It'sa me, Kaizo Mario!

[lincolnic]

So if anyone was wondering if Akogare 2 is harder than the first game, I'm currently walled on the second level. Yup. There's a section where you have to do a shell drop on a pipe, then throw the shell into the air before running up a triangle, then quickly getting to a muncher bed and dropping the shell onto it so it wakes up and you can bounce on it, but not too quickly or it won't wake up when you jump. I thought I was misreading what you have to do, but nope, this is the way. I'll get through it, though.

I got stuck on that same sequence for a while, stopped for the day once I got through it to the midway. Really enjoying the game so far though, it's already immediately obvious how much care and effort went into it. It's definitely a big difficulty step up from the first one, but easier than Invictus (so far). Spent about an hour getting through the first level and a half. Looking forward to more.

With a bit of luck I'll be able to finish that on stream tonight, which would put me within spitting distance of the end! As to whether I'll dive straight into Ako 2 after that, I'm not sure just quite yet.

Yeah, you're really close to the end now! If you've already done the red switch palace I think you've probably only got maybe 4 or 5 exits away.

 

[SilentSnake]

I'm nine exits into Akogare 2, and playing this and Hark 2 back to back has been very instructive in the differences between hacks. Hark 2 has a very playful design philosophy whether it's trolls or creative setups. Akogare 2, meanwhile, is very technically impressive with what it expects you to do even as everything else about the game is aggressively beige. Akogare 1 was at its best when it turned up the difficulty, which is why it's half a good hack in my eyes. 2 is difficult from the start to its benefit, which plays into how masterfully technical the Akogare games are. Also the addition of custom music has given the game a cozy vibe that not a lot of other hacks have.

Anyway, it's good stuff and I'm happy to dig into more.

 

[lincolnic]

I'm on the third level in Akogare 2, and I'm noticing a pattern: the first half of every level so far has been a slog, and then the second halves have all been relatively fast. The second and third levels especially have each had a trick or sequence (generally right before the checkpoint) that walled me for a while. The second half of the second level took me literally two minutes when I sat down today.

I'm taking a break from finishing the level I'm on now because it took me an hour to get through the first half, and I stopped having fun. I'll come back after I've cooled off and I'm sure the second half will go down in 10 minutes.

 

[SilentSnake]

17 exits down in Akogare 2, and it continues to be fun, beige, and intricate. It's shown some hints of interesting setups, particularly the second half of Obsidian Vale and all of Impact Crater, but for the most part it's been sticking to its strengths of providing levels with interesting, subtle input requirements. The aesthetics and music are definitely a step up from the first game, and it's nice that it's chosen to be good from the start instead of from the halfway point, but yeah. Good hack, want to play more.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Sounds like a solid B+.

 

[lincolnic]

Damn, you're crushing that one. I'm only three exits in!

 

[lincolnic]

Alright, scratch that, I put in another hour and a half and came out with another three exits done. Still enjoying the game a lot. I'm really into the aesthetics, Scott clearly put a lot of attention into his backgrounds and color palettes. Gives me classic SNES vibes for sure. There's a lot of playfulness so far in the way he uses familiar sprites like dolphins or Rip Van Fish, and I'm definitely still excited to see every new level.

Snake, can you elaborate on what you mean by "beige"? That makes me think "boring", but it doesn't sound like you're bored! It is advertised as a mostly vanilla hack, so I'm not expecting any crazy chocolate surprises.

Mike, there's a level with both Rexes and numbered platforms, so you'll like at least 1/29th of the game.

edit: thought there were 27 exits, there are 29.

 

[SilentSnake]

Okay, when I say "beige" I mean "not flashy". Like, it doesn't have the strong thematic levels like Hyperion, the cool and interesting setups of the Bunbuns, or the masterful command of custom mechanics of Sayonara. What it does have is throughlines of movement that just feel good and genuinely rewarding required inputs. What's special about the game is the subtle underpinnings. This is definitely a technician's game.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Mike, there's a level with both Rexes and numbered platforms, so you'll like at least 1/27th of the game.

Damn, Mega Scott has my number!

