiment that it's pretty much perfect. It's a game that understands its form (the JRPG) and executes it with precision, finesse, and love.

I love how the game has a "default state" for all the character sprites. Similar to how Dragon Quest NPCs always march in place, all characters in Suikoden stand in the same neutral state: very stiff back and with arms straight to the side. It's just understood that this is a convention of being a video game. We're used to it. Suikoden 1's characters rarely break from it. Suikdeon II takes this convention and leaves it as the standard, but consistently breaks away from it with elaborate and gorgeous pixel animations. The game then uses these animations to emphasize the drama as characters step out of their stiff NPC posture into moments exciting, funny, or poignant. The characters too come alive with these animations and we get to know them through they way they behave. From Naomi's spunky cheerfulness to Jowy's determination to Luca Blight's cruelty, and especially to the main character's kindheartedness, we get to intimately know these characters because of their acting. And this is done with a very advanced 2D sprite style that rivals, even exceeds, the style of polygon acting being done by the game's cutting edge contemporaries. Final Fantasy VIII and Suikoden II came out within months of each other and VIII's animation and gestures, while a refinement of VII's and advanced in their own way, are still a caned, limited set applied to fit any given storytelling scene. In contrast Sukidoen II's sprite style lets each scene have its own special and unique animations that fit the action at hand. It makes for an extremely pleasurable and compelling experience as the player is treated to a string of unique and masterfully crafted pops of storytelling flair.

I think the game is so skillful and moving with the use of this technique (among all the other stuff the game does) that I have no hesitation, and only a slight amount of embarrassment, in calling it high art and a luminary of the form. And yet, somehow, there are no Suikoden puzzles in Konami Picross. Shocking, I know.
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
I didn't finish my list and get it sent in, so I can't say for certain that Suikoden II would have topped my list, but it would not have been lower than 3. As others have said, it is just a perfect game. I don't know that I have more to add that hasn't already been said. Has anyone mentioned the music yet? Because the music.

I like FF8 a lot too, but I likely wouldn't have placed it on my list. If it was on my list, then my list was 3/4 JRPGs. But it is still really good and is a pretty formative game for me.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
Suikoden II is not one I've played, but if it's really only 30 hours that just made it quite intriguing. Maybe I'll hook up the PS3 and download it before it's gone forever.

Also I have absolutely no certainty about the top few games since I was essentially a bystander to this era. I assume Smash Bros, Final Fantasy Tactics and Goldeneye are in there somewhere. I had Everquest and Myst on my list but it does seem very console heavy and I'd be surprised if they placed this high. It was hard to track timings since I didn't own a 32/64 bit console until way later, ha!
 
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I can tell you the game gets significantly harder if you end up getting your characters to max level while farming weapon parts, giving the enemies a significant bump to *their* max level.
While it has been a LONG time, so I can't speak with full authority, I remember this being strictly, mostly untrue. If you look at the monster stat growth charts for most baddies in the game, including the final boss, their stat growths mostly trail off after a certain level. Early monsters will still increase levels, but their stats plateau at the early levels. The final boss stops seeing rapid stat growth at around level 60-70 IIRC. If you overlevel, you'll still be able to easily spank stuff. It's less about the equipment you get and more about how you're junctioning. If you apply the right spells to the right stats, you can basically "break" the game regardless of what level your characters are at or what they're equipped with. Plus, if you farm Aura magics, you can use it to basically abuse the Limit Break system and plow through most of the worst enemies in the game with ease. (Squall's final limit break is stupid strong.) And if you've been getting all of the best Triple Triad cards in the game, then you can transmute them into rare spells that do game breaking stuff for the final bosses like, oh say, complete invincibility. There's a LOT of customizability in FF8, and the game is more than happy to let you tinker with the systems until you're a demigod trampling everything in your path. You just have to experiment and be ready to grind a lil. I never did these level 1 runs that people talk about, and never had a hard time with the game. The only problem with FF8's leveling is that it's easy for Squall to get ahead of your other characters in levels, and you don't want that to happen *too much* because the enemy monsters levels are pegged to the highest level. So if Squall is level 80, but Quistis is still level 30 in the final dungeon, you're gonna have a hard time. Other than that, it's probably one of the easiest mainline Final Fantasy games I've played.

Has anyone mentioned the music yet? Because the music.
I hadn't, and I usually don't discuss S2's music because I actually find it not as interesting or as good as its immediate predecessor's or its sequel's. But that's a harsh comparison when the music is still objectively really really good. It's just kind of uneven at some places. (Oh lord the minigames music.) It's still got so many great standout pieces though, and it really makes excellent uses of its soundtrack to accent poignant moments in the best ways. And when it recalls and adapts S1's OST is often very special as well, which greatly helps lend the sense of continuity and connection between the games. Some of my favorite tracks:

Reminiscence
Homesickness
Beautiful Morning
Ah Beautiful Dancer
Her Sigh
Carried on Rippling Waves
Two Rivers
Orrizonte
La Mia Tristezza - it's absolutely crazy these two songs are hidden away behind optional side content
Imprisoned Town
Gothic Neclord
Withered Earth
The Chase
Secret Village of the Ninja

Oh, by the by, Final Fantasy VIII's OST is also Nobuo Uematsu's greatest work. Great music in these two games.

Suikoden II is not one I've played, but if it's really only 30 hours that just made it quite intriguing.
30 hours seems like a really low estimate to me. You can absolutely beat this game in only 30 hours if you wanted to. (If you know what you're doing, you can easily beat it in 10.) But the average gamer taking their time, thoroughly exploring things, and making a good faith effort to recruit all 108 Stars of Destiny, your playtime is more realistically in the 50-60 hour range.

It really doesn't feel like that though. You'll never feel like you've had to grind areas just to make progress because of how Suikoden's leveling system works. And if you ever get frustrated at not having enough money in the game, there are very easy to exploit money glitches. The story moves along at a brisk pace and never feels like it lags. I only wish Suikoden II was even longer because I wanted to spend as much time as possible exploring this setting and hanging out with its cast.
 

Violentvixen

(She/Her)
30 hours seems like a really low estimate to me. You can absolutely beat this game in only 30 hours if you wanted to. (If you know what you're doing, you can easily beat it in 10.) But the average gamer taking their time, thoroughly exploring things, and making a good faith effort to recruit all 108 Stars of Destiny, your playtime is more realistically in the 50-60 hour range.

It really doesn't feel like that though. You'll never feel like you've had to grind areas just to make progress because of how Suikoden's leveling system works. And if you ever get frustrated at not having enough money in the game, there are very easy to exploit money glitches. The story moves along at a brisk pace and never feels like it lags. I only wish Suikoden II was even longer because I wanted to spend as much time as possible exploring this setting and hanging out with its cast.
This is helpful, thanks! It's still not a 80-100 hour JRPG, which would make it way too hard to add to my backlog right now.
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
It is theoretically possible to beat Suikoden II in under 20 hours. I've beaten the game no less than 5 times and I've never managed it in less than 50. It is just a game world I like to exist in and it is so easy to spend more time than you expect in it.
 

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
30 hours feels like a good estimate for Suikoden 2. howlongtobeat has an aggregate median of 42 hours for all playstyles, for example. I don't think any of my playthroughs ever broke the 50 hour mark.
 

Beta Metroid

At peace
(he/him)
At the risk of looking like an overconfident fool on an Internet forum, I declare without hesitation that the winner will be
SOTN. TT loves Castlevania, it loves Metroid, and it loves pretty sprites.

My thoughts on other contenders:

OoT: It really doesn't help OoT that its little brother and everyone's favorite dark horse is also eligible for this contest. I think OoT will narrowly beat Majora, but enough of Talking Time will (rightfully) name the latter their favorite 64 Zelda to cost OoT the overall crown.

FFVII: TT is one of the first communities I visited that gave voice to the "FFVII is overrated" view. There are too many other jRPGs in this era that TT loves.

SM64: Platformers are my jam, the 64 was my console in this era, and I don't think this game is number 1. Extremely important game, and still a great one, but I think its rough edges keep it from the top spot.

MGS: If I'm wrong, this would be the pick that least surprises me. I just don't know if enough of the voters have played it.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
I think I clocked in at around 35 hours for S2 myself. Of course, I used a guide to make sure I didn't miss certain recruits, because that absolutely can happen.