(the number is 4)

 

[lincolnic]

Okay, when I say "beige" I mean "not flashy". Like, it doesn't have the strong thematic levels like Hyperion, the cool and interesting setups of the Bunbuns, or the masterful command of custom mechanics of Sayonara. What it does have is throughlines of movement that just feel good and genuinely rewarding required inputs. What's special about the game is the subtle underpinnings. This is definitely a technician's game.

Thanks for explaining. I'm not sure I agree! I feel like each of the six levels I've played so far has had a clear theme from the very first jump, and I've seen some cool setups I haven't seen anywhere else before too. As for custom mechanics, again, it's a mostly vanilla hack, so you can only expect so much there. I absolutely agree with you about the movement and technical aspects, it feels good to perform your way through sections.

Not trying to pick a fight! I just find it genuinely interesting that we're seeing this one so differently. You've been through much more of the game than I have so far, so maybe things flatten out a bit as it goes on.

 

[SilentSnake]

Yeah, I mean, the level design is solid, I've just been wowed more in that regard is all. The impressive stuff is under the surface for me.

Meanwhile, I wrote about Super Hark Bros. 2 on my blog!

 

[lincolnic]

That's fair. I like your Hark 2 writeup! I do wonder how much of the lack of indicators was by design, and how much was a "catcher's mitt"-type situation, where Chris made levels that suited him perfectly but didn't really consider that they might not make sense to other players. I mean, he obviously chose not to have indicators, but I can't help but think he imagined things would be more readable than they turned out. That first big jump in Heaven Sent where you have to drop Yoshi in mid-air and grab the fire flower is a great example. For me personally, I hadn't really come across a jump where you need to just drop an item while moving at high speed before (as opposed to kicking it or throwing it upwards), so I had to go watch Barb's playthrough to figure out what the hell I was supposed to do. It's not something you can really communicate via coin indicators, but it also doesn't seem like something that's easy to figure out unless you already know what to do.

That's actually one of the biggest things that made Hark 2 land as Very Good, Not Great for me: there are a lot of instances in that game where you either already know what you're supposed to do or you're forced into a lot of trial-and-error. (Mike, if you're reading this, that's my main issue with the red switch palace.) Some of them are easier than others, like the jump you mentioned where you have to bounce off the Parakoopa to avoid a saw, and it rarely grinds the game to a halt. But the times when it does tended to suck the fun out, for me at least.

Let us know if you write more kaizo articles! I'm probably in the minority here, but I think there's a lot of room for critical discussion of the genre. Streamers move through hacks so quickly that I feel like most of them never really get to unpack anything about any particular individual experience, which is a shame considering watching streams is the #1 way most people experience kaizo.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Ha ha, did you pick the koopa/saw jump as an example after watching me be stuck there for so long?

I can't claim to know why ChrisG didn't put any (or nearly any) indicators in his hack, but it's definitely something he did on purpose. I think it's just like the lack of retry in Riff 2 - for him, figuring out the puzzles is part of the kaizo experience. I imagine it's going to end up as something of a generational marker for different creators. Certainly, some people go completely overboard with the indicators and coin trains, leading to cluttered, ugly levels. But I definitely agree that Hark 2 could have used a bit more hinting, it really doesn't cooperate much with the player. Despite, that I think the level design is strong enough (most of the time) to make it one of my favorite hacks yet. We'll see how I feel about it once I'm through the endgame.

 

[lincolnic]

I loved Hark 2 and I really enjoyed my time with it, but objectively I think its issues are what hold it back from being truly great. Confusing setups are just one part of it, there are also some overly recycled ideas (I think there are at least three levels where you have to go in one direction, get a key, then take the key back to the start of the level) and some stages that just aren't fun. But will I play it again? Absolutely. The good stuff and the sheer craft of it far outweigh those complaints.

 

[lincolnic]

Two hacks in a row with frustrating red switch palaces!

Edit: this one honestly wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't for one specific jump exactly in the middle of the level. You'll know it when you see it. Happy to be finished with that.

 

[lincolnic]

Felt like picking up the controller for one last run of the night and ended up clearing the last level in the second world in a cool 8 minutes. For a brief moment in time, I knew what it was to be good at video games.

 

[SilentSnake]

22 exits down and I'm warming up to Akogare 2 even more. I don't think I've played a bad level yet. I worry that I can't remember a lot of them, though, because I remember every single level in Hark 2, but that may be a symptom of watching so many people play Hark 2. But everything about Ako 2 just feels great to play.