@Beta Metroid : I will confirm that particular game was my #1 choice. Probably several others as well.
 

Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
Plus, if you farm Aura magics, you can use it to basically abuse the Limit Break system and plow through most of the worst enemies in the game with ease. (Squall's final limit break is stupid strong.)
That was my strategy - on demand Renzokuken Lion Heart just chews through boss HP (especially if you junction up Squall's Strength). But to be honest I think that (and maybe Rinoa's limit break) is really the best use case for that technique.

The only problem with FF8's leveling is that it's easy for Squall to get ahead of your other characters in levels, and you don't want that to happen *too much* because the enemy monsters levels are pegged to the highest level.
So obviously the solution is that you should leave Squall dead as much as possible.
 

Lokii

(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
I like that FF8 can be broken in fun ways, weird ways, powerful ways, etc. This is a strength imo
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
At the risk of looking like an overconfident fool on an Internet forum, I declare without hesitation that the winner will be
SOTN. TT loves Castlevania, it loves Metroid, and it loves pretty sprites.

Yeah, that's pretty firmly been my prediction.
 
It's been this way for so long that I should probably reassess at some point, but, Suikoden II is my favorite video game.

I agree with a lot of what's already been said about it, so I'll just point out one specific thing I really like. I don't know if I could name any other RPG where you kill the main villain in the middle of the game. Plenty of games (many Dragon Quests, for instance) will have you kill the bad guy you've been chasing for half the game, only to reveal a bigger bad guy you've never heard of who's really in charge. But Luca Blight is THE villain, and you kill him, and it's very satisfying but it doesn't end the war.
 
It is theoretically possible to beat Suikoden II in under 20 hours.
It's not theoretical, I've done it! In order to see the Clive side quest to its fullest conclusion, you have to basically beat the game in 12 hrs. This isn't really hard at all, you just:

1) Have to intimately know where to go and what to do through the entire game.
2) Skip all cutscenes and dialog.
3) Do a minimal amount of leveling and gear equipping. (Not hard, especially if you do the Muse door exploit to power level.)
4) Skip all side quests and non-mandatory characters.

Of course, there's no real reason to do this other than bragging rights, especially when you can watch the entire sidequest in a 10min youtube video.
I don't know if I could name any other RPG where you kill the main villain in the middle of the game. Plenty of games (many Dragon Quests, for instance) will have you kill the bad guy you've been chasing for half the game, only to reveal a bigger bad guy you've never heard of who's really in charge. But Luca Blight is THE villain, and you kill him, and it's very satisfying but it doesn't end the war.
This is the perfect opportunity to go on a side tangent about how IMO Luca Blight is not actually the main villain. He's a symptom of the esoteric nature of the world's primal forces having a proxy war against each other using people to fight, powered up by the True Runes. Kinda like that dumb tree in FFV/IX, but way more thought out and interesting. That's why the final bosses are the Beast Rune made incarnate, and then the duel with Jowy. Jowy doesn't want to fight, but he's compelled to do so by both the Black Sword Rune and the Beast Rune. And that's actually way more interesting to me, especially when this game is just one chapter in a long drawn out saga of the forces of chaos versus the forces of order, that comes to a head in Suikoden III.
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
It's not theoretical, I've done it! In order to see the Clive side quest to its fullest conclusion, you have to basically beat the game in 12 hrs.

I don't know, I've tried it three or four times and always end up realizing the time says 40 hours as I'm cooking pudding for dogs
 

Issun

Chumpy
(He/Him)
#14
okiWyW9.jpg

Your stupid friends aren't much help, they stand there while I make you yelp!

Developer: Rare
Publisher: Nintendo
Platform: Nintendo 64
Release Dates: June 29, 1998 (NA), July 17,1998 (EU)
215 Points, 8 Votes, Highest Vote: #2 (Beta Metroid)

wxJeeoI.jpg


Depending on where you stand, Banjo-Kazooie added new dimensions to the burgeoning 3D Platformer genre, or it was the beginning of the end. It was easily one of Rare's most creative endeavors, and was a huge reason why their name appeared in so many N64 owners' libraries. No one will dispute that its core gameplay and Saturday morning aesthetic are appealing. Where opinion is split is where you land on mandatory collection.

This game was the first to emphasize collecting x number if items to progress, and it's become a staple of the platformer genre since, especially in their 3D incarnations. If you love exploring every nook and cranny for every single secret in huge, open levels, then this was your jam. If you just want to run, jump, and progress, with secrets being optional, then this was a step in the wrong direction. Regardless, Banjo-Kazooie is an important step in 3D gaming. It took what Mario 64 built and expanded on it, with tight design and fun visuals. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but then what game is?

The genesis of B-K is pretty interesting, too:

Wikipedia said: The origins of Banjo-Kazooie can be traced back to Project Dream, a cancelled video game developed by Rare's Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest team for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. Inspired by Japanese role-playing games and LucasArts adventure games, Dream was developed for 16 months and starred a boy who got into trouble with a group of pirates. The game used Rare's Advanced Computer Modeling (ACM) graphics technology, first used in Donkey Kong Country, to an advanced level.[12] As development progressed, the character was replaced by a rabbit and later a bear, who eventually became Banjo. Because the introduction of the Nintendo 64 made the ACM technology obsolete, Rare decided to transition the development of the game to that console. The project proved to be too ambitious for the developers, who felt the game was not fun. After early versions of Rare's Conker's Bad Fur Day proved satisfactory, the company decided to retool Dream into a Donkey Kong-esque platformer. However, when Rare realized that Super Mario 64 was going to set the standard for 3D games, making their project look outdated, the company ultimately scrapped all work on Dream to produce a new game featuring Banjo.

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Issun

Chumpy
(He/Him)
#13
YSS41my.jpg

That long, long memory of a dream... That perhaps was the memory of my soul.

Developer: Square Product Development Division 3
Publisher: Squaresoft
Platform: Sony Playstation
Release Dates: February 11, 1998 (JP), October 20, 1998 (NA)
220 Points, 8 Votes, Highest Vote: #1 (Issun)

eEmWwR6.jpg


There is a kind of beauty in Xenogears's ambitious imperfection. It reached for the stars, and didn't quite get there. But while it didn't succeed, it did not fail, either. Sure, there was no way it was going to accomplish every last thing the developers set out to do, even if they hadn't run out of time and money at the end. Telling a slowly unfolding story of a multigenerational, cosmic battle for human existence and at the same time asking what life is, what love is, what God is. It's a bit much for anyone to tackle, but Tetsuya Takahashi and Kaori Tanaka sure gave it the old college try, and still managed to create something wonderful. A sweeping epic that rivals the Shin Megami Tensei series for how many religious references it can cram into one game. A story about how much harder it can be to battle your inner demons than to take on the entire cosmos. Sure the story stumbled plenty, the dialogue was serviceable at best, and the second disc is famously truncated. But I am okay with all that. Dialogue and localization in games were still finding their footing at this point, when Xenogears's story was on, it was on, and to me, there's something poetic about the people in chairs moments of disc two. I still find Xenogears beautiful, both at its highest highs and its lowest lows. The way it goes for broke on capital-P Philosophy, the way it deals with the ethical dilemmas its characters face, and of course that fantastic Yasunori Mitsuda score. There's a reason that those of us who love Xenogears are so unabashed about it, and while it may not be the hot intellectual shit I thought it was at age 20, it's still a very important game to me, and it's a pity we may never see anything quite like it again.


WisteriaHysteria said: Brilliant, compelling, enthralling, and only limited by its own ambition. Probably the first game that caused me to not fall asleep the night I finished playing it, and compelled an immediately 2nd playthrough.

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WildcatJF

Let's Pock (Art @szk_tencho)
(he / his / him)
BK was 16th on my list. On the N64 at least, it's my second favorite platformer (behind SM64) and would probably be in my top 10 of the genre to this day. This didn't cross the line into collecting too much for me, but my goodness, all the Rare platformers that followed sure did lol.
 