I'm working on the optional special world now, and the stage with the flying Yoshi is SO TIGHT. I hope I don't end up disliking this one.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Grand Poo Bear has been uploading his Hark 2 playthrough, so I watched a little bit of that. If anyone wants to know if he's lost his kaizo chops, he took down Flatline in a hair over 8 minutes - a level that took me around an hour to complete, I think? So yeah, the boy's still got it.

I haven't actually gone back to Hark 2 to finish it yet, though I'm keen to get that done before Saturday. Just to be sure, thee hints that I have so far are:
- It's been a while since you called your brother
- Maybe it's time for a fresh start?
- A picture on SMWcentral of Luigi on the ghost forest level

I'll go from there next time I pick it up, but if there are any additional hints that were added in the updated version of the hack, please let me know!

 

[lincolnic]

- A picture on SMWcentral of Luigi on the ghost forest level

This is not a spoiler: that's not the ghost forest level.

I'm pretty sure you've got all the hints there are. The second one is really the key, I don't know why he didn't have it in there from the beginning.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

It isn't? I thought it was the spot that looked super suspicious in the "no spin jumping" level. Am I supposed to recognize the level? It's been long enough since I started Hark 2 that I don't entirely remember everything...

Apparently Barb's stream title yesterday was "starting work on the overworld soon"??? Sounds like we're getting pretty close to GPW3!

 

[lincolnic]

It does look similar to where the secret exit was in that level, but (amongst other differences) there's a pit next to that in the level and in the screenshot it's flat ground. Also, the timer is much higher than any other level you've seen.

I think we'll see GPW3 probably within another couple of months. Also happening last night: GlitchCat was playtesting Orka's next hack, I'm in Danger, which looked very hard. It did have a really cool Ultrastar stage, though.

 

[SilentSnake]

25 exits in Ako 2. I got through the really hard flying Yoshi level, and now that I've cleared it, I can enthusiastically say that level slaps. I'm in the home stretch!

 

[lincolnic]

Man, the cape section at the end of the third world is brutal. I know what to do but the inputs are so damn finicky that I can't even get anywhere consistently.

Edit: naturally, after complaining, I nailed the section three attempts later.

 

[SilentSnake]

27 exits. The level I'm on is the first one I couldn't read and had to look up how to start it. The inputs Akogare 2 asks you to do get very galaxy brained sometimes, and here it was to its detriment. It's really fun once you get going, but some parts of this game are downright obtuse.

By the way, if anyone's interested in learning cape better at any point, I have an unlisted hack that's supposed to be really good for that. Think Learn 2 Kaizo, but entirely for cape. I'm going to give it a try if I ever decide to take on Let's Give Up.

 

[lincolnic]

Secret cape tutorial hack? Sign me up!

 

[MCBanjoMike]

Cosigned (eventually, when I'm ready for it). Good god, it's 51 exits??

Might try to finish Hark 2 tonight! I'll probably give myself about 30 minutes to work on the puzzle, but if it takes longer than that I may just look up the answer because I kinda want to finish this run. Really need to get back to Invictus while my level of patience is high!

 

[lincolnic]

Good god, it's 51 exits??

Yeah, but it's like how Learn 2 Kaizo has, apparently, 69 exits (nice). They're mostly single tricks. The zip file has a link to clear videos on Youtube and most are done in under 20 seconds.

Still seems strange to me that this isn't widely available, but I'm sure the creator(s?) have their reasons.

 

[MCBanjoMike]

As long as we're talking about non-public hacks, if anyone wants the custom music version of Akogare 1, hit me up. I know lincolnic and I both have Invictus 1.1, which isn't on SMWcentral, so that's another one we can offer.

 

[lincolnic]

That reminds me, did Juz ever explain why Invictus 1.1 never made it to SMWC? It seemed like he was really into the changes.

 

[SilentSnake]

Welp, I 100%'d Akogare 2! Definitely harder than the first game, it really grew on me the more I played. The subtlety of the inputs required feels really good, and the levels flow really well. This also means there's some galaxy brained setups that not even watching a VOD might help you understand, which isn't the best. Still, good hack. Recommended. Might have expanded thoughts later.