Beta Metroid

At peace
(he/him)
Where I think Banjo-Kazooie doesn't get enough credit is how incredibly charming its presentation is, and how well it plays to the hardware's strengths. Its worlds are each incredibly on-theme, with every surface and texture feeling like it's part of this natural environment (and there is an incredible range of surfaces and textures). There's a wide variety of sounds for walking over/through different environments, Banjo makes an audible gasp when you come up for air, the music seamlessly transitions between different variants for different parts of a world...it's just a beauty. Also, Kazooie is a totally overlooked female protagonist, and is often misremembered as a sidekick, when the game consistently calls the duo partners, gives them equal billing, and she's the one eager to embrace adventure (and also completely unnecessary conflict, but that's part of what makes her personality so memorable).

Oh, and since this is probably my best chance to mention it, Tooie was my number 1, actually paring down the amount of mandatory stuff to collect and adding a bunch of quality-of-life features for navigating its much bigger, more ambitious environment. Plus it does really cool things like carry over every ability from the first game and use interconnected worlds very cleverly, both to create the illusion that they're all part of one cohesive location and as the basis for puzzles (I felt like Mario Odyssey was going to finally revisit this concept, but it turned out all of their connections were the same boring "find a painting") It's like Banjo-Kazooie in Metroidvania form. Plus, the speed and mobility of solo Kazooie is just a joy to play. Tooie being Great, Actually is a (mole)hill I'm willing to die on (and I'd really recommend the XBLA/Rare Replay version for that sweet, sweet, consistent frame rate and high resolution).
 

conchobhar

What's Shenmue?
I didn't end up participating in this list, but if I had, Final Fantasy VIII would have ranked very near the top. I played it for the first time only a couple years back, and I was utterly enraptured. I am not what you would call a "systems guy" when it comes to JRPGs— I prefer things to be fairly simple and straightforward, and have a tendency to simply ignore mechanics that don't suit my fancy, even if they're central and important to the game— but somehow, VIII got its hooks in me. Like, I spent the early stages of the game not quite sure how to make sense of it, but I kept at it, slowly working it out as I went on; by the end of the game, I had completely internalized the mechanics and had gone about completely breaking the game, with a party in the low twenties but sitting pretty with maximum stats. I cannot stress enough how completely unlike me this style of play is— that VIII got this out of me is hard for me to believe.

But what really makes it enduring to me is the writing. VIII is a really intimate game— not only because the whole game keeps the player in Squall's head, but because so much of the story has the party members working through their feelings and neuroses and growing closer as a result. That's not an uncommon set-up, but I feel that VIII is uncommonly committed to it, for how its cast comes across as people with actual inner lives rather than just complicated backstories. It's very natural, and human.

Final Fantasy VIII is one of my favourite games in the series and probably the genre, too.
 

Kirin

Summon for hire
(he/him)
Had Xenogears near the middle of my list, it's just such a big beautiful mess of a game. I actually never finished it, but it wasn't because of the plot falling apart or resorting to chair-dialog, it was because I wasn't quite wrapping my head around the overdrive and fuel mechanics in later Gear segments and got frustrated with some set piece not working for me - I don't even remember exactly which at this point. But whatever, there's so much fun stuff in there anyway - as Issun said, it's just a huge pile of ambitions that weren't quite reached, but left a heck of a lot of interesting detritus in their wake.
 
Somewhere there's an alternate universe where Xenogears was released as Final Fantasy VII as intended, and I'm not sure if that's a better universe or worse one than ours.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
I probably could have voted for Xenogears, but didn't. It was just outside my list, so I enjoy it, despite it being pretty uneven overall.

As for Banjo-Kazooie, I have to admit I've barely put any time into it, and I wouldn't have put it ahead of Super Mario 64, which... also didn't make my list, although like Xenogears, was just outside of it. I will likely play through it some day, though.
 

Johnny Unusual

(He/Him)
Banjo was pretty high on my list. I remember it being a very fun and inventive and while another game sure to show up was overall better, it felt like the next step beyond that in terms of fun playability. I felt in very safe hands with this one. I did vote for the... other game that we've been tacitly told didn't make it (certainly lower on my list but not as much as you might expect).

I can't stand by it in terms of eye-rolling edgy comedy content but I was very similar in a lot of its positive technical points like fun game play and in ambition. Being honest, I was right for putting it on *my* list but I am kind of glad it didn't make it so I wouldn't have to face how bad its tits and poop comedy looks to me now when I could barely stand by it when it came out. Keeping in mind... I STILL ENJOY GTA GAMES!
 
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